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Author Topic: More Orthodox vs Catholic Confusion inside Orthodoxy  (Read 4858 times) Average Rating: 0
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elijahmaria
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« on: May 20, 2010, 02:25:00 PM »

What say the members of this forum about this?

++++++++++++++++++++++++

Archbishop says Anti-Pope attacks ‘outside of the church’

By George Psyllides, Cyprus Mail
Published on May 19, 2010

THE [Orthodox Archbishop of Nova Justiniana and All Cyprus, Chrysostomos II,] yesterday slammed religious groups who oppose the Pope’s visit in June, warning that they put themselves outside the Church.

A group, calling itself the ‘Autocephalous Orthodox Church of Motherland Traditions’, has been circulating a booklet entitled Pope: The Cause Of Evil.

“Unfortunately there are in Cyprus too, the mindless who go against the decisions of the official Church,” Archbishop Chrysostomos II said.

He warned that these people were placing themselves outside the Church.

The Archbishop said the Pontiff had been officially invited to Cyprus by the government with the Church’s agreement and “as the official Church we will welcome him with love and respect.”
Chrysostomos II said there will not be any talks between the Church and Pope.

“We will exchange views and I believe his visit will be positive and beneficial for our country and our people,” Chrysostomos II said.

He urged those who opposed the visit to “come round” and listen to the official church.

The 134-page booklet that is being put in people’s mail boxes seeks to remind people of the serious differences between Orthodoxy and “Papism” so that clerics and laypeople “view this visit in accordance with the holy rules of the Orthodox Church."

Among other claims, the booklet makes historical references to the Second World War and the alleged actions of Catholics against the Orthodox.

“Many naïve Cypriots … will tomorrow raise their eyes to view the blessing hand of the Roman Pontiff, ignoring the fact that the blood dripping from this hand has created rivers,” the booklet said. “The institution of Papism is not only godless and antichrist but also criminal and murderous.”

“Popes did nothing substantive to condemn their sinful past and try and correct their crimes,” the booklet said.
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Mickey
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« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2010, 02:40:12 PM »

Among other claims, the booklet makes historical references to the Second World War and the alleged actions of Catholics against the Orthodox.

Sometimes deep wounds heal slowly.
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ialmisry
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« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2010, 02:41:45 PM »

Nothing different from the problems with the Phanar (who installed the archbishop).
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
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                           and both come out of your mouth
elijahmaria
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« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2010, 02:46:22 PM »

Nothing different from the problems with the Phanar (who installed the archbishop).

I've been told for years that when a bishop or patriarch ceases to teach true Orthodoxy they are deposed immediately by the faithful who rise up and remove them.

So far all I hear is beefing and complaining, and truly disrespectful public commentary,  but no removals. 

What's the story with that?

M.
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Robb
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« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2010, 03:35:24 PM »

We all need to work for the day when we will all be one in the spirit, one in the Lord.

We pray that this unity will one day be restored. We are one in the spirit, we are on in the Lord.
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Men may dislike truth, men may find truth offensive and inconvenient, men may persecute the truth, subvert it, try by law to suppress it. But to maintain that men have the final power over truth is blasphemy, and the last delusion. Truth lives forever, men do not.
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elijahmaria
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« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2010, 04:12:49 PM »

We all need to work for the day when we will all be one in the spirit, one in the Lord.

We pray that this unity will one day be restored. We are one in the spirit, we are on in the Lord.

Who loves ya baby!!

Hi Robb. 

Good to see you, truly!!

M.
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ialmisry
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« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2010, 04:16:30 PM »

Nothing different from the problems with the Phanar (who installed the archbishop).

I've been told for years that when a bishop or patriarch ceases to teach true Orthodoxy they are deposed immediately by the faithful who rise up and remove them.

So far all I hear is beefing and complaining, and truly disrespectful public commentary,  but no removals. 

What's the story with that?

M.



Sorry we follow the Lord's agenda and not yours. We're quite fine, thank you.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
elijahmaria
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« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2010, 04:28:08 PM »

Nothing different from the problems with the Phanar (who installed the archbishop).

