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Author Topic: My big bad baptism thread.  (Read 4614 times) Average Rating: 0
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JR
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« Reply #45 on: December 17, 2011, 10:07:17 AM »

Abraham went to Hell, ...then moved to heaven.

Is it not true that, before Christ's resurrection, all people went to hell/Hades/Sheol - that is, the same place, whatever word or translation one gives it - and that the way to heaven was opened only at that first Easter? Then all true believers from beforehand were admitted to heaven/Paradise/the Lord's presence?

You are correct. When Christ descended into Hell, he freed the captives and those who believed in God were welcome into Paradise that day.

That is why the Resurrection Icon of Christ shows Him pulling Adam and Eve from the bonds of Hell:



(Note how Christ is grabbing them firmly by the wrist, as if He's saying "I've got you now, and I'm not going to let you go!")

This is also why the Paschal Troparion (Hymn) that is sung multiple times during Paschaltide is as follows:

Christ is risen from the dead,
Trampling down death by death,
And upon those in the tombs
Bestowing life!



One of my favorite icons!

The detail in this Icon is amazing, I will have to look for this !
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« Reply #46 on: December 17, 2011, 10:38:26 AM »

I hope you understand one thing.

Protestantism is an invention starting in 1500+, 1500 years from Jesus. there is no protestant doctrine before 1500. For example Apostle Luke was painter of icons and Church condemned iconoclasm held true by Protestantism.

What "Protestant Doctrine"?  You've been asked this before and you have not answered. You repeat your simple starting date that you put in other threads but don't give any factual information.  What is your personal knowledge or experience with any sort of Protestant Church or what sources have you read that you think are telling the truth? 

What does St. Luke have to do with this subject and how is that any sort of Protestant "doctrine"? 

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« Reply #47 on: December 17, 2011, 10:43:58 AM »


You posted this link before in another thread along with the one that was supposed to show "hell" but was made of clips from Disney's "Hercules" (1997) which you also posted in this thread.  It's still just a video that someone put together with some texts.  As near as I can tell it has nothing to do with anything EO and neither does a movie very loosely set in Greek mythology. 

These aren't any kind of proof but rather anti-proof to some.

 Undecided
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« Reply #48 on: December 17, 2011, 11:00:55 AM »

There are no history rules for everything else and history rules for Eastern orthodox Church. There is one history and according with this science

What does the "Science of History" mean to you, pasadi97?  What are the rules or practices involved? 

There is history and there is pseudo-history and there is legend and there can be things that are partly based on real historical fact and partly not due to misunderstanding or a preference for a story that supports a person's opinions or pet ideas.

I'm not going to address EO beliefs about St. Luke. That's a matter of hagiography.  But your attempt to claim to use the "science of history" without really doing it is what I do take issue with.  You have your own ideas about "Protestants" but do not define them or give supporting evidence or explanations.  Two YouTube videos are not "proof" of your ideas or claims


Quote
To demonstrate somebody that did not choose baptism for himself and children, to demonstrate that he and his children are not Eastern Orthodox Christians, he should go with children in a pit without light, stay there, in a stinky smell and such and say at the end, I had a great day. Unfortunately this is the future people without baptism prepare for their children. Then I can say, he is not an Eastern Orthodox Christian .

Another bit that has nothing to do or is applicable to real human beings. 

Quote
Everybody behaves like an Eastern Orthodox Christian , looking for good car , good house, good schools good everything. Exceptions are demonized people. This is why I said people are Orthodox Christians in behavior and that they don't choose Eastern orthodox Christianity since they are misguided.

Ummm I was under the impression that some good EO "behavors" were charity, mercy and devotion to the Trinity rather than just an desire for material objects.   Huh

"Demonized people" don't want to have a "good" life? 


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« Reply #49 on: December 17, 2011, 01:05:41 PM »

There are no history rules for everything else and history rules for Eastern orthodox Church. There is one history and according with this science, Apostle Luke has painted icons and Church has fought against errors like iconoclasm.

