Author Topic: New more dignified Mass in English approved for 2011  (Read 1918 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline lubeltri

  • Latin Catholic layman
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,795
New more dignified Mass in English approved for 2011
« on: May 31, 2010, 12:16:29 PM »
Fresh embrace of everlasting salvation

By Tess Livingstone
 The Australian   

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/features/fresh-embrace-of-everlasting-salvation/story-e6frg6z6-1225869540589

After nine years of work, Catholic authorities have rewritten the mass

IN praying to the omnipotent God at mass, George [Cardinal] Pell [Archbishop of Sydney] contends, it is not appropriate to "talk in the same way we do at a barbecue". 

On the cardinal’s desk sits an impressive, red-covered tome of 1266 gilt-edged pages, the new English edition of the Roman missal: one of a handful of copies in the world. 

Barbecue lingo it is not, but when the new translation of the Catholic mass is introduced, its striking changes may prove to be a "barbecue stopper" at church gatherings and possibly beyond. Because, in introducing them, the church has struck a powerful blow in the culture wars against postmodernism and meaninglessness in favour of rigorous scholarship and precision of language. 

Too often, in practice, the reforms of the second Vatican Council were turned into something never intended: outlandish, avant-garde liturgies and an erosion of doctrine, ostensibly "in the spirit of the council".  

As mainstream Protestant churches lurch left, ordaining women as bishops and gay clergy and questioning long-held doctrines about the resurrection, the virgin birth and salvation, Pope Benedict and the Catholic hierarchy are convinced that richer, more reverent liturgies are essential to strengthening religious belief and practice. While controversial in liberal Catholic quarters, the approach is attracting wide support, including from outside the church, with hundreds of thousands of traditional Anglicans preparing to cross the Tiber. Once inside the Catholic Church they will retain their own traditional liturgies.

In Australia, the new mass text will be introduced next year, probably on Pentecost Sunday, after an extensive education process.

The text will replace a version with which congregations have become familiar through 40 years but that many church leaders, including Pell, regard as too colloquial and "a bit dumbed down": a defective translation of the official missal.

The new document is not a literal translation but is more accurate, employing powerful words—venerable, compassion, sacrifice, victim, consubstantial, and everlasting salvation.

"The previous translators seemed a bit embarrassed to refer to angels, sacrifice and perpetual virginity," Pell says, before heading out at 8am to spend a day talking to students at Catholic schools in Sydney.

"They went a bit softly on sin and redemption."

----

You can read the rest on the link.

Offline lubeltri

  • Latin Catholic layman
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,795
Re: New more dignified Mass in English approved for 2011
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2010, 12:22:35 PM »
Interestingly, Pope Benedict will be using the new translation during his apostolic journey to England and Scotland in September. Thank God. Cardinal Newman, whom the Pope will beatify in Conventry, will be raised to the altars in decent English.

Offline Punch

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,801
Re: New more dignified Mass in English approved for 2011
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2010, 12:49:09 PM »
Darn.  The second time in 24 hours that I have agreed with the Vatican. 
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline Entscheidungsproblem

  • Formerly Friul & Nebelpfade
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,495
    • Amsterdam Declaration 2002
Re: New more dignified Mass in English approved for 2011
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2010, 01:07:47 PM »
Darn.  The second time in 24 hours that I have agreed with the Vatican. 
The end is nigh!

Hopefully this will lead to some better hymns as well.  :P
As a result of a thousand million years of evolution, the universe is becoming conscious of itself, able to understand something of its past history and its possible future.
-- Sir Julian Sorell Huxley FRS

Offline scamandrius

  • Crusher of Secrets; House Lannister
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,514
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Greek in exile
Re: New more dignified Mass in English approved for 2011
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2010, 02:02:42 PM »
Darn.  The second time in 24 hours that I have agreed with the Vatican. 
The end is nigh!

Hopefully this will lead to some better hymns as well.  :P

The RC church had a great repository of hymns before Vatican II excised them.  Rather than belt out new translations, the Catholics should return to the beauty of the Latin Language and hymns and Mass written in that language.  And I'm not at all biased because I am a Latin teacher! ;)
I seek the truth by which no man was ever harmed--Marcus Aurelius

Those who do not read  history are doomed to get their facts from Hollywood--Anonymous

What earthly joy remains untouched by grief?--St. John Damascene

Offline lubeltri

  • Latin Catholic layman
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,795
Re: New more dignified Mass in English approved for 2011
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2010, 02:12:50 PM »
Of course Vatican II explicitly CALLED for the retention of Latin. But don't ever underestimate liberals' ability to "reinterpret" documents. ;-)

Offline lubeltri

  • Latin Catholic layman
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,795
Re: New more dignified Mass in English approved for 2011
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2010, 10:56:22 AM »
As an example of the changes, here is the Canon of the Mass. The current translation is on the left, and the new translation is on the right:

















Offline lubeltri

  • Latin Catholic layman
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,795
Re: New more dignified Mass in English approved for 2011
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2010, 10:58:00 AM »
It goes without saying that the new translation follows much more closely the Latin text.

