Author Topic: Music with swearing  (Read 4664 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Heorhij

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,576
    • Mississippi University for Women
Re: Music with swearing
« Reply #45 on: June 05, 2010, 09:14:23 PM »
Actually, Heorhij, I was thinking the same thing today...it's so hard to shake off a perhaps too pietistic past, but how does one switch over to enjoying and intentionally listening to  swear words when they bring up nothing but difficult and traumatic images of severe bullying in the schoolyard, abuse, and other horrifying experiences?

Of course not. And no one commits adultery because Tristan and Isolde did.
Love never fails.

Offline FormerReformer

  • Convertodox of the convertodox
  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,532
    • Music and Orthodoxy
  • Faith: Convertodox
  • Jurisdiction: Netodoxy
Re: Music with swearing
« Reply #46 on: June 05, 2010, 09:20:42 PM »
Actually, Heorhij, I was thinking the same thing today...it's so hard to shake off a perhaps too pietistical past, but how does one switch over to enjoying and intentionally listening to  swear words when they bring up nothing but difficult and traumatic images of severe bullying in the schoolyard, abuse, and other horrifying experiences?

Don't try.  If you're not in the habit of using these then don't start.  If you don't enjoy hearing these words, then don't try to enjoy hearing them.  Remain as you are.  There's nothing wrong with being well-raised (much better than being well-bred).

But don't judge out of hand those who don't have the same upbringing or those who don't necessarily see a problem. Charity is the rule.  Don't look down on the Gentile for his uncircumcision, but at the same time don't seek to become uncircumcised.

Of course not. And no one commits adultery because Tristan and Isolde did.

No, Tristan and Isolt merely help them feel justified and righteous for doing so.  At least Lancelot and Guinivere destroyed a kingdom (and proved penitent in the end).
"Funny," said Lancelot, "how the people who can't pray say that prayers are not answered, however much the people who can pray say they are."  TH White

Oh, no: I've succumbed to Hyperdoxy!

Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

  • "SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,748
  • "Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"
    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?ref=profile&id=1456515775
Re: Music with swearing
« Reply #47 on: June 05, 2010, 09:22:26 PM »
Heorhij, are you arguing that art has no influence on those who enjoy it? Art is extremely powerful, and many people are influenced by it either negatively or positively. You may be able to watch a movie that explicitly portrays adultery, fornication, violence, profanity, etc. without it effecting you. But many people are effected, especially young people. They are prone to emulate immoral behavior that is artistically portrayed as "cool" and fashionable. So, I don't think it is "Puritanical" to condemn artistic expressions that promote immorality and evil.


Selam
"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."
Selam, +GMK+

Offline FormerReformer

  • Convertodox of the convertodox
  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,532
    • Music and Orthodoxy
  • Faith: Convertodox
  • Jurisdiction: Netodoxy
Re: Music with swearing
« Reply #48 on: June 05, 2010, 09:31:44 PM »
^ Even more than young people.  How many movies have come out in the past 40 years glorifying the middle aged married woman who has an affair?  Even worse than Tristan and Isolt (who came to tragic ends) these movies equate marital infidelity with regaining youthful vigor and a taste for life.
"Funny," said Lancelot, "how the people who can't pray say that prayers are not answered, however much the people who can pray say they are."  TH White

Oh, no: I've succumbed to Hyperdoxy!

Offline Heorhij

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,576
    • Mississippi University for Women
Re: Music with swearing
« Reply #49 on: June 05, 2010, 09:41:44 PM »
Actually, Heorhij, I was thinking the same thing today...it's so hard to shake off a perhaps too pietistical past, but how does one switch over to enjoying and intentionally listening to  swear words when they bring up nothing but difficult and traumatic images of severe bullying in the schoolyard, abuse, and other horrifying experiences?

Don't try.  If you're not in the habit of using these then don't start.  If you don't enjoy hearing these words, then don't try to enjoy hearing them.  Remain as you are.  There's nothing wrong with being well-raised (much better than being well-bred).

I am "well-raised," too, in that I do not swear. But my "dog" in this "fight" (thread) is not about swearing.

But don't judge out of hand those who don't have the same upbringing or those who don't necessarily see a problem. Charity is the rule.  Don't look down on the Gentile for his uncircumcision, but at the same time don't seek to become uncircumcised.

Of course not. And no one commits adultery because Tristan and Isolde did.

No, Tristan and Isolt merely help them feel justified and righteous for doing so.  At least Lancelot and Guinivere destroyed a kingdom (and proved penitent in the end).

I don;t know, I am not really all that familiar with Tristan and Isolde fairy tale, but I do know that in my country, Ukraine, there have been, traditionally, hundreds of extremely beautiful folk songs about forbidden love, and they have been breaking young people's hearts for centuries, and I am sure they, these songs, did nothing to push young folks to adultery. They merely reflected the sad situation existing in the society, where marriages were arranged and feelings of young people were trampled upon. What promoted adultery were the laws and habits of the society. Folk songs just served as a channel for young people to channel their desperation, to cry their tears out. And I am aesthetically overwhelmed, "catharcised," when I hear these songs. My heart goes out to these young "adulterers," and boils against their parents and their society and their Czar or whoever who was on top, because they are real, genuine, and I have compassion with them, and not with the stupid laws that existed back then. And I am so happy that today, my daughter does not have to ask my permission, whom to marry, etc.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2010, 09:43:20 PM by Heorhij »
Love never fails.

