Author Topic: Bulgarian Orthodox Patriarch Neofit’s first year  (Read 2825 times)

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Offline Sirach

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Offline Gunnarr

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Re: Bulgarian Orthodox Patriarch Neofit’s first year
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2014, 02:58:40 PM »
Thanks for the article!
I am a demonic servant! Beware!

Offline Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)

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Re: Bulgarian Orthodox Patriarch Neofit’s first year
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2014, 05:38:45 PM »
A very positive article that makes me hopeful that the Bulgarian Church has indeed entered a new phase. Many years to Patriarch Neofit and his brother bishops!

Offline Basil 320

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Re: Bulgarian Orthodox Patriarch Neofit’s first year
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2014, 07:13:03 AM »
"Eis Polla Eti, Despota."
"...Strengthen the Orthodox Community..."

Offline Gorazd

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Re: Bulgarian Orthodox Patriarch Neofit’s first year
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2014, 10:24:37 AM »
"Eis Polla Eti, Despota."

Not.
The Bulgarian Patriarchate, for historical reasons and contrary to other Slavic local churches, avoids saying this in Greek.

"Na mnogaya leta, vladiko."

Offline Yurysprudentsiya

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Re: Bulgarian Orthodox Patriarch Neofit’s first year
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2014, 10:53:58 AM »
"Eis Polla Eti, Despota."

Not.
The Bulgarian Patriarchate, for historical reasons and contrary to other Slavic local churches, avoids saying this in Greek.

"Na mnogaya leta, vladiko."

Does Bulgarian also preserve the vocative case?   If so that is a neat fact. 

Offline Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)

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Re: Bulgarian Orthodox Patriarch Neofit’s first year
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2014, 11:00:35 AM »
"Eis Polla Eti, Despota."

Not.
The Bulgarian Patriarchate, for historical reasons and contrary to other Slavic local churches, avoids saying this in Greek.

"Na mnogaya leta, vladiko."

It also fits better to the arrangement most often used--Bortnyansky's. Here it is from Boris Christoff and the choir of the Alexander Nevsky Cathedral in Sofia, sung for the Bulgarian nation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU-Qe36GDPI
« Last Edit: March 25, 2014, 11:06:41 AM by Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) »

Offline Sirach

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Re: Bulgarian Orthodox Patriarch Neofit’s first year
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2014, 01:59:49 PM »
A little background please.  What is the significance of the phrase as it relates to Patriarch Neofit?

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Bulgarian Orthodox Patriarch Neofit’s first year
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2014, 02:42:21 PM »
"Eis Polla Eti, Despota."

Not.
The Bulgarian Patriarchate, for historical reasons and contrary to other Slavic local churches, avoids saying this in Greek.

"Na mnogaya leta, vladiko."

Does Bulgarian also preserve the vocative case?   If so that is a neat fact. 

Rusyns phrase it "Na mnohaja Lita, Vladyko." in conversation. The Orthodox use "Eis polla eti Despota" liturgically. Sometime after world war two, the Greek Catholics adopted "mnohaja lita." I think the same distinction applies to Ukraine as well, but correct me if I am in error.

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Bulgarian Orthodox Patriarch Neofit’s first year
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2014, 02:44:44 PM »
"Eis Polla Eti, Despota."

Not.
The Bulgarian Patriarchate, for historical reasons and contrary to other Slavic local churches, avoids saying this in Greek.

"Na mnogaya leta, vladiko."

It also fits better to the arrangement most often used--Bortnyansky's. Here it is from Boris Christoff and the choir of the Alexander Nevsky Cathedral in Sofia, sung for the Bulgarian nation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU-Qe36GDPI


Wow! The acoustics are awesome. It sounds like thousands.

Offline Yurysprudentsiya

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Re: Bulgarian Orthodox Patriarch Neofit’s first year
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2014, 02:44:57 PM »
"Eis Polla Eti, Despota."

Not.
The Bulgarian Patriarchate, for historical reasons and contrary to other Slavic local churches, avoids saying this in Greek.

"Na mnogaya leta, vladiko."

Does Bulgarian also preserve the vocative case?   If so that is a neat fact. 

Rusyns phrase it "Na mnohaja Lita, Vladyko." in conversation. The Orthodox use "Eis polla eti Despota" liturgically. Sometime after world war two, the Greek Catholics adopted "mnohaja lita." I think the same distinction applies to Ukraine as well, but correct me if I am in error.

We say it in Greek.   I don't know what the UGCC says.  

What interests me is that Vladyka is the nominative case of Master.  Vladyko is the vocative case, used in direct address.  Ukrainian retains the vocative case but Russian doesn't.  It is interesting to me to know if Bulgarian and Rusyn also retain it.  