I've been told for years that when a bishop or patriarch ceases to teach true Orthodoxy they are deposed immediately by the faithful who rise up and remove them.

So far all I hear is beefing and complaining, and truly disrespectful public commentary,  but no removals.  

What's the story with that?

M.

Sorry we follow the Lord's agenda and not yours. We're quite fine, thank you.

Just taking 15 years worth of listening to Orthodox faithful at their word.  Catholics tend to try to heal a problem, not make fun of it or dump it.

That has gotten us into quite a number of tight spots.  But we continue to try to follow the Gospels and lead the beatitudinal life.

Sometimes we fail.

Sometimes holy people rub our noses in it, and we forgive them, because we don't pretend to be holy...we work at it.

Mary
« Last Edit: May 20, 2010, 04:28:58 PM by elijahmaria » Logged

Hamartolos
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« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2010, 05:20:50 PM »

Nothing different from the problems with the Phanar (who installed the archbishop).

I've been told for years that when a bishop or patriarch ceases to teach true Orthodoxy they are deposed immediately by the faithful who rise up and remove them.

So far all I hear is beefing and complaining, and truly disrespectful public commentary,  but no removals. 

What's the story with that?

M.

Sorry we follow the Lord's agenda and not yours. We're quite fine, thank you.

Just taking 15 years worth of listening to Orthodox faithful at their word.  Catholics tend to try to heal a problem, not make fun of it or dump it.

That has gotten us into quite a number of tight spots.  But we continue to try to follow the Gospels and lead the beatitudinal life.

Sometimes we fail.

Sometimes holy people rub our noses in it, and we forgive them, because we don't pretend to be holy...we work at it.

Mary

I like how you 'try' for 40 years after nearly a millennium of persecutions and campaigns, then don't understand why the Orthodox don't 'come around".  The ignorance is truly amazing.  How gospel and Christ like was it when Rome burned the Orthodox Churches down throughout history?  40 years of saying sorry vs. 1,000 of murdering and pillaging don't quite weigh out. 
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elijahmaria
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« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2010, 05:25:58 PM »

Nothing different from the problems with the Phanar (who installed the archbishop).

I've been told for years that when a bishop or patriarch ceases to teach true Orthodoxy they are deposed immediately by the faithful who rise up and remove them.

So far all I hear is beefing and complaining, and truly disrespectful public commentary,  but no removals. 

What's the story with that?

M.

Sorry we follow the Lord's agenda and not yours. We're quite fine, thank you.

Just taking 15 years worth of listening to Orthodox faithful at their word.  Catholics tend to try to heal a problem, not make fun of it or dump it.

That has gotten us into quite a number of tight spots.  But we continue to try to follow the Gospels and lead the beatitudinal life.

Sometimes we fail.

Sometimes holy people rub our noses in it, and we forgive them, because we don't pretend to be holy...we work at it.

Mary

I like how you 'try' for 40 years after nearly a millennium of persecutions and campaigns, then don't understand why the Orthodox don't 'come around".  The ignorance is truly amazing.  How gospel and Christ like was it when Rome burned the Orthodox Churches down throughout history?  40 years of saying sorry vs. 1,000 of murdering and pillaging don't quite weigh out. 

You'd have to show me how the Orthodox are innocent of same...Why don't you begin with Justinian invading Rome and then raping and murdering his way across Europe to Great Britain.

M.
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ialmisry
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« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2010, 05:28:56 PM »

Nothing different from the problems with the Phanar (who installed the archbishop).

I've been told for years that when a bishop or patriarch ceases to teach true Orthodoxy they are deposed immediately by the faithful who rise up and remove them.

So far all I hear is beefing and complaining, and truly disrespectful public commentary,  but no removals. 

What's the story with that?

M.

Sorry we follow the Lord's agenda and not yours. We're quite fine, thank you.

Just taking 15 years worth of listening to Orthodox faithful at their word.  Catholics tend to try to heal a problem, not make fun of it or dump it.

That has gotten us into quite a number of tight spots.  But we continue to try to follow the Gospels and lead the beatitudinal life.

Sometimes we fail.

