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Author Topic: Doctrinal Theology is not separated from Moral Theology  (Read 4377 times) Average Rating: 0
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Papist
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« Reply #45 on: May 24, 2010, 11:44:16 AM »



The way you write above it is as if the financial assistance from the West in the early days of freedom was almost a bride to achieve intercommunion.   Embarrassed

I didn't say it boss...you did.  Which is why I think that ALL monies sent to build Orthodox Churches and Seminaries should stop!...and should never have been sent in the first place because it does get kicked back in our teeth just as you do here,  but I wasn't around calling the shots then.... Grin

I agree. I have not idea why we should be supporting other religions in their endevors.


I do understand it given the fact that the Catholic Church truly has come to the open acceptance of the eastern Orthodox as Sister Churches but I think her open-handed policies have been premature. 

Remember the story I told about the legless man in the bus station who threw my change back when I emptied my pockets and gave him all I had in them.  Maybe I didn't tell it here but it happened to me years ago.  Well in this case, the legless man has kept the money and spits at the giver...frequently.

I realize that one does not give charity for any return, but in this case I think it would have been money better spent to build up people and not to build up Orthodoxy as a religious organization.

As you can see, it is too easily characterized as bribery when it is given to the Orthodox religious organizations.

M.




I do not think that when the "Sister Church" language was used in the past that it meant that we see them as full members of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.
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Irish Hermit
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« Reply #46 on: May 24, 2010, 11:46:00 AM »



The way you write above it is as if the financial assistance from the West in the early days of freedom was almost a bride to achieve intercommunion.   Embarrassed

I didn't say it boss...you did.  Which is why I think that ALL monies sent to build Orthodox Churches and Seminaries should stop!...and should never have been sent in the first place because it does get kicked back in our teeth just as you do here,  but I wasn't around calling the shots then.... Grin

You were the one who replied No More Money in response to my post on the impossibility of communion until we reach unanimity on doctrine.   Go back and read your own post.

You are the one who suggested the term "bribes" Father.  It is more of your bottom feeding.

And yes...I think that the Vatican needs to pull way back and allow Orthodoxy to go on her own for a while and clean up her own house.  The other Father Ambrose used to tell me that the lunatic fringe did battle on the Internet.  I thought he was wrong then, and I still think he is wrong.  I hoped for a while to be able to believe him, but I have changed my mind.

I think that the conciliatory Orthodox on places like the Byzantine Forum are the lunatic fringe now.

You may take a great deal of credit for that.

Mary

Read Post 35.

I spoke of no communion until doctrinal unanimity.

You immediately replied saying the Catholics should stop giving money.

The connection could not possibly be more clear.  Who's the bottom feeder if not Mary Lanser?
 You know better than to descend to the depths of using such ad hominems as "bottom feeder".  You are therefore receiving this warning to last for the next two months.  If you think my action wrong, feel free to appeal it via PM to Veniamin, Fr. George, or Fr. Chris.

- PeterTheAleut
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elijahmaria
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« Reply #47 on: May 24, 2010, 11:48:45 AM »



The way you write above it is as if the financial assistance from the West in the early days of freedom was almost a bride to achieve intercommunion.   Embarrassed

I didn't say it boss...you did.  Which is why I think that ALL monies sent to build Orthodox Churches and Seminaries should stop!...and should never have been sent in the first place because it does get kicked back in our teeth just as you do here,  but I wasn't around calling the shots then.... Grin

I agree. I have not idea why we should be supporting other religions in their endevors.


I do understand it given the fact that the Catholic Church truly has come to the open acceptance of the eastern Orthodox as Sister Churches but I think her open-handed policies have been premature. 

Remember the story I told about the legless man in the bus station who threw my change back when I emptied my pockets and gave him all I had in them.  Maybe I didn't tell it here but it happened to me years ago.  Well in this case, the legless man has kept the money and spits at the giver...frequently.

I realize that one does not give charity for any return, but in this case I think it would have been money better spent to build up people and not to build up Orthodoxy as a religious organization.

As you can see, it is too easily characterized as bribery when it is given to the Orthodox religious organizations.

M.

I do not think that when the "Sister Church" language was used in the past that it meant that we see them as full members of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

Apostolic Succession, graced sacraments, holy liturgies...everything but communion with the Catholic Church....That is a significant change of heart and recognition of reality.

But as I said I think it was premature and done with a bleeding heart and not a clear nous.

M.
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elijahmaria
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« Reply #48 on: May 24, 2010, 11:51:09 AM »



The way you write above it is as if the financial assistance from the West in the early days of freedom was almost a bride to achieve intercommunion.   Embarrassed

I didn't say it boss...you did.  Which is why I think that ALL monies sent to build Orthodox Churches and Seminaries should stop!...and should never have been sent in the first place because it does get kicked back in our teeth just as you do here,  but I wasn't around calling the shots then.... Grin

You were the one who replied No More Money in response to my post on the impossibility of communion until we reach unanimity on doctrine.   Go back and read your own post.

