Author Topic: What do Eastern European countries do that binds people?  (Read 1368 times)

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Offline Renarax

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What do Eastern European countries do that binds people?
« on: December 03, 2014, 10:49:16 AM »
Every country in eastern Europe is majority christian based (80%+)

 I Wonder why. What is it in their lives/ entertainment/ wealth/ traditions that make them enthusiastic about their faith as opposed to us in Canada and the states. Is it because of a lack of multiculturalism?  (Not a big fan)

Any ideas how us in the west can maybe revert to a christian society like romania? Movies? Games? Songs? Festivals? I think the faith in the west has vastly diminished in the past 50 years

Offline Cyrillic

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Re: What do Eastern European countries do that binds people?
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2014, 10:50:27 AM »
Any ideas how us in the west can maybe revert to a christian society like romania? Movies? Games? Songs? Festivals?

Poverty and suffering.
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Offline Didyma

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Re: What do Eastern European countries do that binds people?
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2014, 11:09:20 AM »
Any ideas how us in the west can maybe revert to a christian society like romania? Movies? Games? Songs? Festivals?

Poverty and suffering.

You know, that's probably mostly right.  There's almost always more than one factor with things like this, though.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: What do Eastern European countries do that binds people?
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2014, 12:20:29 PM »
Any ideas how us in the west can maybe revert to a christian society like romania? Movies? Games? Songs? Festivals?

Poverty and suffering.

You know, that's probably mostly right.  There's almost always more than one factor with things like this, though.
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Offline Alpo

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Re: What do Eastern European countries do that binds people?
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2014, 12:24:45 PM »
I Wonder why. What is it in their lives/ entertainment/ wealth/ traditions that make them enthusiastic about their faith as opposed to us in Canada and the states.

Nothing. AFAIK generally speaking they aren't enthusiastic about their faith.

Offline Renarax

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Re: What do Eastern European countries do that binds people?
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2014, 12:43:22 PM »
Come on Romanians aren't poor or suffering.  I mean I don't know but I doubt it

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: What do Eastern European countries do that binds people?
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2014, 12:53:43 PM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Romania

Quote
According to a September–October 2007 poll, with respect to church attendance there are four categories in Romania (percentages relative to general population): 38% go to church several times a month or more (of which 7% go weekly or more often), 20% go to church on the average monthly, 33% go only one or two times a year, and 7% don't attend church.

By contrast:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_United_States#Attendance

Quote
In 2006, an online Harris Poll (they stated that the magnitude of errors cannot be estimated due to sampling errors, non-response,etc.; 2,010 U.S. adults were surveyed)[96] found that 26% of those surveyed attended religious services "every week or more often", 9% went "once or twice a month", 21% went "a few times a year", 3% went "once a year", 22% went "less than once a year", and 18% never attend religious services.
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Offline Orest

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Re: What do Eastern European countries do that binds people?
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2014, 01:07:26 PM »
Every country in eastern Europe is majority christian based (80%+)

 I Wonder why. What is it in their lives/ entertainment/ wealth/ traditions that make them enthusiastic about their faith as opposed to us in Canada and the states. Is it because of a lack of multiculturalism?  (Not a big fan)

Most East European countries historically were multicutlural.  There were Germans everywhere for examples ( Volksdeutsche).
 The Jews went to Eastern Europe in large numbers when they were expelled from Western Europe.  Lots of people moved in the land of thre Crimean Tartars.  You can find pockets of Armenians & their churches in Eastern Europe.  Some Greeks too.  The first person I met in Romania when i got off the train was a Greek, from a Phanariotes background.  Every Eastern European country has minorities and some with sizeable minorities.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: What do Eastern European countries do that binds people?
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2014, 02:08:28 PM »
Every country in eastern Europe is majority christian based (80%+)

 I Wonder why. What is it in their lives/ entertainment/ wealth/ traditions that make them enthusiastic about their faith as opposed to us in Canada and the states. Is it because of a lack of multiculturalism?  (Not a big fan)

