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Author Topic: Re: Comments on OO Mitres  (Read 3857 times) Average Rating: 0
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stashko
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« on: July 07, 2010, 12:57:33 PM »

This was split off from a discussion on OO altars:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,28033.new.html#new

Salpy
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The Altars Sure Look Latin, Including the Papal Looking Hats Miters or the way they cross themselves left to right,,,I  don't like any of those Looks...No Unity i say until All Latin Influences are discarded thrown out.... Grin


I suspect....
When the Greeks and the Armenians have a Scuffle at the Church of the Resurrection It Because of the Papal Looking Hats Miters..... Grin

I could Never Attend a Armenian Church if A Bishop Was Present ,The Urge would be to great to Flick the Papal Miter Off And Stomp On it..... Grin
« Last Edit: July 07, 2010, 06:54:22 PM by Salpy » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2010, 01:09:23 PM »

The Altars Sure Look Latin, Including the Papal Looking Hats Miters or the way they cross themselves left to right,,,I  don't like any of those Looks...No Unity i say until All Latin Influences are discarded thrown out.... Grin


I suspect....
When the Greeks and the Armenians have a Scuffle at the Church of the Resurrection It Because of the Papal Looking Hats Miters..... Grin

I could Never Attend a Armenian Church if A Bishop Was Present ,The Urge would be to great to Flick the Papal Miter Off And Stomp On it..... Grin
Strange statements on your part man.
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« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2010, 01:11:33 PM »



I could Never Attend a Armenian Church if A Bishop Was Present ,The Urge would be to great to Flick the Papal Miter Off And Stomp On it..... Grin

You would have a blast when a bishop officiates the Liturgy. During the second hymn, the bishop kneels and prays at the altar, then two deacons face each other and hold up his hat for the congregation to see (and venerate?) lol. This goes on for about 5 minutes.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2010, 01:11:59 PM by Gisasargavak » Logged
stashko
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« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2010, 01:19:46 PM »

The Altars Sure Look Latin, Including the Papal Looking Hats Miters or the way they cross themselves left to right,,,I  don't like any of those Looks...No Unity i say until All Latin Influences are discarded thrown out.... Grin


I suspect....
When the Greeks and the Armenians have a Scuffle at the Church of the Resurrection It Because of the Papal Looking Hats Miters..... Grin

I could Never Attend a Armenian Church if A Bishop Was Present ,The Urge would be to great to Flick the Papal Miter Off And Stomp On it..... Grin
Strange statements on your part man.

Are you Following My Posts...Im a True Orthodox Christian ,Give Me Orthodoxy Or give me Death...Theres nothing Else... Grin
« Last Edit: July 07, 2010, 01:21:44 PM by stashko » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2010, 01:21:01 PM »

The Altars Sure Look Latin, Including the Papal Looking Hats Miters or the way they cross themselves left to right,,,I  don't like any of those Looks...No Unity i say until All Latin Influences are discarded thrown out.... Grin


I suspect....
When the Greeks and the Armenians have a Scuffle at the Church of the Resurrection It Because of the Papal Looking Hats Miters..... Grin

I could Never Attend a Armenian Church if A Bishop Was Present ,The Urge would be to great to Flick the Papal Miter Off And Stomp On it..... Grin
Strange statements on your part man.

Are you Following My Posts...Im a True Orthodox Christian ,Give Me Orthodoxy Or give me Death...There nothing Else... Grin
Yes, I kind of do follow your posts because I am continually surprised by them.
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« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2010, 01:29:39 PM »


Are you Following My Posts...Im a True Orthodox Christian ,Give Me Orthodoxy Or give me Death...Theres nothing Else... Grin

I think you were being sarcastic, but I hope you consider the Armenian Church as an Orthodox Church. We are after all the first Christian nation. Sad
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« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2010, 01:41:45 PM »

No Unity i say until All Latin Influences are discarded thrown out.... Grin

Well, our Serb brothers could lead by example by first discarding the Tome of Leo.    Wink

It's just a hat, Stashko.   Smiley
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« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2010, 05:51:09 PM »

The Altars Sure Look Latin, Including the Papal Looking Hats Miters or the way they cross themselves left to right,,,I  don't like any of those Looks...No Unity i say until All Latin Influences are discarded thrown out.... Grin


I suspect....
When the Greeks and the Armenians have a Scuffle at the Church of the Resurrection It Because of the Papal Looking Hats Miters..... Grin

