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Poll
Question: Were you a Protestant before (or are you still)?
Yes - I was. - 48 (65.8%)
No - I was born Orthodox. - 9 (12.3%)
No - I was Roman Catholic. - 9 (12.3%)
No - I did not identify as Christian. - 4 (5.5%)
No - I was atheist. - 0 (0%)
No - I was: (Specify). - 3 (4.1%)
I still am a Protestant. - 0 (0%)
Total Voters: 73

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Saint Iaint
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« on: June 13, 2010, 04:20:34 AM »

I'm trying to determine the demographic here at O.C.net...

Who are  you people?

I myself am from a Roman Catholic background - which I was born and baptized into.

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« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2010, 05:48:16 AM »

I was baptized RC, raised Episcopalian, now Jewish.
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« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2010, 06:36:55 AM »

I was baptized RC, raised Episcopalian, now Jewish.

I would love to hear about your spiritual journey. Please pm me.

I was baptized Lutheran. However, I don't believe I ever gave up Protestantism, because it means a protest against the Catholic church, and there are many shades of Protestantism. But this depends on how you define Protestantism. I accept the Church's writings as a very important authority, and I am not aware that any brand of Protestantism that accepts any of the church's writings as a very important authority outside the Bible.
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« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2010, 06:43:07 AM »

I was baptized RC, raised Episcopalian, now Jewish.

I would love to hear about your spiritual journey. Please pm me.
I

When I have time to write it down I'll be PM'ing it to several folks here who have asked.
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« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2010, 06:49:08 AM »

I was born, baptised and confirmed a Roman Catholic.  I then spent some time exploring various Christian Churches (mainly Orthodoxy and Anglicanism), other faiths, etc, all the while flirting with Agnosticism.  Spent 2-3 years as an Orthodox Catechumen (after exploring it for some time), then arrived in the warm bosom of Atheism/Humanism.
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« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2010, 08:01:03 AM »

Quote from: Tallitot
"I was baptized RC, raised Episcopalian, now Jewish."

WHAT?!?

But, but... I thought 'Jewish' was a race?

You've converted to reject the Saviour of the World? You've chosen to become anti-Christ?!?

Have you started to study the Talmud yet? May God help you Tallitot!



Quote from: Nebelpfade
"I was born, baptised and confirmed a Roman Catholic.  I then spent some time exploring various Christian Churches (mainly Orthodoxy and Anglicanism), other faiths, etc, all the while flirting with Agnosticism.  Spent 2-3 years as an Orthodox Catechumen (after exploring it for some time), then arrived in the warm bosom of Atheism/Humanism."

WHAT?!?

No offense - but...

"The fool has said in his heart, 'There is no God.'"
- Psalms 14:1, 53:1

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« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2010, 09:42:09 AM »

Former Lutheran, LCMS and later WELS.
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« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2010, 09:58:02 AM »

First exposed to Christianity in an Episcopal church; baptized Presbyterian in 1958, then by turns Lutheran, Americal Baptist, and Episcopalian; converted to Orthodoxy in 1992.
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« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2010, 10:38:29 AM »

Quote from: Tallitot
"I was baptized RC, raised Episcopalian, now Jewish."

WHAT?!?

But, but... I thought 'Jewish' was a race?

You've converted to reject the Saviour of the World? You've chosen to become anti-Christ?!?

Have you started to study the Talmud yet? May God help you Tallitot!



Quote from: Nebelpfade
"I was born, baptised and confirmed a Roman Catholic.  I then spent some time exploring various Christian Churches (mainly Orthodoxy and Anglicanism), other faiths, etc, all the while flirting with Agnosticism.  Spent 2-3 years as an Orthodox Catechumen (after exploring it for some time), then arrived in the warm bosom of Atheism/Humanism."

WHAT?!?

No offense - but...

"The fool has said in his heart, 'There is no God.'"
- Psalms 14:1, 53:1




Learn to tolerate other people's beliefs. I find your behaviour extremely offensive.
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« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2010, 10:44:36 AM »

But, but... I thought 'Jewish' was a race?

Some persons want to define Jewish as a "race" or ethnicity, others as a religion/faith and some might use either definition depending on their statements at a particular time. 

As to "race" there is one: the Human race.
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« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2010, 10:56:23 AM »

I was born in Kyiv (Kiev), one of the world's capitals of Holy Orthodoxy. Was exposed to Orthodoxy since I remember myself: saw beautiful churches with onion domes all around, heard bells ringing on Sunday mornings, etc. My grandfather had a huge collection of records of the Orthodox liturgical music, particularly Shalyapin's performances of the Ektenia of Great Supplication and other. Used to sneak into the St. Volodymyr cathedral during evening services, and could stand for an hour, listening to the choir and smelling incense and looking at the amazing icons and murals.

Yet, my family was very "Soviet," and I was not baptized at all in childhood. I was baptized here, in the USA, when I was already 46 years old, in 2004. The congregation that baptized me was PC(USA). I did not last there, though, and was finally received into the Orthodox Church by the Holy Mystery of Chrismation in February 2007. So, formally, speaking, yes, I am, too, a "former Protestant," but only very formally speaking.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2010, 10:57:42 AM by Heorhij » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2010, 11:10:27 AM »

Quote from: Feanor
"Learn to tolerate other people's beliefs. I find your behaviour extremely offensive."

But I said, "No offense"! 

Frankly - I could care less. Learn to tolerate my beliefs. I find your extreme offense to be even more offensive.



Quote from: Ebor
"As to "race" there is one: the Human race."

Amen to that Ebor... Amen to that!



Dear Heorhij,

Thank-you for your story! Amazing!

I'm glad to hear that you have found your way "back East" - so to speak! There is no doubt that God has brought you... it sounds as if you were always His!

God bless you... and God bless Holy Ukraine!
« Last Edit: June 13, 2010, 11:13:49 AM by Saint Iaint » Logged

Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute...

Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, not giving heed to Jewish fables and commandments of men who turn from the truth.
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« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2010, 03:14:15 PM »

But, but... I thought 'Jewish' was a race?

