Author Topic: singles?  (Read 103945 times)

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Offline Čtec

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Re: singles?
« Reply #585 on: March 26, 2018, 07:26:26 PM »
In greek we call it. Exogamo. Marrying outside your village and edogamo. Marring within your village. Most greeks these days tend to move to Athens.  To become more main steam, or in favor of city life. Most women that is. Because a lot of these villages are full of single men. The woman are all gone, in favor of living a city life. They want malls, high end shoes, they want to look good. The Kardashian affect.

Come to any Serbian village, all you can see is men slowly walking like zombies, while in cities women clean toilets and dive their hair wanting to be Slavic again.
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Offline Čtec

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Re: singles?
« Reply #586 on: March 26, 2018, 07:29:12 PM »
I have asked my father (he lives in a village) to find me a wife, but we concluded all of them are more or less pagans. I also asked him to give me money to buy a wife in Albania, but he still hates their kind too much.

Good Lord.

We are not all Americans, let us have our way of life too.

Buying people is illegal in America.

I have already explained it, you don't really buy a person. 
"On Mount Konjuh the wind blows, sings. The leafs chant sad songs. Maples and frasers! Pines and birches are swinging together.
The night has put all forest in to black. Mount Konjuh roars, rocks are breaking!
Dead comrade, Pustinja's miner,  being buried by the company of proleters"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyzGJMbHg0E

Offline Čtec

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Re: singles?
« Reply #587 on: March 26, 2018, 07:32:07 PM »
Women are too cool to live in a village because they are less hairy.
"On Mount Konjuh the wind blows, sings. The leafs chant sad songs. Maples and frasers! Pines and birches are swinging together.
The night has put all forest in to black. Mount Konjuh roars, rocks are breaking!
Dead comrade, Pustinja's miner,  being buried by the company of proleters"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyzGJMbHg0E

Offline Tzimis

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Re: singles?
« Reply #588 on: March 26, 2018, 07:32:34 PM »
In greek we call it. Exogamo. Marrying outside your village and edogamo. Marring within your village. Most greeks these days tend to move to Athens.  To become more main steam, or in favor of city life. Most women that is. Because a lot of these villages are full of single men. The woman are all gone, in favor of living a city life. They want malls, high end shoes, they want to look good. The Kardashian affect.

Come to any Serbian village, all you can see is men slowly walking like zombies, while in cities women clean toilets and dive their hair wanting to be Slavic again.
Its common.  A woman would rather have a rich man. Than a man with a big ego and a bunch of sheep.

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« Last Edit: March 26, 2018, 07:41:35 PM by Antonis »

Offline Čtec

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Re: singles?
« Reply #589 on: March 26, 2018, 07:34:57 PM »
Sex is sweet, pork is sweet, but nothing is more sweet than hating women.
"On Mount Konjuh the wind blows, sings. The leafs chant sad songs. Maples and frasers! Pines and birches are swinging together.
The night has put all forest in to black. Mount Konjuh roars, rocks are breaking!
Dead comrade, Pustinja's miner,  being buried by the company of proleters"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyzGJMbHg0E

Offline Antonis

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Re: singles?
« Reply #590 on: March 26, 2018, 07:37:41 PM »
Thread locked pending moderatorial review.
"Verily they that seek Thee, Lord, and keep the canons of Thy Holy Church shall never want any good thing.”
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Re: singles?
« Reply #591 on: April 13, 2018, 10:02:03 AM »
Unlocked. Do behave in a way that would not drive away any potential life partners.
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Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: singles?
« Reply #592 on: April 13, 2018, 10:05:35 AM »
I have asked my father (he lives in a village) to find me a wife, but we concluded all of them are more or less pagans. I also asked him to give me money to buy a wife in Albania, but he still hates their kind too much.

Good Lord.




We are not all Americans, let us have our way of life too.

Buying people is illegal in America.

I have already explained it, you don't really buy a person.



https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/zmebnw/the-rural-villages-where-men-buy-their-brides

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Offline Alpo

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Re: singles?
« Reply #593 on: April 13, 2018, 03:25:43 PM »
^Thanks. Super interesting. Completely opposite of how my cultural sphere acts.
I just need to find out how to say it in Slavonic!

Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: singles?
« Reply #594 on: April 13, 2018, 03:57:37 PM »
^Thanks. Super interesting. Completely opposite of how my cultural sphere acts.


other than the cross culture/country aspects of it....i am sure its pretty much how my grandparents and great grandparents were decided on....parents and others having a much larger say in things.....
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Offline Volnutt

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Re: singles?
« Reply #595 on: April 13, 2018, 04:42:36 PM »
^Thanks. Super interesting. Completely opposite of how my cultural sphere acts.


other than the cross culture/country aspects of it....i am sure its pretty much how my grandparents and great grandparents were decided on....parents and others having a much larger say in things.....

