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Author Topic: 60 Minutes this Sunday (Dec. 20)  (Read 7284 times) Average Rating: 0
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Fr. George
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« Reply #45 on: December 21, 2009, 01:22:13 PM »

The Turks' biggest headaches are the EP and the Armenians, because both of them have independent support, which others (Antiochian Patriarchate, also occupied by the Turkish Patriarchate, Assyrians, Syriac Orthodox, Kurds, etc.) do not.  They would love to be relieved of both headaches so Turkification and centralization can go on with impunity.

And I'm sure they're grateful that only the Greeks & Armenians are headaches, because if all Orthodox groups in Turkey had even a tiny morsel of international support, you would never again see the words "Turkey" and "European Union" in the same paragraph together.
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« Reply #46 on: December 21, 2009, 02:11:38 PM »

So could someone briefly explain to me (if possible) how Turkey joining the EU would be a bad thing for the Patriarchate.
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« Reply #47 on: December 21, 2009, 02:32:24 PM »

So could someone briefly explain to me (if possible) how Turkey joining the EU would be a bad thing for the Patriarchate.

It would only be bad for the Patriarchate, and the other Christian minorities, if Turkey wasn't forced to give them all equal rights and protections before admission.  If the status quo persists after admission to the EU, then Turkey will have international validation of their tactics and will continue in earnest until all minority groups are assimilated or eliminated.
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« Reply #48 on: December 21, 2009, 02:43:47 PM »

Gotcha, Thanks.
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« Reply #49 on: December 22, 2009, 04:50:28 AM »

I watched this last night.  It was very good, the footage was very beautiful and it was quite moving.  I do hope and pray that His All Holiness will be safe.  I also agree with one of the comments on the CBS website that it was a bit offensive for the interviewer to say "You're Greek why don't you go back to Greece?"- wouldn't be tolerated if said to any other native born minority in the U.S., for instance.

I was a bit confused though by that tour guides statement that the Gospels were written in Anatolia.
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« Reply #50 on: December 22, 2009, 09:13:24 AM »

I am very glad to see the Ecumenical Patriarch bravely criticize (so-called) Justice and Development Party, which has been in power in Turkey for over 7 years now. The current government, like the former ones, is not willing to solve the problems of the Orthodox Christians living in Turkey and even predating the Turkish existence.

Some Christians were overjoyed when R. T. Erdogan's party came to power in Turkey because they mistakenly presumed that this new party would perform miracles to defy not only anti-Islamic regulations and attitude of the secular regime founded by Ataturk and defended by the Turkish Armed Forces, but also the strong anti-Christian sentiments that had been fed by Turkish nationalism, which is still considered the foremost factor contributing to the salvation of the country from the invasion of the European countries after the fall of the Ottoman Empire. It is true that Erdogan's party has been walking with firm steps to break the shield of the secular Turkish regime by minimalizing the power of the Armed Forces, but it is also true that all these efforts were confined to the welfare of Muslims & liberation of the Islamic ideology, disregarding the problems of the non-Muslim citizens of Turkey.

With much sadness I can say that the tragedies befalling the Christian minorities of Turkey today owe their existence to the continuity of a hideous project devised and first enforced during the final years of the Ottoman Empire. This project aims to "cleanse" Turkey from her non-Muslim population. The first step of this process of purification sought ways of getting rid of the Armenian population, which was considered a major threat to the national unity of Turkey because of the dominant settlement of Armenians in the East. The result was the Armenian genocide.

Later, right in the early days of the "secular" and "nationalist" Turkish Republic, the Turkish-speaking Orthodox Christians of Anatolia were forced to leave their homeland and go to Greece on the basis of their religious identity so that Greek Muslims could come back to Anatolia.