Some persons want to define Jewish as a "race" or ethnicity, others as a religion/faith and some might use either definition depending on their statements at a particular time.  

UH OH! NOT THIS DISCUSSION AGAIN!  Shocked Roll Eyes

This needs to be discussed on the "Jew" Definitions thread.
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,28125.msg445071/topicseen.html#msg445071
Otherwise, it we will spend alot on the kind of topic that trolls feed off of.



I will not feed the trolls..... I will not feed the trolls........ Oh, but this is a racist Troll..... Does that count?
« Last Edit: June 13, 2010, 03:15:41 PM by rakovsky » Logged
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« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2010, 04:38:35 PM »

I could care less.

Then why don't you?
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« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2010, 04:47:49 PM »

WHAT?!?

No offense - but...

"The fool has said in his heart, 'There is no God.'"
- Psalms 14:1, 53:1


No offence taken.  Though quoting the Bible to someone who views it as a mere compilation of man-made moral and religious tennants (no different than those of Marcus Aurelius or Immanuel Kant) seems fruitless.  laugh
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« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2010, 04:58:05 PM »

I was raised fairly secular, aside from sporadic references to God (my father was RC but never had me baptized or took me to church). I leaned toward atheism from the age of 5, when I asked my mom, "Why did God make thorn bushes?" and she didn't give me a satisfying answer. Flirted with paganism, Taoism, Sufism in high school, then militant atheism (anarchist-communist) for a few years. Eventually got burned out on political ideology and became a Buddhist in college. Learned about Orthodoxy from some rather random sources, dabbled in and out of it for a few years before I finally committed and got baptized April 2009.
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« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2010, 06:58:36 PM »


Quote from: Ebor
"As to "race" there is one: the Human race."

Amen to that Ebor... Amen to that!


Indeed. And Human race includes all persons from everywhere on the Earth and from all ethnic groups.  Human Beings who are created in the image of God so I don't see how any claims of genetics or ancestry has anything to do with a religious affiliation such as has been brought up in other threads.   Undecided

Ebor
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« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2010, 07:06:59 PM »

I was baptized RC, raised Episcopalian, now Jewish.

I would love to hear about your spiritual journey. Please pm me.
I

When I have time to write it down I'll be PM'ing it to several folks here who have asked.

If u don't mind put me on the PM list
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« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2010, 07:20:13 PM »

I was baptized RC, raised Episcopalian, now Jewish.

I would love to hear about your spiritual journey. Please pm me.
I

When I have time to write it down I'll be PM'ing it to several folks here who have asked.

If u don't mind put me on the PM list

Me too, Tallitot, me too! Smiley
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« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2010, 07:51:55 PM »

Quote
Me too, Tallitot, me too
Quote
If u don't mind put me on the PM list

If you copy everyone we can have our own off-forum thread.

« Last Edit: June 13, 2010, 07:52:23 PM by rakovsky » Logged
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« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2010, 08:24:17 PM »

Raised Catholic and Baptist, mom Catholic, dad Baptist- grandma would take me the Baptist church sometimes, at home attended Catholic services. Left the church when I was 18, but still believed, probably more agnostic in my feelings regarding the churches. When I married, ex-hubby was Lutheran, started going with him. Later went to non-denom.  Started really questioning things, reading lots of stuff, researching, started attending the Catholic church again, but didn't go to confession or communion  was questioning stuff, discovered Orthodoxy, and here I am. Smiley
« Last Edit: June 13, 2010, 08:25:18 PM by mersch » Logged
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« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2010, 10:07:17 PM »

Born, baptized and raised Lutheran in the LCMS mainly though I was baptized in the LCA (a forerunner to the modern ELCA).  I experimented with Catholicism during my college years thinking that was what I would eventually become but was frustrated because the Mass was celebrated no differently than the LCMS church I was raised in, save for a hymn or two to Mary.  Found Orthodoxy once I got to Nebraska, of all places!
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« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2010, 06:18:54 PM »

Hmmmmm.

Exploring Oriental Orthodoxy right now. Was previously Eastern Orthodox. Before that I was a denominationally undecided Protestant who was exploring various different traditions. Before that I was into Buddhism (though whether I was properly a Buddhist at that point I don't know). Before that I was undecided about any particular religion or the existence of God. And before that I was a strong atheist, believing that God did not exist. And I was raised in a home of no particular religious bias.
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« Reply #23 on: June 14, 2010, 06:27:17 PM »

Raised Catholic and Baptist, mom Catholic, dad Baptist- grandma would take me the Baptist church sometimes, at home attended Catholic services.

This is me exactly! Raised Roman Catholic and Southern Baptist.
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« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2010, 09:52:02 PM »

"I could care less."

"Then why don't you?"

I can't help it if people are offended for silly reasons.

I understand where you're coming from... and maybe I'm a little too defensive - but I mean come on! Get a helmet Feanor! If you're going to be "offended" at least have a good reason.



Quote from: Nebelpfade
"Though quoting the Bible to someone who views it as a mere compilation of man-made moral and religious tennants (no different than those of Marcus Aurelius or Immanuel Kant) seems fruitless."

The Bible does not just contain "man-made moral and religious tenets "...

The Bible is the historical record of the prophecies and subsequent fulfilments of those prophecies regarding God becoming a man to save His creation from the curse of death.

The compound fruition of all of the O.T. prophetic predictions regarding the birth and death of the Messiah was against all reasonable odds... indeed was virtually impossible and yet - they all came to be!

How can you deny this fact? You have decided that the truth is a lie! You're dancing with the unforgivable sin friend...



Quote from: Ebor
"I don't see how any claims of genetics or ancestry has anything to do with a religious affiliation such as has been brought up in other threads."

Which was exactly my point! They are the ones who classify themselves as a race - not I!



Thanks to all who have replied... Some good stories!

A couple of questions though:

Quote
... "Me too, Tallitot, me too!"

Ahem...

  • Why are so many people here so accepting; indeed so very enamored  with someone who has rejected Jesus Christ? Would you all be equally impressed with a new convert to the 'church of Satan' (which was - incidentally also founded by a so-called 'Jew')?