Offline Orual

  • Orthodoxy = 7, not 3
  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 954
  • I'm just here for the food.
Re: New more dignified Mass in English approved for 2011
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2010, 11:12:15 AM »
It goes without saying that the new translation follows much more closely the Latin text.

A vast improvement, I'll say.  But it would be even better if it commemorated a different bishop.   ;)
He spoke it as kindly and heartily as could be; as if a man dashed a gallon of cold water in your broth and never doubted you'd like it all the better. 

- C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces
f.k.a. Matron.a

Offline ialmisry

  • There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 38,522
Re: New more dignified Mass in English approved for 2011
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2010, 11:13:43 AM »
It goes without saying that the new translation follows much more closely the Latin text.
Do you have the Latin available?
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline lubeltri

  • Latin Catholic layman
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,795
Re: New more dignified Mass in English approved for 2011
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2010, 12:07:45 PM »
It goes without saying that the new translation follows much more closely the Latin text.
Do you have the Latin available?

Here it is:

Te ígitur, clementíssime Pater, per Iesum Christum, Fílium tuum, Dóminum nostrum, súpplices rogámus ac pétimus, uti accépta hábeas signat semel super panem et calicem simul, dicens: et benedícas + haec dona, haec múnera, haec sancta sacrifícia illibáta in primis, quae tibi offérimus pro Ecclésia tua sancta cathólica: quam pacificáre, custodíre, adunáre et régere dignéris toto orbe terrárum: una cum fámulo tuo Papa nostro Benedicto et Antístite nostro N. et ómnibus orthodóxis atque cathólicae et apostólicae fídei cultóribus.

 Meménto, Dómine, famulórum famularúmque tuárum N. et N. et ómnium circumstántium, quorum tibi fides cógnita est et nota devótio, pro quibus tibi offérimus: vel qui tibi ófferunt hoc sacrifícium laudis, pro se suísque ómnibus: pro redemptióne animárum suárum, pro spe salútis et incolumitátis suae: tibíque reddunt vota sua aetérno Deo, vivo et vero.

Communicántes, et memóriam venerántes, in primis gloriósae semper Vírginis Maríae, Genetrícis Dei et Dómini nostri Iesu Christi: + sed et beáti Ioseph, eiúsdem Vírginis Sponsi, et beatórum Apostolórum ac Mártyrum tuórum, Petri et Pauli, Andréae, (Iacóbi, Ioánnis, Thomae, Iacóbi, Philíppi, Bartholomaei, Matthaei, Simónis et Thaddaei: Lini, Cleti, Cleméntis, Xysti, Cornélii, Cypriáni, Lauréntii, Chrysógoni, Ioánnis et Pauli, Cosmae et Damiáni) et ómnium Sanctórum tuórum; quorum méritis precibúsque concédas, ut in ómnibus protectiónis tuae muniámur auxílio. (Per Christum Dóminum nostrum. Amen.)

Hanc ígitur oblatiónem servitútis nostrae, sed et cunctae famíliae tuae, quaesumus, Dómine, ut placátus accípias: diésque nostros in tua pace dispónas, atque ab aetérna damnatióne nos éripi et in electórum tuórum iúbeas grege numerári. (Per Christum Dóminum nostrum. Amen.)

Quam oblatiónem tu, Deus, in ómnibus, quaesumus, benedíctam, adscríptam, ratam, rationábilem, acceptabilémque fácere dignéris: ut nobis Corpus et Sanguis fiat dilectíssimi Fílii tui, Dómini nostri Iesu Christi.

Qui, prídie quam paterétur, accépit panem in sanctas ac venerábiles manus suas, elevat oculos, et elevátis óculis in caelum ad te Deum Patrem suum omnipoténtem, tibi grátias agens benedíxit, fregit, dedítque discípulis suis, dicens: ACCÍPITE ET MANDUCÁTE EX HOC OMNES: HOC EST ENIM CORPUS MEUM, QUOD PRO VOBIS TRADÉTUR.

Símili modo, postquam cenátum est, accípiens et hunc praeclárum cálicem in sanctas ac venerábiles manus suas, item tibi grátias agens benedíxit, dedítque discípulis suis, dicens: parum se inclinat ACCÍPITE ET BÍBITE EX EO OMNES: HIC EST ENIM CALIX SÁNGUINIS MEI NOVI ET AETÉRNI TESTAMÉNTI, QUI PRO VOBIS ET PRO MULTIS EFFUNDÉTUR IN REMISSIÓNEM PECCATÓRUM. HOC FÁCITE IN MEAM COMMEMORATIÓNEM.