Offline Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)

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Re: Bulgarian Orthodox Patriarch Neofit’s first year
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2014, 05:02:10 PM »
"Eis Polla Eti, Despota."

Not.
The Bulgarian Patriarchate, for historical reasons and contrary to other Slavic local churches, avoids saying this in Greek.

"Na mnogaya leta, vladiko."

It also fits better to the arrangement most often used--Bortnyansky's. Here it is from Boris Christoff and the choir of the Alexander Nevsky Cathedral in Sofia, sung for the Bulgarian nation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU-Qe36GDPI


I think that the piece above is sung in Church Slavonic--as are most  services in the Bulgarian Church. I think that the only time Bulgarian per se is used is for the homily, the Lords Prayer and the Creed.

Offline Gorazd

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Re: Bulgarian Orthodox Patriarch Neofit’s first year
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2014, 05:28:31 PM »
Bulgarian and Macedonian have no cases at all, but have definite article suffixes, opposed to all other Slavic languages who have no articles, but many cases. "vladiko" is Church Slavonic.

The amount of Bulgarian seems to vary... with a tendancy to more Church Slavonic in monasteries and more Bulgarian in parishes. But I have seen lots of variants during my visits to Bulgaria. Also, some use polyphonic chant, others use byzantine chant, again others use byzantine for orthros and polyphonic for liturgy. Some told me that all-byzantine is an innovation of recent years, since the border with Greece is open.

Offline Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)

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Re: Bulgarian Orthodox Patriarch Neofit’s first year
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2014, 05:37:23 PM »
A little background please.  What is the significance of the phrase as it relates to Patriarch Neofit?

It means "Many years, master!" Master, Vladiko, Despota all mean the same thing and is used for any bishop, no matter what rank.

However, in the OCA, Ton Despotin/Eis pola eti, Despota is sung according to our rubrics (See http://www.holytrinitymission.org/books/english/hierarchical_services_rubrics.htm#_Toc71183821)

This wish can be extended for all occasions, preceded by an appropriate prayer. If the bishop is not present, we sing it twice in my parish; first, for for namedays, birthdays, anniversaries of all sorts, and second for travelers.

Offline Yurysprudentsiya

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Re: Bulgarian Orthodox Patriarch Neofit’s first year
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2014, 06:03:13 PM »
Bulgarian and Macedonian have no cases at all, but have definite article suffixes, opposed to all other Slavic languages who have no articles, but many cases. "vladiko" is Church Slavonic.

The amount of Bulgarian seems to vary... with a tendancy to more Church Slavonic in monasteries and more Bulgarian in parishes. But I have seen lots of variants during my visits to Bulgaria. Also, some use polyphonic chant, others use byzantine chant, again others use byzantine for orthros and polyphonic for liturgy. Some told me that all-byzantine is an innovation of recent years, since the border with Greece is open.

Interesting!   Thank you.

Offline Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)

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Re: Bulgarian Orthodox Patriarch Neofit’s first year
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2014, 11:31:10 AM »
Bulgarian and Macedonian have no cases at all, but have definite article suffixes, opposed to all other Slavic languages who have no articles, but many cases. "vladiko" is Church Slavonic.

The amount of Bulgarian seems to vary... with a tendancy to more Church Slavonic in monasteries and more Bulgarian in parishes. But I have seen lots of variants during my visits to Bulgaria. Also, some use polyphonic chant, others use byzantine chant, again others use byzantine for orthros and polyphonic for liturgy. Some told me that all-byzantine is an innovation of recent years, since the border with Greece is open.

Interesting!   Thank you.

Thank you, as well.

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Bulgarian Orthodox Patriarch Neofit’s first year
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2014, 11:58:48 AM »
A little background please.  What is the significance of the phrase as it relates to Patriarch Neofit?

It means "Many years, master!" Master, Vladiko, Despota all mean the same thing and is used for any bishop, no matter what rank.

However, in the OCA, Ton Despotin/Eis pola eti, Despota is sung according to our rubrics (See http://www.holytrinitymission.org/books/english/hierarchical_services_rubrics.htm#_Toc71183821)

This wish can be extended for all occasions, preceded by an appropriate prayer. If the bishop is not present, we sing it twice in my parish; first, for for namedays, birthdays, anniversaries of all sorts, and second for travelers.


As well as the rubric in ACROD.

Offline Sirach

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Re: Bulgarian Orthodox Patriarch Neofit’s first year
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2014, 12:30:33 PM »
... It means "Many years, master!" Master, Vladiko, Despota all mean the same thing and is used for any bishop, no matter what rank...

Thank you.

(Before my question, I tried to "Google translate" it to no avail.)