  • Why is it that out of the 272 people who have viewed this poll... only 37 people have replied?!? It's completely anonymous just to answer the poll! How many of those two hundred and thirty-some odd people who didn't  reply are also Protestants?

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Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute...

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« Reply #25 on: June 14, 2010, 10:00:33 PM »

Raised Catholic and Baptist, mom Catholic, dad Baptist- grandma would take me the Baptist church sometimes, at home attended Catholic services.

This is me exactly! Raised Roman Catholic and Southern Baptist.

You know, you are the one who told me about The Dessert Wisdom Book Store (which I love BTW, thank you  Smiley  ) at St. Mary's of Egypt.  I saw the article about your priest and their ministry in the Pitch!  When I first saw that on the cover, I thought, oh no, here's the pitch doing a religion slam thing again, but it was a favorable article, much to my surprise!  Nice to have someone on here from the Kansas City metro area!
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« Reply #26 on: June 14, 2010, 10:03:35 PM »

There have been 270-some views of this thread, not unique visitors. You yourself, by checking and replying several times, have produced at least 3 or 4 of those views.

Also, your poll is totally inapplicable to many people here, who have known no religious affiliation other than Orthodoxy.
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« Reply #27 on: June 14, 2010, 11:11:59 PM »

Quote
•Why are so many people here so accepting; indeed so very enamored  with someone who has rejected Jesus Christ? Would you all be equally impressed with a new convert to the 'church of Satan' (which was - incidentally also founded by a so-called 'Jew')?

Since when is it a sin to show a sincere interest in another person's life, particularly in the case of Tallitot, who has been a long-standing member of this forum?  I also think it rather inappropriate to compare mainstream Judaism with the "church of satan", to say the least. 
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« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2010, 11:22:10 PM »

I think people are being shockingly polite with you, Saint Iaint, for how you have been acting on these forums.
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« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2010, 11:28:24 PM »

technically I was born Orthodox and voted that. BUT, my mother was catholic (although she was Buddhist in demeanor,but her mom was very catholic however) and my father was only Orthodox because it was needed to identify as a Serb, yet I don't think hes ever believed in God. Good old communism.

I was Agnostic up until maybe the age of 15 when I seriously began to believe in God and began to do serious research on all Abrahamic religions... and by "process of elimination" I ended up with Orthodoxy (Eastern and Oriental)  Grin
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« Reply #30 on: June 15, 2010, 12:32:43 AM »

Quote from: pensateomnia
"There have been 270-some views of this thread, not unique visitors. You yourself, by checking and replying several times, have produced at least 3 or 4 of those views."

Ah... yes, I see. Thanks. Good call.

Quote
"Also, your poll is totally inapplicable to many people here, who have known no religious affiliation other than Orthodoxy."

Hmmm. I'm pretty sure I've allowed for all possibilities. No?



Quote from: Rosehip
"I also think it rather inappropriate to compare mainstream Judaism with the "church of satan", to say the least."

Well... they're both anti-Christ and they were both founded by 'Jews'.

"I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan."
- Revelation 2:9

"Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie--indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you."
- Revelation 3:9




Quote from: deusveritasest
"I think people are being shockingly polite with you, Saint Iaint, for how you have been acting on these forums."

Oh? How have I been "acting"?



Quote from: Sloga
"I ended up with Orthodoxy (Eastern and Oriental)"

I'm pretty sure you have to pick one Sloga! ... No?
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Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, not giving heed to Jewish fables and commandments of men who turn from the truth.
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« Reply #31 on: June 15, 2010, 01:12:20 AM »

The Bible is the historical record of the prophecies and subsequent fulfilments of those prophecies regarding God becoming a man to save His creation from the curse of death.

The compound fruition of all of the O.T. prophetic predictions regarding the birth and death of the Messiah was against all reasonable odds... indeed was virtually impossible and yet - they all came to be!

How can you deny this fact? You have decided that the truth is a lie! You're dancing with the unforgivable sin friend...
I read your posts within "Why Christianity?" and was thoroughly unimpressed by your various comments on prophecy, statistical odds, etc.  As were many of your fellow Christians...
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« Reply #32 on: June 15, 2010, 01:26:09 AM »

Quote
•Why are so many people here so accepting; indeed so very enamored  with someone who has rejected Jesus Christ?

Since when is it a sin to show a sincere interest in another person's life, particularly in the case of Tallitot, who has been a long-standing member of this forum?

Yes, the person converted without giving an explanation, so it is interesting why he did this and could be a matter of concern etc.

I did think the "Me toos" were funny though.  Smiley
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« Reply #33 on: June 15, 2010, 01:30:49 AM »

The Bible is the historical record of the prophecies and subsequent fulfilments of those prophecies regarding God becoming a man to save His creation from the curse of death.
The compound fruition of all of the O.T. prophetic predictions regarding the birth and death of the Messiah was against all reasonable odds... indeed was virtually impossible and yet - they all came to be!
I read your posts within "Why Christianity?" and was thoroughly unimpressed by your various comments on prophecy, statistical odds, etc. 

I would be interested in a sincere computation of the events in Daniel 9 predicting when exactly the Messiah would come.
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« Reply #34 on: June 15, 2010, 04:45:13 AM »

"I could care less."

"Then why don't you?"

I can't help it if people are offended for silly reasons.

I understand where you're coming from... and maybe I'm a little too defensive - but I mean come on! Get a helmet Feanor! If you're going to be "offended" at least have a good reason.



Quote from: Nebelpfade
"Though quoting the Bible to someone who views it as a mere compilation of man-made moral and religious tennants (no different than those of Marcus Aurelius or Immanuel Kant) seems fruitless."

The Bible does not just contain "man-made moral and religious tenets "...

The Bible is the historical record of the prophecies and subsequent fulfilments of those prophecies regarding God becoming a man to save His creation from the curse of death.

The compound fruition of all of the O.T. prophetic predictions regarding the birth and death of the Messiah was against all reasonable odds... indeed was virtually impossible and yet - they all came to be!

How can you deny this fact? You have decided that the truth is a lie! You're dancing with the unforgivable sin friend...