I could Never Attend a Armenian Church if A Bishop Was Present ,The Urge would be to great to Flick the Papal Miter Off And Stomp On it..... Grin

Oh dear, wait till you see our other OO bishops wearing "turbans". You may confuse them for the Taliban who cross themselves like the Latins Shocked
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« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2010, 06:00:44 PM »

The Altars Sure Look Latin, Including the Papal Looking Hats Miters or the way they cross themselves left to right,,,I  don't like any of those Looks...No Unity i say until All Latin Influences are discarded thrown out.... Grin


I suspect....
When the Greeks and the Armenians have a Scuffle at the Church of the Resurrection It Because of the Papal Looking Hats Miters..... Grin

I could Never Attend a Armenian Church if A Bishop Was Present ,The Urge would be to great to Flick the Papal Miter Off And Stomp On it..... Grin

Oh dear, wait till you see our other OO bishops wearing "turbans". You may confuse them for the Taliban who cross themselves like the Latins Shocked

Turbans are Great love them ,the Balkan saying is Better the Sultans turban than the tiera [Miter ]of  rome anyday... Grin As a serb i have a tee shirt i wear proudly with that saying,written in serbian cirilitsa... Grin
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« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2010, 06:16:06 PM »

The Altars Sure Look Latin, Including the Papal Looking Hats Miters or the way they cross themselves left to right,,,I  don't like any of those Looks...No Unity i say until All Latin Influences are discarded thrown out.... Grin


I suspect....
When the Greeks and the Armenians have a Scuffle at the Church of the Resurrection It Because of the Papal Looking Hats Miters..... Grin

I could Never Attend a Armenian Church if A Bishop Was Present ,The Urge would be to great to Flick the Papal Miter Off And Stomp On it..... Grin

Oh dear, wait till you see our other OO bishops wearing "turbans". You may confuse them for the Taliban who cross themselves like the Latins Shocked

Turbans are Great love them ,the Balkan saying is Better the Sultans turban than the tiera [Miter ]of  rome anyday... Grin As a serb i have a tee shirt i wear proudly with that saying,written in serbian cirilitsa... Grin

LOL, I guess our bishops took that expression too literally. But, our Coptic priests may also drive you into a Miter hating rage! Good thing thier hand crosses are pretty heavy & solid as they are valuable weapons against little brats (Not that I know from personal experience  Wink ) and possibly angry Stashkos
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stashko
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« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2010, 06:34:36 PM »

The Altars Sure Look Latin, Including the Papal Looking Hats Miters or the way they cross themselves left to right,,,I  don't like any of those Looks...No Unity i say until All Latin Influences are discarded thrown out.... Grin


I suspect....
When the Greeks and the Armenians have a Scuffle at the Church of the Resurrection It Because of the Papal Looking Hats Miters..... Grin

I could Never Attend a Armenian Church if A Bishop Was Present ,The Urge would be to great to Flick the Papal Miter Off And Stomp On it..... Grin

Oh dear, wait till you see our other OO bishops wearing "turbans". You may confuse them for the Taliban who cross themselves like the Latins Shocked

Turbans are Great love them ,the Balkan saying is Better the Sultans turban than the tiera [Miter ]of  rome anyday... Grin As a serb i have a tee shirt i wear proudly with that saying,written in serbian cirilitsa... Grin

LOL, I guess our bishops took that expression too literally. But, our Coptic priests may also drive you into a Miter hating rage! Good thing thier hand crosses are pretty heavy & solid as they are valuable weapons against little brats (Not that I know from personal experience  Wink ) and possibly angry Stashkos
All i can say is dump the latin Influenced traditions  and get back to your Ancient Orthodox Way [Staza Pravoslavna]...then we can talk unity.... Grin Im against any unity with rome .....
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« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2010, 06:55:42 PM »

This was split off from a discussion on OO altars:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,28033.new.html#new

Salpy
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



The Altars Sure Look Latin, Including the Papal Looking Hats Miters or the way they cross themselves left to right,,,I  don't like any of those Looks...No Unity i say until All Latin Influences are discarded thrown out.... Grin


I suspect....
When the Greeks and the Armenians have a Scuffle at the Church of the Resurrection It Because of the Papal Looking Hats Miters..... Grin

I could Never Attend a Armenian Church if A Bishop Was Present ,The Urge would be to great to Flick the Papal Miter Off And Stomp On it..... Grin

Wow.  Angry
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« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2010, 06:57:25 PM »


Are you Following My Posts...Im a True Orthodox Christian ,Give Me Orthodoxy Or give me Death...Theres nothing Else... Grin

I think you were being sarcastic, but I hope you consider the Armenian Church as an Orthodox Church. We are after all the first Christian nation. Sad

That doesn't mean anything. It's a perfectly legitimate opinion from a Chalcedonian perspective to regard the Armenian church and its sister churches as unorthodox.