Sometimes holy people rub our noses in it, and we forgive them, because we don't pretend to be holy...we work at it.

Mary

I like how you 'try' for 40 years after nearly a millennium of persecutions and campaigns, then don't understand why the Orthodox don't 'come around".  The ignorance is truly amazing.  How gospel and Christ like was it when Rome burned the Orthodox Churches down throughout history?  40 years of saying sorry vs. 1,000 of murdering and pillaging don't quite weigh out. 

You'd have to show me how the Orthodox are innocent of same...Why don't you begin with Justinian invading Rome and then raping and murdering his way across Europe to Great Britain.
Where DO you get your "history" from?
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
elijahmaria
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« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2010, 05:31:00 PM »

Nothing different from the problems with the Phanar (who installed the archbishop).

I've been told for years that when a bishop or patriarch ceases to teach true Orthodoxy they are deposed immediately by the faithful who rise up and remove them.

So far all I hear is beefing and complaining, and truly disrespectful public commentary,  but no removals. 

What's the story with that?

M.

Sorry we follow the Lord's agenda and not yours. We're quite fine, thank you.

Just taking 15 years worth of listening to Orthodox faithful at their word.  Catholics tend to try to heal a problem, not make fun of it or dump it.

That has gotten us into quite a number of tight spots.  But we continue to try to follow the Gospels and lead the beatitudinal life.

Sometimes we fail.

Sometimes holy people rub our noses in it, and we forgive them, because we don't pretend to be holy...we work at it.

Mary

I like how you 'try' for 40 years after nearly a millennium of persecutions and campaigns, then don't understand why the Orthodox don't 'come around".  The ignorance is truly amazing.  How gospel and Christ like was it when Rome burned the Orthodox Churches down throughout history?  40 years of saying sorry vs. 1,000 of murdering and pillaging don't quite weigh out. 

You'd have to show me how the Orthodox are innocent of same...Why don't you begin with Justinian invading Rome and then raping and murdering his way across Europe to Great Britain.
Where DO you get your "history" from?

Same place you do.
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« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2010, 05:32:04 PM »

Nothing different from the problems with the Phanar (who installed the archbishop).

I've been told for years that when a bishop or patriarch ceases to teach true Orthodoxy they are deposed immediately by the faithful who rise up and remove them.

So far all I hear is beefing and complaining, and truly disrespectful public commentary,  but no removals.  

What's the story with that?

M.

Sorry we follow the Lord's agenda and not yours. We're quite fine, thank you.

Just taking 15 years worth of listening to Orthodox faithful at their word.  Catholics tend to try to heal a problem, not make fun of it or dump it.

That has gotten us into quite a number of tight spots.  But we continue to try to follow the Gospels and lead the beatitudinal life.

Sometimes we fail.

Sometimes holy people rub our noses in it, and we forgive them, because we don't pretend to be holy...we work at it.

Mary

I like how you 'try' for 40 years after nearly a millennium of persecutions and campaigns, then don't understand why the Orthodox don't 'come around".  The ignorance is truly amazing.  How gospel and Christ like was it when Rome burned the Orthodox Churches down throughout history?  40 years of saying sorry vs. 1,000 of murdering and pillaging don't quite weigh out.  

You'd have to show me how the Orthodox are innocent of same...Why don't you begin with Justinian invading Rome and then raping and murdering his way across Europe to Great Britain.

M.

Open a history book not produced by the Catholic Church and then make a post here.  There is no comparison between Rome and Orthodoxy.  Until Vat. II, the goal of Catholicism was to wipe out any different theologies and they were quite open about that.  Rome even stole some of our churches and made up a new history about them...  Read a text book.
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Formerly known as "mctavix"
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« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2010, 06:34:47 PM »

Nothing different from the problems with the Phanar (who installed the archbishop).

I've been told for years that when a bishop or patriarch ceases to teach true Orthodoxy they are deposed immediately by the faithful who rise up and remove them.

So far all I hear is beefing and complaining, and truly disrespectful public commentary,  but no removals.  

What's the story with that?

M.

Sorry we follow the Lord's agenda and not yours. We're quite fine, thank you.

