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Author Topic: Is this blogpost "Orthodox"?  (Read 953 times) Average Rating: 0
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Mister Jim Dude
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« on: June 22, 2010, 03:35:04 AM »

Hi, guys,
I was wondering if you could read my short post on my blog about Prayers to the saints. I was wondering if it were "Orthodox" enough or if it contained errors.
http://orthodoxyorbust.blogspot.com/2010/06/prayer-of-saints.html
thanks,
jim
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« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2010, 04:14:40 AM »

Jim,

It looks good. Orthodox are not "Jesuitical". You can express different opinions on such general topics.

Actually I liked why you had to say, and you said it bettter than I would.

As for positive criticism-
Quote
My wife seemed to be turned off by the Catholic’s “worship of Saints” which, I admit, I have seen in times past. Saints must be given honor while God alone receives worship. I think that this abuse- that is, undue attention given to Saints at the expense of Christ- sullies the whole practice of asking the “Communion of Saints” to prayer for us.

You are right that Orthodox dont worship saints. It is my opinion that Catholicism does emphasize the Theotokos alot more than Orthodoxy with the Marian apparitions etc. But she does appear as a very important saint for Orthodox, compared to the Ark because she bore God.

However, I am not aware of other saints in Catholicism given particularly more homage than in Orthodoxy.
I thought you did a good job in the rest of your post explaining our attitude. I met protestants who "talk" aloud or silently to their dead relatives who they believe are with God. So I think it is ok. I don't know how Catholicism or Orthodoxy gives undue attention to other saints at the expense of Jesus beyond what you described as appropriate earlier.

Yeah I liked what you had to say.

Hal
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genesisone
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« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2010, 07:37:42 AM »

Jim, the picture doesn't look very Orthodox  Smiley.

But I agree that you did a fine job trying to describe our relationship with the saints to your Protestant family and friends. Any errors you may have are mine as well, as I am blind to them.
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Mister Jim Dude
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« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2010, 03:12:33 AM »

Hal,
Thanks for your comments.

I have always sensed that the RC emphesised the devotion to Mary almost to excess...it seems Orthodoxy does it right once again.  The correct amount of honor is display to the Theotokos, at least that is what I sense when I read/attend Vespers. I think that many times RC practices muddy the waters of understanding regarding Orhtodoxy. People confuse the two.
Jim,

It looks good. Orthodox are not "Jesuitical". You can express different opinions on such general topics.

Actually I liked why you had to say, and you said it bettter than I would.

As for positive criticism-
Quote
My wife seemed to be turned off by the Catholic’s “worship of Saints” which, I admit, I have seen in times past. Saints must be given honor while God alone receives worship. I think that this abuse- that is, undue attention given to Saints at the expense of Christ- sullies the whole practice of asking the “Communion of Saints” to prayer for us.

You are right that Orthodox dont worship saints. It is my opinion that Catholicism does emphasize the Theotokos alot more than Orthodoxy with the Marian apparitions etc. But she does appear as a very important saint for Orthodox, compared to the Ark because she bore God.

However, I am not aware of other saints in Catholicism given particularly more homage than in Orthodoxy.
I thought you did a good job in the rest of your post explaining our attitude. I met protestants who "talk" aloud or silently to their dead relatives who they believe are with God. So I think it is ok. I don't know how Catholicism or Orthodoxy gives undue attention to other saints at the expense of Jesus beyond what you described as appropriate earlier.

Yeah I liked what you had to say.

Hal
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Mister Jim Dude
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« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2010, 03:14:40 AM »

I know the picture doesn't look very Orthodox...I was actually trying to depict a godly pentacostal church lady that I mentioned in the blog...that pic was the best I could do!
 laugh
Jim, the picture doesn't look very Orthodox  Smiley.

But I agree that you did a fine job trying to describe our relationship with the saints to your Protestant family and friends. Any errors you may have are mine as well, as I am blind to them.
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augustin717
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« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2010, 03:25:01 AM »

Hal,
Thanks for your comments.

I have always sensed that the RC emphesised the devotion to Mary almost to excess...it seems Orthodoxy does it right once again.  The correct amount of honor is display to the Theotokos, at least that is what I sense when I read/attend Vespers. I think that many times RC practices muddy the waters of understanding regarding Orhtodoxy. People confuse the two.
Jim,

It looks good. Orthodox are not "Jesuitical". You can express different opinions on such general topics.

Actually I liked why you had to say, and you said it bettter than I would.

As for positive criticism-
Quote
My wife seemed to be turned off by the Catholic’s “worship of Saints” which, I admit, I have seen in times past. Saints must be given honor while God alone receives worship. I think that this abuse- that is, undue attention given to Saints at the expense of Christ- sullies the whole practice of asking the “Communion of Saints” to prayer for us.

You are right that Orthodox dont worship saints. It is my opinion that Catholicism does emphasize the Theotokos alot more than Orthodoxy with the Marian apparitions etc. But she does appear as a very important saint for Orthodox, compared to the Ark because she bore God.

However, I am not aware of other saints in Catholicism given particularly more homage than in Orthodoxy.
I thought you did a good job in the rest of your post explaining our attitude. I met protestants who "talk" aloud or silently to their dead relatives who they believe are with God. So I think it is ok. I don't know how Catholicism or Orthodoxy gives undue attention to other saints at the expense of Jesus beyond what you described as appropriate earlier.

Yeah I liked what you had to say.

Hal
Actually the Latin liturgy contains far fewer references to the Holy Mother, than our Orthodox liturgy.
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« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2010, 11:08:15 AM »

Hal,
Thanks for your comments.