To demonstrate somebody that did not choose baptism for himself and children, to demonstrate that he and his children are not Eastern Orthodox Christians, he should go with children in a pit without light, stay there, in a stinky smell and such and say at the end, I had a great day. Unfortunately this is the future people without baptism prepare for their children. Then I can say, he is not an Eastern Orthodox Christian . "Sheol ( /ˈʃiːoʊl/ shee-ohl or /ˈʃiːəl/ shee-əl; Hebrew שְׁאוֹל Šʾôl) is the "grave", "pit", or "abyss" in Hebrew.[1][2] She'ol[3] is the earliest conception of the afterlife in the Jewish scriptures. It is a place of darkness to which all dead go, regardless of the moral choices made in life, and where they are "removed from the light of God" (see the Book of Job). In the Tanakh sheol is the common destination of both the righteous and the unrighteous flesh, as recounted in Ecclesiastes and Job."


Everybody behaves like an Eastern Orthodox Christian , looking for good car , good house, good schools good everything. Exceptions are demonized people. This is why I said people are Orthodox Christians in behavior and that they don't choose Eastern orthodox Christianity since they are misguided.

This is the source for nth time: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheol
Thank you. Be advised that every time you quote this source on a different thread, you are required to post a link to the source, since this may be the only one of your threads many people will read.
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« Reply #50 on: December 17, 2011, 01:10:48 PM »

It's a good job we Baptists don't dress our people the same way as you do when they are being baptised!  Smiley

LOL, only babies are baptized nude. With child and adult baptisms, usually the person will either wear all white clothing, or sometimes wear a bathing suit with a white robe over it.

In the Early Church, all individuals were baptized nude, thus we had female deacons for women who were being baptized. Today, things are done a little differently.  Smiley
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« Reply #51 on: December 17, 2011, 01:24:01 PM »

There are no history rules for everything else and history rules for Eastern orthodox Church. There is one history and according with this science, Apostle Luke has painted icons and Church has fought against errors like iconoclasm.

To demonstrate somebody that did not choose baptism for himself and children, to demonstrate that he and his children are not Eastern Orthodox Christians, he should go with children in a pit without light, stay there, in a stinky smell and such and say at the end, I had a great day. Unfortunately this is the future people without baptism prepare for their children. Then I can say, he is not an Eastern Orthodox Christian . "Sheol ( /ˈʃiːoʊl/ shee-ohl or /ˈʃiːəl/ shee-əl; Hebrew שְׁאוֹל Šʾôl) is the "grave", "pit", or "abyss" in Hebrew.[1][2] She'ol[3] is the earliest conception of the afterlife in the Jewish scriptures. It is a place of darkness to which all dead go, regardless of the moral choices made in life, and where they are "removed from the light of God" (see the Book of Job). In the Tanakh sheol is the common destination of both the righteous and the unrighteous flesh, as recounted in Ecclesiastes and Job."


Everybody behaves like an Eastern Orthodox Christian , looking for good car , good house, good schools good everything. Exceptions are demonized people. This is why I said people are Orthodox Christians in behavior and that they don't choose Eastern orthodox Christianity since they are misguided.

This is the source for nth time: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheol

Unfortunately you see people speaking not knowing what they speak about, like people speaking about the greatness of Islam and living Eastern orthodox Christian life...... would they be granted to see in this life , one day now of what Muslims must endure in after life , just to see like on a TV , they would choose their words. THIS IS MY IDEA OF A MOVIE....taking religions one by one and showing what they prepare for in after life hopefully God will make such a movie for us and make us understand that is true and force everybody and everyone to the best life in after life.
However, you haven't answered my claim above that focus on a good afterlife is a Gnostic ideal that is not organic to the Christian faith. Besides, to speak of the afterlife is to make this life the frame of reference for everything else. In the Orthodox tradition, however, we refer everything in this life to the life of the Kingdom that is both now and in the age to come.
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« Reply #52 on: December 17, 2011, 01:26:49 PM »

Focus on good is on all religions .
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« Reply #53 on: December 17, 2011, 01:29:15 PM »

Focus on good is on all religions .
Would you please expound on how this answers anything others have raised on this thread?
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« Reply #54 on: December 17, 2011, 01:29:25 PM »

Focus on good is on all religions .

pasadi97, I'm not sure if it's a language issue or what, but you are woefully misunderstanding what others on this board are trying to say, and have pitifully defended your arguments while artfully dodging any question presented to you.
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« Reply #55 on: December 17, 2011, 01:33:01 PM »

Focus on good is on all religions . So for choosing good I am not a gnostic as I believe it was implied above. I am an Eastern Orthodox Christian.