Also, it's entirely possible that Osroene was the first Christian nation.
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« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2010, 06:58:08 PM »

Well, our Serb brothers could lead by example by first discarding the Tome of Leo.    Wink

 laugh laugh laugh

*thumbs up*
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« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2010, 06:59:13 PM »

All i can say is dump the latin Influenced traditions  and get back to your Ancient Orthodox Way [Staza Pravoslavna]...then we can talk unity.... Grin Im against any unity with rome .....

Oh brother.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2010, 07:14:28 PM »

That doesn't mean anything. It's a perfectly legitimate opinion from a Chalcedonian perspective to regard the Armenian church and its sister churches as unorthodox.

No, it's not.

Quote
Also, it's entirely possible that Osroene was the first Christian nation.

No, it wasn't.
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« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2010, 07:22:44 PM »


Are you Following My Posts...Im a True Orthodox Christian ,Give Me Orthodoxy Or give me Death...Theres nothing Else... Grin

I think you were being sarcastic, but I hope you consider the Armenian Church as an Orthodox Church. We are after all the first Christian nation. Sad

How is that possable,,Holy Scripture say's it was given to the Jews first then to the Greeks,,The First Christian Nation...Ill believe What Scripture Says About it .... Grin
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« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2010, 07:24:51 PM »

That doesn't mean anything. It's a perfectly legitimate opinion from a Chalcedonian perspective to regard the Armenian church and its sister churches as unorthodox.

No, it's not.

Quote
Also, it's entirely possible that Osroene was the first Christian nation.

No, it wasn't.

Ugh.  Roll Eyes

It would be appropriate if you explain your responses instead of just saying "no".
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« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2010, 07:28:18 PM »

On a serious note speaking of Oriental Orthodox mitres. Where did the mitres that Armenian bishops as well as Coptic priests come from? What is the history behind them?
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« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2010, 07:29:39 PM »


Are you Following My Posts...Im a True Orthodox Christian ,Give Me Orthodoxy Or give me Death...Theres nothing Else... Grin

I think you were being sarcastic, but I hope you consider the Armenian Church as an Orthodox Church. We are after all the first Christian nation. Sad

How is that possable,,Holy Scripture say's it was given to the Jews first then to the Greeks,,The First Christian Nation...Ill believe What Scripture Says About it .... Grin

Staskho, we are applying the use of the word "nation" which includes the reality of state, rather than simply a people, an ethnicity. Given this definition, the Jews cannot be seen as the first Christian nation because their state officials never accepted Christianity.
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« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2010, 07:30:52 PM »


Are you Following My Posts...Im a True Orthodox Christian ,Give Me Orthodoxy Or give me Death...Theres nothing Else... Grin

I think you were being sarcastic, but I hope you consider the Armenian Church as an Orthodox Church. We are after all the first Christian nation. Sad

How is that possable,,Holy Scripture say's it was given to the Jews first then to the Greeks,,The First Christian Nation...Ill believe What Scripture Says About it .... Grin

He's talking about Armenia being the first nation to make Christianity the official state religion.

Deusveritasest brings up King Apkar, who believed in Christ during the time of the apostles.  The problem is that I don't think that resulted in Christianity becoming the official religion of Edessa.  Even if King Apkar declared it as such, it didn't last as the official religion of that region past his death.
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« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2010, 07:33:50 PM »


Are you Following My Posts...Im a True Orthodox Christian ,Give Me Orthodoxy Or give me Death...Theres nothing Else... Grin

I think you were being sarcastic, but I hope you consider the Armenian Church as an Orthodox Church. We are after all the first Christian nation. Sad

How is that possable,,Holy Scripture say's it was given to the Jews first then to the Greeks,,The First Christian Nation...Ill believe What Scripture Says About it .... Grin

He's talking about Armenia being the first nation to make Christianity the official state religion.