Quote from: Ebor
"I don't see how any claims of genetics or ancestry has anything to do with a religious affiliation such as has been brought up in other threads."

Which was exactly my point! They are the ones who classify themselves as a race - not I!



Thanks to all who have replied... Some good stories!

A couple of questions though:

Quote
... "Me too, Tallitot, me too!"

Ahem...

  • Why are so many people here so accepting; indeed so very enamored  with someone who has rejected Jesus Christ? Would you all be equally impressed with a new convert to the 'church of Satan' (which was - incidentally also founded by a so-called 'Jew')?

  • Why is it that out of the 272 people who have viewed this poll... only 37 people have replied?!? It's completely anonymous just to answer the poll! How many of those two hundred and thirty-some odd people who didn't  reply are also Protestants?



I'll pray for you.
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« Reply #35 on: June 15, 2010, 05:15:54 AM »

Quote from: Nebelpfade
"I read your posts within "Why Christianity?" and was thoroughly unimpressed by your various comments on prophecy, statistical odds, etc.  As were many of your fellow Christians..."

Which of my "fellow Christians" said anything about it? I never saw anyone mention it.

How can you be unimpressed with odds like this?:

One chance in -

100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.

And that was only the odds of fulfilling 48 prophecies... As I've detailed - there were over 450 O.T. prophecies fulfilled in Jesus the Christ! This page probably isn't big enough to hold the zeros in the number that would result from calculating those odds.

I must reiterate... How can you fathomably deny the sheer impossibility of these numbers?!?



Quote from: rakovsky
"I did think the "Me toos" were funny though."

Me too!

Quote
"I would be interested in a sincere computation of the events in Daniel 9 predicting when exactly the Messiah would come."

Me too!

Say... Isn't Nebelpfade a mathematician? Oh, no - wait... a computationalist. I'll bet he could figure it out (if he can find a big enough calculator!)



Quote from: Feanor
"I'll pray for you."

Well thanks... I certainly need it! But why don't you just tell me why you were so offended?
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« Reply #36 on: June 15, 2010, 09:18:04 AM »

Beloved in the Lord,

I note the Convert Issues Forum is getting a bit frisky and contentious on this topic for some reason. May I remind you that the purpose of the Convert issues forum is to provide a place on the OC.Net where inquirers, catechumen, and newly converted could ask their questions about the Orthodox Faith in a safe and supportive forum without retribution or recrimination. Many of those posting in this area are ignorant of Orthodox teachings and are using this forum to understand what are the basic teachings and practices of the Orthodox churches. Due to the simplicity of many of their requests and responses, direct and simple answers with sources if possible are most helpful... The convert forum is not a place for combative debate or arguement. 

Thank you for your following these guidelines to the edification and spiritual growth of the forum inquirers, catechumen, and newly converted.

In Christ,
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« Reply #37 on: June 15, 2010, 10:01:47 AM »

I'm trying to determine the demographic here at O.C.net...

Who are  you people?

I myself am from a Roman Catholic background - which I was born and baptized into.



May I ask why you are not in any given Orthodox Church right now?
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« Reply #38 on: June 15, 2010, 01:57:06 PM »

Quote from: deusveritasest
"I think people are being shockingly polite with you, Saint Iaint, for how you have been acting on these forums."

Oh? How have I been "acting"?

Extremely condescending.
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« Reply #39 on: June 15, 2010, 02:02:42 PM »

I was baptized RC, raised Episcopalian, now Jewish.

I would love to hear about your spiritual journey. Please pm me.
I

When I have time to write it down I'll be PM'ing it to several folks here who have asked.

Feel free to PM this to me as well. As for the OP, I was Protestant for a while.
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« Reply #40 on: June 15, 2010, 02:26:09 PM »

I was raised as a Roman Catholic of the Charismatic variety. In late high school/early college, I flirted with protestantism (American Evangelicalism) and after serious scripture study, and the movement of the Holy Spirit, I became solidly Roman Catholic. After reading the Fathers of the Church and Cardinal Ratzinger's The Spirit of the Liturgy, I adopted a very traditional Roman Catholic stance on spirituality and the liturgy. You can now consider me a Traditional/Thomistic Roman Catholic who has a great love for the Byzantine East and theologians such St. John of Damascus.
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« Reply #41 on: June 15, 2010, 04:10:17 PM »

I was baptized Presbyterian as an infant, but never was taken to church.  dad is Roman Catholic, mum is (non-practicing) Protestant.  I really had no specific religous denom. except "Christian".
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« Reply #42 on: June 15, 2010, 04:21:27 PM »

WHAT?!?

No offense - but...

"The fool has said in his heart, 'There is no God.'"
- Psalms 14:1, 53:1


No offence taken.  Though quoting the Bible to someone who views it as a mere compilation of man-made moral and religious tennants (no different than those of Marcus Aurelius or Immanuel Kant) seems fruitless.  laugh

The Apostle Paul said in season and out of season....second, what does fruitlessness have to do with it....? 
However, can anyone really think they can argue sight into another mans vision?   

John
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« Reply #43 on: June 15, 2010, 04:25:15 PM »

Ever hear of the story of the ugly duckling?

That is my story of being a Protestant...it was where I was raised, it was what I knew, but then I saw others who were more like me and whom I wanted to be more like.

Was I ever a Protestant? Yes, but my heart wasn't in it.

John
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« Reply #44 on: June 15, 2010, 06:47:56 PM »

Quote from: Thomas
"I note the Convert Issues Forum is getting a bit frisky and contentious on this topic for some reason."

My apologies. I've been somewhat on the defensive since I got here... I'll try to bite my tongue.



Quote from: Second Chance
"May I ask why you are not in any given Orthodox Church right now?"

Sure. While I have been solidly Orthodox in belief for a couple of years now... I was without a Church. The nearest Church was over 3 hours drive from where I live (and I don't drive).

I was actually planning on moving as soon as possible just so I could join that congregation. However - thanks be to God, a new Church just opened about 10 mins. from my house! Apparently they had been (unbeknownst to me) meeting in a local funeral chapel!

