samkim
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« on: June 28, 2010, 11:35:47 PM » |
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When?
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주 예수 그리스도 하느님의 아들이시여 저 이 죄인을 불쌍히 여기소서.
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Cymbyz
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« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2010, 12:43:44 AM » |
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Way back when--Middle Ages, if not before.
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The end of the world
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watch and pray.
Yahoo! & WLM ID: Owen
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WetCatechumen
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« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2010, 12:57:26 AM » |
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When?
That is an incorrect question. The correct question is. "When did laypeople stop wearing cassocks?" The cassock, at least in the West, in the clothing descendant of the tunic, which was worn underneath the toga. The toga evolved into the chasuble in the West, and the phelonion in the East. The stocharion is the equivalent of the alb - another item of clerical clothing derived from tunics. http://www.kencollins.com/glossary/vestments.htmThis website, although it's by a minister of the Disciples of Christ, it has a very good explanation of all the vestments and clericals you'll see - admittedly, it's from a Western point of view, but the Eastern equivalent vestments are treated. |
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« Last Edit: June 29, 2010, 12:58:24 AM by WetCatechumen »
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"And because they have nothing better to do, they take cushion and chairs to Rome. And while the Pope is saying liturgy, they go, 'Oh, oh, oh, filioque!' And the Pope say, 'Filioque? That-uh sound nice! I think I divide-uh the Church over it!'" - Comrade Real Presence
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samkim
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« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2010, 02:14:16 PM » |
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When?
That is an incorrect question. The correct question is. "When did laypeople stop wearing cassocks?" The cassock, at least in the West, in the clothing descendant of the tunic, which was worn underneath the toga. The toga evolved into the chasuble in the West, and the phelonion in the East. The stocharion is the equivalent of the alb - another item of clerical clothing derived from tunics. http://www.kencollins.com/glossary/vestments.htmThis website, although it's by a minister of the Disciples of Christ, it has a very good explanation of all the vestments and clericals you'll see - admittedly, it's from a Western point of view, but the Eastern equivalent vestments are treated. Right. But the tunic is not the cassock. There was some point in time when the cassock specifically became the cassock, specifically a clerical cassock. Just like a toga is not a chasuble. |
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주 예수 그리스도 하느님의 아들이시여 저 이 죄인을 불쌍히 여기소서.
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Cymbyz
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« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2010, 02:21:56 PM » |
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As a point of interest: the chasuble and pheloneon derive from a riding-cloak worn by the Roman upper classes. The alb/sticharion was developed as a Christian garment, the new robe given to every newly-baptized Christian. It later became a choir vestment, then gravitated into almost exclusive clerical use as an undergarment fo the vestments worn at Liturgy.
The liturgical outer vestments were evocations of the vestments worn by the priests of Israel under the Old Covenant, but those worn by hierarchs (except for the omophorion, which bishops always had) were borrowed by permission from the Emperor, and became proprietary to bishops after the fall of the Byzantine Empire.
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The end of the world
is as near as the day of your death;
watch and pray.
Yahoo! & WLM ID: Owen
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WetCatechumen
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« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2010, 07:24:42 AM » |
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When?
That is an incorrect question. The correct question is. "When did laypeople stop wearing cassocks?" The cassock, at least in the West, in the clothing descendant of the tunic, which was worn underneath the toga. The toga evolved into the chasuble in the West, and the phelonion in the East. The stocharion is the equivalent of the alb - another item of clerical clothing derived from tunics. http://www.kencollins.com/glossary/vestments.htmThis website, although it's by a minister of the Disciples of Christ, it has a very good explanation of all the vestments and clericals you'll see - admittedly, it's from a Western point of view, but the Eastern equivalent vestments are treated. Right. But the tunic is not the cassock. There was some point in time when the cassock specifically became the cassock, specifically a clerical cassock. Just like a toga is not a chasuble. And I'm not an Australopithecine. Your point is? |
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« Last Edit: June 30, 2010, 07:24:54 AM by WetCatechumen »
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"And because they have nothing better to do, they take cushion and chairs to Rome. And while the Pope is saying liturgy, they go, 'Oh, oh, oh, filioque!' And the Pope say, 'Filioque? That-uh sound nice! I think I divide-uh the Church over it!'" - Comrade Real Presence
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samkim
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« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2010, 05:45:00 PM » |
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When?
That is an incorrect question. The correct question is. "When did laypeople stop wearing cassocks?" The cassock, at least in the West, in the clothing descendant of the tunic, which was worn underneath the toga. The toga evolved into the chasuble in the West, and the phelonion in the East. The stocharion is the equivalent of the alb - another item of clerical clothing derived from tunics. http://www.kencollins.com/glossary/vestments.htmThis website, although it's by a minister of the Disciples of Christ, it has a very good explanation of all the vestments and clericals you'll see - admittedly, it's from a Western point of view, but the Eastern equivalent vestments are treated. Right. But the tunic is not the cassock. There was some point in time when the cassock specifically became the cassock, specifically a clerical cassock. Just like a toga is not a chasuble. And I'm not an Australopithecine. Your point is? I made it. And do you have to sound like a jerk? |
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« Last Edit: July 01, 2010, 05:46:07 PM by samkim »
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주 예수 그리스도 하느님의 아들이시여 저 이 죄인을 불쌍히 여기소서.
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Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
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May the Lord bless you and keep you always!
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« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2010, 07:42:12 AM » |
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but those worn by hierarchs (except for the omophorion, which bishops always had) were borrowed by permission from the Emperor, and became proprietary to bishops after the fall of the Byzantine Empire. I think this point has been refuted before on this site. Sadly, I don't have the reference at present. |
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"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
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Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
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