Mystérium fídei.

Unde et mémores, Dómine, nos servi tui, sed et plebs tua sancta, eiúsdem Christi, Fílii tui, Dómini nostri, tam beátae passiónis, necnon et ab ínferis resurrectiónis, sed et in caelos gloriósae ascensiónis: offérimus praeclárae maiestáti tuae de tuis donis ac datis hóstiam puram, hóstiam sanctam, hóstiam immaculátam, Panem sanctum vitae aetérnae et Cálicem salútis perpétuae.

Supra quae propítio ac seréno vultu respícere dignéris: et accépta habére, sícuti accépta habére dignátus es múnera púeri tui iusti Abel, et sacrifícium Patriárchae nostri Abrahae, et quod tibi óbtulit summus sacérdos tuus Melchísedech, sanctum sacrifícium, immaculátam hóstiam.

Súpplices te rogámus, omnípotens Deus: iube haec perférri per manus sancti Angeli tui in sublíme altáre tuum, in conspéctu divínae maiestátis tuae; ut, quotquot ex hac altáris participatióne sacrosánctum Fílii tui Corpus et Sánguinem sumpsérimus, omni benedictióne caelésti et grátia repleámur. (Per Christum Dóminum nostrum. Amen.)

Meménto étiam, Dómine, famulórum famularúmque tuárum N. et N., qui nos praecessérunt cum signo fídei, et dórmiunt in somno pacis. Ipsis, Dómine, et ómnibus in Christo quiescéntibus, locum refrigérii, lucis et pacis, ut indúlgeas, deprecámur. (Per Christum Dóminum nostrum. Amen.)

Nobis quoque peccatóribus fámulis tuis, de multitúdine miseratiónum tuárum sperántibus, partem áliquam et societátem donáre dignéris cum tuis sanctis Apóstolis et Martyribus: cum Ioánne, Stéphano, Matthía, Bárnaba, (Ignátio, Alexándro, Marcellíno, Petro, Felicitáte, Perpétua, Agatha, Lúcia, Agnéte, Caecília, Anastásia) et ómnibus Sanctis tuis: intra quorum nos consórtium, non aestimátor mériti, sed véniae, quaesumus, largítor admítte. Per Christum Dóminum nostrum.

Per quem haec ómnia, Dómine, semper bona creas, sanctíficas, vivíficas, benedícis, et praestas nobis.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2010, 12:15:09 PM by lubeltri »

Offline username!

  • Section Moderator
  • Protokentarchos
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,081
Re: New more dignified Mass in English approved for 2011
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2010, 12:25:53 PM »
As an example of the changes, here is the Canon of the Mass. The current translation is on the left, and the new translation is on the right:


















Isn't that Eucharistic Canon 1?  I have nary heard that used, usually no.2, sometimes no.3.  Who uses no. 1 these days? 

Offline Schultz

  • Christian. Guitarist. Scooterist. Zymurgist. Librarian.
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,536
  • Scion of the McKeesport Becks.
Re: New more dignified Mass in English approved for 2011
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2010, 12:27:23 PM »
You do hear it every now and then.  Of the handful of Roman Catholic masses I've attended over the past two years (weddings/funerals/special occasions), I've heard it about half the time.

"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen

Offline lubeltri

  • Latin Catholic layman
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,795
Re: New more dignified Mass in English approved for 2011
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2010, 12:39:21 PM »
I hear it quite often these days. It used to not be the case.

The other Eucharistic Prayers have also been re-translated, and they are far better too.

Offline monkvasyl

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 653
Re: New more dignified Mass in English approved for 2011
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2010, 12:40:08 PM »
As an example of the changes, here is the Canon of the Mass. The current translation is on the left, and the new translation is on the right:


















Isn't that Eucharistic Canon 1?  I have nary heard that used, usually no.2, sometimes no.3.  Who uses no. 1 these days? 

I was partical to Eucharistic Canon #4, it was very bibical and yet in seminary they never wanted to use it.  Of course they prefered the shortest one, figures...get in and out as fast as you can.   :(
The unworthy hierodeacon, Vasyl

Offline stashko

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,998
  • Wonderworking Sitka Icon
Re: New more dignified Mass in English approved for 2011
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2010, 08:53:46 PM »
As an example of the changes, here is the Canon of the Mass. The current translation is on the left, and the new translation is on the right:


















When a Croatian Friend Ivan past away several years back...i went to Saint Peters catholic church Downtown
chicago,wrote his name in a book gave 50.00 donation  in his memory for the betterment and  repose of his soul,because  he had no family here in the u.s....During the mass,by the way , it was really short,they never read any names from the book, all they did was wave the book at the time of rememberance of the departed and said Lord all these people that are written in this book have mercy..AS short as the service was it would of sounded more caring and personal to mention every name out loud,,,Oh well....
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.