I have always sensed that the RC emphesised the devotion to Mary almost to excess...it seems Orthodoxy does it right once again.  The correct amount of honor is display to the Theotokos, at least that is what I sense when I read/attend Vespers. I think that many times RC practices muddy the waters of understanding regarding Orhtodoxy. People confuse the two.
Jim,

It looks good. Orthodox are not "Jesuitical". You can express different opinions on such general topics.

Actually I liked why you had to say, and you said it bettter than I would.

As for positive criticism-
Quote
My wife seemed to be turned off by the Catholic’s “worship of Saints” which, I admit, I have seen in times past. Saints must be given honor while God alone receives worship. I think that this abuse- that is, undue attention given to Saints at the expense of Christ- sullies the whole practice of asking the “Communion of Saints” to prayer for us.

You are right that Orthodox dont worship saints. It is my opinion that Catholicism does emphasize the Theotokos alot more than Orthodoxy with the Marian apparitions etc. But she does appear as a very important saint for Orthodox, compared to the Ark because she bore God.

However, I am not aware of other saints in Catholicism given particularly more homage than in Orthodoxy.
I thought you did a good job in the rest of your post explaining our attitude. I met protestants who "talk" aloud or silently to their dead relatives who they believe are with God. So I think it is ok. I don't know how Catholicism or Orthodoxy gives undue attention to other saints at the expense of Jesus beyond what you described as appropriate earlier.

Yeah I liked what you had to say.

Hal
Actually the Latin liturgy contains far fewer references to the Holy Mother, than our Orthodox liturgy.

And Latins NEVER ask the Theotokos to "save" them.

M.
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« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2010, 01:43:42 AM »

Hal,
Thanks for your comments.

I have always sensed that the RC emphesised the devotion to Mary almost to excess...it seems Orthodoxy does it right once again.  The correct amount of honor is display to the Theotokos, at least that is what I sense when I read/attend Vespers. I think that many times RC practices muddy the waters of understanding regarding Orhtodoxy. People confuse the two.

Agreed!  angel

In some ways Theotokos is mentioned more in Orthodoxy, as the two posters mentioned, but she is not emphasized in the way the Catholic Church does with Mary Apparitions, rosaries, Statues, devotions, the immaculate conception, and a trend toward calling her co-Redemptrix, etc. This is my perception, and to criticize Catholicism's attitude toward Theotokos is not disrespectful of her, I believe. I think I also heard some saying that she was not perfect, maybe based on John 2:4 (I forget what it was). Orthodox do give her respect with prayers, icons, and saying she is an Ark. Orthodox way is right praise, in my view.


Quote
I think that many times RC practices muddy the waters of understanding regarding Orhtodoxy.
The muddiness is more from people's common lack of understanding of Orthodoxy in the first place rather than muddying by Catholicism, as you will agree.

For example, Catholicism teaches transubstantiation, while most US protestants (who are not traditional protestants) teach the communion is only symbolic. For a long time I just assumed that the Catholic view was the same as the Orthodox one. Is that the fault of Catholicism? The fault is that I did not know Orthodox teaching in the first place.

It's not a personal failing. There are so many orthodox nuances and understandings, as you are finding out. The problem is that Orthodoxy came to the US with a part of the Industrial Revolution's Russian-Greek immigrants, into a society that otherwise knows only Catholicism and Protestantism.

We might as well be glad we know Catholicism so that we are aware that other ideas and ways of looking at things even exist.

 Cheesy
The more time you spend with orthodox the more you will learn about new things. I was in Orthodox church 10 years before I learned some nuances, and I am still learning. That is true for alot of Orthodox. Peace
« Last Edit: June 24, 2010, 01:57:57 AM by rakovsky » Logged
Mister Jim Dude
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« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2010, 02:30:38 AM »

 

 

 
 That is true...in fact, I don't think the Roman rite talks about Mary at all.
Quote
Actually the Latin liturgy contains far fewer references to the Holy Mother, than our Orthodox liturgy.
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Mister Jim Dude
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« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2010, 02:34:15 AM »

[
 True, but it seems to me that the RC's are better at getting their message across than the EO. 


Quote
I think that many times RC practices muddy the waters of understanding regarding Orhtodoxy.
The muddiness is more from people's common lack of understanding of Orthodoxy in the first place rather than muddying by Catholicism, as you will agree.

For example, Catholicism teaches transubstantiation, while most US protestants (who are not traditional protestants) teach the communion is only symbolic. For a long time I just assumed that the Catholic view was the same as the Orthodox one. Is that the fault of Catholicism? The fault is that I did not know Orthodox teaching in the first place.

It's not a personal failing. There are so many orthodox nuances and understandings, as you are finding out. The problem is that Orthodoxy came to the US with a part of the Industrial Revolution's Russian-Greek immigrants, into a society that otherwise knows only Catholicism and Protestantism.

We might as well be glad we know Catholicism so that we are aware that other ideas and ways of looking at things even exist.

 Cheesy
The more time you spend with orthodox the more you will learn about new things. I was in Orthodox church 10 years before I learned some nuances, and I am still learning. That is true for alot of Orthodox. Peace
[/quote]
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« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2010, 11:19:00 AM »

True, but it seems to me that the RC's are better at getting their message across than the EO.
Or is it just that the sheer weight of their numbers has made their message more visible to those of us in the western world?
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« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2010, 11:31:02 AM »



 

 
 That is true...in fact, I don't think the Roman rite talks about Mary at all.

Yes it does.
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« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2010, 12:51:00 PM »



 

 
 That is true...in fact, I don't think the Roman rite talks about Mary at all.

Yes it does.
"Communicantes, et memoriam venerantes, in primis gloriosae semper Virginis Mariae, Genetricis Dei et Domini nostri Jesu Christi..."
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« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2010, 08:23:49 PM »


You are most thoroughly impeached, sir.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2010, 08:24:15 PM by rakovsky » Logged
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