These activities enabled the secular and nationalist Republic of Turkey to "save" both the East of the country and central Anatolia from the "threat" of Christian existence. However, this was not the end to the story as the Greek and Armenian population living in Constantinople began to intimidate the paranoid forces of Turkey and finally called them to action. The outcome of the hatred towards the Christian population of Constantinople was the pogrom of September 6-7 1955. The barbarous attack on the Greek and Armenian population of the city was ridiculously based on a rumour (a lie!) that Ataturk's house in Thessalonica had been destroyed by Greek nationalists. It was later understood that the pogrom had been planned and carried out by the right-oriented government of the time, which had needed a good reason to blame the Communists in Turkey! Most of the Greeks left Constantinople after the pogrom, which showed that anti-Christian Turkish policies reached their goal.

Syriac Christians living in southeastern Turkey were not exempt from these barbarous attacks, and the time of their punishment for committing the "crime" of being Christians came when the Turkish Hezbollah was founded and its terrorist activities were ignored by the government. Actually, the main target of the Turkish Hezbollah was the Kurdish minority. However, Hezbollah became a nightmare for the Syriac Christians living in Mardin as it was advised by some people to shoot two birds with a sling.

What about today? The hideous project of cleansing Turkey from the Christian minority is still alive, and the same old monster is victimizing different Christian groups and denominations and blaming the "threatening" missionary activities. We witnessed the appearance of this monster when a Roman Catholic priest was shot to death and another was stabbed in Northern Turkey. The monster had a banquet when it entered a Christian bookstore in Malatya and mauled three Christians (including Turkish converts) for their faith.

Who will stop this monster? The only thing we can do is look up and call God to action. Lord, have mercy!
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« Reply #51 on: December 22, 2009, 10:21:04 AM »

I watched this last night.  It was very good, the footage was very beautiful and it was quite moving.  I do hope and pray that His All Holiness will be safe.  I also agree with one of the comments on the CBS website that it was a bit offensive for the interviewer to say "You're Greek why don't you go back to Greece?"- wouldn't be tolerated if said to any other native born minority in the U.S., for instance.

Yes, but His All Holiness handled it perfectly with a honest, and defiant, answer.


Quote
I was a bit confused though by that tour guides statement that the Gospels were written in Anatolia.

That's a bit overstated, but St. John is believed to have been written in Ephesus.  I'll give her a pass, as she corrected and said Anatolia, not Turkey.
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« Reply #52 on: December 22, 2009, 10:24:18 AM »

I am very glad to see the Ecumenical Patriarch bravely criticize (so-called) Justice and Development Party, which has been in power in Turkey for over 7 years now. The current government, like the former ones, is not willing to solve the problems of the Orthodox Christians living in Turkey and even predating the Turkish existence.

Some Christians were overjoyed when R. T. Erdogan's party came to power in Turkey because they mistakenly presumed that this new party would perform miracles to defy not only anti-Islamic regulations and attitude of the secular regime founded by Ataturk and defended by the Turkish Armed Forces, but also the strong anti-Christian sentiments that had been fed by Turkish nationalism, which is still considered the foremost factor contributing to the salvation of the country from the invasion of the European countries after the fall of the Ottoman Empire. It is true that Erdogan's party has been walking with firm steps to break the shield of the secular Turkish regime by minimalizing the power of the Armed Forces, but it is also true that all these efforts were confined to the welfare of Muslims & liberation of the Islamic ideology, disregarding the problems of the non-Muslim citizens of Turkey.

With much sadness I can say that the tragedies befalling the Christian minorities of Turkey today owe their existence to the continuity of a hideous project devised and first enforced during the final years of the Ottoman Empire. This project aims to "cleanse" Turkey from her non-Muslim population. The first step of this process of purification sought ways of getting rid of the Armenian population, which was considered a major threat to the national unity of Turkey because of the dominant settlement of Armenians in the East. The result was the Armenian genocide.

Later, right in the early days of the "secular" and "nationalist" Turkish Republic, the Turkish-speaking Orthodox Christians of Anatolia were forced to leave their homeland and go to Greece on the basis of their religious identity so that Greek Muslims could come back to Anatolia.