It is a Ukrainian Orthodox Church... and once I've finally been Chrismated I will change my jurisdictional status. Technically I'm not really a member of the community until I can receive the Eucharist.



Quote from: deusveritasest
"I think people are being shockingly polite with you, Saint Iaint, for how you have been acting on these forums."

Oh? How have I been "acting"?

Extremely condescending.

I'm sorry if I came off that way... that really was not my intention.

Can you accept my sincere apology now?
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« Reply #45 on: June 15, 2010, 06:52:57 PM »

Quote from: deusveritasest
"I think people are being shockingly polite with you, Saint Iaint, for how you have been acting on these forums."

Oh? How have I been "acting"?

Extremely condescending.

I'm sorry if I came off that way... that really was not my intention.

Can you accept my sincere apology now?

 Shocked

Yeah, sure.  Smiley
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« Reply #46 on: June 15, 2010, 09:46:37 PM »

Quote from: Tallitot
"I was baptized RC, raised Episcopalian, now Jewish."

WHAT?!?

But, but... I thought 'Jewish' was a race?

You've converted to reject the Saviour of the World? You've chosen to become anti-Christ?!?

Have you started to study the Talmud yet? May God help you Tallitot!



Quote from: Nebelpfade
"I was born, baptised and confirmed a Roman Catholic.  I then spent some time exploring various Christian Churches (mainly Orthodoxy and Anglicanism), other faiths, etc, all the while flirting with Agnosticism.  Spent 2-3 years as an Orthodox Catechumen (after exploring it for some time), then arrived in the warm bosom of Atheism/Humanism."

WHAT?!?

No offense - but...

"The fool has said in his heart, 'There is no God.'"
- Psalms 14:1, 53:1



Dear Saint Iaint,

Welcome to OC.net.

As others have indicated, your reaction to Tallitot and Nebelpfade's belief system is a bit on the rude side. Since you are the "new kid in the town," you may not realize that these veterans of OC.net have been around a long time, and have gone through a process to arrive where they are today spiritually speaking. Those of us who have been on these forums for a while are aware of this, and respect their choices, and still covet their input on threads.

Since you are in the process of converting to Orthodoxy, you should be understanding of what it is like to go on a Spiritual Journey, and end up in a place you didn't expect to be. While your journey has lead to you to the Orthodox Church, their respective journeys have led them away from the Church.

While as Orthodox Christians we may disagree with them, we still love, respect, and pray for them.

Furthermore, I think now that you will have the opportunity to experience parish life in the Orthodox Church, I believe you will see that we are not quick to judge anyone, for we do not know how God works. It is a mystery. So we pray for them, and leave the rest in God's hands.

I pray you enjoy the rest of your time here on OC.net.

God bless,

Maureen
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« Reply #47 on: June 15, 2010, 11:26:21 PM »

Quote from: Tallitot
"I was baptized RC, raised Episcopalian, now Jewish."

WHAT?!?

But, but... I thought 'Jewish' was a race?

You've converted to reject the Saviour of the World? You've chosen to become anti-Christ?!?

Have you started to study the Talmud yet? May God help you Tallitot!



Quote from: Nebelpfade
"I was born, baptised and confirmed a Roman Catholic.  I then spent some time exploring various Christian Churches (mainly Orthodoxy and Anglicanism), other faiths, etc, all the while flirting with Agnosticism.  Spent 2-3 years as an Orthodox Catechumen (after exploring it for some time), then arrived in the warm bosom of Atheism/Humanism."

WHAT?!?

No offense - but...

"The fool has said in his heart, 'There is no God.'"
- Psalms 14:1, 53:1



Dear Saint Iaint,

Welcome to OC.net.

As others have indicated, your reaction to Tallitot and Nebelpfade's belief system is a bit on the rude side.

Yes, welcome to O.C. Net, where proclaiming the Truth is considered rude.
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« Reply #48 on: June 16, 2010, 12:11:52 AM »

Yes, welcome to O.C. Net, where proclaiming the Truth is considered rude.

<snicker> Nice.

OK, so S.I. came across pretty bluntly, yes.  And that won't make any friends or influence people.  Sure.

And, even though I've said since I came here (Man!  Six years ago?!), it's not what you say as much as it is how you say it...y'all do have to admit, we do a lot of pussyfooting around the truth in the name of "not judging."  So there's definitely a call for a believer to tell former believers that, yeah, they should still be believers, and that it troubles us (or it should!) that they no longer are.

So, welcome, S.I.  Thanks for calling it like you see it.  Maybe a tone adjustment?  (At this point, folks are going, "Well, look who thinks he's still a mod!"  Roll Eyes)

As for me...former Baptist, turned Bapti-costal, now Orthodox for almost a decade.

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« Reply #49 on: June 16, 2010, 03:19:31 AM »

I'm not sure what I should reply. I have not left the Evangelical Lutheran Church officially yet as I don't want to be churchless in between, but I don't believe in it. Currently I believe that i have finally found the true original church in orthodoxy, but have not even started catechumen classes as they won't starte until september, and no one can yet be sure where this path leads me. So, I'm somewhere between "used to be protestant" and "still am".

My family was never religious, we only went to church once a year at christmas and that started because I wanted to go. (I was always the little christian in our family, I also used to read the bible a lot as kid. My parents never did. )
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« Reply #50 on: June 16, 2010, 04:23:35 AM »

I voted "Yes - I was"

Saint Iaint, is there some special reason why you want to know this? Please tell us.   Smiley
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« Reply #51 on: June 16, 2010, 05:03:21 AM »

And, even though I've said since I came here (Man!  Six years ago?!), it's not what you say as much as it is how you say it... [...]  So there's definitely a call for a believer to tell former believers that, yeah, they should still be believers, and that it troubles us (or it should!) that they no longer are.
I think these two parts sum up what most are saying.  Since my 'apostasy' I've received various private messages and comments directed at me.  They varied from well-wishes coupled with genuine concern, to open curiosity about my journey and beliefs, to blatant arrogance and minor hostility.  We non-Orthodox, and especially non-Christians, are well aware that you will follow and express what you believe 'the Truth' to be, and I doubt any would object to occurring on an Orthodox forum Tongue.  It is just like most things in life though, some do so with tact and prefer a discussion, while others just like to talk at you.
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« Reply #52 on: June 16, 2010, 06:58:23 AM »

I'm not sure what I should reply. I have not left the Evangelical Lutheran Church officially yet as I don't want to be churchless in between, but I don't believe in it. Currently I believe that i have finally found the true original church in orthodoxy, but have not even started catechumen classes as they won't starte until september, and no one can yet be sure where this path leads me. So, I'm somewhere between "used to be protestant" and "still am".