Any ideas how us in the west can maybe revert to a christian society like romania? Movies? Games? Songs? Festivals? I think the faith in the west has vastly diminished in the past 50 years


You could look anywhere in the world for contrast with the West. Eastern Europe is not more grounded in an identity than India, for example. Only places Western or perhaps places particularly devastated by Western colonialism are exceptions to a human trend. The real question, then, is how the West managed to poison and dismember the human fact of culture, and what this anti-culture means for her inhabitants health and future, and whether there is to be a recovery and if so in what form it will arise ...
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Re: What do Eastern European countries do that binds people?
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2014, 03:29:21 PM »
Come on Romanians aren't poor or suffering.  I mean I don't know but I doubt it

Within Bucharest, you will still find people poor and suffering as in every major city.  Go beyond into the countryside and you will find some villages that have not really changed, where people are poor and suffering.
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Re: What do Eastern European countries do that binds people?
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2014, 03:48:44 PM »
Every country in eastern Europe is majority christian based (80%+)

 I Wonder why. What is it in their lives/ entertainment/ wealth/ traditions that make them enthusiastic about their faith as opposed to us in Canada and the states. Is it because of a lack of multiculturalism?  (Not a big fan)

Any ideas how us in the west can maybe revert to a christian society like romania? Movies? Games? Songs? Festivals? I think the faith in the west has vastly diminished in the past 50 years

I don't think you know what you're talking about.
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Offline Alpo

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Re: What do Eastern European countries do that binds people?
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2014, 04:18:35 PM »
There were Germans everywhere for examples ( Volksdeutsche).

Never heard of this before. Did the WWII change that?

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: What do Eastern European countries do that binds people?
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2014, 04:24:47 PM »
Come on Romanians aren't poor or suffering.  I mean I don't know but I doubt it

Hum. Well, I've been doing a good deal of reading about Romania -- book-length studies among them -- and we do have Romanians in our parish. (Of course I must defer to forum-members from Romania, but) yes, there is poverty and suffering there. Just because the West is heavily exploiting and promoting a place does not make it a paradise (in fact I would suggest the opposite is usually true).
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: What do Eastern European countries do that binds people?
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2014, 04:26:15 PM »
There were Germans everywhere for examples ( Volksdeutsche).

Never heard of this before. Did the WWII change that?

"Everywhere" -- I don't know what Orest means by that -- but there've always been small tightly-knit enclaves of Germans in the major cities of eastern Europe. I assume the genesis was in trade.
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Offline Orest

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Re: What do Eastern European countries do that binds people?
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2014, 04:29:02 PM »
There were Germans everywhere for examples ( Volksdeutsche).

Never heard of this before. Did the WWII change that?
Yes.  It is amazing when you visit some onscure small town & see the remains of a former German church or a German cemetery.  Transylvania, Bukovyna, Galicia, Volyn, Serbia, Bohemia, etc.,
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Offline Alpo

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Re: What do Eastern European countries do that binds people?
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2014, 04:37:41 PM »
There were Germans everywhere for examples ( Volksdeutsche).

Never heard of this before. Did the WWII change that?
Yes.  It is amazing when you visit some onscure small town & see the remains of a former German church or a German cemetery.  Transylvania, Bukovyna, Galicia, Volyn, Serbia, Bohemia, etc.,
Ever seen the movie "I served the King of England"  ?   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Served_the_King_of_England

Never heard of the movie either.

I'm starting to think that the worst tragedy of the WWII was not the sheer amount of people died before and during the war but the cultural destruction it caused to the whole Europe. I wonder how Europe would look like without the Nazis.

Offline Cyrillic

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Re: What do Eastern European countries do that binds people?
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2014, 05:24:12 PM »
but the cultural destruction it caused to the whole Europe. I wonder how Europe would look like without the Nazis.