Again . Focus on good is on all religions . The difference is that Eastern orthodox Christianity gives THE BEST for now while many religions give very bad while pretending to give good.
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« Reply #56 on: December 17, 2011, 01:37:12 PM »

Focus on good is on all religions . So for choosing good I am not a gnostic as I believe it was implied above. I am an Eastern Orthodox Christian.
This little blurb on choosing good has absolutely nothing to do with the substance of my claim that you're preaching Gnostic doctrines.
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« Reply #57 on: December 17, 2011, 01:57:42 PM »

Perhaps it might help if the apparent gnosticism can be exposed for the benefit of users here.


I met some adherents of gnosticism, and they were openly anti-Christian.
While they claimed that they were searching for the truth, they were into a lot of mysticism and New Age practices.
And most alarmingly, they wanted power like Chi.
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« Reply #58 on: December 17, 2011, 02:19:19 PM »

Perhaps it might help if the apparent gnosticism can be exposed for the benefit of users here.


I met some adherents of gnosticism, and they were openly anti-Christian.
While they claimed that they were searching for the truth, they were into a lot of mysticism and New Age practices.
And most alarmingly, they wanted power like Chi.
What I'm pointing out is much more insidious. One doesn't need to be a full-blown Gnostic to profess some Gnostic beliefs. For instance, I've come to recognize that Gnosticism has infected a lot of Protestant thought today, particularly (for this discussion) how many Protestants view life after death (i.e., the ultimate reward for the Christian life being eternal life in heaven as a disembodied spirit--contrast with our Orthodox belief in the resurrection of the dead).

A good article on this can be found here: http://josephpatterson.wordpress.com/2006/10/24/against-the-protestant-gnostics/
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« Reply #59 on: December 17, 2011, 03:18:17 PM »

Perhaps it might help if the apparent gnosticism can be exposed for the benefit of users here.


I met some adherents of gnosticism, and they were openly anti-Christian.
While they claimed that they were searching for the truth, they were into a lot of mysticism and New Age practices.
And most alarmingly, they wanted power like Chi.
What I'm pointing out is much more insidious. One doesn't need to be a full-blown Gnostic to profess some Gnostic beliefs. For instance, I've come to recognize that Gnosticism has infected a lot of Protestant thought today, particularly (for this discussion) how many Protestants view life after death (i.e., the ultimate reward for the Christian life being eternal life in heaven as a disembodied spirit--contrast with our Orthodox belief in the resurrection of the dead).

A good article on this can be found here: http://josephpatterson.wordpress.com/2006/10/24/against-the-protestant-gnostics/

I agree. I have also witnessed some so-called Charismatic Christians who believe that unless one is "initiated" into the Baptism of the Spirit by speaking in tongues, then one does not have salvation.
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« Reply #60 on: December 17, 2011, 05:07:24 PM »

some so-called Charismatic Christians who believe that unless one is "initiated" into the Baptism of the Spirit by speaking in tongues, then one does not have salvation.

I have heard of such people, but I do not think I have ever met one. I wonder whether anecdotes about them are 'apocryphal'. I have had years of lovely and fruitful fellowship and co-operation with Pentecostal brethren, and preached in their churches, but never personally encountered this.
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« Reply #61 on: December 17, 2011, 05:12:37 PM »

some so-called Charismatic Christians who believe that unless one is "initiated" into the Baptism of the Spirit by speaking in tongues, then one does not have salvation.

I have heard of such people, but I do not think I have ever met one. I wonder whether anecdotes about them are 'apocryphal'. I have had years of lovely and fruitful fellowship and co-operation with Pentecostal brethren, and preached in their churches, but never personally encountered this.