And then there was all this weirdness in Merry Old England.
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Offline Alpo

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Re: singles?
« Reply #596 on: April 14, 2018, 08:36:21 AM »
^Thanks. Super interesting. Completely opposite of how my cultural sphere acts.


other than the cross culture/country aspects of it....i am sure its pretty much how my grandparents and great grandparents were decided on....parents and others having a much larger say in things.....

Migh have been how it happened around here a hundred or two years ago. Still I have no contact with that kind of lifestyle. That makes the article interesting.
I just need to find out how to say it in Slavonic!

Offline Volnutt

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Re: singles?
« Reply #597 on: April 14, 2018, 06:41:19 PM »
Personally, I wouldn't object if my parents or somebody else tried to find a wife for me (as long as both her and I had veto power, though my list of "deal breakers" is personally pretty short- interpret that as desperation if you like). In fact, it would be kind of nice to not have so much pressure to try and find someone and ask them out.

There's just no real infrastructure for it here in WASPland and even if there was, I'd hate to see it take on grossly commercial dimensions.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2018, 06:42:34 PM by Volnutt »
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Offline Dominika

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Re: singles?
« Reply #598 on: May 02, 2018, 03:55:54 PM »
I've got invitation to wedding of next friend that's getting married in July. I'm happy for her. But I'm unhappy for me - I don't have a good candidate to go together. Well, at least at this wedding there will be one of my friends beyond the bride - last year I was at wedding that I knew well only the groom and his friends that were present at the reception were in pairs, so I went with a guy to whom I had said some time earlier that us as a couple couldn't work (he's not Orthodox, but Catholic, with some "loose" thinking about premarital sex, plus actually he doesn't attract me physically), and it was an error. But on the other hand, I had no other choice - my best friend that's male now lives abroad, I still have a few male aquitances that are not married yet, but they're not into parties or are able to make some troubles.
Normally I'd go with one of my female friends, but it's still not well perceived in Poland (it's always suspicious).
It's really a shame, that I don't have anybody even to go to a wedding reception, not even mention to have a candidate to have our own wedding reception.
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: singles?
« Reply #599 on: May 02, 2018, 04:08:02 PM »
I've got invitation to wedding of next friend that's getting married in July. I'm happy for her. But I'm unhappy for me - I don't have a good candidate to go together. Well, at least at this wedding there will be one of my friends beyond the bride - last year I was at wedding that I knew well only the groom and his friends that were present at the reception were in pairs, so I went with a guy to whom I had said some time earlier that us as a couple couldn't work (he's not Orthodox, but Catholic, with some "loose" thinking about premarital sex, plus actually he doesn't attract me physically), and it was an error. But on the other hand, I had no other choice - my best friend that's male now lives abroad, I still have a few male aquitances that are not married yet, but they're not into parties or are able to make some troubles.
Normally I'd go with one of my female friends, but it's still not well perceived in Poland (it's always suspicious).
It's really a shame, that I don't have anybody even to go to a wedding reception, not even mention to have a candidate to have our own wedding reception.
In October I'm being a sponsor in the marriage of an Orthodox couple I introduced to each other, it's merry in one hand and a bit sad (maybe envidious, which is very bad) in another as I see how I had multiple pointless relationship in the meantime I've known them. We also come in pairs, but I'll be paired with a girl (in a relationship) I never met. Why don't you take extended family? I always feel fine taking my cousin to this kind of occasion.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2018, 04:10:07 PM by RaphaCam »
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Offline Dominika

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Re: singles?
« Reply #600 on: May 02, 2018, 04:57:12 PM »
I've got invitation to wedding of next friend that's getting married in July. I'm happy for her. But I'm unhappy for me - I don't have a good candidate to go together. Well, at least at this wedding there will be one of my friends beyond the bride - last year I was at wedding that I knew well only the groom and his friends that were present at the reception were in pairs, so I went with a guy to whom I had said some time earlier that us as a couple couldn't work (he's not Orthodox, but Catholic, with some "loose" thinking about premarital sex, plus actually he doesn't attract me physically), and it was an error. But on the other hand, I had no other choice - my best friend that's male now lives abroad, I still have a few male aquitances that are not married yet, but they're not into parties or are able to make some troubles.
Normally I'd go with one of my female friends, but it's still not well perceived in Poland (it's always suspicious).
It's really a shame, that I don't have anybody even to go to a wedding reception, not even mention to have a candidate to have our own wedding reception.
In October I'm being a sponsor in the marriage of an Orthodox couple I introduced to each other, it's merry in one hand and a bit sad (maybe envidious, which is very bad) in another as I see how I had multiple pointless relationship in the meantime I've known them. We also come in pairs, but I'll be paired with a girl (in a relationship) I never met. Why don't you take extended family? I always feel fine taking my cousin to this kind of occasion.
I don't know, what is worse: to have multiple pointless relationships in a short time or to not have them at all during the whole life.