More like the 19th century. Minorities, especially in the Balkans, would cause wars. The colonial empires might have progressed into commonwealths or survived longer than they did. Alliances would have divided the continent to maintain a balance of power, and every 15-20 year we might see a system failure and a big war.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 05:41:48 PM by Cyrillic »
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: What do Eastern European countries do that binds people?
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2014, 05:39:04 PM »
Nazism was more a symptom than a cause. Nor were they the only, or the most important symptom.

With the rise of the nation-state in 1500s, the West was essentially doomed to a course similar to the history we know.
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Offline Alpo

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Re: What do Eastern European countries do that binds people?
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2014, 03:32:15 PM »
but the cultural destruction it caused to the whole Europe. I wonder how Europe would look like without the Nazis.

More like the 19th century. Minorities, especially in the Balkans, would cause wars.

Not necessarily. Last time we had a civil war was because of Communists. Never had problems with Tatars, Gypsies, Russians, Swedish-speaking folks, the Orthodox or any other minority.

Offline Cyrillic

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Re: What do Eastern European countries do that binds people?
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2014, 03:36:31 PM »
but the cultural destruction it caused to the whole Europe. I wonder how Europe would look like without the Nazis.

More like the 19th century. Minorities, especially in the Balkans, would cause wars.

Not necessarily. Last time we had a civil war was because of Communists. Never had problems with Tatars, Gypsies, Russians, Swedish-speaking folks, the Orthodox or any other minority.

Minorities have often caused wars between states.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2014, 03:37:02 PM by Cyrillic »
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: What do Eastern European countries do that binds people?
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2014, 03:51:51 PM »
Don't vandalize the man's beautiful ideologies with facts, Alpo.
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Offline Cyrillic

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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: What do Eastern European countries do that binds people?
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2014, 04:24:57 PM »
You missed WWII and the Jews. ::) Oh wait, that was minorities troubling the twentieth century.

At any rate, nobody's denying that probably some minority (a real minority, not the Greeks in Greece, gosh) at sometime schemed to begin a nineteenth-century war. The objection here is to your characterizing the century's wars that way (not to mention implicitly upholding the Nazis as progress therefrom).
« Last Edit: December 04, 2014, 04:25:54 PM by Porter ODoran »
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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: What do Eastern European countries do that binds people?
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2014, 04:25:39 PM »
You missed WWII and the Jews. ::)

Minorities caused WWII. Does the Danzig corridor ring bells?
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: What do Eastern European countries do that binds people?
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2014, 04:26:35 PM »
You missed WWII and the Jews. ::)

Minorities caused WWII. Does the Danzig corridor ring bells?

I do hear bells amid those bats in your belfry.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2014, 04:27:22 PM by Porter ODoran »
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Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity. --Climacus

Offline Cyrillic

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Re: What do Eastern European countries do that binds people?
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2014, 04:28:35 PM »
(not to mention implicitly upholding the Nazis as progress therefrom).

In a certain sense they did cause progress by being so horrible that we never wanted another such war on the old continent. Since 1945 there has been no more major war on the continent.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2014, 04:29:06 PM by Cyrillic »
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Offline Jonathan Gress

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Re: What do Eastern European countries do that binds people?
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2014, 04:45:46 PM »
There were Germans everywhere for examples ( Volksdeutsche).

Never heard of this before. Did the WWII change that?
Yes.  It is amazing when you visit some onscure small town & see the remains of a former German church or a German cemetery.  Transylvania, Bukovyna, Galicia, Volyn, Serbia, Bohemia, etc.,
Ever seen the movie "I served the King of England"  ?   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Served_the_King_of_England

Yes the Transylvanian Saxons are an interesting bunch. Curiously, they constitute one of the few ethnic German minorities who were not expelled from Eastern Europe after WWII. The Romanian communists let them stick around and most of them didn't get out till after the Iron Curtain fell. There's a few still around, including the President-elect.

