Author Topic: Parsing Sarpedon  (Read 410 times)

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Offline William T

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Parsing Sarpedon
« on: July 27, 2016, 02:30:13 AM »
Can anybody parse this name?  Is it used on anybody other than two mythological heroes (who don't exactly have Greek roots, and who sometimes get combined as one person)?
“Behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, Who is Christ the Lord."

"And The Word became flesh and tabernacled among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth"

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Re: Parsing Sarpedon
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2016, 05:10:44 AM »
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Offline William T

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Re: Parsing Sarpedon
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2016, 09:46:18 AM »
The article states that it was common in ancient Greece / /Rome, so I guess if I want to trust wikiedia that might answer the second part of my quesstion, especially since it mentioned that Cato had a teacher with the name.  I don't know if I've ever seen the name used outside of the two main myths (never heard of the son of Poseidon myth). 

But I still don't see what the name means.  It says the origins of the name is Ancient Greek, but is that all that can be said about the etymology?
“Behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, Who is Christ the Lord."

"And The Word became flesh and tabernacled among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth"

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Re: Parsing Sarpedon
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2016, 10:47:03 AM »
Interesting etymological theory here.
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Offline Apostolos

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Re: Parsing Sarpedon
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2016, 10:53:35 AM »
Another theory is that the name Σαρπηδών is the hellenised version of the name of the Luwian hero-king Tarhunta-Radu > Tarhundaradus > Σαρπηδών Sarpēdṓn.
The first component Tarhunda- is the combinatory form of the name of the Luwian chief god (comparable to the Greek Zeus) Tarhun, the god of storm.
Luwians were IE people, spoke an IE language related to Hittite. 
Ἦχος Βαρύς

Ὁπλιτικῆς φάλαγγος οἰκεῖον μέλος
ὁ τοῦ βάρους σὺ κλῆσιν εἰληφῶς φέρεις.
Ἧχον τὸν ἁπλοῦν τὸν βάρους ἐπώνυμον
ὁ τοὺς λογισμοὺς ἐν βοαῖς μισῶν φιλεῖ.
Ἀνδρῶν δὲ ἄσμα δευτερότριτε βρέμεις.
Ὧν ποικίλος δὲ τοὺς ἁπλούς ἔχεις φίλους.

Offline William T

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Re: Parsing Sarpedon
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2016, 11:57:56 AM »
Interesting.  I figured Minos wasn't a Greek name, but this made me look it up to see what it meant.  I guess the name means "king", if so that is possibly what Sarpedon means as well.  I always thought Belleraphontes and Rhadamanthus were Greek words that could be parsed, but I just didn't have the skill level to do it  but I guess Rhadamanthus is an unknown pre Greek word, and there is some speculation that Belleraphontes may have Luwian origins in the name and not Greek (Glaukos and Chimera are Greek words).

Looking at the name Tarhunta - Radu (or any name, like Piyama Radu), I wonder if Rhadamthus is in that name somewhere?
« Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 12:16:25 PM by William T »
“Behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, Who is Christ the Lord."

"And The Word became flesh and tabernacled among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth"

Offline William T

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Re: Parsing Sarpedon
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2016, 12:27:07 PM »
Also:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burunucu

I know nothing of the ancient village, but according to wikipedia it existed at some point
“Behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, Who is Christ the Lord."

"And The Word became flesh and tabernacled among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth"

Offline Apostolos

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Re: Parsing Sarpedon
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2016, 02:17:03 PM »
Interesting.  I figured Minos wasn't a Greek name, but this made me look it up to see what it meant.  I guess the name means "king", if so that is possibly what Sarpedon means as well.  I always thought Belleraphontes and Rhadamanthus were Greek words that could be parsed, but I just didn't have the skill level to do it  but I guess Rhadamanthus is an unknown pre Greek word...
Ῥαδάμανθυς (blossoming flower) has indeed partly obsure etymology, it's the masculine of the feminine name Ῥαδαμάνθη = ῥάδαμνος (branch, twig, shoot) a possibly pre-Greek word + ἄνθος (flower), cognate with the Armenian word for field, and, or the Sanskrit andhas, sprout of the soma plant (definitely of IE substrate).
...and there is some speculation that Belleraphontes may have Luwian origins in the name and not Greek (Glaukos and Chimera are Greek words).
Well there's also the Hellenosemitic substrate hypothesis, that it's a Hellenosemitic word with first component the name of the god Bel (short of Baal), but rest assured it too is Greek, Βελλεροφόντης is the slayer of Bellerus, the tyrant of Corinth = Βέλλερος (Bellerus, the name of the Corinthian tyrant) + second element -φόντης (killer, slayer) from φόνος (manslaughter, murder)
« Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 02:17:48 PM by Apostolos »
Ἦχος Βαρύς