My family was never religious, we only went to church once a year at christmas and that started because I wanted to go. (I was always the little christian in our family, I also used to read the bible a lot as kid. My parents never did. )

Welcome to the forum!
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« Reply #53 on: June 16, 2010, 10:42:44 AM »

I was baptized RC, raised Episcopalian, now Jewish.

I would love to hear about your spiritual journey. Please pm me.

I was baptized Lutheran. However, I don't believe I ever gave up Protestantism, because it means a protest against the Catholic church, and there are many shades of Protestantism. But this depends on how you define Protestantism. I accept the Church's writings as a very important authority, and I am not aware that any brand of Protestantism that accepts any of the church's writings as a very important authority outside the Bible.
But many people criticize others as not understanding the Bible, which to me translates as having other sources of authority besides Scripture itself.
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« Reply #54 on: June 16, 2010, 01:45:03 PM »

Baptized Roman Catholic, raised pretty much secular (with a belief in God and Jesus though), became born again at 19, found Orthodoxy in my mid 20's, and am still here! Though I went from a "super Orthodox convert" to someone who now at least tries to admit he doesn't know everything, and in fact never will. Smiley

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« Reply #55 on: June 16, 2010, 01:47:21 PM »

I was baptized RC, raised Episcopalian, now Jewish.

I would love to hear about your spiritual journey. Please pm me.
I

When I have time to write it down I'll be PM'ing it to several folks here who have asked.

I also would like to hear your story, if you don't mind! Smiley
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« Reply #56 on: June 16, 2010, 01:50:04 PM »

I was born, baptised and confirmed a Roman Catholic.  I then spent some time exploring various Christian Churches (mainly Orthodoxy and Anglicanism), other faiths, etc, all the while flirting with Agnosticism.  Spent 2-3 years as an Orthodox Catechumen (after exploring it for some time), then arrived in the warm bosom of Atheism/Humanism.

If you wouldn't mind, I'd like you hear of your journey as well. Feel free to PM me. If not, that's fine too. But as they say about curiousity....well good thing I'm not a cat. Smiley
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« Reply #57 on: June 16, 2010, 06:32:34 PM »

I was baptized Lutheran. However, I don't believe I ever gave up Protestantism, because it means a protest against the Catholic church, and there are many shades of Protestantism. But this depends on how you define Protestantism. I accept the Church's writings as a very important authority, and I am not aware that any brand of Protestantism that accepts any of the church's writings as a very important authority outside the Bible.
But many people criticize others as not understanding the Bible, which to me translates as having other sources of authority besides Scripture itself.

ME: I might consider myself Protestant. BUT I accept the early church's interpretations to be a VERY IMPORTANT authority and I don't know any Protestant branch that does.

YOU: BUT many Protestants argue about scripture's meanings, so they accept another source outside the Bible

ME:
BUT do they use the early church's teachings as an authority when doing so?
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« Reply #58 on: June 16, 2010, 10:15:49 PM »

I was baptized Lutheran. However, I don't believe I ever gave up Protestantism, because it means a protest against the Catholic church, and there are many shades of Protestantism. But this depends on how you define Protestantism. I accept the Church's writings as a very important authority, and I am not aware that any brand of Protestantism that accepts any of the church's writings as a very important authority outside the Bible.
But many people criticize others as not understanding the Bible, which to me translates as having other sources of authority besides Scripture itself.

ME: I might consider myself Protestant. BUT I accept the early church's interpretations to be a VERY IMPORTANT authority and I don't know any Protestant branch that does.

YOU: BUT many Protestants argue about scripture's meanings, so they accept another source outside the Bible

ME:
BUT do they use the early church's teachings as an authority when doing so?
Maybe I was unclear about your initial comment
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« Reply #59 on: June 16, 2010, 11:55:03 PM »

If you wouldn't mind, I'd like you hear of your journey as well. Feel free to PM me. If not, that's fine too. But as they say about curiousity....well good thing I'm not a cat. Smiley

When I have some spare time I'll definitely write something up.
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« Reply #60 on: June 17, 2010, 03:38:43 AM »

Dear Maureen,

Thank-you for the warm welcome... I do appreciate it.

I wasn't really trying to be 'rude' - just direct and honest.

Quote from: HandmaidenofGod
"While as Orthodox Christians we may disagree with them, we still love, respect, and pray for them."

I feel if you really loved them - you would tell them they are making a huge mistake! What greater love is there than concern for someone's immortal soul? Would you rather if I politely allowed you to die... or 'rudely' saved your life?

"My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him. For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things. Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God."
- I John 3:18-21


Quote
"So we pray for them, and leave the rest in God's hands."

Hmmm. Well I agree we should pray that everyone to come to salvation in Christ - but aren't we also called first to be witnesses to the truth?

Paul said to those who rejected the Gospel:

"Therefore I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the blood of all men. For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God."
- Acts 20:26-27


Truth is paramount... If you see someone walking off a cliff on purpose - you tell them they're crazy & you try to stop them. Life is more important than niceties!

Joshua



See? Punch gets it! Thanks Punch!

Glad to have found this place...



Quote from: DavidBryan
"So, welcome, S.I.  Thanks for calling it like you see it.  Maybe a tone adjustment?"

Thanks to you as well! I will try (and I have been trying) to tone it down a notch... I have always been too blunt.

Nice to hear from you!



Quote from: Maj
"I have not left the Evangelical Lutheran Church officially yet as I don't want to be churchless in between, but I don't believe in it."