Anyway, the family is another reason, I'd like to finally have a boyfriend and to get married. Both my parents are 67. Half of my family lives in Serbia and Bosnia (and since death of my grandparents I have a very rare contact with them, and actually this family is quite tiny). Another half is there, in Warsaw and its surrondings, however, again it's tiny (in 90s and beginnign of this century at least a few of them died, I've never met my Polish grandma and my Polish grandpa died when I was half a year old) and has been in quarrel over 11 years. I met most of them at funeral of my cousin and reception after it last October (my mother has been keeping in touch with them, but it's too long story and actually too much mysterious for me, probably related to problems with my father). Another fact is that since my mother got married lately (when she was 40), I was over years the youngest one in the family, so now my male cousins are a few years old, or over 30s and having their own families. But, actually, I have 5 adult male cousins (one died when he was 19 many years ago). The one aunt with whom we had good contact (but not with her husband nor daughter over some years) died 2 years ago. So, we (actually my mother and me, my father is in a row with her) have only one member of the family with whom we have good contact, and that's daugther of my mother's late sister. She's almost like a sibiling for me. BTW, she's 44, attractive, intelligent and alone (not Orthodox, but had some relationships, especially one that was lasting with some breaks over 15 years and it seems it's a reason for this situation).
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: singles?
« Reply #601 on: May 02, 2018, 10:12:49 PM »
I don't know, what is worse: to have multiple pointless relationships in a short time or to not have them at all during the whole life.
The first option gets one more broken, but at least it's experience... You're a beautiful and smart young woman, there are a lot of men out there looking for someone just like you, you just have to find each other and make it work. Also, you're 26, a lot of people get married before this age (specially if religious), but being single is far from abnormal.
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Offline Sharbel

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Re: singles?
« Reply #602 on: May 03, 2018, 02:07:46 AM »
... Also, you're 26, a lot of people get married before this age (specially if religious), but being single is far from abnormal.
+1

There's nothing abnormal about being single.  And, since it's the starting point and foundation of being married, one should be content and fulfilled as a single person.  A common mistake is to think that marriage will complete someone, as if someone is not fulfilled unless one is married.  This is a romantic idiocy peddled by Hollywood and the Romantics from the turn into the 20th century.  On the contrary, marriage requires two completed and fulfilled single persons for the wholesome mission to sanctify each other.  As a matter of fact, marriage is the last think that incomplete and frustrated persons should enter into, as these defects will just to compound on the other's, compromising marriage stability.

Finally, just 26?  Pfft!  There's plenty of time to find the right mate.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2018, 02:10:50 AM by Sharbel »
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Offline Lepanto

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Re: singles?
« Reply #603 on: May 03, 2018, 02:54:14 AM »
How much people long for marriage! And once they are married, they realize that the thing with crowns plus martyrdom was meant seriously  :o
Once the initial elation wears off - and it always eventually does - there is a lot of hard work left.
I am not saying that you don´t get compensated in one way or another, but much less so than people imagine.
26 is still young and you should enjoy your relative "freedom" while it lasts.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2018, 02:57:35 AM by Lepanto »
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Offline Volnutt

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Re: singles?
« Reply #604 on: May 03, 2018, 02:58:18 AM »
How much people long for marriage! And once they are married, they realize that the thing with crowns plus martyrdom was meant seriously  :o
Once the initial elation wears off - and it always eventually does - there is a lot of hard work left.
I am not saying that you don´t get compensated in one way or another, but much less so than people imagine.
26 is still young and you should enjoy your relative "freedom" as long as you can.

Life in general is hard work and I'm already enslaved by debt and near-poverty. There's little for me to enjoy that I wouldn't be able to married. Of course, that's just me.
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Offline Lepanto

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Re: singles?
« Reply #605 on: May 03, 2018, 03:10:16 AM »
How much people long for marriage! And once they are married, they realize that the thing with crowns plus martyrdom was meant seriously  :o
Once the initial elation wears off - and it always eventually does - there is a lot of hard work left.
I am not saying that you don´t get compensated in one way or another, but much less so than people imagine.
26 is still young and you should enjoy your relative "freedom" as long as you can.

Life in general is hard work and I'm already enslaved by debt and near-poverty. There's little for me to enjoy that I wouldn't be able to married. Of course, that's just me.

Well, of course, each life is a different story.
I was not in a single (!) relationship until the age of 26, then married my first girlfriend at the age of 28.
Naturally, there is more of a time pressure for women, if they would like to have a big family  ;D
Still, don´t panic early.

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Re: singles?
« Reply #606 on: May 03, 2018, 03:47:40 AM »
How much people long for marriage! And once they are married, they realize that the thing with crowns plus martyrdom was meant seriously  :o
Once the initial elation wears off - and it always eventually does - there is a lot of hard work left.
I am not saying that you don´t get compensated in one way or another, but much less so than people imagine.
26 is still young and you should enjoy your relative "freedom" as long as you can.

Life in general is hard work and I'm already enslaved by debt and near-poverty. There's little for me to enjoy that I wouldn't be able to married. Of course, that's just me.

Well, of course, each life is a different story.
I was not in a single (!) relationship until the age of 26, then married my first girlfriend at the age of 28.
Naturally, there is more of a time pressure for women, if they would like to have a big family  ;D
Still, don´t panic early.

