Author Topic: Folk origins of RC devotions  (Read 1426 times)

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Offline Robb

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Folk origins of RC devotions
« on: May 25, 2010, 01:03:21 AM »
Does anyone have a source (Or explanation) about the origins of certain RC devotions such as the 9 First Fridays, Brown Scapular, Rosary, and Novenas?  I am interested in knowing how this various practices went from no doubt peasant origins to becoming officially approved RC practices?

Thanks.
Men may dislike truth, men may find truth offensive and inconvenient, men may persecute the truth, subvert it, try by law to suppress it. But to maintain that men have the final power over truth is blasphemy, and the last delusion. Truth lives forever, men do not.
-- Gustave Flaubert

Offline Keble

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Re: Folk origins of RC devotions
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2010, 11:15:26 AM »
The answer is that none of these have folk origins in the ordinary sense of the word:
  • The brown scapular comes out of the Carmelite order and is a stylized version of their habit.
  • The rosary is associated with St. Dominic (dubiously) but seems to have derived from the very ancient use of prayer beads in general.
  • The first Friday devotions trace back to Marguerite Marie Alacoque, who was the principal exponent of the Sacred Heart devotions.
  • The origin of novenas is obscure, and perhaps pagan, but definitely traces back into the early church.

Offline stashko

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Re: Folk origins of RC devotions
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2010, 12:31:46 PM »
Aren't Some if not all of these so called folk devotion ,tied in, some how with these Talking Questionable Apparitions ,Catholic seem to love and Follow religiously.... ???
« Last Edit: May 25, 2010, 12:32:51 PM by stashko »
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline Athanasios

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Re: Folk origins of RC devotions
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2010, 09:59:23 PM »
Does anyone have a source (Or explanation) about the origins of certain RC devotions such as the 9 First Fridays, Brown Scapular, Rosary, and Novenas?  I am interested in knowing how this various practices went from no doubt peasant origins to becoming officially approved RC practices?

Thanks.

The First Fridays devotion arose from the private revelations to Saint Margaret Mary Alacoque in the 17th century regarding the Sacred Heart of Jesus.

The Brown Scapular was originally the work apron of the Carmelites (a.k.a. The Order of the Brothers of Our Lady of Mount Carmel). The word scapular comes from the Latin word meaning shoulder. Over time, the scapular became identified and a part of the regular habit of the Carmelites and for lay members of the Order to participate the scapular became smaller to be able to be worn with the laity's regular clothing. According to pious legend, Our Lady appeared to Saint Simon Stock with her promise of protection and intercession for all who die clothed in the scapular. The Brown Scapular is often associated with the Mantle of Mary.

The Dominican Rosary (there are many varieties of rosaries such as the Brigittine) came out of the Divine Office. The Monks were accustom to saying all 150 psalms every day. The laity wishing to participate in this laudable practice but lacking both the time and education (i.e., couldn't read) to pray the psalms they substituted 150 Hail Marys -- one for each psalm. Over time the Our Fathers were added and the Rosary was divided into 15 decades and to each decade some pious thought was attached. Again, over time, these thoughts settled onto the 15 mysteries known as the Joyful, Sorrowful, and Glorious. According to pious legend Our Lady appeared to Saint Dominic and charged him with preaching about praying of the Rosary.

Novenas go to the very birth of the Church. The first novena occurred during the nine days from Ascension Thursday to Pentecost -- the word novena comes from the Latin word for nine. Originally novenas were prayed for the coming of the Holy Spirit and it was the custom to pray a novena before Baptism or Confirmation. Over time, novenas were expanded to included praying to Saints and for particular petitions.


Does that answer your question?
« Last Edit: May 28, 2010, 09:59:50 PM by Athanasios »
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Offline Robb

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Re: Folk origins of RC devotions
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2010, 01:15:29 AM »
Yes it does.  Thank you.
Men may dislike truth, men may find truth offensive and inconvenient, men may persecute the truth, subvert it, try by law to suppress it. But to maintain that men have the final power over truth is blasphemy, and the last delusion. Truth lives forever, men do not.
-- Gustave Flaubert

Offline stashko

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Re: Folk origins of RC devotions
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2010, 04:47:58 AM »
Those Novena's remind me  of magic spells..One does this or that  a number of times...the promises attached to them are supposedly guaranteed to happen if one does them right..... ::)
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline Alpo

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Re: Folk origins of RC devotions
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2010, 08:49:19 AM »
Those Novena's remind me  of magic spells..