At the risk of offending someone else... I think once your belief becomes truly & fully Orthodox - you will know that the 'Evangelical Lutheran church' is in fact no Church at all! As long as you're outside of the Orthodox Church - you're already 'churchless'.

If I were you - I would attend the Orthodox Church. Even if you can't receive the Eucharist right away or start your Catechism, at least you can worship in truth. If you really believe you've found the true Church (you have)... then you should become a part of that community immediately.



Quote from: Robert W.
"Saint Iaint, is there some special reason why you want to know this? Please tell us."

Just had a hunch... Wanted to verify it. I think some people here are still harboring some level of Protestant 'baggage'.

I have already spent alot of time on an Evangelical website arguing and trying to witness for Orthodoxy. They tend to be very fond of the Zionist entity occupying Palestine and the so-called 'Jews'.

Some I would even go so far as to say - literally worship  the Zionists!

I count myself lucky in that while I still have alot to learn... at least I don't have much to 'unlearn'.



Thanks again to everyone for relaying your stories here... and please - Take no offense!
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Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, not giving heed to Jewish fables and commandments of men who turn from the truth.
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« Reply #61 on: June 17, 2010, 09:35:24 AM »

Beloved in the Lord,

I would like to remind all of you that  at the top of the Convert Issues Forum Listing is an area that you may post your conversion story if you wish. It is often edifying to converts and inquirers to be able to see the common points of how someone came into the Orthodox Church.

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« Reply #62 on: June 17, 2010, 10:54:45 AM »


I feel if you really loved them - you would tell them they are making a huge mistake! What greater love is there than concern for someone's immortal soul? Would you rather if I politely allowed you to die... or 'rudely' saved your life?

Exactly how do you expect to "rudely" save a non Christian's life to begin with? Do you not realize that many reject Christianity precisely because of all the bible/church father/canon thumping about burning in hell if you don't pass God's cosmic theology exam?

Then you have the other group of non Christians who genuinely just do not believe. They aren't rebelling against anything they just don't believe in the Christian message. Exactly how is threatening them with everlasting torture and torment going to convince them of the truth of Christ's message? (when in fact they A.) may believe another faith, or B.) may not believe in hell at all)


Quote
Hmmm. Well I agree we should pray that everyone to come to salvation in Christ - but aren't we also called first to be witnesses to the truth?


It's all in HOW one witnesses to that truth. Everyone is in a different place on their spiritual path. To assume every single person on the planet will come to Christ by the exact same method of witnessing is frankly not Christian at all. Jesus used many different methods to reach many different people. We should do the same, and realize that most people in our day and age just do not respond to the whole fire insurance version of Christianity. And in the end, is that even a good reason to become a Christian? To follow Christ just out of fear that one might go to hell if they don't? With that reckoning should we follow the religion that has the worst version of hell and join that faith, just in case we're wrong?




Quote
At the risk of offending someone else... I think once your belief becomes truly & fully Orthodox - you will know that the 'Evangelical Lutheran church' is in fact no Church at all! As long as you're outside of the Orthodox Church - you're already 'churchless'.

truly and fully Orthodox? But which Orthodox? OO? EO? Which EO? New Calendar, Old Calendar? What of the rare Old Calendar Eastern Orthodox, who believes that only their branch of Russian Orthodoxy is "truly Orthodox" while the Greek Old Calendar Churches are slightly less Orthodox than everyone else? Such people do exist.

As far as the ELCA not being a "real" Church? Who told you this? Only God can know such things. Did God call you on your cell phone and tell you this? Wink

I'm not trying to argue with you exactly. I know what it is that you are trying to say. But the way you say it does come off as a bit harsh. Even though I realize you're not meaning it to come off like that.

In the end, it has been my understanding that the Orthodox teaching is that we know where the Church is, but we do NOT know where it is not. So if this is true, we cannot possibly say the ELCA is not "any church at all", because that is just beyond any sort of human knowledge. Besides telling millions of Christians that they in fact are not part of a "real" Church, and may not be Christians at all is just not the best way of witnessing to people.

Put in more personal terms, I did not become a Christian because someone threatened me with hell, or because they bible thumped and tried to sell me cosmic fire insurance, I became a Christian because people showed me love and respect for who I was as a person. I became Orthodox not because I feared going to hell if I did not become Orthodox, but I became Orthodox because I was searching for truth, and because I believed it was the true Church. I have remained Orthodox, despite my own personal doubts, skepticisms, and other problems, NOT because someone told me if I leave I'll be tortured for all eternity if I leave, (in fact it is that line of reasoning that causes me more doubts than just about anything) but because of the Truth within the Church that still touches my inner being. Often this truth is revealed through the LOVE of others. That is my personal experience anyways. My experience is not everyone's experience. But that's the point I'm trying to make. Not everyone, responds to the methods that might have worked for you. Not to put down what does work for you, but Orthodox spirituality I don't believe is one size fits all. Which is part of it's beauty IMO.

Anyways, not trying to argue, just giving my POV. I hope there is no hard feelings.

edited to clarify and add personal testimony of sorts! Cheesy

« Last Edit: June 17, 2010, 11:05:49 AM by NorthernPines » Logged
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« Reply #63 on: June 17, 2010, 11:48:20 AM »



Quote from: Saint Iaint
" At the risk of offending someone else... I think once your belief becomes truly & fully Orthodox - you will know that the 'Evangelical Lutheran church' is in fact no Church at all! As long as you're outside of the Orthodox Church - you're already 'churchless'.

If I were you - I would attend the Orthodox Church. Even if you can't receive the Eucharist right away or start your Catechism, at least you can worship in truth. If you really believe you've found the true Church (you have)... then you should become a part of that community immediately. "

Sorry, I was quite unclear there.

I do not attend any services at the Lutheran church, I'm just a member on paper, and I'm already starting to get involved at the orthodox church.

I also agree that the Lutheran church is not a Church, I just don't want switch my papers from one registry to another in between. It will make my move to the orthodox church smoother. At the risk of boring people reading this; over here, we are all (citizens and aliens alike) registered to a registry; Lutheran, Orthodox, German parish, Olaus Petri parish or everyone else. To move from Lutheran to orthodox, I need to fill out one form for the orthodox parish, no need to seperately leave the Lutheran church. If I would leave now, I would have to seperately register as an orthodox, when I join.