Not panicked. More resigned than anything.

I'll either find somebody or I won't, I don't really expect a wonderfully fantastic life either way. I'm a toiler by lot and by my own failures.
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Offline Dominika

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Re: singles?
« Reply #607 on: May 03, 2018, 07:35:21 AM »
How much people long for marriage! And once they are married, they realize that the thing with crowns plus martyrdom was meant seriously  :o
Once the initial elation wears off - and it always eventually does - there is a lot of hard work left.
I am not saying that you don´t get compensated in one way or another, but much less so than people imagine.
26 is still young and you should enjoy your relative "freedom" while it lasts.

I love challenges ;) And I like the idea of marriage as a commong struggle for salvation, theosis and so on.

Actually, if you're a real Christian, the unique "freedom" in being single is that you don't have family started by your own, so, probably, you have less duties.


Well, of course, each life is a different story.
I was not in a single (!) relationship until the age of 26, then married my first girlfriend at the age of 28.
Naturally, there is more of a time pressure for women, if they would like to have a big family  ;D
Still, don´t panic early.

So, that's my situation (I haven't been in any relationship until now and I'm 26,5).
And the pressure is not only about having a big family. I find at least 3 others.
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Offline Lepanto

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Re: singles?
« Reply #608 on: May 03, 2018, 08:41:19 AM »
I love challenges ;) And I like the idea of marriage as a commong struggle for salvation, theosis and so on.

Hm...
In theory, this all sounds great, common struggle for salvation, getting closer to god as a married couple, marriage as icon of Christ and the church and whatnot.
In practice, it quickly boils down to the question who gets up at 1 am when the little one won´t stop crying and you are both dead tired :D
Or the hour-long debates you are going to have over finances.
It is kinda hard in everyday business not to lose sight of the bigger picture.

Another aspect is expectations. The perfect spouse

a) shares the same faith
b) is physically attractive
c) is compatible in terms of character

Remember you always only get two out of these three :D
Choose wisely. Personally, I would always go for c) first.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2018, 08:41:55 AM by Lepanto »
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Offline Dominika

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Re: singles?
« Reply #609 on: May 03, 2018, 01:51:07 PM »
I love challenges ;) And I like the idea of marriage as a commong struggle for salvation, theosis and so on.

Hm...
In theory, this all sounds great, common struggle for salvation, getting closer to god as a married couple, marriage as icon of Christ and the church and whatnot.
In practice, it quickly boils down to the question who gets up at 1 am when the little one won´t stop crying and you are both dead tired :D
Or the hour-long debates you are going to have over finances.
It is kinda hard in everyday business not to lose sight of the bigger picture.
Anyway, I prefer this than being alone.. And well, the one who gets up at 1 am should be a fruit of love (and pleasure, in some way).

Another aspect is expectations. The perfect spouse

a) shares the same faith
b) is physically attractive
c) is compatible in terms of character

Remember you always only get two out of these three :D
Choose wisely. Personally, I would always go for c) first.
Ah, I'd go for the first two...
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Re: singles?
« Reply #610 on: May 03, 2018, 02:15:38 PM »
I went for (b) and (c). (a) has been taking care of itself. 8)
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Offline Lepanto

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Re: singles?
« Reply #611 on: May 03, 2018, 02:21:30 PM »
I went for (b) and (c). (a) has been taking care of itself. 8)
Also went for b) and c). a) is the reason I am on this forum  ;)
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: singles?
« Reply #612 on: May 03, 2018, 08:39:55 PM »
a/c would be the ideal to me if I could choose too. Attractives always wears out IMHO, people always get too milder and more regular over a bit of time to me.
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Re: singles?
« Reply #613 on: May 03, 2018, 10:26:10 PM »
Another aspect is expectations. The perfect spouse

a) shares the same faith
b) is physically attractive
c) is compatible in terms of character
Ah, I'd go for the first two...

It's a common mistake.  I've known those who, because of no C, they regarded B with disgust.
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Re: singles?
« Reply #614 on: May 03, 2018, 10:33:31 PM »
Another aspect is expectations. The perfect spouse

a) shares the same faith
b) is physically attractive
c) is compatible in terms of character
Ah, I'd go for the first two...

It's a common mistake.  I've known those who, because of no C, they regarded B with disgust.

Indeed. Plus, as someone who's merely average at best in the looks department, I feel like it's important for me to be very forgiving in that regard since it's a two way street.
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Re: singles?
« Reply #615 on: May 04, 2018, 07:02:05 AM »
Another aspect is expectations. The perfect spouse

a) shares the same faith
b) is physically attractive
c) is compatible in terms of character
Ah, I'd go for the first two...

It's a common mistake.  I've known those who, because of no C, they regarded B with disgust.

Indeed. Plus, as someone who's merely average at best in the looks department, I feel like it's important for me to be very forgiving in that regard since it's a two way street.