Deusveritasest brings up King Apkar, who believed in Christ during the time of the apostles.  The problem is that I don't think that resulted in Christianity becoming the official religion of Edessa.  Even if King Apkar declared it as such, it didn't last as the official religion of that region past his death.

I have read some sources on the internet which claim that he did make Christianity the official religion of Osroene. I don't know whether these sources are reliable or not; I don't even remember exactly what they were. Given that he was himself a Christian, I think that this is entirely possible. If it is the case then Osroene was the first Christian nation.

However, it's also possible that he did not, and if that's the case then Armenia likely was.
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« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2010, 07:44:25 PM »

In any event, it didn't last as the official religion of that nation.  I think his successors turned back to paganism.  What King Drtad did, on the other hand, really established a Christian nation.
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« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2010, 07:46:13 PM »

Got It..So instead Of Saying Christian Nation the first christians were Jews then the Greeks, and everybody else ,After that....... Grin Ok...And As Long the Greek Orthodox Church is the Mother Church for the ones that came after her ,that's all that matters... Grin
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« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2010, 07:47:59 PM »

King Apkar's picture, by the way, is on Armenian money.  It's kind of cool:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kev_pic_dram.jpg
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« Reply #25 on: July 07, 2010, 07:49:12 PM »

In any event, it didn't last as the official religion of that nation.  I think his successors turned back to paganism.  What King Drtad did, on the other hand, really established a Christian nation.

Salpy, it's not as hugely different as you are making it sound. The Kingdom of Armenia collapsed not much more than 100 years after that, remember?
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« Reply #26 on: July 07, 2010, 07:57:59 PM »

Regardless, our nation had Christianity as its state religion; i.e. everyone had to practice it.

On the other hand, King Apkar merely accepted it as his own religion and didn't make it the official state religion.
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« Reply #27 on: July 07, 2010, 08:08:39 PM »

Regardless, our nation had Christianity as its state religion; i.e. everyone had to practice it.

On the other hand, King Apkar merely accepted it as his own religion and didn't make it the official state religion.

How are you so sure of that?
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« Reply #28 on: July 07, 2010, 08:23:36 PM »

Regardless, our nation had Christianity as its state religion; i.e. everyone had to practice it.

On the other hand, King Apkar merely accepted it as his own religion and didn't make it the official state religion.

How are you so sure of that?

I've never read an hagiography of King Apkar that had him establish Christianity as a state religion.  Can you cite or link to something that said he did?
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« Reply #29 on: July 07, 2010, 08:33:44 PM »

In any event, it didn't last as the official religion of that nation.  I think his successors turned back to paganism.  What King Drtad did, on the other hand, really established a Christian nation.

Salpy, it's not as hugely different as you are making it sound. The Kingdom of Armenia collapsed not much more than 100 years after that, remember?

How does that make what King Drtad did anything less than the establishment of a state religion?  All his successors upheld Christianity and even after Armenia came to be occupied, the Armenian nobility who continued to rule the Armenian people on a local level all remained Christian, as did their subjects. 

The Armenian people--nobility and commoners alike--died for their belief in Christ, from the time of St. Vartan, to the time of the Genocide.  After thirteen centuries of Islamic rule there is no such thing as an Islamic Armenian community.  If an Armenian converts to Islam, he's no longer an Armenian.  That is how strongly fused the Armenian identity is with Christianity.  St. Vartan said that since our conversion we had come to wear our religion as our skin, not as our clothes.  Since the time of Drtad, it has been impossible to remove.

How is that not the establishment of a national religion?  I'm trying to understand how what King Apkar did was comparable.
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« Reply #30 on: July 08, 2010, 02:47:52 AM »

On a serious note speaking of Oriental Orthodox mitres. Where did the mitres that Armenian bishops as well as Coptic priests come from? What is the history behind them?

