Author Topic: can I venerate these?  (Read 1778 times)

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Offline Tikhon.of.Colorado

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can I venerate these?
« on: June 29, 2010, 03:20:54 AM »
can I venerate these?

1. an unframed picture of the Lord's last supper that the sweetest old woman gave me of an image she knitted.

2. a 300th anniversary of the house of Romanov featuring all Tzars and Tzarinas and the entire family of the martyr Tzar Nicholas II.



« Last Edit: June 29, 2010, 03:28:15 AM by trevor72694 »

Offline Tikhon.of.Colorado

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Re: can I venerate these?
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2010, 03:29:28 AM »
here is a picture of #2



it was brought from Russia by an old woman in our parish, memory eternal to her!  my Godfather bought it for me at her estate sale. 

Offline LBK

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Re: can I venerate these?
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2010, 05:44:53 AM »
Without seeing the Last Supper image, I can't say whether or not it should be venerated. The Romanov poster? Definitely not. It is a lovely souvenir and commemorative item, but it is not an icon, even though the poster features people who are now proclaimed saints.

Was this image painted with prayer and fasting? No.
Is there a Church feast day dedicated to the tercentenary of the dynasty? No.
Is this image glorifying God, or the Imperial Family? No, yes.
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Offline Robert W

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Re: can I venerate these?
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2010, 04:22:31 AM »
I must say I love all the heraldry in the picture. The coat of arms if Moscow (lower left) is quite well known, as is the coat of arms of house Romanov (center). I fail to identify the lower right one though, do you trevor72694 know what it is?

To answer your question, I wouldn't use it for veneration.

Larger images of the coat of arms of house Romanov:

« Last Edit: June 30, 2010, 04:39:07 AM by Robert W »

Offline Feanor

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Re: can I venerate these?
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2010, 08:41:07 AM »
Why on earth would you venerate Tsars?

Offline Thomas

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Re: can I venerate these?
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2010, 09:37:12 AM »
Orthodox Chrisrtians venerate Orthodox Kings, Tsars, and Emperors who have been canonized by the Church just as Roman Catholics venerate Holy Roman Emperors, Kings, and other Royalty who have been canonized. Orthodox Christians do not venerate those "Tsars" who have not been canonized just as the Roman Catholic Christian does not venerate Roman Catholic Kings who have not been canonized.

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Offline Robert W

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Re: can I venerate these?
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2010, 01:52:17 PM »
Why on earth would you venerate Tsars?
Same reason any saint is venerated.



The imperial family might not be the most popular saints in my backwoods of the world but the Church considers them saints.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanov_sainthood
« Last Edit: June 30, 2010, 01:56:37 PM by Robert W »

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: can I venerate these?
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2010, 02:29:28 PM »
We venerate Tsar St. Nicholas II and his family not because he was a Tsar but because he and his family faced their executions at the hands of the Bolsheviks with the grace that only God could give them.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: can I venerate these?
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2010, 02:46:35 PM »
I must say I love all the heraldry in the picture. The coat of arms if Moscow (lower left) is quite well known, as is the coat of arms of house Romanov (center). I fail to identify the lower right one though, do you trevor72694 know what it is?

The coat of arms of St. Petersburg.


Quote
To answer your question, I wouldn't use it for veneration.

I agree. But I would cherish it as an important piece of history.  I"m curious, is it a print? How large?

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Offline ialmisry

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Re: can I venerate these?
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2010, 02:47:07 PM »
Why on earth would you venerate Tsars?

Why not?
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: can I venerate these?
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2010, 05:05:53 PM »
Why on earth would you venerate Tsars?

Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well. For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men: As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God. Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.

The 2nd Epistle of St. Peter the Holy Apostle, whose confession is the rock of faith on which our church is built.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: can I venerate these?
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2010, 05:40:55 PM »
Why on earth would you venerate Tsars?

Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well. For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men: As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God. Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.

The 2nd Epistle of St. Peter the Holy Apostle, whose confession is the rock of faith on which our church is built.
But is this submission to and honor of those who hold civil authority the same thing as the veneration of which Feanor speaks?  I read him as asking why we would grant to a Tsar the veneration due a saint of the Church.  Can you answer that question?
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline Robert W

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Re: can I venerate these?
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2010, 06:29:35 PM »
The coat of arms of St. Petersburg.
Thanks ialmisry;D