Just taking 15 years worth of listening to Orthodox faithful at their word.  Catholics tend to try to heal a problem, not make fun of it or dump it.

That has gotten us into quite a number of tight spots.  But we continue to try to follow the Gospels and lead the beatitudinal life.

Sometimes we fail.

Sometimes holy people rub our noses in it, and we forgive them, because we don't pretend to be holy...we work at it.

Mary

I like how you 'try' for 40 years after nearly a millennium of persecutions and campaigns, then don't understand why the Orthodox don't 'come around".  The ignorance is truly amazing.  How gospel and Christ like was it when Rome burned the Orthodox Churches down throughout history?  40 years of saying sorry vs. 1,000 of murdering and pillaging don't quite weigh out.  

You'd have to show me how the Orthodox are innocent of same...Why don't you begin with Justinian invading Rome and then raping and murdering his way across Europe to Great Britain.

M.

Open a history book not produced by the Catholic Church and then make a post here.  There is no comparison between Rome and Orthodoxy.  Until Vat. II, the goal of Catholicism was to wipe out any different theologies and they were quite open about that.  Rome even stole some of our churches and made up a new history about them...  Read a text book.
Just like the EOs massacred the Latins in Constantinople?
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Note Papist's influence from the tyrannical monarchism of traditional papism .
ialmisry
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« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2010, 06:47:07 PM »

Nothing different from the problems with the Phanar (who installed the archbishop).

I've been told for years that when a bishop or patriarch ceases to teach true Orthodoxy they are deposed immediately by the faithful who rise up and remove them.

So far all I hear is beefing and complaining, and truly disrespectful public commentary,  but no removals.  

What's the story with that?

M.

Sorry we follow the Lord's agenda and not yours. We're quite fine, thank you.

Just taking 15 years worth of listening to Orthodox faithful at their word.  Catholics tend to try to heal a problem, not make fun of it or dump it.

That has gotten us into quite a number of tight spots.  But we continue to try to follow the Gospels and lead the beatitudinal life.

Sometimes we fail.

Sometimes holy people rub our noses in it, and we forgive them, because we don't pretend to be holy...we work at it.

Mary

I like how you 'try' for 40 years after nearly a millennium of persecutions and campaigns, then don't understand why the Orthodox don't 'come around".  The ignorance is truly amazing.  How gospel and Christ like was it when Rome burned the Orthodox Churches down throughout history?  40 years of saying sorry vs. 1,000 of murdering and pillaging don't quite weigh out.  

You'd have to show me how the Orthodox are innocent of same...Why don't you begin with Justinian invading Rome and then raping and murdering his way across Europe to Great Britain.

M.

Open a history book not produced by the Catholic Church and then make a post here.  There is no comparison between Rome and Orthodoxy.  Until Vat. II, the goal of Catholicism was to wipe out any different theologies and they were quite open about that.  Rome even stole some of our churches and made up a new history about them...  Read a text book.
Just like the EOs massacred the Latins in Constantinople?
Gee, what were Latins doing in Constantinople? Roll Eyes
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
elijahmaria
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« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2010, 06:52:42 PM »

Nothing different from the problems with the Phanar (who installed the archbishop).

I've been told for years that when a bishop or patriarch ceases to teach true Orthodoxy they are deposed immediately by the faithful who rise up and remove them.

So far all I hear is beefing and complaining, and truly disrespectful public commentary,  but no removals.  

What's the story with that?

M.

Sorry we follow the Lord's agenda and not yours. We're quite fine, thank you.

Just taking 15 years worth of listening to Orthodox faithful at their word.  Catholics tend to try to heal a problem, not make fun of it or dump it.

That has gotten us into quite a number of tight spots.  But we continue to try to follow the Gospels and lead the beatitudinal life.

Sometimes we fail.

Sometimes holy people rub our noses in it, and we forgive them, because we don't pretend to be holy...we work at it.

Mary

I like how you 'try' for 40 years after nearly a millennium of persecutions and campaigns, then don't understand why the Orthodox don't 'come around".  The ignorance is truly amazing.  How gospel and Christ like was it when Rome burned the Orthodox Churches down throughout history?  40 years of saying sorry vs. 1,000 of murdering and pillaging don't quite weigh out.  