These activities enabled the secular and nationalist Republic of Turkey to "save" both the East of the country and central Anatolia from the "threat" of Christian existence. However, this was not the end to the story as the Greek and Armenian population living in Constantinople began to intimidate the paranoid forces of Turkey and finally called them to action. The outcome of the hatred towards the Christian population of Constantinople was the pogrom of September 6-7 1955. The barbarous attack on the Greek and Armenian population of the city was ridiculously based on a rumour (a lie!) that Ataturk's house in Thessalonica had been destroyed by Greek nationalists. It was later understood that the pogrom had been planned and carried out by the right-oriented government of the time, which had needed a good reason to blame the Communists in Turkey! Most of the Greeks left Constantinople after the pogrom, which showed that anti-Christian Turkish policies reached their goal.

Syriac Christians living in southeastern Turkey were not exempt from these barbarous attacks, and the time of their punishment for committing the "crime" of being Christians came when the Turkish Hezbollah was founded and its terrorist activities were ignored by the government. Actually, the main target of the Turkish Hezbollah was the Kurdish minority. However, Hezbollah became a nightmare for the Syriac Christians living in Mardin as it was advised by some people to shoot two birds with a sling.

What about today? The hideous project of cleansing Turkey from the Christian minority is still alive, and the same old monster is victimizing different Christian groups and denominations and blaming the "threatening" missionary activities. We witnessed the appearance of this monster when a Roman Catholic priest was shot to death and another was stabbed in Northern Turkey. The monster had a banquet when it entered a Christian bookstore in Malatya and mauled three Christians (including Turkish converts) for their faith.

Who will stop this monster? The only thing we can do is look up and call God to action. Lord, have mercy!

Lord have Mercy!

I was hoping you saw it.  Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
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« Reply #53 on: December 22, 2009, 12:30:22 PM »

Quote
I was a bit confused though by that tour guides statement that the Gospels were written in Anatolia.

That's a bit overstated, but St. John is believed to have been written in Ephesus.  I'll give her a pass, as she corrected and said Anatolia, not Turkey.

I hope the comment generated research by the viewers: how many would know how vitally important the area of Asia Minor was to the early Church?  O, Antioch!  How we miss thee.
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« Reply #54 on: December 22, 2009, 12:52:24 PM »

Quote
I was a bit confused though by that tour guides statement that the Gospels were written in Anatolia.

That's a bit overstated, but St. John is believed to have been written in Ephesus.  I'll give her a pass, as she corrected and said Anatolia, not Turkey.

I hope the comment generated research by the viewers: how many would know how vitally important the area of Asia Minor was to the early Church?  O, Antioch!  How we miss thee.

Why?  We're still around.
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if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
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« Reply #55 on: December 22, 2009, 01:03:38 PM »

Quote
I was a bit confused though by that tour guides statement that the Gospels were written in Anatolia.

That's a bit overstated, but St. John is believed to have been written in Ephesus.  I'll give her a pass, as she corrected and said Anatolia, not Turkey.

I hope the comment generated research by the viewers: how many would know how vitally important the area of Asia Minor was to the early Church?  O, Antioch!  How we miss thee.

Why?  We're still around.

Still around, but renting a house until the squatters leave the estate. Wink
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« Reply #56 on: December 22, 2009, 02:41:56 PM »

Quote
I was a bit confused though by that tour guides statement that the Gospels were written in Anatolia.

That's a bit overstated, but St. John is believed to have been written in Ephesus.  I'll give her a pass, as she corrected and said Anatolia, not Turkey.

I hope the comment generated research by the viewers: how many would know how vitally important the area of Asia Minor was to the early Church?  O, Antioch!  How we miss thee.

Why?  We're still around.

Still around, but renting a house until the squatters leave the estate. Wink

Not sure what you are alluding to.
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                           and both come out of your mouth
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« Reply #57 on: December 22, 2009, 02:57:59 PM »

Quote
I was a bit confused though by that tour guides statement that the Gospels were written in Anatolia.