Here's a Novena Prayer to St. John of San Fransisco:

Quote from: Paruchia
O Lord Jesus Christ, who hast called the simple and humble to carry the light of the Gospel into the world; and, in these latter days, hast raised up thy holy servant Saint John (Maximovitch) to foster and bless the mission and ministry of Orthodoxy in the West, pour forth thy wisdom and grace upon those who seek tp spread the Word of thy Truth by encouraging a wider vision of the Orthodox faith and mission; that the West may recover from its apostasy and deep divisions, and its ancient rites be restored in their fullness to they holy Orthodox Church. Open the minds and hearts of all Orthodox peoples and hierarchs to acknowledge the rightful place of their Western brethren within the Orthodox Church, that the efforts of St. John may bear fruit and thy Church may be one. This we ask, Lord Jesus Christ, who, with the Father and the Holy Ghost, livest and reignest, one God, world without end. Amen.

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the people on this forum have to stop taking themselves so seriously. None of us are some modern-day Athanasius, we all just have nothing better to do.

Offline Melodist

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Re: Folk origins of RC devotions
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2010, 02:14:57 PM »
Those Novena's remind me  of magic spells..

Here's a Novena Prayer to St. John of San Fransisco:

Quote from: Paruchia
O Lord Jesus Christ, who hast called the simple and humble to carry the light of the Gospel into the world; and, in these latter days, hast raised up thy holy servant Saint John (Maximovitch) to foster and bless the mission and ministry of Orthodoxy in the West, pour forth thy wisdom and grace upon those who seek tp spread the Word of thy Truth by encouraging a wider vision of the Orthodox faith and mission; that the West may recover from its apostasy and deep divisions, and its ancient rites be restored in their fullness to they holy Orthodox Church. Open the minds and hearts of all Orthodox peoples and hierarchs to acknowledge the rightful place of their Western brethren within the Orthodox Church, that the efforts of St. John may bear fruit and thy Church may be one. This we ask, Lord Jesus Christ, who, with the Father and the Holy Ghost, livest and reignest, one God, world without end. Amen.



Or other prayers within Orthodoxy that may be repeated a certain number of times.
And FWIW, these are our Fathers too, you know.

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Offline mike

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Re: Folk origins of RC devotions
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2010, 02:22:48 PM »
Those Novena's remind me  of magic spells..One does this or that  a number of times...the promises attached to them are supposedly guaranteed to happen if one does them right..... ::)

Have you ever been to an akathyst?
« Last Edit: May 29, 2010, 02:29:50 PM by mike »
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Offline Robb

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Re: Folk origins of RC devotions
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2010, 06:59:26 PM »
Those Novena's remind me  of magic spells..

Here's a Novena Prayer to St. John of San Fransisco:

Quote from: Paruchia
O Lord Jesus Christ, who hast called the simple and humble to carry the light of the Gospel into the world; and, in these latter days, hast raised up thy holy servant Saint John (Maximovitch) to foster and bless the mission and ministry of Orthodoxy in the West, pour forth thy wisdom and grace upon those who seek tp spread the Word of thy Truth by encouraging a wider vision of the Orthodox faith and mission; that the West may recover from its apostasy and deep divisions, and its ancient rites be restored in their fullness to they holy Orthodox Church. Open the minds and hearts of all Orthodox peoples and hierarchs to acknowledge the rightful place of their Western brethren within the Orthodox Church, that the efforts of St. John may bear fruit and thy Church may be one. This we ask, Lord Jesus Christ, who, with the Father and the Holy Ghost, livest and reignest, one God, world without end. Amen.



Just curious, was this written by Catholics, or is it Orthodox in origin?
Men may dislike truth, men may find truth offensive and inconvenient, men may persecute the truth, subvert it, try by law to suppress it. But to maintain that men have the final power over truth is blasphemy, and the last delusion. Truth lives forever, men do not.
-- Gustave Flaubert

Offline Alpo

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Re: Folk origins of RC devotions
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2010, 07:20:04 PM »
Just curious, was this written by Catholics, or is it Orthodox in origin?

According to the blog it was written by the prior of ROCOR's Christ the Savior monastery.
Quote from: Severian
the people on this forum have to stop taking themselves so seriously. None of us are some modern-day Athanasius, we all just have nothing better to do.