You are the one who suggested the term "bribes" Father.  It is more of your bottom feeding.

And yes...I think that the Vatican needs to pull way back and allow Orthodoxy to go on her own for a while and clean up her own house.  The other Father Ambrose used to tell me that the lunatic fringe did battle on the Internet.  I thought he was wrong then, and I still think he is wrong.  I hoped for a while to be able to believe him, but I have changed my mind.

I think that the conciliatory Orthodox on places like the Byzantine Forum are the lunatic fringe now.

You may take a great deal of credit for that.

Mary

Read Post 35.

I spoke of no communion until doctrinal unanimity.

You immediately replied saying the Catholics should stop giving money.

The connection could not possibly be more clear.  Who's the bottom feeder if not Mary Lanser?

The connection is the one you imputed.  You are still the bottom feeder.

False attribution to my words.  Putting things there that were not there explicitly nor were they intended.

Unfortunate of me not to have second guessed you.

I still think of you as a monk so I fall into that damnable trust-trap every time.

Mary
Just because Irish Hermit torpedoed you with a childish ad hominem doesn't give you leave to fire it right back at him.  For insulting Irish Hermit in the same way that he insulted you, you are receiving the same warning he received.  If you think my action wrong, feel free to appeal it via private message to Veniamin, Fr. George, or Fr. Chris.

- PeterTheAleut
« Last Edit: May 24, 2010, 02:18:26 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged

Irish Hermit
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« Reply #49 on: May 24, 2010, 11:51:27 AM »

[
I think that the conciliatory Orthodox on places like the Byzantine Forum are the lunatic fringe now.

You may take a great deal of credit for that.

Mary

Thanks you for that reference, Mary.  Smiley

On one of the Orthodox traditionalist lists I am constantly accused of betraying Orthodoxy on the Byzantine forum.   People attack me and tell me I should go and join the Roman Catholic Church.
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Irish Hermit
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« Reply #50 on: May 24, 2010, 11:53:29 AM »



The way you write above it is as if the financial assistance from the West in the early days of freedom was almost a bride to achieve intercommunion.   Embarrassed

I didn't say it boss...you did.  Which is why I think that ALL monies sent to build Orthodox Churches and Seminaries should stop!...and should never have been sent in the first place because it does get kicked back in our teeth just as you do here,  but I wasn't around calling the shots then.... Grin

You were the one who replied No More Money in response to my post on the impossibility of communion until we reach unanimity on doctrine.   Go back and read your own post.

You are the one who suggested the term "bribes" Father.  It is more of your bottom feeding.

And yes...I think that the Vatican needs to pull way back and allow Orthodoxy to go on her own for a while and clean up her own house.  The other Father Ambrose used to tell me that the lunatic fringe did battle on the Internet.  I thought he was wrong then, and I still think he is wrong.  I hoped for a while to be able to believe him, but I have changed my mind.

I think that the conciliatory Orthodox on places like the Byzantine Forum are the lunatic fringe now.

You may take a great deal of credit for that.

Mary

Read Post 35.

I spoke of no communion until doctrinal unanimity.

You immediately replied saying the Catholics should stop giving money.

The connection could not possibly be more clear.  Who's the bottom feeder if not Mary Lanser?

The connection is the one you imputed.  You are still the bottom feeder.

False attribution to my words.  Putting things there that were not there explicitly nor were they intended.

Unfortunate of me not to have second guessed you.

I still think of you as a monk so I fall into that damnable trust-trap every time.

Mary

Your ad hominems are becoming less subtle and more evil.  God forgive you.
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Irish Hermit
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« Reply #51 on: May 24, 2010, 11:58:46 AM »


Here is post 35.

What I wrote and how you responded.  I spoke of no intercommunion without unity in doctrine. You responded with "The money has to stop."


It is all empty words without communion.  Very sad to me. 

Mary,  we must be realistic.  We must start where we are at.  I imagine you are not aware that the Orthodox have stated over and over that communion will not be used and cannot be used as a tool towards unity. Instead it will be the crowning point and glory when unanimity is reached on doctrinal issues.

There is a good booklet on this by Bishop Kallistos Ware "Communion and Intercommunion."

I think the Vatican needs to stop giving money to Orthodox countries and pull back from this so-called evangelization project and allow the Orthodox Churches to do what they can to get their own houses in order.   The money shoveled at Orthodoxy can only be tossed back in our faces...after it is spent of course...and called bribes or somebody's due, and the so-called evangelization will consist of the kind of interaction that I am encountering on this Forum at the ground level.