Unfortunately, they do exist in Southern California.
I too have met lovely Pentecostal Christians, but the ones who believe that speaking in tongues is a manifestation of predestination also believe that if you have faith, you will be healed, and condemn those who remain sick. They need our prayers.
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« Reply #62 on: December 17, 2011, 05:28:08 PM »

...also believe that if you have faith, you will be healed, and condemn those who remain sick. They need our prayers.

So do their "victims", for they then have both their illness and the condemnation of lack of faith. Such preachers trouble those whom the Lord has not troubled.
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« Reply #63 on: December 17, 2011, 05:47:02 PM »

...also believe that if you have faith, you will be healed, and condemn those who remain sick. They need our prayers.

So do their "victims", for they then have both their illness and the condemnation of lack of faith. Such preachers trouble those whom the Lord has not troubled.

I agree. Lord Jesus Christ have mercy.
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« Reply #64 on: December 17, 2011, 09:50:06 PM »

...also believe that if you have faith, you will be healed, and condemn those who remain sick. They need our prayers.

So do their "victims", for they then have both their illness and the condemnation of lack of faith. Such preachers trouble those whom the Lord has not troubled.
We've had two or three couples here in Oregon each convicted of negligent homicide for refusing to seek medical treatment for a child after their child died of something serious but easily treatable. They were all taught by their church that they were to have faith that God would heal them and their children and that pursuit of medical treatment was borne out of a lack of faith.
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« Reply #65 on: December 18, 2011, 03:37:40 AM »

We've had two or three couples ... convicted of negligent homicide for refusing to seek medical treatment for a child after their child died

The same cause of death has been known here in Britain too. Tragic.
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« Reply #66 on: December 18, 2011, 10:21:07 AM »

We've had two or three couples ... convicted of negligent homicide for refusing to seek medical treatment for a child after their child died

The same cause of death has been known here in Britain too. Tragic.

It is extremely tragic when things like this happen, all we can do is pray for them.

Can I make a suggestion?  it seems to me that the person that started this thread does not have a good command of the English language, how about we tone down a bit and use basic English rather than our usual canter.
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« Reply #67 on: December 19, 2011, 03:11:55 PM »

some so-called Charismatic Christians who believe that unless one is "initiated" into the Baptism of the Spirit by speaking in tongues, then one does not have salvation.

I have heard of such people, but I do not think I have ever met one. I wonder whether anecdotes about them are 'apocryphal'. I have had years of lovely and fruitful fellowship and co-operation with Pentecostal brethren, and preached in their churches, but never personally encountered this.

I can assure you that such people are not imaginary. I have met many such and they are fairly common in my neck of the woods. As a matter of fact, when I was a Lutheran, some members of my congregation became charismatic and caused a major church row, what with their assertions that those of us who had not received the gift of speaking in tongues were not only not Real Christians(tm), but were not saved either. Of course, in time-honored Protestant fashion, they ended up leaving and starting their own church, which then proceeded to split so many times it eventually ceased to exist.
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« Reply #68 on: December 19, 2011, 05:13:22 PM »

...assertions that those of us who had not received the gift of speaking in tongues were not ...saved

May the Lord deliver them from such delusion! They certainly had far abandoned sola scriptura. I am glad you did not fall for such false and  harmful dogma.
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« Reply #69 on: December 19, 2011, 05:24:54 PM »

...assertions that those of us who had not received the gift of speaking in tongues were not ...saved

May the Lord deliver them from such delusion! They certainly had far abandoned sola scriptura. I am glad you did not fall for such false and  harmful dogma.

Not at all. Or at least, sola scriptura as most people understand it - "every man his own Pope, " that is, what the Bible says is what I interpret it to mean. You could wave Scripture under their noses about the different gifts until your arm got tired. The only response from them was a sort of pitying spiritual oneupmanship.
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« Reply #70 on: December 20, 2011, 09:21:18 AM »

You could wave Scripture under their noses ... until your arm got tired.