One doesn't have to be conventionally attractive for a prospective partner to be attracted to them. Thank goodness, because good luck trying to build a satisfying sex life with someone you're not physically attracted to.
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Re: singles?
« Reply #616 on: May 04, 2018, 07:03:03 AM »
Another aspect is expectations. The perfect spouse

a) shares the same faith
b) is physically attractive
c) is compatible in terms of character
Ah, I'd go for the first two...

It's a common mistake.  I've known those who, because of no C, they regarded B with disgust.

Indeed. Plus, as someone who's merely average at best in the looks department, I feel like it's important for me to be very forgiving in that regard since it's a two way street.

Well, two things:
1. I think in countries with Orthodox majority or big Orthodox minority is possible to get all 3
3. B - I do not speak that the person should be like one of the celebrities from colour magazines or from adverts of razors/underwear, but that this perosn should be attractive for me (and I should be attractive for this person). Why? If no, tehre is only friendship. As I've said before, I think not only in this thread: I've always had some male friends, and it's possible because we don't find attractive each other (or, more precisely: even if sb is attractive, it doesn't mean he/she attracts certain person, so, we don't attract each other).
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Re: singles?
« Reply #617 on: May 04, 2018, 12:05:00 PM »
So why does he assume a job,house,wife,and kids? ...
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Re: singles?
« Reply #618 on: May 04, 2018, 05:18:18 PM »
Another aspect is expectations. The perfect spouse

a) shares the same faith
b) is physically attractive
c) is compatible in terms of character
Ah, I'd go for the first two...

It's a common mistake.  I've known those who, because of no C, they regarded B with disgust.

Indeed. Plus, as someone who's merely average at best in the looks department, I feel like it's important for me to be very forgiving in that regard since it's a two way street.

One doesn't have to be conventionally attractive for a prospective partner to be attracted to them. Thank goodness, because good luck trying to build a satisfying sex life with someone you're not physically attracted to.

I guess I've always found it pretty easy to get attracted to all kinds of women (though I do have my limits as I've unfortunately found out in recent years). Intelligence and personality also tends to factor into sexual attraction for me, I think.[/virtuesignal]

I suppose I only hope that there are women out there who are much the same way.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2018, 05:18:33 PM by Volnutt »
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Offline Ainnir

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Re: singles?
« Reply #619 on: May 08, 2018, 08:48:41 AM »
Hm...
In theory, this all sounds great, common struggle for salvation, getting closer to god as a married couple, marriage as icon of Christ and the church and whatnot.
In practice, it quickly boils down to the question who gets up at 1 am when the little one won´t stop crying and you are both dead tired :D
Or the hour-long debates you are going to have over finances.
It is kinda hard in everyday business not to lose sight of the bigger picture.

Another aspect is expectations. The perfect spouse

a) shares the same faith
b) is physically attractive
c) is compatible in terms of character

Remember you always only get two out of these three :D
Choose wisely. Personally, I would always go for c) first.

I keep thinking about this post and I have to respectfully disagree with you.

The struggle together for salvation, marriage as an icon of Christ, each of us as an icon of Christ are all about who gets up at 1 a.m. when you're both dead tired, and the hour-long debates over finances, unexpected job loss, on and on.  Basically, the nitty gritty is what the big picture looks like, and vice versa.  Yes the services, yes they prayers, yes the icons (for us).  But those are the guides and the food, not the work and the struggle.  I will say you need the former to do the latter right, but the latter shouldn't be neglected and the former done in a void.

I think your list is a list of essentials.  Maybe the perfect spouse perfectly fulfills all of those all the time, but each of those things are essential on some level.  However, each one doesn't have to line up perfectly all the time, nor does a disconnect automatically doom a marriage.  It's a question of priorities and expectations; a couple's priorities in each of those categories needs to roughly line up, and each person needs to be charitable enough to cover the inevitable ebb and flow we all go through in the course of life.  But would you have married an atheist, Lepanto?  As it stands right now, faith in your marriage is shared on some level: they're both a Trinitarian belief system within a liturgical framework.  However, if one is wanting to actively live by their faith tradition, marrying within that tradition is going to be the simplest and least troublesome option, sure enough.  If that didn't happen, or one changes mid-marriage, it can still be worked through depending on the disposition of each spouse.  It just may be more difficult (again, depending on the spouses).

The same with the other two items.  Everyone has different tastes and drives when it comes to physical attraction, as well as different expectations.  And I think our perception of beauty is actually more malleable than we realize.  Which is good, because we don't stay 25 forever.  Here I agree with Sharbel: good looks can never compensate for bad character.  Personality differences come down to expectations and charity.  For example, if an introvert and extrovert are willing to give each other what they need socially and occasionally be uncomfortable for the other's sake, there's no reason it can't work.  The compatibility is there, just obliquely, if that makes sense.

For best practices, look for all three things listed, but also do some soul searching about where you really stand on each and whether those priorities and expectations are realistic and godly.  We're all deeply flawed and are not going to iron everything out before we die.  It's more a question of whether we're willing to inch toward God and healing personally and maritally, and how willing we are to hold on when one or both spouses stalls out.


