Author Topic: To learn greek or russian first?  (Read 405 times)

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Offline benjohn146

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To learn greek or russian first?
« on: July 27, 2016, 08:52:38 PM »
Good day to all.

I am interested in learning these two languages eventually. I was just wondering if one would be easier than the other to learn first and/or help to learn the second one.

Thank you for your advice.
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Offline Onesimus

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Re: To learn greek or russian first?
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2016, 08:55:16 PM »
Greek. 

Benefits.

1) easier (Imo)

2). You can read the bible more readily in its original language and primary works of theology from the early church.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: To learn greek or russian first?
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2016, 09:09:45 PM »
Good day to all.

I am interested in learning these two languages eventually. I was just wondering if one would be easier than the other to learn first and/or help to learn the second one.

Thank you for your advice.

The two languages are in no way closely related, so I don't think learning either would help you learn the other (except maybe in the sense that learning a first foreign language emboldens one to learn another). Yet, on the other hand, if you are learning them for liturgical purposes, then the Greek would in fact be the one to learn first as its church-related terms are found often in the language of the daughter-church.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 09:09:58 PM by Porter ODoran »
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: To learn greek or russian first?
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2016, 09:24:52 PM »
Greek. 

Benefits.

1) easier (Imo)

2). You can read the bible more readily in its original language and primary works of theology from the early church.
+1


However, in another hand, there's one Russian you'll have to learn, while you may have to deal with diglossia if you're interested both in chatting with Greeks/reading modern Greek literature and reading the Bible/understanding liturgical language.
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Offline Onesimus

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Re: To learn greek or russian first?
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2016, 09:59:07 PM »
Greek. 

Benefits.

1) easier (Imo)

2). You can read the bible more readily in its original language and primary works of theology from the early church.
+1


However, in another hand, there's one Russian you'll have to learn, while you may have to deal with diglossia if you're interested both in chatting with Greeks/reading modern Greek literature and reading the Bible/understanding liturgical language.

One should also be careful how they learn Greek.   For example, I initially took Koine Greek in an Evangelical Seminary.   This is a horrible process.  It relies on the Erasmian system (Western analytics) which basically ruins the language, ignores pronunciation (and changes it), etc.   Learning modern Greek from a native speaker would be a good start.   While one would need to then learn Koine to read in original languages, that process is rather easy in my estimation.   Once you get down the changes that have occurred over time - one is generally in a good position to study primary sources in Koine on a rudimentary level.   If you have not done so already, I'd suggest memorizing the Lord's Prayer in Greek, the Trisagion prayer and following along with the Greek during Liturgy (if done and if your Liturgical books show Greek alongside English).   

If one is inclined to go to Seminary at Holy Cross - you are required to study / learn both Koine and Modern Greek.   The U.S. State Departments program of self-study for modern Greek worked through along with a native speaker used to teaching is a good process.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: To learn greek or russian first?
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2016, 10:03:16 PM »
Greek. 

Benefits.

1) easier (Imo)

2). You can read the bible more readily in its original language and primary works of theology from the early church.
+1


However, in another hand, there's one Russian you'll have to learn, while you may have to deal with diglossia if you're interested both in chatting with Greeks/reading modern Greek literature and reading the Bible/understanding liturgical language.

Is this really accurate? Is Church Slavonic "one" language with modern Russian?
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: To learn greek or russian first?
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2016, 10:13:50 PM »
Greek. 

Benefits.

1) easier (Imo)

2). You can read the bible more readily in its original language and primary works of theology from the early church.
+1


However, in another hand, there's one Russian you'll have to learn, while you may have to deal with diglossia if you're interested both in chatting with Greeks/reading modern Greek literature and reading the Bible/understanding liturgical language.

Is this really accurate? Is Church Slavonic "one" language with modern Russian?
Far from it, but he's not asking about Church Slavonic, only Russian, so I assumed he doesn't intend to read Slavic liturgical texts. Church Slavonic and Russian are necessarily counted as two languages, while Koiné and Dimotiki are put under umbrella term "Greek".
« Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 10:14:50 PM by RaphaCam »
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: To learn greek or russian first?
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2016, 10:18:43 PM »
Greek. 

Benefits.

1) easier (Imo)

2). You can read the bible more readily in its original language and primary works of theology from the early church.

+1.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: To learn greek or russian first?
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2016, 10:32:03 PM »
Greek. 

Benefits.

1) easier (Imo)

2). You can read the bible more readily in its original language and primary works of theology from the early church.
+1


However, in another hand, there's one Russian you'll have to learn, while you may have to deal with diglossia if you're interested both in chatting with Greeks/reading modern Greek literature and reading the Bible/understanding liturgical language.

Is this really accurate? Is Church Slavonic "one" language with modern Russian?
Far from it, but he's not asking about Church Slavonic, only Russian, so I assumed he doesn't intend to read Slavic liturgical texts. Church Slavonic and Russian are necessarily counted as two languages, while Koiné and Dimotiki are put under umbrella term "Greek".