I can't speak as to the Coptic mitres, but I can tell you a little bit about the Armenian ones, at least what my priest has told me: 

Prior to the Crusades, Armenian bishops had crowns like you see on EO bishops today.  Then during the time of the Crusades the Armenian bishops borrowed the Catholic mitres.  They did not want to waste their crowns, however, so they passed them down to the priests.  That is why today the mitres worn by the bishops resemble Catholic ones, and Armenian priests wear crowns that are similar to the ones worn by EO bishops.  This is what my priest told me.   Smiley
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« Reply #31 on: July 08, 2010, 03:08:00 AM »

Well since you used the word borrowed, Me Think It's Time to Give them back Now ...Why Is Your Church Against it's Older Tradition Of Using the Crown Mitres for your Bishops ...I know that The Armenian Church has a thing for pointed Hats ,Camilavkas their suppose to symbolize Mount Ararat ,Or thats what i watched on the history channel and they mentioned it.... Grin
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« Reply #32 on: July 08, 2010, 03:23:50 AM »

Now I see very clearly Why the Greeks in Jeruslam Don't Like the Armenians ,And they Scuffle  now and then ...You insult the Greek orthodox And All the Eastern Orthodox By Down grading The Bishops Crown Mitre That your Bishops  wore ,by Passing them to your Priests, thats wrong ,Im insulted..Ill never want unity with you...Go join rome Your half way there You have the Ponted Mitres you will blend in just Fine there......... Angry
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« Reply #33 on: July 08, 2010, 03:30:18 AM »

Know I see very clearly Why the Greeks in Jeruslam Don't Like the Armenians ,And they Scuffle  now and then ...You insult the Greek orthodox And All the Eastern Orthodox By Down grading The Bishops Crown Mitre That your Bishop wore ,by Passing them to your Priest, thats wrong ,Im insulted..Ill never want unity with you...Go join rome Your half way there......... Angry

So much hatred and malice toward a large group of people over a hat...  Disgusting.
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« Reply #34 on: July 08, 2010, 03:34:58 AM »

You insult the Greek orthodox And All the Eastern Orthodox By Down grading The Bishops Crown Mitre That your Bishop wore ,by Passing them to your Priests, thats wrong ,Im insulted.

So were the EP Bishops that were accompanying HAH Demetrios in 1980s during his trip to Poland when they saw about a dozen of mitred Presbyters during the Doxology.
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« Reply #35 on: July 08, 2010, 03:44:12 AM »

You insult the Greek orthodox And All the Eastern Orthodox By Down grading The Bishops Crown Mitre That your Bishop wore ,by Passing them to your Priests, thats wrong ,Im insulted.

So were the EP Bishops that were accompanying HAH Demetrios in 1980s during his trip to Poland when they saw about a dozen of mitred Presbyters during the Doxology.

Живила Белорусиjа.........

Thats a slavic Tradition i believe...Theres a big difference Chosing a Latin Papal mitre,and down grading the Bishops  crown Mitre,by passing it to low level clergy...It Down right Insulting....Im insulted... Angry
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« Reply #36 on: July 08, 2010, 09:10:11 AM »

On a serious note speaking of Oriental Orthodox mitres. Where did the mitres that Armenian bishops as well as Coptic priests come from? What is the history behind them?

Andrew, I do hope someone knowledgeable can answer this for you.

Here's some basic info:

http://books.google.com/books?id=vgE4AAAAMAAJ&ots=ZczwjEsOds&dq=ancient%20churches%20of%20egypt&pg=PA97#v=onepage&q&f=false
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« Reply #37 on: July 08, 2010, 10:14:37 AM »

You insult the Greek orthodox And All the Eastern Orthodox By Down grading The Bishops Crown Mitre That your Bishop wore ,by Passing them to your Priests, thats wrong ,Im insulted.

So were the EP Bishops that were accompanying HAH Demetrios in 1980s during his trip to Poland when they saw about a dozen of mitred Presbyters during the Doxology.

Живила Белорусиjа.........

Thats a slavic Tradition i believe...Theres a big difference Chosing a Latin Papal mitre,and down grading the Bishops  crown Mitre,by passing it to low level clergy...It Down right Insulting....Im insulted... Angry

Are you serious that you're "insulted" by something that happened hundreds of years ago to other people that had nothing to do with you personally?  Huh Deep offense is taken over hats??

What happened to turning the other cheek, even assuming that this really had some "impact" on you in the 21st century?

"An insult is like a drink, it does not affect one unless it is accepted."

I'm boggled.
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« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2010, 10:15:23 AM »

You insult the Greek orthodox And All the Eastern Orthodox By Down grading The Bishops Crown Mitre That your Bishop wore ,by Passing them to your Priests, thats wrong ,Im insulted.

So were the EP Bishops that were accompanying HAH Demetrios in 1980s during his trip to Poland when they saw about a dozen of mitred Presbyters during the Doxology.