You and I might indeed wave scripture, but they would be waiving it! Have they not made salvation dependent, not on faith in Christ, but on faith in Christ + a recent and minority view of the charismata? Whether the Evangelical Faith be true or false does not come into it: the fact is, we have never made salvation dependent on experience of the charismatic gifts. That is a new and false mutation which takes people out of both your camp and ours.
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« Reply #71 on: December 20, 2011, 02:17:04 PM »

You could wave Scripture under their noses ... until your arm got tired.

You and I might indeed wave scripture, but they would be waiving it! Have they not made salvation dependent, not on faith in Christ, but on faith in Christ + a recent and minority view of the charismata? Whether the Evangelical Faith be true or false does not come into it: the fact is, we have never made salvation dependent on experience of the charismatic gifts. That is a new and false mutation which takes people out of both your camp and ours.

Indeed, those Pentecostals (especially the Oneness variety) are waiving most of the scriptures by focusing on a few portions and then blowing those verses out of proportion.

That is why we call them Rootless Christians. They have lost contact with the Apostolic Church, lack Apostolic Succession, and so fall into every possible error imaginable.

Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on them and save them.
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« Reply #72 on: December 20, 2011, 02:51:11 PM »

You could wave Scripture under their noses ... until your arm got tired.

You and I might indeed wave scripture, but they would be waiving it! Have they not made salvation dependent, not on faith in Christ, but on faith in Christ + a recent and minority view of the charismata? Whether the Evangelical Faith be true or false does not come into it: the fact is, we have never made salvation dependent on experience of the charismatic gifts. That is a new and false mutation which takes people out of both your camp and ours.

Indeed, those Pentecostals (especially the Oneness variety) are waiving most of the scriptures by focusing on a few portions and then blowing those verses out of proportion.

That is why we call them Rootless Christians. They have lost contact with the Apostolic Church, lack Apostolic Succession, and so fall into every possible error imaginable.

Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on them and save them.

But isn't that the reality of (at least in American Protestantism today) and the result of what we might call a Protestant hermaneutic - focus on a few verses (usually out of context) and then blowing them out of proportion to form a new sect?

You may see it as a new and false mutation but, based on Christian history and the Fathers, that is exactly what Protestantism and/or evangelicalism looks to us.
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« Reply #73 on: December 20, 2011, 03:05:12 PM »

You could wave Scripture under their noses ... until your arm got tired.

You and I might indeed wave scripture, but they would be waiving it! Have they not made salvation dependent, not on faith in Christ, but on faith in Christ + a recent and minority view of the charismata? Whether the Evangelical Faith be true or false does not come into it: the fact is, we have never made salvation dependent on experience of the charismatic gifts. That is a new and false mutation which takes people out of both your camp and ours.

Indeed, those Pentecostals (especially the Oneness variety) are waiving most of the scriptures by focusing on a few portions and then blowing those verses out of proportion.

That is why we call them Rootless Christians. They have lost contact with the Apostolic Church, lack Apostolic Succession, and so fall into every possible error imaginable.

Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on them and save them.

But isn't that the reality of (at least in American Protestantism today) and the result of what we might call a Protestant hermaneutic - focus on a few verses (usually out of context) and then blowing them out of proportion to form a new sect?

You may see it as a new and false mutation but, based on Christian history and the Fathers, that is exactly what Protestantism and/or evangelicalism looks to us.

Really, there are no new heresies, but only rehashed heresies.

Gnosticism and Arianism are on the rise today.
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« Reply #74 on: December 20, 2011, 05:48:01 PM »

You could wave Scripture under their noses ... until your arm got tired.

You and I might indeed wave scripture, but they would be waiving it! Have they not made salvation dependent, not on faith in Christ, but on faith in Christ + a recent and minority view of the charismata? Whether the Evangelical Faith be true or false does not come into it: the fact is, we have never made salvation dependent on experience of the charismatic gifts. That is a new and false mutation which takes people out of both your camp and ours.

Indeed, those Pentecostals (especially the Oneness variety) are waiving most of the scriptures by focusing on a few portions and then blowing those verses out of proportion.

