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Author Topic: Divine Liturgy: Only in a temple?  (Read 1067 times) Average Rating: 0
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Hamartolos
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« on: June 29, 2010, 07:51:36 PM »

Hi everyone.

The subject pretty much sums up my question.  We (Antiochian Archdiocese-Eastern Diocese) are having our PLC starting tomorrow.  Unfortunately, I can't make it to any of the events but do plan on going to the Hierarchical Divine Liturgy this Sunday.  My question is, and I feel embarrassed to ask, can the Divine Liturgy be served anywhere other than in a church on a consecrated altar?  My assumption is 'no', but all of the events are being held at a hotel and the schedule of events does not list locations.  Pretty much, I didn't want to send an e-mail to the hosting parish asking this question and sound like a fool.  Tongue
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« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2010, 07:54:25 PM »

I've asked about this as well.  Apparently, in order to serve the Liturgy, the only thing absolutely necessary are the antimins (sp?).  I've been told this by my priest who was told by Bishop BASIL.
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« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2010, 08:00:34 PM »

That is true: the liturgy can be celebrated wherever there is an antimension.
It is, actually routinely celebrated outside.
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Holy Father Patrick, thank you for your help!


« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2010, 08:02:46 PM »

I've done several Liturgies outside in cemeteries; of course I always had the antimension with me!
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« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2010, 08:36:40 PM »

For those who may wonder about the antimins/antimension:

This is the altar cloth which gives a priest the authority to conduct the Divine Liturgy. The antimins contains a relic of a saint sewn into it, and the cloth is signed by the ruling bishop, thus bestowing episcopal authority (imprimatur) on the right of that priest to conduct the Eucharist on the bishop's behalf, as it were.

The word for this altar cloth is derived from the Greek anti- (in place of), and the Latin mensa (table). From the earliest Christian period, liturgies were served on the graves or relics of martyrs and saints; this led to the practice of ensuring a holy relic was embedded into the altar of every consecrated Orthodox church. In the absence of a consecrated altar, such as a church not yet consecrated (the parish church in which I was baptised had to wait ten years before it was formally consecrated), or if a liturgy is to be held on board ship, in an outdoor space, in a hotel, or anywhere outside a consecrated church, the use of the antimins allows the proper and "valid" (I apologise for using this word) serving of the Divine Liturgy. The Liturgy held to commemorate the founding of a monastery near where I live was conducted using an antimension placed on a tree stump in the middle of a field, with icons of Christ and the Mother of God hung in forks of trees.

In short: Where there be the antimins, there be the Eucharist.
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« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2010, 10:15:40 PM »

Many missions hold services in rented spaces that are in no way a consecrated temple. In some places services are even held in homes. Above answers are very informative and correct about the antimens. Our small mission parish rents a hall owned by but not adjacent to a Byzantine Catholic church. We have to set up and take down everything each service. We laymen are not allowed to touch, let alone remove anything from the table used as an altar as long as the antimens are present on that table. Our priest tries to remember to remove them right away so those of us putting things away can get our part of the job done.
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« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2010, 09:24:21 PM »

The Orthodox Liturgy can be served outside of the church. The first Christian communities celebrated the liturgy hiding in houses. After taking the liturgy its final shape, it is sound to celebrate the liturgy only in a consecrated church because of the antimension and because of the holy relics of the saints that can be found in the altar table.
However, it is allowable to celebrate the divine liturgy outside of of the church as long as there is an antimension. We celebrate the liturgy in the field (in missions) and in hotels (in conventions ans so on.

Just a final note: in cases of emergency you can celebrate the divine liturgy even without the antimension. Cases of emrgincy we are talking about is when the community loses the access to a church or an antimension.
Another interesting thing is that in cases of emergency, if you do not have a church or an antimension, and thier is a bishop in the presence, yo can celebrate the divine liturgy WITHOUT the antimension, the bishop will serve as the antimension in this case.

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« Last Edit: July 18, 2010, 09:43:49 AM by arimethea » Logged
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« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2010, 10:51:40 PM »

That is true: the liturgy can be celebrated wherever there is an antimension.
It is, actually routinely celebrated outside.

I was told by a nun that her father confessor used to go out in during Communism in the forest in Romania with the antimens, and celebrate DL using the wagon.   The congregation would be people who did not want/could not risk being seen in Church.
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« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2013, 05:54:27 PM »

http://orthphoto.net/photo.php?id=80302&id_jezyk=1

OK, this bothers me a bit.
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« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2013, 06:20:07 PM »


What about it bothers you?
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Great googly moogly!


« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2013, 09:04:13 PM »

Without sounding disrespectful,  I always wonder when materiel things are given prominence. It just seems to be worldly and not important in salvation. The thought is just something that has been in my mind alot lately, and this thread seemed a good place to ask.

Christ never mentions this type of thing being important, does he?
He does mention the cornerstone , and the temple being torn down , most of his references to material things are not only that they are unnecessary for salvation, but that storing up treasures where they might be stolen or destroyed may be detrimental to salvation.Matt 6:19
« Last Edit: September 28, 2013, 09:12:15 PM by Sinful Hypocrite » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2013, 10:11:03 PM »

Without sounding disrespectful,  I always wonder when materiel things are given prominence. It just seems to be worldly and not important in salvation. The thought is just something that has been in my mind alot lately, and this thread seemed a good place to ask.

Christ never mentions this type of thing being important, does he?
He does mention the cornerstone , and the temple being torn down , most of his references to material things are not only that they are unnecessary for salvation, but that storing up treasures where they might be stolen or destroyed may be detrimental to salvation.Matt 6:19

The sanctification of matter and of the material world is a key tenet of Christianity. It goes hand-in-hand with the resurrection of the body, the real physical incarnation and death of Christ, the Eucharist, etc.
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« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2013, 11:17:10 PM »

The Divine Liturgy can be conducted in any space if the priest has a validly-consecrated antimins. Liturgies can be celebrated outside a temple as long as the priest is validly ordained and has the requisite equipment including antimension.
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Great googly moogly!


« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2013, 01:02:39 AM »

Without sounding disrespectful,  I always wonder when materiel things are given prominence. It just seems to be worldly and not important in salvation. The thought is just something that has been in my mind alot lately, and this thread seemed a good place to ask.

Christ never mentions this type of thing being important, does he?
He does mention the cornerstone , and the temple being torn down , most of his references to material things are not only that they are unnecessary for salvation, but that storing up treasures where they might be stolen or destroyed may be detrimental to salvation.Matt 6:19

The sanctification of matter and of the material world is a key tenet of Christianity. It goes hand-in-hand with the resurrection of the body, the real physical incarnation and death of Christ, the Eucharist, etc.
Yes, I can see that with communion it does make sense, His Body and Blood. But it is also to this particular thread topic that he said where two or three gather in his name, he is with us(Mt 18:20). The Gospels never mention any certain ways , such as the detailed instructions about the Laws handed down to Moses , where scripture is given in detailed ways to accomplish God's law.

I suppose it was through those Jewish rituals that Jesus also must have participated, that our rituals have been formed.
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