Offline Rosehip

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,760
Re: Music with swearing
« Reply #50 on: June 05, 2010, 10:19:59 PM »
This is veering dangerously off-track, but I tend to sympathize with Heorhij's views on the romantic folk songs. Stories of star-crossed lovers always moved me greatly (Thomas Hardy was a huge favourite of this genre), and yet I never did so much as hold the hand of a man I loved or cared for, so they must not have corrupted me too greatly.

A short while ago, Heorhij, was the annual exhibition of student's work at our prestigious acadamy of art and design, which I, as per my little tradition, attended. I wandered about, looking at the students' work until I discovered a little room-one of the exhibits, filled with embroidered rushniki and a film the student (of Ukrainian ancestory) had compiled of herself singing in the traditional "beliy holos" style, the old yearning, folk ballads of bygone days-songs on this very theme of young lovers, etc. I was so entranced, and happy and content, just sitting in this little darkened room, full of the embroidered clothes and watching and listening to this girl's voice, singing these ancient songs....it was for me, a strangely moving and spiritual experience....

Excuse me, I just had to share....
« Last Edit: June 05, 2010, 10:20:48 PM by Rosehip »
+ Our dear sister Martha (Rosehip) passed away on Dec 20, 2010.  May her memory be eternal! +

Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

  • "SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,748
  • "Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"
    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?ref=profile&id=1456515775
Re: Music with swearing
« Reply #51 on: June 05, 2010, 10:37:35 PM »
^ Even more than young people.  How many movies have come out in the past 40 years glorifying the middle aged married woman who has an affair?  Even worse than Tristan and Isolt (who came to tragic ends) these movies equate marital infidelity with regaining youthful vigor and a taste for life.

Exactly!


Selam
"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."
Selam, +GMK+

Offline Rosehip

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,760
Re: Music with swearing
« Reply #52 on: June 05, 2010, 11:07:50 PM »
Quote
Don't try.  If you're not in the habit of using these then don't start.  If you don't enjoy hearing these words, then don't try to enjoy hearing them.  Remain as you are.  There's nothing wrong with being well-raised (much better than being well-bred).

But don't judge out of hand those who don't have the same upbringing or those who don't necessarily see a problem. Charity is the rule.  Don't look down on the Gentile for his uncircumcision, but at the same time don't seek to become uncircumcised.

Yes. This is truly a huge challenge.
+ Our dear sister Martha (Rosehip) passed away on Dec 20, 2010.  May her memory be eternal! +

Offline katherineofdixie

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,590
Re: Music with swearing
« Reply #53 on: June 07, 2010, 10:16:48 AM »
Art is extremely powerful, and many people are influenced by it either negatively or positively. You may be able to watch a movie that explicitly portrays adultery, fornication, violence, profanity, etc. without it effecting you. But many people are effected, especially young people. They are prone to emulate immoral behavior that is artistically portrayed as "cool" and fashionable. So, I don't think it is "Puritanical" to condemn artistic expressions that promote immorality and evil.


Selam

The older I get the less I want to have anything to do with all this. Please don't think of me as a moral paragon, I simply don't want those images/words in my head.
And I do think it has an effect on people - look at the level of profanity used in daily life, for example.

(Also I too despise the "middle-aged woman finds true self/true happiness by having an affair/getting a divorce" genre.
As if.)

"If but ten of us lead a holy life, we shall kindle a fire which shall light up the entire city."

 St. John Chrysostom

Offline sodr2

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 121
  • القديس الانبا رويس
Re: Music with swearing
« Reply #54 on: June 10, 2010, 09:06:59 AM »
 By the time of the '90s such had become common place that no one but a Senate committee would have a problem with it (and then only if your wife happened to be offended, which is why I did NOT vote Gore in 2000).
Wait, what? If you listened to music and your wife was offended... what would happen?
"Happiness depends on the relationship between man and God." Pope Shenouda III

Offline FormerReformer

  • Convertodox of the convertodox
  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,532
    • Music and Orthodoxy
  • Faith: Convertodox
  • Jurisdiction: Netodoxy
Re: Music with swearing
« Reply #55 on: June 10, 2010, 10:22:49 AM »
For the average joe, absolutely nothing (aside from maybe sleeping on the couch).  If you're a US Senator, then you have to call all sorts of subcommittees and try to censor those dirty, dirty rappers.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parents_Music_Resource_Center
"Funny," said Lancelot, "how the people who can't pray say that prayers are not answered, however much the people who can pray say they are."  TH White

Oh, no: I've succumbed to Hyperdoxy!

Online PeterTheAleut

  • The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 34,024
  • Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Music with swearing
« Reply #56 on: June 10, 2010, 02:16:13 PM »
I see the latest discussion approaching too closely to politics for my comfort, so please be careful.
Not all who wander are lost.