A side note on frivolous relationships: Rapha hit that nail on the head.  They're easier in the short term, though.  It might even be fun for a minute, sort of like candy tastes good and might satisfy hunger for a while, but offers no sustenance.  Same thing goes for eye candy.  It's not that having had frivolous or harmful relationships can't be repented from and worked past, but if one is in a position to avoid the mess altogether, it really and truly is worth the struggle even if it very much doesn't feel that way.
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Re: singles?
« Reply #620 on: May 08, 2018, 11:08:54 AM »
Hm...
In theory, this all sounds great, common struggle for salvation, getting closer to god as a married couple, marriage as icon of Christ and the church and whatnot.
In practice, it quickly boils down to the question who gets up at 1 am when the little one won´t stop crying and you are both dead tired :D
Or the hour-long debates you are going to have over finances.
It is kinda hard in everyday business not to lose sight of the bigger picture.

Another aspect is expectations. The perfect spouse

a) shares the same faith
b) is physically attractive
c) is compatible in terms of character

Remember you always only get two out of these three :D
Choose wisely. Personally, I would always go for c) first.

I keep thinking about this post and I have to respectfully disagree with you.

The struggle together for salvation, marriage as an icon of Christ, each of us as an icon of Christ are all about who gets up at 1 a.m. when you're both dead tired, and the hour-long debates over finances, unexpected job loss, on and on.  Basically, the nitty gritty is what the big picture looks like, and vice versa.  Yes the services, yes they prayers, yes the icons (for us).  But those are the guides and the food, not the work and the struggle.  I will say you need the former to do the latter right, but the latter shouldn't be neglected and the former done in a void.

I think your list is a list of essentials.  Maybe the perfect spouse perfectly fulfills all of those all the time, but each of those things are essential on some level.  However, each one doesn't have to line up perfectly all the time, nor does a disconnect automatically doom a marriage.  It's a question of priorities and expectations; a couple's priorities in each of those categories needs to roughly line up, and each person needs to be charitable enough to cover the inevitable ebb and flow we all go through in the course of life.  But would you have married an atheist, Lepanto?  As it stands right now, faith in your marriage is shared on some level: they're both a Trinitarian belief system within a liturgical framework.  However, if one is wanting to actively live by their faith tradition, marrying within that tradition is going to be the simplest and least troublesome option, sure enough.  If that didn't happen, or one changes mid-marriage, it can still be worked through depending on the disposition of each spouse.  It just may be more difficult (again, depending on the spouses).

The same with the other two items.  Everyone has different tastes and drives when it comes to physical attraction, as well as different expectations.  And I think our perception of beauty is actually more malleable than we realize.  Which is good, because we don't stay 25 forever.  Here I agree with Sharbel: good looks can never compensate for bad character.  Personality differences come down to expectations and charity.  For example, if an introvert and extrovert are willing to give each other what they need socially and occasionally be uncomfortable for the other's sake, there's no reason it can't work.  The compatibility is there, just obliquely, if that makes sense.

For best practices, look for all three things listed, but also do some soul searching about where you really stand on each and whether those priorities and expectations are realistic and godly.  We're all deeply flawed and are not going to iron everything out before we die.  It's more a question of whether we're willing to inch toward God and healing personally and maritally, and how willing we are to hold on when one or both spouses stalls out.


A side note on frivolous relationships: Rapha hit that nail on the head.  They're easier in the short term, though.  It might even be fun for a minute, sort of like candy tastes good and might satisfy hunger for a while, but offers no sustenance.  Same thing goes for eye candy.  It's not that having had frivolous or harmful relationships can't be repented from and worked past, but if one is in a position to avoid the mess altogether, it really and truly is worth the struggle even if it very much doesn't feel that way.


I pretty much agree with everything you wrote, 
so I am not quite sure exactly where you disagree.

In an ideal scenario, when both husband and wife are Orthodox, so to say equally yoked,
they can (and should) live their marriage in a way that they draw closer to God as a couple,
to make their marriage ever more the icon of Christ.
As Dominika pointed out earlier, theosis is not something confined to monastic life,
but also fully applies to married couples.

When I wrote that this "quickly boils down to" the pressure of everyday´s chores and conflicts,
I did not mean to indicate that those challenges were contrary to the above.
Just from personal experience - and I think everybody can relate to this on some level,
married or not - you often fail to see the bigger picture in the nitty gritty details.
You know it very well in theory, but in reality, you handle things very badly due to human weakness.

Probably I am missing something here, as I obviously do not really have an Orthodox view on this,
so please correct me if I am wrong.

Of course, the degrees to which a)-c) are fulfilled can change over time.
Your spouse (or you yourself) may convert, which can be a good or a bad thing.
b) will probably get less important over the years.
c) is the only thing where I do not really think you have a good chance for substantial change,
this is why I think there needs to be at least basic compatibility and sympathy from the very beginning - whatever that means in practice.
You gave the example of the fact that introverts can be very compatible with extroverts and I agree.