Живила Белорусиjа.........

Thats a slavic Tradition i believe...Theres a big difference Chosing a Latin Papal mitre,and down grading the Bishops  crown Mitre,by passing it to low level clergy...It Down right Insulting....Im insulted... Angry

Are you serious that you're "insulted" by something that happened hundreds of years ago to other people that had nothing to do with you personally?  Huh Deep offense is taken over hats??

What happened to turning the other cheek, even assuming that this really had some "impact" on you in the 21st century?

"An insult is like a drink, it does not affect one unless it is accepted."

I'm boggled.
Stashko just doesn't like Catholics. Plain and Simple.
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« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2010, 11:05:31 AM »

Why Is Your Church Against it's Older Tradition Of Using the Crown Mitres for your Bishops ...

The oldest tradition is no crowns on any bishops. Some traditions change.
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« Reply #40 on: July 08, 2010, 11:50:31 AM »

Who needs Chalcedon, when you can argue over a hat?   Cheesy
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« Reply #41 on: July 08, 2010, 01:04:15 PM »

Please don't Ever Insult Holy Orthodoxy, By calling yourself Orthodox ,Because Your Not..Your something else but definetly not Orthodox...... Grin




 


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« Reply #42 on: July 08, 2010, 01:13:18 PM »

All I can say, Stashko, is that I know you are not representative of all Serbs, and for that I am grateful.  Armenians and Serbs have historically been friendly with each other, given our similar histories of martyrdom at the hands of the Turks.  In another thread, I recently linked to a wikipedia article that actually discusses the history of Armenians in Serbia, and I think I will paste part of that article here:

Armenians were recorded in Serbia in 1218 when Saint Sava invited constructors to build a Serbian Orthodox monastery after he had been to Armenia and seen the beautiful Armenian architecture. The Armenians were to build Vitovnica Monastery, which has preserved a bilingual sacral text in Serbian and Armenian dating to the building[2].

Armenians were a small part of the Ottoman Turkish army when they invaded Serbia prior to the Battle of Kosovo 1389. However upon hearing that they would attack a Christian people, they fled the Ottomans to the other side to fight alongside the Serbs. After the battle, the surviving Armenians settled in the hills of Sokobanja where they built Jermenčić Monastery[2].

Remains of an Armenian graveyard lies in Kalemegdan fortress, which was last used in the 17th century after the Ottomans destroyed it. Only a few tombs are left in good condition. In 1810 the Turks destroyed the Celije Monastery, the Serbs rebuilt it in 1811 with the help of wealthy Armenians. One of the benefitors had his idea of an Armenian style dome put in work, the monastery today is an outcome of Byzantine/Serbian-Armenian architecture.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenians_in_Serbia

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« Reply #43 on: July 08, 2010, 01:37:49 PM »

Your Church Is A Hybrid, a little bit of east and Whole lot of west Huh.... A Confusion....
God save Holy Orthodoxy from this type.... Grin

This is My Last post Here, we nothing in Common , I want to discuss Holy Orthodoxy .... Grin
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« Reply #44 on: July 08, 2010, 02:08:53 PM »

I find it very odd that Stashko is taking this view.

In 2002 I participated in an Inter-Orthodox Conference on Christology in Sweden at which the Serbian participants were very warm and friendly. There were many Serbian priests and bishops there, and the whole event was very positive. Not at all exhibiting the attitude which Stashko is displaying.

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« Reply #45 on: July 08, 2010, 02:10:29 PM »

Your Church Is A Hybrid, a little bit of east and Whole lot of west Huh.... A Confusion....
God save Holy Orthodoxy from this type.... Grin

This is My Last post Here, we nothing in Common , I want to discuss Holy Orthodoxy .... Grin

Quote from: St. John of Shanghai
Never, Never, Never let anyone tell you that in order to be Orthodox you must also be Eastern. The West was Orthodox for a thousand years, and her venerable liturgy is far older than any of her heresies.
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« Reply #46 on: July 08, 2010, 02:10:51 PM »

Your Church Is A Hybrid, a little bit of east and Whole lot of west Huh.... A Confusion....
God save Holy Orthodoxy from this type.... Grin

This is My Last post Here, we nothing in Common , I want to discuss Holy Orthodoxy .... Grin

Stashko, you do realize there are "Western Rite" Churches in the EOC, no? What do you think thier liturgical vestments look like?