Okay. Your post was talking about liturgical vs. modern Greek; and the parallel in Slavic experience would be liturgical Slavonic vs. Russian. So I think this context moots your advice.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: To learn greek or russian first?
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2016, 11:26:59 PM »
Not enough info in the first post. This is why each person posting assumes they know why the OP wants to learn them.


Why do you want to learn these?

Motivation matters more about which you will find likable and manageable.

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Offline benjohn146

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Re: To learn greek or russian first?
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2016, 09:58:02 AM »
Not enough info in the first post. This is why each person posting assumes they know why the OP wants to learn them.


Why do you want to learn these?

Motivation matters more about which you will find likable and manageable.

Here are my reasons in order:

1. Personal knowledge/culture
2. Communicating with my fellow parishioners that are limited in speaking either French or English
3. To read material on the Faith that hasn't been translated in either French or English
4. Liturgical understanding
5. Eventually doing some pilgrimages on Holy sites
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Offline Dominika

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Re: To learn greek or russian first?
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2016, 10:15:27 AM »
Not enough info in the first post. This is why each person posting assumes they know why the OP wants to learn them.


Why do you want to learn these?

Motivation matters more about which you will find likable and manageable.

Here are my reasons in order:

1. Personal knowledge/culture
2. Communicating with my fellow parishioners that are limited in speaking either French or English
3. To read material on the Faith that hasn't been translated in either French or English
4. Liturgical understanding
5. Eventually doing some pilgrimages on Holy sites

So, Greek. Especially for the 4th point (and the 1st one, looking at your jurisdiction).

It also depends, in which "type" of Orthodoxy you're interested, and what kind of articles and which approach to certain things you'd like to read.

To read Russian Orthodox articles, you have to get know some Church Slavonic terminology.
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Offline Gamliel

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Re: To learn greek or russian first?
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2016, 10:19:17 AM »
^True.  It appears the OP is in a Greek Orthodox Church, but it depends on what his goals are.

Offline benjohn146

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Re: To learn greek or russian first?
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2016, 10:30:25 AM »
^True.  It appears the OP is in a Greek Orthodox Church, but it depends on what his goals are.

To have an overall view of the Orthodox Church through its "two main churches" i.e. Greek and Russian Churches.

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Offline Arachne

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Re: To learn greek or russian first?
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2016, 10:45:39 AM »
Greek has influenced modern European languages far more than Russian, so stuff will seem/sound familiar (you may not think there will be much there, but once you start studying, you'll notice more and more) and you'll have a bit of a head start. Familiarising yourself with the alphabet can help with Cyrillic script later.

You can download an audio NT read by a native Greek here. Also, a few still-usable free textbooks here.
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Offline Gamliel

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Re: To learn greek or russian first?
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2016, 10:47:33 AM »
^True.  It appears the OP is in a Greek Orthodox Church, but it depends on what his goals are.

To have an overall view of the Orthodox Church through its "two main churches" i.e. Greek and Russian Churches.


In that case, I would lean toward learning Greek first, but you may even want to speak with Greek and Russian language teachers if you have the opportunity to speak with any.

Offline mike

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Re: To learn greek or russian first?
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2016, 11:01:32 AM »
Greek has influenced modern European languages far more than Russian,

Really? Apart from some loans in science terminology?

On the other hand Russian is a language related to the dozens of others (while Greek to 0) and it, judging aside, is currently having a strong influence over 2 or 3 of them (and probably a dozen of more languages not related to Russian).
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Re: To learn greek or russian first?
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2016, 11:08:21 AM »
Greek has influenced modern European languages far more than Russian,

Really? Apart from some loans in science terminology?

On the other hand Russian is a language related to the dozens of others (while Greek to 0) and it, judging aside, is currently having a strong influence over 2 or 3 of them (and probably a dozen of more languages not related to Russian).

Yes, really. The OP's native tongue is French. He is significantly more likely to encounter Greek elements in what he comes into contact with, than Russian ones.
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Offline Asteriktos

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Re: To learn greek or russian first?
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2016, 11:22:49 AM »
Assuming you are a native English speaker...

K. Greek --> B. Greek --> M. Greek --> C. Greek --> French --> C. Latin --> V. Latin --> E. Latin --> German --> Hebrew --> Aramaic --> Syriac --> Coptic --> Ge'ez --> Arabic --> Russian --> Serbian --> Romanian --> Bulgarian --> Linear B --> Italian --> C. Mayan --> Portuguese --> Spanish --> British

(some people switch Hebrew and Aramaic)
« Last Edit: July 28, 2016, 11:23:16 AM by Asteriktos »

Offline benjohn146

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Re: To learn greek or russian first?
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2016, 11:39:24 AM »
Assuming you are a native English speaker...

K. Greek --> B. Greek --> M. Greek --> C. Greek --> French --> C. Latin --> V. Latin --> E. Latin --> German --> Hebrew --> Aramaic --> Syriac --> Coptic --> Ge'ez --> Arabic --> Russian --> Serbian --> Romanian --> Bulgarian --> Linear B --> Italian --> C. Mayan --> Portuguese --> Spanish --> British

(some people switch Hebrew and Aramaic)

I am sorry, I beg your pardon but I don't get what you are trying to picture here. I am a native French speaker too.
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