Concerning frivolous relationships: I am not exactly sure what you mean by that.
There is so much nonsense written about courtship vs. dating nowadays.
I think that not engaging in any inappropriate actions with your girlfriend should be understood anyways.
Apart from that, I do not see why you should not just enjoy the time together.
When you think about potential marriage every second you are dating someone, especially when you have not been dating for long,
you probably will not act natural anymore and start to cramp.



« Last Edit: May 08, 2018, 11:17:37 AM by Lepanto »
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Offline Ainnir

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Re: singles?
« Reply #621 on: May 08, 2018, 01:35:07 PM »
I see.  I'm glad to not have to disagree, then.  :D  Your original post sounded sort of flip, like one of the three would have to be completely sacrificed for the sake of the other two as a matter of course, and that idea is what I disagree with.

The frivolous relationships aside was more in response Dominika and Rapha's exchange.  I think ending up with fewer regrets is worth wrestling with one's natural inclinations, though it may well suck in the moment; I'm not making light of that burden.  I didn't have courtship vs. dating in mind at all.  The lines between appropriate and inappropriate as well as what is and isn't a good match become easily blurred under a variety of circumstances.  It was a call to keep one's wits about oneself because the alternatives are not worth it.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2018, 01:43:37 PM by Ainnir »
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Re: singles?
« Reply #622 on: May 08, 2018, 03:06:31 PM »
When I wrote that you always only get two out of the three a)-c), I wanted to stress in a joking manner how hard it is to find a good spouse, especially in Orthodox diaspora countries such as Poland or the US. Therefore, many have to settle for two out of those three and make the most of it.
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Re: singles?
« Reply #623 on: May 08, 2018, 03:10:48 PM »
Thanks Ainnir and Lepanto for beneficial posts.

When I wrote that you always only get two out of the three a)-c), I wanted to stress in a joking manner how hard it is to find a good spouse, especially in Orthodox diaspora countries such as Poland or the US. Therefore, many have to settle for two out of those three and make the most of it.
1. But it is possible - sure, there are a lot of mixed marriages, fullfiling only the two points, but there are also fulfilling the all 3.
2. Orthodox people in Poland are not diaspora, but cradles and actually Cyrylo-Methodian Chrisianity had been there before the Latin one ;) Edit: so it's better to say "Orthodox minority".
« Last Edit: May 08, 2018, 03:11:32 PM by Dominika »
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Re: singles?
« Reply #624 on: May 08, 2018, 04:22:46 PM »
"but cradles and actually Cyrylo-Methodian Chrisianity had been there before the Latin one"

Oh really.
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Offline Lepanto

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Re: singles?
« Reply #625 on: May 08, 2018, 04:37:12 PM »
"but cradles and actually Cyrylo-Methodian Chrisianity had been there before the Latin one"

Oh really.
Indeed. This is getting more and more off topic, but I would be interested to learn how the evangelization by Cyril and Method and their successors reached the area which is Poland today before Latin Christianity in general. I would have guessed that for example Irish monks where there even before Cyril and Method baptized the first Slavic people. But then, don't know that much about history unfortunately.
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Re: singles?
« Reply #626 on: May 08, 2018, 05:09:23 PM »
Why draw such a sharp distinction between Late Antique/Early Medieval Latin and Byzantine Christianity at all? Yes, the disrespect for local languages that got enshrined so early in Rome's sphere of influence is a real shame, but I doubt the theologies are that far apart as a whole at this point.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2018, 05:10:41 PM by Volnutt »
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Re: singles?
« Reply #627 on: May 08, 2018, 05:13:22 PM »
Why draw such a sharp distinction between Late Antique/Early Medieval Latin and Byzantine Christianity at all? Yes, the disrespect for local languages that got enshrined so early in Rome's sphere of influence is a real shame, but I doubt the theologies are that far apart as a whole at this point.

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Re: singles?
« Reply #628 on: June 08, 2018, 11:15:59 AM »
I've been in touch over a few months with a Polish Orthodox guy, being a convert, knowledgeable, handsome, but I'm "too liebral for him", despite the fact that I "attract him both physically and intelectually".
You make it sound like you are, to use an American expression, dodging a lot of bullets.
An update: I was talking with him yesterday; unfortunately, he eventually hasn't converted in Polish Orthodox Church - he had been preparing for thsi 2 years, but now he's goint to be re-baptised and received into Orthodoxy in an Old Calendarist Greek jurisdiction that started to gather ex-members of the POC (that are frustread by some bad things in our Church, plus think the mainstream Orthodoxy, especially POC, is too "ecumenical"), for now they don't have parish there, only in Slovakia - actually, it's an interesting thing for separate topic, but rather for private fora. He claims he wasn't aware that in Poland there is "another option" than POC but now he says he discover not fanatistm, but true Gospel. I'm sorry for him,a s he's good guy, but I have always impression in such cases - maybe I'm wrong? - that inlooking for the true Orthodoxy and faithfulness to the canons, they're loosing Christ in their mindset. Anyway, indeed, it would "be dodging a lot of bullets".