I took your previous posts in good natured fun, I hope I wasn't mistaken.  Undecided
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« Reply #47 on: July 09, 2010, 12:41:27 AM »

We're not Orthodox....because our bishops wear pointy hats...makes sense.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #48 on: July 09, 2010, 02:06:44 AM »

A post focused solely on criticizing the Serbian Orthodox Synod was moved here:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,28631.0.html
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« Reply #49 on: July 09, 2010, 03:09:40 AM »

Stashko's latest post has been sent to the private forum.

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,28632.new.html#new
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« Reply #50 on: July 09, 2010, 09:18:07 AM »

I think I remember reading somewhere on this board that Stashko is 13. Perhaps that explains his views?
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« Reply #51 on: July 09, 2010, 10:06:16 AM »

I think I remember reading somewhere on this board that Stashko is 13. Perhaps that explains his views?
Oh, that would explain it.
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« Reply #52 on: July 09, 2010, 02:16:22 PM »

I can't speak as to the Coptic mitres, but I can tell you a little bit about the Armenian ones, at least what my priest has told me: 

Prior to the Crusades, Armenian bishops had crowns like you see on EO bishops today.  Then during the time of the Crusades the Armenian bishops borrowed the Catholic mitres.  They did not want to waste their crowns, however, so they passed them down to the priests.  That is why today the mitres worn by the bishops resemble Catholic ones, and Armenian priests wear crowns that are similar to the ones worn by EO bishops.  This is what my priest told me.   Smiley



Andrew, I do hope someone knowledgeable can answer this for you.

Here's some basic info:

http://books.google.com/books?id=vgE4AAAAMAAJ&ots=ZczwjEsOds&dq=ancient%20churches%20of%20egypt&pg=PA97#v=onepage&q&f=false

Thank you both!  Smiley
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« Reply #53 on: July 09, 2010, 04:31:39 PM »

I think I remember reading somewhere on this board that Stashko is 13. Perhaps that explains his views?
Oh, that would explain it.

He looks mature for his age (picture in the link):
Heres My Picture me at a friends  business...He's my lutheran friend he sold Catholic Things that the churches threw out after vatican 2..
Sorry to say but i do smoke...nasty habit hard to break...
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« Reply #54 on: July 09, 2010, 04:39:34 PM »

There's a scholarly contribution here on the subject of Armenian priestly headgear...

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=gdiZiQGDf1sC&lpg=PA100&dq=armenian%20priests%20mitres&pg=PA100#v=onepage&q&f=false
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« Reply #55 on: July 12, 2010, 08:05:43 PM »

In any event, it didn't last as the official religion of that nation.  I think his successors turned back to paganism.  What King Drtad did, on the other hand, really established a Christian nation.

Salpy, it's not as hugely different as you are making it sound. The Kingdom of Armenia collapsed not much more than 100 years after that, remember?
But its Church did not.

Btw, Armenian history has assimilated the history of Agbar (in EO tradition, he is treated as Armenian).  He was, in fact, a Aramaized Arab, one of many dynasties along the desert side of the Levant (e.g. Herod, the Nabateans, Zenobia, etc.).
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« Reply #56 on: July 13, 2010, 12:43:57 AM »

Now I see very clearly Why the Greeks in Jeruslam Don't Like the Armenians ,And they Scuffle  now and then ...You insult the Greek orthodox And All the Eastern Orthodox By Down grading The Bishops Crown Mitre That your Bishops  wore ,by Passing them to your Priests, thats wrong ,Im insulted..Ill never want unity with you...Go join rome Your half way there You have the Ponted Mitres you will blend in just Fine there......... Angry

ROFL
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« Reply #57 on: July 13, 2010, 12:45:48 AM »

Who needs Chalcedon, when you can argue over a hat?   Cheesy

 laugh
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« Reply #58 on: July 13, 2010, 12:46:41 AM »

The oldest tradition is no crowns on any bishops.