Ὁπλιτικῆς φάλαγγος οἰκεῖον μέλος
ὁ τοῦ βάρους σὺ κλῆσιν εἰληφῶς φέρεις.
Ἧχον τὸν ἁπλοῦν τὸν βάρους ἐπώνυμον
ὁ τοὺς λογισμοὺς ἐν βοαῖς μισῶν φιλεῖ.
Ἀνδρῶν δὲ ἄσμα δευτερότριτε βρέμεις.
Ὧν ποικίλος δὲ τοὺς ἁπλούς ἔχεις φίλους.

Offline William T

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Re: Parsing Sarpedon
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2016, 05:24:31 PM »
Interesting.  I figured Minos wasn't a Greek name, but this made me look it up to see what it meant.  I guess the name means "king", if so that is possibly what Sarpedon means as well.  I always thought Belleraphontes and Rhadamanthus were Greek words that could be parsed, but I just didn't have the skill level to do it  but I guess Rhadamanthus is an unknown pre Greek word...
Ῥαδάμανθυς (blossoming flower) has indeed partly obsure etymology, it's the masculine of the feminine name Ῥαδαμάνθη = ῥάδαμνος (branch, twig, shoot) a possibly pre-Greek word + ἄνθος (flower), cognate with the Armenian word for field, and, or the Sanskrit andhas, sprout of the soma plant (definitely of IE substrate).
...and there is some speculation that Belleraphontes may have Luwian origins in the name and not Greek (Glaukos and Chimera are Greek words).
Well there's also the Hellenosemitic substrate hypothesis, that it's a Hellenosemitic word with first component the name of the god Bel (short of Baal), but rest assured it too is Greek, Βελλεροφόντης is the slayer of Bellerus, the tyrant of Corinth = Βέλλερος (Bellerus, the name of the Corinthian tyrant) + second element -φόντης (killer, slayer) from φόνος (manslaughter, murder)


wow, youre amazing.  Do you know if most main Homeric names from inner Anatolia have possible Semetic / Hittite names?  Asios for example? Is the name Asia then an actual Asian name?  Memnon isn't Greek is it?  Sorry if this bothers you, I'm just fawning over your skill set.

Is there any book or paper you or Archane can recommend on this, you can't buy single JSTOR articles can you?
« Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 05:27:20 PM by William T »
“Behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, Who is Christ the Lord."

"And The Word became flesh and tabernacled among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth"

Online Arachne

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Re: Parsing Sarpedon
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2016, 07:06:12 PM »
Is there any book or paper you or Archane can recommend on this, you can't buy single JSTOR articles can you?

You can find the particular article on Academia.edu (readable preview, just create a free account to download).
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Offline Apostolos

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Re: Parsing Sarpedon
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2016, 06:30:59 AM »
Do you know if most main Homeric names from inner Anatolia have possible Semetic / Hittite names?  Asios for example? Is the name Asia then an actual Asian name?
The general consensus is that the name probably derives from an Anatolian (i.e. Hittite, Palaic, Luwian), Akkadian and/or Assyrian word for the East, or even from the Sanskrit उष uśā which means aurora, dawn, East (the Sanskrit hypothesis is far fetched perhaps)
Memnon isn't Greek is it?  Sorry if this bothers you, I'm just fawning over your skill set.
I'm not sure about the name of the Ethiopian king (perhaps it's the hellenised version of an Ethiopian name) but Μέμνων (the stable one, a man who stands fast in battle) is definitely Greek, it comes from the verb μένω > *μένμων > μέμνων (with adjacent metathesis -νμ- > -μν- which is easier to pronounce)
Ἦχος Βαρύς

Ὁπλιτικῆς φάλαγγος οἰκεῖον μέλος
ὁ τοῦ βάρους σὺ κλῆσιν εἰληφῶς φέρεις.
Ἧχον τὸν ἁπλοῦν τὸν βάρους ἐπώνυμον
ὁ τοὺς λογισμοὺς ἐν βοαῖς μισῶν φιλεῖ.
Ἀνδρῶν δὲ ἄσμα δευτερότριτε βρέμεις.
Ὧν ποικίλος δὲ τοὺς ἁπλούς ἔχεις φίλους.