I don't know what the Catholic bishops and cardinals are thinking...but what is happening, from my perspective on the ground, is an egregious waste of time and resources.

Mary

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elijahmaria
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« Reply #52 on: May 24, 2010, 11:59:32 AM »

[
I think that the conciliatory Orthodox on places like the Byzantine Forum are the lunatic fringe now.

You may take a great deal of credit for that.

Mary

Thanks you for that reference, Mary.  Smiley

On one of the Orthodox traditionalist lists I am constantly accused of betraying Orthodoxy on the Byzantine forum.   People attack me and tell me I should go and join the Roman Catholic Church.

Don't break the door down on the way in.... Cool
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Papist
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« Reply #53 on: May 24, 2010, 12:02:36 PM »

[
I think that the conciliatory Orthodox on places like the Byzantine Forum are the lunatic fringe now.

You may take a great deal of credit for that.

Mary

Thanks you for that reference, Mary.  Smiley

On one of the Orthodox traditionalist lists I am constantly accused of betraying Orthodoxy on the Byzantine forum.   People attack me and tell me I should go and join the Roman Catholic Church.
Well you should, but you don't necessarily need to be Roman.   Grin
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elijahmaria
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« Reply #54 on: May 24, 2010, 12:04:02 PM »

Yes, Father and I still mean what I said the way I meant it then and NOT with the meaning that you have falsely attributed to it since...The money that has been sent never was a bribe, was never intended as a bribe.

My thought was that we might as well give money to build Islamic Mosques or Jewish Temples.  We would probably be treated with more respect.  And that is where the thought rested.

I object to having our gifts spit upon and that is ALL I object to.

And now you call me a liar by implication in addition to reading falsely into my message.

And you ask God to forgive ME?Huh

Rather we look to our own failings.

Mary


Here is post 35.

What I wrote and how you responded.  I spoke of no intercommunion without unity in doctrine. You responded with "The money has to stop."


It is all empty words without communion.  Very sad to me. 

Mary,  we must be realistic.  We must start where we are at.  I imagine you are not aware that the Orthodox have stated over and over that communion will not be used and cannot be used as a tool towards unity. Instead it will be the crowning point and glory when unanimity is reached on doctrinal issues.

There is a good booklet on this by Bishop Kallistos Ware "Communion and Intercommunion."

I think the Vatican needs to stop giving money to Orthodox countries and pull back from this so-called evangelization project and allow the Orthodox Churches to do what they can to get their own houses in order.   The money shoveled at Orthodoxy can only be tossed back in our faces...after it is spent of course...and called bribes or somebody's due, and the so-called evangelization will consist of the kind of interaction that I am encountering on this Forum at the ground level.

I don't know what the Catholic bishops and cardinals are thinking...but what is happening, from my perspective on the ground, is an egregious waste of time and resources.

Mary

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Irish Hermit
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« Reply #55 on: May 24, 2010, 12:09:12 PM »

Resolution for today:  Do not respond to any more ad hominems and insults from Ruthenian Catholics.
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Mickey
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« Reply #56 on: May 24, 2010, 12:13:11 PM »

Resolution for today:  Do not respond to any more ad hominems and insults from Ruthenian Catholics.




« Last Edit: May 24, 2010, 12:14:28 PM by Mickey » Logged
Papist
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« Reply #57 on: May 24, 2010, 12:14:55 PM »

Resolution for today:  Do not respond to any more ad hominems and insults from Ruthenian Catholics.
Plank Plank Plank
 For contributing to the quick degradation of this thread with more of your general pugnacity, which is particularly evident in how you've continued your attack on Mickey despite being on Warned status, you are now on Post Moderation.  For the next 40 days, every one of your posts will need to be screened by a moderator before it will appear on the forum.  If you think my action wrong, feel free to appeal it via PM to Veniamin, Fr. George, or Fr. Chris.

- PeterTheAleut
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« Reply #58 on: May 24, 2010, 12:21:06 PM »

Plank Plank Plank


 For contributing to the quick degradation of this thread by essentially calling Papist a troll, you are receiving this formal warning to last for the next month.  If you choose to continue your attack on Papist with such puerile insults, you will join him on Post Moderation.  Feel free to appeal this warning to Veniamin, Fr. George, or Fr. Chris if you think my action wrong.

- PeterTheAleut
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Papist
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« Reply #59 on: May 24, 2010, 12:21:56 PM »

You pick your nose?
 Wink
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« Reply #60 on: May 24, 2010, 12:25:09 PM »

ALL OF YOU KNOCK IT OFF.

YOU ALL SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES.

This thread is locked because you all have no concept of how to engage in a civil discussion with one another.

SHAME.  SHAME.  SHAME.


Schultz, Religious Topics section moderator
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