That is why we call them Rootless Christians. They have lost contact with the Apostolic Church, lack Apostolic Succession, and so fall into every possible error imaginable.

Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on them and save them.

But isn't that the reality of (at least in American Protestantism today) and the result of what we might call a Protestant hermaneutic - focus on a few verses (usually out of context) and then blowing them out of proportion to form a new sect?

You may see it as a new and false mutation but, based on Christian history and the Fathers, that is exactly what Protestantism and/or evangelicalism looks to us.

Really, there are no new heresies, but only rehashed heresies.

Gnosticism and Arianism are on the rise today.

Exactly.
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« Reply #75 on: December 21, 2011, 12:17:48 AM »

You and I might indeed wave scripture, but they would be waiving it!

Not at all.  Having come out of the "word of faith" pentecostal movement where this belief is very common, they would tell you that the Scriptures say exactly what they are teaching, and they can show you the relevant Scriptures, too.  It's there, and it can be interpreted to mean exactly what they're saying -- IF allowed to isolate Scriptures, dismiss other ones (or interpret them differently), and remove themselves entirely from any historical church. 
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« Reply #76 on: December 21, 2011, 02:04:00 AM »

Quote
Can I make a suggestion?  it seems to me that the person that started this thread does not have a good command of the English language, how about we tone down a bit and use basic English rather than our usual canter.

I'm sorry, but all I could do was laugh when I read this statement. It's understandable since I have Chinese in my signature. However, I assure you that I am an American (born and raised) with a Bachelor's degree in English (hence why your misunderstanding is so funny!).  Cheesy

Also, I've since become a catachumen and I now believe the Orthodox church's teaching on baptism.
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« Reply #77 on: December 21, 2011, 03:13:44 AM »

Quote
Can I make a suggestion?  it seems to me that the person that started this thread does not have a good command of the English language, how about we tone down a bit and use basic English rather than our usual canter.

I'm sorry, but all I could do was laugh when I read this statement. It's understandable since I have Chinese in my signature. However, I assure you that I am an American (born and raised) with a Bachelor's degree in English (hence why your misunderstanding is so funny!).  Cheesy

Also, I've since become a catachumen and I now believe the Orthodox church's teaching on baptism.
I somehow suspect the real mistake is believing that pasadi97 started this thread. laugh
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« Reply #78 on: December 21, 2011, 05:05:23 AM »

the Scriptures say exactly what they are teaching, ... IF allowed to isolate Scriptures, dismiss other ones (or interpret them differently), and remove themselves entirely from any historical church. 

I couldn't have put it better myself. Quite so.
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« Reply #79 on: December 21, 2011, 12:03:24 PM »

the Scriptures say exactly what they are teaching, ... IF allowed to isolate Scriptures, dismiss other ones (or interpret them differently), and remove themselves entirely from any historical church. 

I couldn't have put it better myself. Quite so.

I am delighted, though surprised, to hear you say so, David. Since this is the basis of Protestantism and its Evangelical branch. Are you telling us that you acknowledge the historic Church? In that case, may I be the first to welcome you home!
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« Reply #80 on: December 21, 2011, 12:40:46 PM »

the Scriptures say exactly what they are teaching, ... IF allowed to isolate Scriptures, dismiss other ones (or interpret them differently), and remove themselves entirely from any historical church. 

I couldn't have put it better myself. Quite so.

Welcome to the historical Apostolic Orthodox Church!
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« Reply #81 on: December 21, 2011, 01:05:30 PM »

Welcome to the historical Apostolic Orthodox Church!

Thank you. It's good to be a member!
 Wink
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« Reply #82 on: December 21, 2011, 01:07:51 PM »

Are you telling us that you acknowledge the historic Church?

Yes - and I'm happy to say that, corresponding so long with you good people, has persuaded me that the Eastern Orthodox Church is a real part of it!

(So are we Baptists, of course.)
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« Reply #83 on: December 21, 2011, 02:36:41 PM »

Are you telling us that you acknowledge the historic Church?