Ah, so the Syriac Orthodox essentially do retain the oldest tradition in this matter?
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« Reply #59 on: July 13, 2010, 12:48:08 AM »

Your Church Is A Hybrid, a little bit of east and Whole lot of west Huh.... A Confusion....
God save Holy Orthodoxy from this type.... Grin

This is My Last post Here, we nothing in Common , I want to discuss Holy Orthodoxy .... Grin

Confusing Orientalism with Orthodoxy will be your downfall.
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« Reply #60 on: July 13, 2010, 06:56:22 PM »

Your Church Is A Hybrid, a little bit of east and Whole lot of west Huh.... A Confusion....
God save Holy Orthodoxy from this type.... Grin

This is My Last post Here, we nothing in Common , I want to discuss Holy Orthodoxy .... Grin
I apologize to people here, but i have to speak with stashko in Serbian:

Stashko, брате, смири се мало!  престани да вређаш! Angry
постао си веома непристојан. а чак и ако правиш шалу, није баш смешно...
људи овде су према теби веома учтиви. ако се ови људи уздржавају да ти кажу колико си неваспитан, немој да мислиш о себи да није тако.
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« Reply #61 on: July 13, 2010, 07:26:43 PM »

Your Church Is A Hybrid, a little bit of east and Whole lot of west Huh.... A Confusion....
God save Holy Orthodoxy from this type.... Grin

This is My Last post Here, we nothing in Common , I want to discuss Holy Orthodoxy .... Grin
I apologize to people here, but i have to speak with stashko in Serbian:

Stashko, брате, смири се мало!  престани да вређаш! Angry
постао си веома непристојан. а чак и ако правиш шалу, није баш смешно...
људи овде су према теби веома учтиви. ако се ови људи уздржавају да ти кажу колико си неваспитан, немој да мислиш о себи да није тако.


Hello Kako si ...

Ovo je forum za pricanje sta mi verujem ili neverujemo...Zasto cu da im lazem, da ja verujem da su oni pravoslavni kad nisu,, ,primilisu rimski obicaj ......Ja nisam ambasador serbije gde otac je dosao ili bosne gde majka je dosla iz ...Molim brate nemoj da mi prepovedas ...Brigase  Na tvoje brige i ja cu na moje.... Mir Stanislav Grin
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« Reply #62 on: July 14, 2010, 08:23:11 AM »

Stashko, are you aware that there are fully canonical Eastern Orthodox parishes which use entirely Roman/Western customs?
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stashko
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« Reply #63 on: January 20, 2012, 04:06:23 AM »

Churches Look Nice.... things i like and don't about ...... Grin

I Noticed the Altar Area is elevated about two or three step high, from the congregation,which is better than the higher elevated ones i've seen . The Higher elevated ones reminded me of a play theater ....So now the other improvments should be geared towards the head Gear, and the odd looking Stole or what ever the greek word is for it] the Bishop is wearing ,Remindes me of the eastern Catholic one piece Bib... Grin The Other thing i don't care for, is those lousy western religious images....Everything else seem fine ...The Altar could use some improvment like getting rid of the tiers  ,centered and flat....... police

Do the Altar Face east in your churches or is it west ,toward your former Master..... laugh
« Last Edit: January 20, 2012, 04:26:44 AM by stashko » Logged

ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.
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« Reply #64 on: January 20, 2012, 11:18:11 AM »

Churches Look Nice.... things i like and don't about ...... Grin

I Noticed the Altar Area is elevated about two or three step high, from the congregation,which is better than the higher elevated ones i've seen . The Higher elevated ones reminded me of a play theater ....So now the other improvments should be geared towards the head Gear, and the odd looking Stole or what ever the greek word is for it] the Bishop is wearing ,Remindes me of the eastern Catholic one piece Bib... Grin The Other thing i don't care for, is those lousy western religious images....Everything else seem fine ...The Altar could use some improvment like getting rid of the tiers  ,centered and flat....... police
I don't understand why you feel the need to criticize, on the spot, what you're seeing.  This is our Church.  We're not an Eastern Orthodox tradition, and our traditions come from the fact that Armenians have been influenced by a variety of cultures over the centuries, and have incorporated a lot of little things into our style of worship, iconography, architecture, ect.


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Do the Altar Face east in your churches or is it west ,toward your former Master..... laugh
Yes.  Your point?
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« Reply #65 on: January 20, 2012, 09:47:48 PM »

Please Forgive ..
I Just Can't get used To the Hybrid Look...
The Churches are Magnificent structures....... police
 
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ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.
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« Reply #66 on: January 20, 2012, 10:16:09 PM »

The above three posts were split off from a discussion about two new Armenian churches being consecrated:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,42453.0.html#top
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Tags: head coverings King Abgar Serbian Orthodox Church Serbia Armenian Church hats=heresy 
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