Author Topic: When did clergyman start wearing cassocks?  (Read 4904 times)

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Offline samkim

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When did clergyman start wearing cassocks?
« on: June 28, 2010, 11:35:47 PM »
When?
주 예수 그리스도 하느님의 아들이시여 저 이 죄인을 불쌍히 여기소서.

Offline Cymbyz

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Re: When did clergyman start wearing cassocks?
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2010, 12:43:44 AM »
Way back when--Middle Ages, if not before.
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Offline WetCatechumen

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Re: When did clergyman start wearing cassocks?
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2010, 12:57:26 AM »
When?

That is an incorrect question. The correct question is. "When did laypeople stop wearing cassocks?" The cassock, at least in the West, in the clothing descendant of the tunic, which was worn underneath the toga. The toga evolved into the chasuble in the West, and the phelonion in the East.

The stocharion is the equivalent of the alb - another item of clerical clothing derived from tunics.

http://www.kencollins.com/glossary/vestments.htm

This website, although it's by a minister of the Disciples of Christ, it has a very good explanation of all the vestments and clericals you'll see - admittedly, it's from a Western point of view, but the Eastern equivalent vestments are treated.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2010, 12:58:24 AM by WetCatechumen »
"And because they have nothing better to do, they take cushion and chairs to Rome. And while the Pope is saying liturgy, they go, 'Oh, oh, oh, filioque!' And the Pope say, 'Filioque? That-uh sound nice! I think I divide-uh the Church over it!'" - Comrade Real Presence

Offline samkim

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Re: When did clergyman start wearing cassocks?
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2010, 02:14:16 PM »
When?

That is an incorrect question. The correct question is. "When did laypeople stop wearing cassocks?" The cassock, at least in the West, in the clothing descendant of the tunic, which was worn underneath the toga. The toga evolved into the chasuble in the West, and the phelonion in the East.

The stocharion is the equivalent of the alb - another item of clerical clothing derived from tunics.

http://www.kencollins.com/glossary/vestments.htm

This website, although it's by a minister of the Disciples of Christ, it has a very good explanation of all the vestments and clericals you'll see - admittedly, it's from a Western point of view, but the Eastern equivalent vestments are treated.

Right. But the tunic is not the cassock. There was some point in time when the cassock specifically became the cassock, specifically a clerical cassock. Just like a toga is not a chasuble.
주 예수 그리스도 하느님의 아들이시여 저 이 죄인을 불쌍히 여기소서.

Offline Cymbyz

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Re: When did clergyman start wearing cassocks?
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2010, 02:21:56 PM »
As a point of interest:  the chasuble and pheloneon derive from a riding-cloak worn by the Roman upper classes.  The alb/sticharion was developed as a Christian garment, the new robe given to every newly-baptized Christian.  It later became a choir vestment, then gravitated into almost exclusive clerical use as an undergarment fo the vestments worn at Liturgy.

The liturgical outer vestments were evocations of the vestments worn by the priests of Israel under the Old Covenant, but those worn by hierarchs (except for the omophorion, which bishops always had) were borrowed by permission from the Emperor, and became proprietary to bishops after the fall of the Byzantine Empire.
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Offline WetCatechumen

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Re: When did clergyman start wearing cassocks?
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2010, 07:24:42 AM »
When?

That is an incorrect question. The correct question is. "When did laypeople stop wearing cassocks?" The cassock, at least in the West, in the clothing descendant of the tunic, which was worn underneath the toga. The toga evolved into the chasuble in the West, and the phelonion in the East.

The stocharion is the equivalent of the alb - another item of clerical clothing derived from tunics.

http://www.kencollins.com/glossary/vestments.htm

This website, although it's by a minister of the Disciples of Christ, it has a very good explanation of all the vestments and clericals you'll see - admittedly, it's from a Western point of view, but the Eastern equivalent vestments are treated.

Right. But the tunic is not the cassock. There was some point in time when the cassock specifically became the cassock, specifically a clerical cassock. Just like a toga is not a chasuble.

And I'm not an Australopithecine. Your point is?
« Last Edit: June 30, 2010, 07:24:54 AM by WetCatechumen »
"And because they have nothing better to do, they take cushion and chairs to Rome. And while the Pope is saying liturgy, they go, 'Oh, oh, oh, filioque!' And the Pope say, 'Filioque? That-uh sound nice! I think I divide-uh the Church over it!'" - Comrade Real Presence

Offline samkim

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Re: When did clergyman start wearing cassocks?
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2010, 05:45:00 PM »
When?

That is an incorrect question. The correct question is. "When did laypeople stop wearing cassocks?" The cassock, at least in the West, in the clothing descendant of the tunic, which was worn underneath the toga. The toga evolved into the chasuble in the West, and the phelonion in the East.

The stocharion is the equivalent of the alb - another item of clerical clothing derived from tunics.

http://www.kencollins.com/glossary/vestments.htm

This website, although it's by a minister of the Disciples of Christ, it has a very good explanation of all the vestments and clericals you'll see - admittedly, it's from a Western point of view, but the Eastern equivalent vestments are treated.

Right. But the tunic is not the cassock. There was some point in time when the cassock specifically became the cassock, specifically a clerical cassock. Just like a toga is not a chasuble.

And I'm not an Australopithecine. Your point is?

I made it. And do you have to sound like a jerk?
« Last Edit: July 01, 2010, 05:46:07 PM by samkim »
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Offline Fr. George

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Re: When did clergyman start wearing cassocks?
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2010, 07:42:12 AM »
but those worn by hierarchs (except for the omophorion, which bishops always had) were borrowed by permission from the Emperor, and became proprietary to bishops after the fall of the Byzantine Empire.

I think this point has been refuted before on this site.  Sadly, I don't have the reference at present.
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