Yes - and I'm happy to say that, corresponding so long with you good people, has persuaded me that the Eastern Orthodox Church is a real part of it!

(So are we Baptists, of course.)

Oh, dear. I knew it was too good to be true. We still have work to do, I see, starting with your persistent misunderstanding. I refer, of course, to the fact that the Orthodox Church is not a part of the historic Church - it is that Church.

While the Baptists, good and God-loving people though they may be, are not.
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« Reply #84 on: December 21, 2011, 02:59:40 PM »

We still have work to do, ... part of the historic Church ... Baptists, good and God-loving people though they may be, are not.

Banter aside, y'all have achieved a good deal already. Twenty years ago, I think I would have thought it rather unlikely that an Orthodox was also a real Christian. That has entirely changed. Two things effected this: one was the writings of some who post on this Forum, the other was the book with a title something like The Resurrection of the Church in Albania, which I have at my office not here at home and am not fully sure of the title and author - I think it was by Jim Forrester, aided by the late Mrs Hoppe. I felt one would have to be purblind not to see the hand of God in what is recorded in that book.
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« Reply #85 on: December 21, 2011, 03:10:48 PM »

We still have work to do, ... part of the historic Church ... Baptists, good and God-loving people though they may be, are not.

Banter aside, y'all have achieved a good deal already. Twenty years ago, I think I would have thought it rather unlikely that an Orthodox was also a real Christian. That has entirely changed. Two things effected this: one was the writings of some who post on this Forum, the other was the book with a title something like The Resurrection of the Church in Albania, which I have at my office not here at home and am not fully sure of the title and author - I think it was by Jim Forrester, aided by the late Mrs Hoppe. I felt one would have to be purblind not to see the hand of God in what is recorded in that book.

Maybe you would like to listen to Orthodox radio and podcasts, there is a English priest on there called Fr Gregory Hallam that does a podcast called A voice from the Isles.  http://ancientfaith.com

20 years hay, not bad going  Wink
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« Reply #86 on: December 21, 2011, 04:34:24 PM »

Maybe you would like to listen to Orthodox radio and podcasts, there is a English priest on there ...

Yes, I'd like that - if it's anywhere near as good as some of the Orthodox books I've read. However, I am far too old to know what a podcast is - food the Prodigal Son threw (or rather cast) to the swine in the days of his absence from home? But the radio is a good idea. I shall click on the link.
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« Reply #87 on: December 21, 2011, 04:44:07 PM »

what a podcast is

Audio recording posted on the internet that can be accessed at anytime. Kind of like a blog, but in sound instead of writing. Ancient Faith Radio has some pretty interesting ones on there.
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« Reply #88 on: December 21, 2011, 06:03:23 PM »

what a podcast is

Audio recording posted on the internet

Our grandson plugs earphones into the computer when he comes (usually most weeks): I'll get him to show me.
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« Reply #89 on: December 22, 2011, 05:46:56 AM »

It strikes me that there is a sort of mirror-image effect here. I suspect there are a good number of Baptists and other Evangelicals who find it hard to think that an Orthodox is possibly also a Christian (though if pressed, they would probably just about grant it); reading posts by some on the Forum, I gain the impression that almost the exact opposite is also true - that there are Orthodox who consider it very unlikely that any of us Baptists &c are true Christians (that is, are "in Christ" as the scriptures express it). In fact, I believe that there are a good number of Orthodox and of Baptists who are in Christ - and sadly, a good number of both who are not, despite bearing the name. Of the first, it is as it is somewhere written, that Christ is not ashamed to call them brethren: such, as I wrote yesterday, was the clear impression a certain book about the Orthodox Church in Albania under Communism gave me. But what was also remarkable to me about that book was the close similarity between it and the books of Richard Wurmbrand about the Baptists of Romania during the same period. Once again, it would be hard to deny that our Lord was acknowledging them also as his, and living and working among them. I feel a bit like Peter when confronted with Cornelius: if Christ acknowledges them as his, how can I doubt that they are my brethren? Indeed, why should I even wish to?
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"But if you bite and devour one another, take heed that you are not consumed by one another." Galatians 5.15
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