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Author Topic: Whats this about Confession?  (Read 907 times) Average Rating: 0
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Robb
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« on: May 23, 2010, 01:45:20 AM »

Quote from: Irish Hermit on Yesterday at 10:04:25 AM
Quote from: elijahmaria on Yesterday at 09:58:23 AM
Quote from: Irish Hermit on Yesterday at 09:46:01 AM
Quote from: elijahmaria on Yesterday at 09:36:18 AM
Quote from: Irish Hermit on Yesterday at 09:05:01 AM
Quote from: elijahmaria on Yesterday at 08:50:13 AM

There are many instances where the Vatican has made deep and profound apology but that seems always to get thrown in our faces.  I've never seen any similar Orthodox statements, so I can't say if they exist or not.



There have not been any Vatican apologies.

The heartfelt apologies which John Paul apparently wished to make were subverted by Cardinal Ratzinger who saw John Paul as naively creating a dangerous precedent for the Roman Catholic Church and diminishing its dignity as the Una Sancta.

So grab some of those apologies and see what they became under Ratzinger's influence --- they actually became not an apology to the victims but a prayer offered by the Pope that God would forgive the Roman Catholics who had committed the wrong.

This cunning was not lost on the Orthodox.


 

Vintage




Athens, 2001, and an example of the very carefully nuanced non-apologies issued by Pope John Paul  (crafted by Cardinal Ratzinger.)

"For the occasions past and present, when the sons and daughters of the Catholic Church have sinned by actions and omission against their Orthodox brothers and sisters, may the Lord grant us the forgiveness we beg of him."

If you do a search on this 'apology' you will find the stinging criticisms of this 'apology' in the Orthodox press.  


No doubt.  There are many Orthodox who can make something evil out of anything Catholic.


It's not evil, Elijahmaria, it is not evil to ask God to forgive.   But it is not an apology.


There is no forgiveness without genuine compunction and the firm amendment not to sin again.

That is Catholic teaching.

That is what the Orthodox who reject that statement spit on and kick back on us.  It is what I have come to expect, and why I wish my Church would stop doing it because it is falling on deaf ears.  We should hold private services in our rooms and stop heaping ashes on our heads in public so we can be mocked.  

Orthodox who do that are wrong and need to apologize.

M.


Then who on Earth really gets forgiven of their sins anyway?  This is why I, although beleiving in it was never a big fan of the practice of Confession in the first place (At least the RCC interpretation of it).  How can a person be "firmely" sure that they will never commit a sin again for the rest of their life after they have confessed it.  If thats the case then I've probably never had a single valid confession in my entire life.  Don't get me wrong I try to not sin again, but not to the point that I'd rather die then do it.  

It's overscrupulous stuff like this that makes me leary of the RCC, although I still do have a cultural attachment to her, non the less).
« Last Edit: May 23, 2010, 01:46:57 AM by Robb » Logged

Men may dislike truth, men may find truth offensive and inconvenient, men may persecute the truth, subvert it, try by law to suppress it. But to maintain that men have the final power over truth is blasphemy, and the last delusion. Truth lives forever, men do not.
-- Gustave Flaubert
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« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2010, 08:15:46 AM »

Quote from: Irish Hermit on Yesterday at 10:04:25 AM
Quote from: elijahmaria on Yesterday at 09:58:23 AM
Quote from: Irish Hermit on Yesterday at 09:46:01 AM
Quote from: elijahmaria on Yesterday at 09:36:18 AM
Quote from: Irish Hermit on Yesterday at 09:05:01 AM
Quote from: elijahmaria on Yesterday at 08:50:13 AM

There are many instances where the Vatican has made deep and profound apology but that seems always to get thrown in our faces.  I've never seen any similar Orthodox statements, so I can't say if they exist or not.



There have not been any Vatican apologies.

The heartfelt apologies which John Paul apparently wished to make were subverted by Cardinal Ratzinger who saw John Paul as naively creating a dangerous precedent for the Roman Catholic Church and diminishing its dignity as the Una Sancta.

So grab some of those apologies and see what they became under Ratzinger's influence --- they actually became not an apology to the victims but a prayer offered by the Pope that God would forgive the Roman Catholics who had committed the wrong.

This cunning was not lost on the Orthodox.


 

Vintage




Athens, 2001, and an example of the very carefully nuanced non-apologies issued by Pope John Paul  (crafted by Cardinal Ratzinger.)

"For the occasions past and present, when the sons and daughters of the Catholic Church have sinned by actions and omission against their Orthodox brothers and sisters, may the Lord grant us the forgiveness we beg of him."

If you do a search on this 'apology' you will find the stinging criticisms of this 'apology' in the Orthodox press.  


No doubt.  There are many Orthodox who can make something evil out of anything Catholic.


It's not evil, Elijahmaria, it is not evil to ask God to forgive.   But it is not an apology.


There is no forgiveness without genuine compunction and the firm amendment not to sin again.

That is Catholic teaching.

That is what the Orthodox who reject that statement spit on and kick back on us.  It is what I have come to expect, and why I wish my Church would stop doing it because it is falling on deaf ears.  We should hold private services in our rooms and stop heaping ashes on our heads in public so we can be mocked.  

Orthodox who do that are wrong and need to apologize.

M.


Then who on Earth really gets forgiven of their sins anyway?  This is why I, although beleiving in it was never a big fan of the practice of Confession in the first place (At least the RCC interpretation of it).  How can a person be "firmely" sure that they will never commit a sin again for the rest of their life after they have confessed it.  If thats the case then I've probably never had a single valid confession in my entire life.  Don't get me wrong I try to not sin again, but not to the point that I'd rather die then do it.  

It's overscrupulous stuff like this that makes me leary of the RCC, although I still do have a cultural attachment to her, non the less).


The Catholic Church is very particular about the meaning of things.

A "firm amendment" means that we will go out and do our very best not to sin again.

It is a strong promise, not a guarantee of certitude.

M.
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Robb
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« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2010, 04:44:13 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vQpW9XRiyM

Considering how many people keep on going back to confession all through their lives, it is probably more a weak version of the former then the latter for most.

Didn't the early Christians only go to confession once in their lives and that was it?

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Men may dislike truth, men may find truth offensive and inconvenient, men may persecute the truth, subvert it, try by law to suppress it. But to maintain that men have the final power over truth is blasphemy, and the last delusion. Truth lives forever, men do not.
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« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2010, 05:00:06 PM »

I believe this article may help you Robb.
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« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2010, 11:22:38 AM »

Robb, the way I have always understood it is that our intention is to try with all our might and and strength to avoid the sin. We intend not to do it again, though we know that we are sinners and may still fall. The Catholic Church doesn't interperate her own teachings in such a legalistic manner.
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Note Papist's influence from the tyrannical monarchism of traditional papism .
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