Offline LenInSebastopol

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Re: What do Eastern European countries do that binds people?
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2014, 05:26:08 PM »
Don't vandalize the man's beautiful ideologies with facts, Alpo.

No, there are absolutely no facts to support that minorities in Europe caused wars.

Niall Ferguson finds RAILROADS were major facts that kicked off WWI and preceding events. Seems to make sense and is applicable to my religion!
I picture 1500 years of some families growing in the same town/hamlet/hillside with their religion. The word "parochial" is apropos. One could not travel more than 20 miles, if lucky, from one's family village.
What with highwaymen, lions & tigers & bears, oh my! Anyway, along comes trains that move safely and QUICKLY over vast distances and coincidently populations soar, a mass of "intermarriage" in the big cities as people flee the farm belts....oh, what a glorious picture The War of the World - Twentieth-Century Conflict and the Descent of the West paints.
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Offline Skydive

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Re: What do Eastern European countries do that binds people?
« Reply #28 on: December 24, 2014, 01:32:40 AM »
Every country in eastern Europe is majority christian based (80%+)

 I Wonder why. What is it in their lives/ entertainment/ wealth/ traditions that make them enthusiastic about their faith as opposed to us in Canada and the states. Is it because of a lack of multiculturalism?  (Not a big fan)

Any ideas how us in the west can maybe revert to a christian society like romania? Movies? Games? Songs? Festivals? I think the faith in the west has vastly diminished in the past 50 years

Impossible. You have to have the sacred soul as a romanian, that is our cultural trait, we come from a very old unique, mystique, spiritual people, that is the quality of our soul.
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Offline Jonathan Gress

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Re: What do Eastern European countries do that binds people?
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2015, 12:36:57 PM »
The same was said about the Russians. I think Romania has benefited from having lived under a somewhat less fanatically anti-clerical Communist regime than the Soviet Union, and for a shorter amount of time. But it's interesting that the Romanians also boast the largest Old Calendarist church, at least going by numbers.

Offline Pravoslavac

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Re: What do Eastern European countries do that binds people?
« Reply #30 on: February 19, 2015, 07:34:21 AM »
Because we are poor as hell and often help each other avoiding genocide invasions, so we hang out a lot. LOL
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Re: What do Eastern European countries do that binds people?
« Reply #31 on: February 19, 2015, 08:57:07 AM »
They have authoritarian social structures of power that force people who don't believe to pretend they are Christians at least nominally. That creates a silent hate from those who don't believe and that from time to time emerges as atheist rebellion or government. When atheist governments take over, you will either join them or have to mingle among Christian resistance who will protect you. You will either pretend you are one of them, "convert" due to peer pressure, or, God blessing, truly convert.

The West let you spend your money and time in whatever you want and most people choose the garbage that is in our hearts. Those weaklings without self-control and without any understanding of their own human nature and the mercy of God, hate the West for not being a bully father who forces them to act as a Christian and resent it. In their pulsion of death and thinly disguised masochism they even would like to see the land and civilization of their fathers destroyed by some holy bully who would put them in holy chains, 50 Shades of Holy Empire style: they only believe someone loves and cares about them if this someone is violent and humiliates them putting them in their "right place". And those who would not accept it are arrogant or prideful, because they don't want to be tied or beaten into "sainthood".
« Last Edit: February 19, 2015, 09:05:58 AM by Fabio Leite »
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Offline LenInSebastopol

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Re: What do Eastern European countries do that binds people?
« Reply #32 on: February 19, 2015, 09:23:37 AM »
Whoa, Fabio! I did not read the book nor see the movie either, but I think your analysis is insightful.

Pravoslavac, when ever we meet, please remind me to slap you hard upside the head. lol
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Offline Pravoslavac

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Re: What do Eastern European countries do that binds people?
« Reply #33 on: February 19, 2015, 09:56:16 AM »
Whoa, Fabio! I did not read the book nor see the movie either, but I think your analysis is insightful.