I've got invitation to wedding of next friend that's getting married in July. I'm happy for her. But I'm unhappy for me - I don't have a good candidate to go together. Well, at least at this wedding there will be one of my friends beyond the bride - last year I was at wedding that I knew well only the groom and his friends that were present at the reception were in pairs, so I went with a guy to whom I had said some time earlier that us as a couple couldn't work (he's not Orthodox, but Catholic, with some "loose" thinking about premarital sex, plus actually he doesn't attract me physically), and it was an error. But on the other hand, I had no other choice - my best friend that's male now lives abroad, I still have a few male aquitances that are not married yet, but they're not into parties or are able to make some troubles.
Normally I'd go with one of my female friends, but it's still not well perceived in Poland (it's always suspicious).
It's really a shame, that I don't have anybody even to go to a wedding reception, not even mention to have a candidate to have our own wedding reception.
A deacon from another city (actually, one of the biggest Polish cities, and there are 14 parishes, most of them have a few - 7? - thousands members) that's also a techaer offered me 2 weeks ago help to find a partner for this wedding. He's still not foudn anybody, he says it's difficult task. Probably because it's difficult to find somebody in the Polish Orthodox society that I don't know/he doesn't know me, and there are not so many Orthodox single males, in age 23-36 (I said him this age range as a perfect one). Of course, a partner for wedding doesnt' need to be Orthodox, but it means it'll be really difficult to find a good candidate to get married... :(
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Re: singles?
« Reply #629 on: June 16, 2018, 02:00:49 AM »
I've been in touch over a few months with a Polish Orthodox guy, being a convert, knowledgeable, handsome, but I'm "too liebral for him", despite the fact that I "attract him both physically and intelectually".
You make it sound like you are, to use an American expression, dodging a lot of bullets.
An update: I was talking with him yesterday; unfortunately, he eventually hasn't converted in Polish Orthodox Church - he had been preparing for thsi 2 years, but now he's goint to be re-baptised and received into Orthodoxy in an Old Calendarist Greek jurisdiction that started to gather ex-members of the POC (that are frustread by some bad things in our Church, plus think the mainstream Orthodoxy, especially POC, is too "ecumenical"), for now they don't have parish there, only in Slovakia - actually, it's an interesting thing for separate topic, but rather for private fora. He claims he wasn't aware that in Poland there is "another option" than POC but now he says he discover not fanatistm, but true Gospel. I'm sorry for him,a s he's good guy, but I have always impression in such cases - maybe I'm wrong? - that inlooking for the true Orthodoxy and faithfulness to the canons, they're loosing Christ in their mindset. Anyway, indeed, it would "be dodging a lot of bullets".


I've got invitation to wedding of next friend that's getting married in July. I'm happy for her. But I'm unhappy for me - I don't have a good candidate to go together. Well, at least at this wedding there will be one of my friends beyond the bride - last year I was at wedding that I knew well only the groom and his friends that were present at the reception were in pairs, so I went with a guy to whom I had said some time earlier that us as a couple couldn't work (he's not Orthodox, but Catholic, with some "loose" thinking about premarital sex, plus actually he doesn't attract me physically), and it was an error. But on the other hand, I had no other choice - my best friend that's male now lives abroad, I still have a few male aquitances that are not married yet, but they're not into parties or are able to make some troubles.
Normally I'd go with one of my female friends, but it's still not well perceived in Poland (it's always suspicious).
It's really a shame, that I don't have anybody even to go to a wedding reception, not even mention to have a candidate to have our own wedding reception.
A deacon from another city (actually, one of the biggest Polish cities, and there are 14 parishes, most of them have a few - 7? - thousands members) that's also a techaer offered me 2 weeks ago help to find a partner for this wedding. He's still not foudn anybody, he says it's difficult task. Probably because it's difficult to find somebody in the Polish Orthodox society that I don't know/he doesn't know me, and there are not so many Orthodox single males, in age 23-36 (I said him this age range as a perfect one). Of course, a partner for wedding doesnt' need to be Orthodox, but it means it'll be really difficult to find a good candidate to get married... :(

I really wish you the best of luck in this,  I will be praying for you.   I have to confess to having a bit of what one might call a “crush” on you, :-[ , but whereas I am at least nominally compliant with the attributes you listed, I think you deserve much more than a cantankerous, opinionated American computer geek. :x :P

Btw the Gdansk area I visited when I was 17; my mother and I walked down the beach from Sopot to Gydnia, where there were swans in the Baltic.  Does the POC have parishes there?   Later this summer I am planning on visiting Portugal with one of my friends who is of Lusitanian birth, but alas their church would have to go and schism from your Church, arghh.  :P

Seriously though I will be praying for you.  It’s a pity that one chap went into the Old Calendarist church as your description of him sounded like a nice fellow.  :(
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