That's a bit overstated, but St. John is believed to have been written in Ephesus.  I'll give her a pass, as she corrected and said Anatolia, not Turkey.

I hope the comment generated research by the viewers: how many would know how vitally important the area of Asia Minor was to the early Church?  O, Antioch!  How we miss thee.

Why?  We're still around.

Still around, but renting a house until the squatters leave the estate. Wink

Not sure what you are alluding to.

I think he's saying that the Patriarchate of Antioch has had to relocate and the "squatters" are those who ran the Patriarchate out of Antioch- the "estate" being Antioch.
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« Reply #58 on: December 22, 2009, 03:22:19 PM »

Quote
I was a bit confused though by that tour guides statement that the Gospels were written in Anatolia.

That's a bit overstated, but St. John is believed to have been written in Ephesus.  I'll give her a pass, as she corrected and said Anatolia, not Turkey.

I hope the comment generated research by the viewers: how many would know how vitally important the area of Asia Minor was to the early Church?  O, Antioch!  How we miss thee.

Why?  We're still around.

Still around, but renting a house until the squatters leave the estate. Wink

Not sure what you are alluding to.

I think he's saying that the Patriarchate of Antioch has had to relocate and the "squatters" are those who ran the Patriarchate out of Antioch- the "estate" being Antioch.

You mean the earthquake?  The patriarchal cathedral is still there, although not ancient: the old ones have been destroyed by the earthquakes that have plagued the place and led to its decline.
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« Reply #59 on: December 22, 2009, 04:49:35 PM »


I was hoping you saw it.  Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

Of course, I did!  Wink

Thanks, brother. Sending you my best wishes for a blessed Christmas and a brilliant new year.  Smiley
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« Reply #60 on: December 22, 2009, 05:28:46 PM »

Why?  We're still around.

Still around, but renting a house until the squatters leave the estate. Wink

Not sure what you are alluding to.

I think he's saying that the Patriarchate of Antioch has had to relocate and the "squatters" are those who ran the Patriarchate out of Antioch- the "estate" being Antioch.

You mean the earthquake?  The patriarchal cathedral is still there, although not ancient: the old ones have been destroyed by the earthquakes that have plagued the place and led to its decline.

I thought it was the combination of earthquake and Turk, but if I'm wrong, I apologize.
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« Reply #61 on: December 23, 2009, 05:57:40 PM »

Mamlukes, I believe.  The Ottomans arrived to find Antioch already quite diminished.
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« Reply #62 on: December 31, 2009, 03:06:48 PM »

I finally got this video to work.  A true blessing to see those holy sites!  Those caves that they visited, are they from former monastic communities, underground churches, or what?  Can somebody please provide more information about the period the caves and subsequently the frescoes come out of?
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« Reply #63 on: December 31, 2009, 03:21:07 PM »

I think the caves may have dated from the earliest centuries of the Church, but the frescoes are almost certainly from the time of the Iconoclastic Wars.
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« Reply #64 on: August 06, 2010, 05:39:41 AM »

Quote
he CBS 60 Minutes program on Orthodox Christianity featuring His All Holiness Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew,  the spiritual leader of 300 million Orthodox Christians who constitute the second largest Christian church in the world, which first aired on Sunday, December 20, 2009 will be repeated this Sunday, August 8 at 7 p.m. ET/PT...
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« Reply #65 on: August 09, 2010, 07:17:27 PM »

Quote
he CBS 60 Minutes program on Orthodox Christianity featuring His All Holiness Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew,  the spiritual leader of 300 million Orthodox Christians who constitute the second largest Christian church in the world, which first aired on Sunday, December 20, 2009 will be repeated this Sunday, August 8 at 7 p.m. ET/PT...
rest here

There was an update at the end in which the reporter said the Patriarch's comment had created quite a controversy in Turkey. The Turkish government issued a statement saying that they had met with the Patriarch on numerous occasion in regards to his concerns. The Patriarchate responded that meetings had occurred but that nothing has changed yet.


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