Pravoslavac, when ever we meet, please remind me to slap you hard upside the head. lol

lol why?
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Offline LenInSebastopol

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Re: What do Eastern European countries do that binds people?
« Reply #34 on: February 19, 2015, 10:01:07 AM »
Whoa, Fabio! I did not read the book nor see the movie either, but I think your analysis is insightful.

Pravoslavac, when ever we meet, please remind me to slap you hard upside the head. lol

lol why?
Ah, the "why" question.....just never ends, that one.
Well, why not?
You evidently have no feelings so it would not hurt, nor clues in your posts, nor read even read them.
So, again, why not?
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Offline Pravoslavac

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Re: What do Eastern European countries do that binds people?
« Reply #35 on: February 19, 2015, 10:10:52 AM »
Whoa, Fabio! I did not read the book nor see the movie either, but I think your analysis is insightful.

Pravoslavac, when ever we meet, please remind me to slap you hard upside the head. lol

lol why?
Ah, the "why" question.....just never ends, that one.
Well, why not?
You evidently have no feelings so it would not hurt, nor clues in your posts, nor read even read them.
So, again, why not?

I bag your pardon. I do have feelings, fear and greed. lol
« Last Edit: February 19, 2015, 10:11:43 AM by Pravoslavac »
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Re: What do Eastern European countries do that binds people?
« Reply #36 on: February 19, 2015, 10:14:32 AM »
Then don't meet. Problem solved.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: What do Eastern European countries do that binds people?
« Reply #37 on: February 19, 2015, 03:01:38 PM »
They have authoritarian social structures of power that force people who don't believe to pretend they are Christians at least nominally. That creates a silent hate from those who don't believe and that from time to time emerges as atheist rebellion or government. When atheist governments take over, you will either join them or have to mingle among Christian resistance who will protect you. You will either pretend you are one of them, "convert" due to peer pressure, or, God blessing, truly convert.

The West let you spend your money and time in whatever you want and most people choose the garbage that is in our hearts. Those weaklings without self-control and without any understanding of their own human nature and the mercy of God, hate the West for not being a bully father who forces them to act as a Christian and resent it. In their pulsion of death and thinly disguised masochism they even would like to see the land and civilization of their fathers destroyed by some holy bully who would put them in holy chains, 50 Shades of Holy Empire style: they only believe someone loves and cares about them if this someone is violent and humiliates them putting them in their "right place". And those who would not accept it are arrogant or prideful, because they don't want to be tied or beaten into "sainthood".

There is so much wrong with all this, but mostly because it wrongs one's fellowman (I won't point out how, when one does this, one eventually also wrongs oneself). I've bolded the part that's not purely vitriol -- the part that thinks itself a momentary exhalation of reasonableness -- because in fact it's the linchpin of the problem. -- So your fellowman have hearts full of garbage? And yet, by clever "Western" arrangement, there is nobody to help them with this shocking malady and they prove by their money they themselves are fully to blame. While this might bring satisfaction to you, the member of mankind miraculously without garbage in his heart, it does nothing whatever to solve the problems of mankind. But the situation is more dire. What we see in this model, which you've failed to point out, is that the malady is a spreading one: Those whom you can dismiss as having garbage for hearts exponentially grow with each generation. Therefore, not only is your clever arrangement doing nothing whatever to aid sinners but it seems instead to be actively worsening the problem -- and at this point a canny observer should wonder if it is not itself the problem and the problem's cause.

An ideology that is of no use other than to establish the superiority of the ideologist is pernicious.

If you are feeling any remorse or doubt, by now, please remember that one can turn to the Fathers -- remember, that is, that it is not as tho the problems of mankind are insoluble and that we must cast about among mere theories and political ideas.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2015, 03:03:42 PM by Porter ODoran »
In love did God create the world; in love does he guide it ...; in love is he going wondrously to transform it. --Abba Isaac

Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity. --Climacus