I also want to identify myself as a chistian in between. There is so much anti-christian sentiment everywhere, that this is important to me.

Quote from: Saint Iaint
" I have already spent alot of time on an Evangelical website arguing and trying to witness for Orthodoxy. They tend to be very fond of the Zionist entity occupying Palestine and the so-called 'Jews'.

Some I would even go so far as to say - literally worship  the Zionists!

I count myself lucky in that while I still have alot to learn... at least I don't have much to 'unlearn'. "

You have to bring this up everywhere it seems. Stuff like this makes me think that you are just a troll, as you cannot let it go. I'm sorry, that you feel so badly against jews and israelis. Yes, they do deny Jesus as the lord, but so do the other 5 billion people in this world who are not christians.
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« Reply #64 on: June 17, 2010, 04:06:47 PM »

Quote from: NorthernPines
"Exactly how do you expect to "rudely" save a non Christian's life to begin with? Do you not realize that many reject Christianity precisely because of all the bible/church father/canon thumping about burning in hell if you don't pass God's cosmic theology exam?"

You've noted that I put the word 'rudely' in quotes... I did that because I don't feel I have been rude. At all. The truth is not rude.

I don't save anyone. The Church does. Jesus Christ does through His Church - through the Holy Spirit... through His Body and His Blood. If I can somehow help to bring someone into communion with Him and His Church... their life will be saved.

I never said anything to anyone about going to hell. Salvation does not come through a "cosmic theology exam"... Salvation comes through sincere repentance, faith in the Christ Jesus, Baptism and the reception of the Holy Spirit in Chrismation, and the in partaking of Christ's Body and Blood in the Eucharist.

There are definitely no hard feelings - but I'd rather not get into the rest of your post here. PM me if you wish. I will say this in closing... Your statement that we know where the Church is - but we don't know where it isn't is contradictory. There is ONE Church... and there is likewise only ONE truth.



Quote from: Maj
"You have to bring this up everywhere it seems. Stuff like this makes me think that you are just a troll, as you cannot let it go. I'm sorry, that you feel so badly against jews and israelis. Yes, they do deny Jesus as the lord, but so do the other 5 billion people in this world who are not Christians."

And... you prove my point for me!

All I have to do is mention 'Jews' - and I get jumped on! All I said there was that Protestants (or - I'm learning  - also some former Protestants) seem to be overly, inexpicably fond of them... that some virtually worship them. I never said one negative thing about 'Jews' in that post!

But here you are calling me a "troll"... What is it with this "troll" garbage?!?

How can I be a "troll" on a poll/thread that I started?!? What - are you saying I'm trying to derail my own thread? Why are people so damned sensitive about 'Jews'? People have no problem calling Muslims down to the lowest... but just mention the word 'Jew' and everyone's up-in-arms!

This despite the fact that the Muslim Qu'aran shows great respect for Jesus AND His Mother (whose virgin birth they also affirm)... compared to the 'Jewish' Talmud which says that Jesus was a bastard;  a sorcerer Who performed magic with His penis, and by cutting His flesh - and that He is currently in hell, in a vat of boiling excrement, and that His Holy Mother the Theotokos was a whore who bore Jesus after having had sex with a Roman soldier!!

It's one thing not to accept Christ as the Son of God - not to know Him... but it's a whole 'nother level to viciously, unapologetically blaspheme Him, His Mother and the Holy Spirit! You say:

Quote
"There is so much anti-Christian sentiment everywhere,"

Yes... and where do you think it comes from Maj? Hint: six (6) companies own 96% of all the world's media. Can you guess who own/controls those six companies? Who hates Jesus more than anyone else? 
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Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute...

Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, not giving heed to Jewish fables and commandments of men who turn from the truth.
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« Reply #65 on: June 17, 2010, 04:49:09 PM »

I am temporarily locking this topic for a cooling off time,as it is no longer falling within the parameters for the Convert Issues Forum purpose. Monday I will determine if it is to remain closed, split, or reopened.

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« Last Edit: June 21, 2010, 10:04:46 AM by Thomas » Logged

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« Reply #66 on: June 21, 2010, 09:58:48 AM »

The cooling period of 4 days is now complete. I would like to remind you once again that the Convert Issues Forum is where an inquirer may ask their questions about the Orthodox Faith in a safe and supportive forum.  We try to provide an understanding of the basic teachings and practices of the Orthodox churches. WE try to keep our answers direct and simple with sources if possible,

For those who are converts, this forum should be a safe place to discuss issues that arise after one converts in a safe and supportive forum without retribution or recrimination. If this topic strays from the guidelines of our Forum Purpose, I will have to close the topic or split it. Please avoid name calling or slander of other faith groups when on this forum. Thank you for your Christian love that you show to each other on the Convert Issues Forum.

In Christ,
Thomas
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« Reply #67 on: June 22, 2010, 07:10:25 AM »

The cooling period of 4 days is now complete. I would like to remind you once again that the Convert Issues Forum is where an inquirer may ask their questions about the Orthodox Faith in a safe and supportive forum.  We try to provide an understanding of the basic teachings and practices of the Orthodox churches. WE try to keep our answers direct and simple with sources if possible,

For those who are converts, this forum should be a safe place to discuss issues that arise after one converts in a safe and supportive forum without retribution or recrimination. If this topic strays from the guidelines of our Forum Purpose, I will have to close the topic or split it. Please avoid name calling or slander of other faith groups when on this forum. Thank you for your Christian love that you show to each other on the Convert Issues Forum.

In Christ,
Thomas
Convert Issues Forum Moderator
 


Thank-you Thomas...

Truth be told, I never thought there would be any  discussion here. All people really needed to do was vote (if they wished)... and specify - if they were 'other' - what that 'other' had been.

As you have said Thomas, this is not the right thread for polemical discussion.

My sincere apologies for my part in getting off track here. Please forgive me.

†IC XC†
†NI KA†

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Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute...

Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, not giving heed to Jewish fables and commandments of men who turn from the truth.
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