OrthodoxChristianity.net
July 22, 2014, 09:56:15 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Orthodox Liturgy in Turkish  (Read 4730 times) Average Rating: 5
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,124



« Reply #90 on: January 01, 2013, 05:49:21 PM »


Allah is simply the shortened version of Al-Ilah, which means "The God", Al being the prefixed definitive article. Go back and read ialmisry's post again (#50). He explained the grammar rules of Arabic and the other semitic languages including Hebrew and Aramaic.

Go and read my question again. How can one say there is no God but the God? What if the other god/gods are claimed to be the only true God? What if the definite article is attached to the word ilah every time it is used?

That's just the way some semitic languages are. In Aramaic it's Alaha which when you break it down is Alah-aa, which means "The-God", or more literally, "God-The". This was all in the post I asked you to read.

Then will it be right to say that once upon a time in Arabia every ilaah was called Allah because the definite article was attached to the word ilaah?  Huh
No, as they would have been called, for instance al-ilaah Hubal 'the god Hubal."  Allaah refered to one in particular, hence the modification of the elements, as happened with al-ilaahah becoming Allaat "the goddess."

Btw, in Arabic now, due to Islam's influence, it would be said "al-ma'buud Hubal."  al-ilaah Hubal sounds strange, like "the God Hubal."
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,124



« Reply #91 on: January 01, 2013, 05:52:49 PM »


Yes, I'm afraid, or rather proud, that it does.
'ilaah means "a god."  Allaah means "God" and ilaahii means "My God" 'ilaah 'ibraahiim "the God of Abraham."

If ilaah means a god, ilaahi Ibrahim means a god of Ibrahim?  Huh
No, that would have to be either ilaahun li-Ibrahim "a god to/for Ibrahim" or ilaahun min 'aalihatu Ibraahiim "a god from the gods of Ibrahim."  the genitive Ibrahim's/of Ibrahim automatically makes ilaah god definite.  Which is why Allaah Ibrahim would mean "God is Abraham," never "Ibrahim's God."
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,124



« Reply #92 on: January 01, 2013, 05:56:23 PM »


Allah is simply the shortened version of Al-Ilah, which means "The God", Al being the prefixed definitive article. Go back and read ialmisry's post again (#50). He explained the grammar rules of Arabic and the other semitic languages including Hebrew and Aramaic.

Go and read my question again. How can one say there is no God but the God? What if the other god/gods are claimed to be the only true God? What if the definite article is attached to the word ilah every time it is used?
One could say "laa 'ilaaha 'illaa Hubal" or "laa 'ilaaha 'illaa al-'ilaahu Hubal," but not "laa Allaaha 'illa Hubal," nor "laa Allaaha/'ilaaha 'illaa Allaah Hubal" although the last is at least morphological possible.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Theophilos78
Warned
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: pro-Israeli Zionist Apostolic Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Adonai Yeshua
Posts: 2,043



« Reply #93 on: January 04, 2013, 05:18:42 PM »

No, that would have to be either ilaahun li-Ibrahim "a god to/for Ibrahim" or ilaahun min 'aalihatu Ibraahiim "a god from the gods of Ibrahim."  the genitive Ibrahim's/of Ibrahim automatically makes ilaah god definite.  Which is why Allaah Ibrahim would mean "God is Abraham," never "Ibrahim's God."

Interesting. In English we always add THE when we use the word God in possessive form. THE God of Abraham, Isaac...

What about the use of the word ilah in other possessive forms? ilahukum ilahen wahid is written in a few Qur'an verses. Is this because it is not possible to say Allahukum (your Allah)?

While speaking English, do you say Allah or always translate it into English as God? Would it be possible for a Christian Arab to say that Allah does not exist in English, but exists only in Arabic?  Huh
Logged

Longing for Heavenly Jerusalem
mabsoota
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Coptic
Posts: 2,408


Kyrie eleison


« Reply #94 on: January 04, 2013, 05:32:47 PM »

i say 'God' when i pray in english and 'Allah' when i pray in arabic.
of course, i use 'Ilah' in the appropriate grammatical parts of the prayer and in the nicene creed (which is discussed in a previous post).

there are subtle differences (to a non native speaker of arabic; probably big differences to a native speaker) between Christians and muslims when they discuss their beliefs in arabic.
you can generally tell by the context if the arabic speaker is Christian or muslim.

arabic speaking Christians are not at all easily confused with muslims (except by those sort of people who ignore the cross around the neck and references to going to church, and assume that fasting plus speaking arabic equals muslim!)
have to go now, time to pray (yes there will be a little arabic used!)
 Wink
Logged
Theophilos78
Warned
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: pro-Israeli Zionist Apostolic Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Adonai Yeshua
Posts: 2,043



« Reply #95 on: January 04, 2013, 06:02:36 PM »

i say 'God' when i pray in english and 'Allah' when i pray in arabic.
of course, i use 'Ilah' in the appropriate grammatical parts of the prayer and in the nicene creed (which is discussed in a previous post).

there are subtle differences (to a non native speaker of arabic; probably big differences to a native speaker) between Christians and muslims when they discuss their beliefs in arabic.
you can generally tell by the context if the arabic speaker is Christian or muslim.

arabic speaking Christians are not at all easily confused with muslims (except by those sort of people who ignore the cross around the neck and references to going to church, and assume that fasting plus speaking arabic equals muslim!)
have to go now, time to pray (yes there will be a little arabic used!)
 Wink

Thanks. Al-Masih qaam.  angel
Logged

Longing for Heavenly Jerusalem
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,124



« Reply #96 on: January 07, 2013, 12:47:36 PM »

No, that would have to be either ilaahun li-Ibrahim "a god to/for Ibrahim" or ilaahun min 'aalihatu Ibraahiim "a god from the gods of Ibrahim."  the genitive Ibrahim's/of Ibrahim automatically makes ilaah god definite.  Which is why Allaah Ibrahim would mean "God is Abraham," never "Ibrahim's God."

Interesting. In English we always add THE when we use the word God in possessive form. THE God of Abraham, Isaac...

What about the use of the word ilah in other possessive forms? ilahukum ilahen wahid is written in a few Qur'an verses. Is this because it is not possible to say Allahukum (your Allah)?
yes, it is not possible: you have to day ilaahukum.

While speaking English, do you say Allah or always translate it into English as God? Would it be possible for a Christian Arab to say that Allah does not exist in English, but exists only in Arabic?  Huh
In English it would indicate a Muslim, like saying Yahweh would indicate a reference to ancient Hebrew religious, Jehovah as a puritan ring to it.

Btw, this article on pre-Islamic Arabic inscriptions on pp. 3 and 10 make references to "Allah" in theophoric names, not only pre-Islamic but pre-Christian.
http://www.eis.hu.edu.jo/deanshipfiles/pub103813706.pdf
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Tags:
Pages: « 1 2 3  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.059 seconds with 34 queries.