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Author Topic: Infallibility of Christ  (Read 656 times) Average Rating: 0
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mike
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« on: June 30, 2010, 05:00:08 PM »

Is Christ considered to be infallible. I would like to read responses concerning John 5, 31.
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PeterTheAleut
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« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2010, 05:42:11 PM »

Is Christ considered to be infallible. I would like to read responses concerning John 5, 31.
So we don't have to go reaching for our Bibles, can you quote that passage for us? Wink
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mike
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« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2010, 05:45:30 PM »

Oh man... Wink Happy nameday BTW.

Quote
If I testify about myself, my testimony is not valid.
source
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Robert W
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« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2010, 06:16:00 PM »

Is Christ considered to be infallible. I would like to read responses concerning John 5, 31.

I think Christ is making a general statement that a man who brags about himself is not to be taken seriously. The passage goes on to talk about the testimony of St John the baptist. Remember also that we have received this trough the writings of St John the theologian. The gospels are the testimonies about Christ, penned by other people.

Quote from: John 5:31-35
31"If I testify about myself, my testimony is not valid. 32There is another who testifies in my favor, and I know that his testimony about me is valid.
 33"You have sent to John and he has testified to the truth. 34Not that I accept human testimony; but I mention it that you may be saved. 35John was a lamp that burned and gave light, and you chose for a time to enjoy his light.
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PeterTheAleut
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« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2010, 06:23:18 PM »

Oh man... Wink Happy nameday BTW.
Thank you, but I don't celebrate the feast of my saint, Peter the Aleut Martyr, until September 24. Wink  (I guess I could claim yesterday as an indirect nameday, since the Apostle Peter is ultimately the saint from whom all who bear the name Peter draw their name. Grin  But I don't think that reasoning would fly very well with my priest.)

Quote
If I testify about myself, my testimony is not valid.
source
I've never read this passage as indicating that Jesus didn't think Himself incapable of error.  I've always understood that one needs to read this with an understanding of His audience.  As I read His words here, Jesus is anticipating that those hearing Him speak will not believe His testimony about Himself--as Robert intimated above, only a fool boasts about himself.  According to Jewish law (Deuteronomy 17:6),  a valid testimony requires at least two witnesses, so Jesus offers as validation of His testimony the witness of others.  Those Jesus offers as witnesses to corroborate His testimony about Himself are His Father, John the Forerunner, His own works, and the Jewish Scriptures.  (See the next several verses that follow John 5:31.)
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mike
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« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2010, 06:30:51 PM »

So it has to be something wrong with Polish translation He uses the word 'genuine'/'real'.
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« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2010, 06:32:30 PM »

I believe this quote is also an indication that the Father and the Son are indeed two different Persons, contrary to what the so-called "Patripassionists" taught.
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PeterTheAleut
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« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2010, 07:07:59 PM »

So it has to be something wrong with Polish translation He uses the word 'genuine'/'real'.
Not necessarily, if you read Jesus's words in this passage as an anticipation or clairvoyant acknowledgement of what His audience are thinking about Him and not as a testimony of what Jesus thinks about Himself.  He's not declaring Himself fallible; rather, He's speaking to an audience He knows sees Him as fallible (or much worse).
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« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2010, 08:29:06 PM »

Of course He's infallible.
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« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2010, 09:29:58 AM »

concerning John 5:31, this is what the footnotes of the Orthodox Study Bible have to say

 "How Could Christ's witness ever be untrue? it cannot (see John 8:14) Rather, Jesus is anticipating the argument and speaking the thoughts of the Jewish leaders (he does the same thing in Lk 4:23).  In Jewish tradition, a valid testimony requires two witnesses (Dt 17:6).  Jesus offers four witnesses to comfirm His identity as Messiah and as Son of God: (1) God the Father (vv. 32, 37, 38); (2) John the Baptist (vv 33-35); (3) His own works (v. 36); and (4) the OT scriptures, through which Moses and others gave testimony (vv. 39-47).

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"It is true that I am not always faithful, but I never lose courage, I leave myself in the Arms of Our Lord." - St. Thérèse of Lisieux
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