You'd have to show me how the Orthodox are innocent of same...Why don't you begin with Justinian invading Rome and then raping and murdering his way across Europe to Great Britain.

M.

Open a history book not produced by the Catholic Church and then make a post here.  There is no comparison between Rome and Orthodoxy.  Until Vat. II, the goal of Catholicism was to wipe out any different theologies and they were quite open about that.  Rome even stole some of our churches and made up a new history about them...  Read a text book.
Just like the EOs massacred the Latins in Constantinople?
Gee, what were Latins doing in Constantinople? Roll Eyes

You see Papist...This is what they do every time.

Don't bother getting upset about it. 

Really.  The truth is out there for people to see and there's no point trading scab-pickers.

M.
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ialmisry
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« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2010, 06:58:23 PM »

Nothing different from the problems with the Phanar (who installed the archbishop).

I've been told for years that when a bishop or patriarch ceases to teach true Orthodoxy they are deposed immediately by the faithful who rise up and remove them.

So far all I hear is beefing and complaining, and truly disrespectful public commentary,  but no removals. 

What's the story with that?

M.

Sorry we follow the Lord's agenda and not yours. We're quite fine, thank you.

Just taking 15 years worth of listening to Orthodox faithful at their word.  Catholics tend to try to heal a problem, not make fun of it or dump it.

That has gotten us into quite a number of tight spots.  But we continue to try to follow the Gospels and lead the beatitudinal life.

Sometimes we fail.

Sometimes holy people rub our noses in it, and we forgive them, because we don't pretend to be holy...we work at it.

Mary

I like how you 'try' for 40 years after nearly a millennium of persecutions and campaigns, then don't understand why the Orthodox don't 'come around".  The ignorance is truly amazing.  How gospel and Christ like was it when Rome burned the Orthodox Churches down throughout history?  40 years of saying sorry vs. 1,000 of murdering and pillaging don't quite weigh out. 

You'd have to show me how the Orthodox are innocent of same...Why don't you begin with Justinian invading Rome and then raping and murdering his way across Europe to Great Britain.
Where DO you get your "history" from?

Same place you do.
Well, in that history Justinian drove out the Arian Vandals oppressing Italy and North Africa (Latin at the time).

That's all of France between Justianian's empire (the Roman one) and Great Britain. So just a little short of raping and murdering his way to there.

Are you that desparate to find an Orthodox moral equivalent to your Crusaders, that you'll malign anyone?
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A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
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« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2010, 07:00:03 PM »

Just like the EOs massacred the Latins in Constantinople?
Why do you always pull out this card?  Huh Your victim complex is showing.  Sad Since you like to bring this topic up passively all the time to score points, why not start a thread on it, where it can be properly hashed out? I don't see how snide remarks like this do anyone any good.

In Christ,
Andrew
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"I will pour out my prayer unto the Lord, and to Him will I proclaim my grief; for with evils my soul is filled, and my life unto hades hath drawn nigh, and like Jonah I will pray: From corruption raise me up, O God." -Ode VI, Irmos of the Supplicatory Canon to the Theotokos
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« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2010, 07:02:14 PM »

Just like the EOs massacred the Latins in Constantinople?
Why do you always pull out this card?  Huh Your victim complex is showing.  Sad Since you like to bring this topic up passively all the time to score points, why not start a thread on it, where it can be properly hashed out? I don't see how snide remarks like this do anyone any good.

In Christ,
Andrew
I bring it up to illustrate that EO hands are not as clean as they would like us to think.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2010, 07:12:08 PM by Papist » Logged

Note Papist's influence from the tyrannical monarchism of traditional papism .
ialmisry
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Hypatos
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« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2010, 07:11:51 PM »

Just like the EOs massacred the Latins in Constantinople?
Why do you always pull out this card?  Huh Your victim complex is showing.  Sad Since you like to bring this topic up passively all the time to score points, why not start a thread on it, where it can be properly hashed out? I don't see how snide remarks like this do anyone any good.

In Christ,
Andrew
I bring it upt to illustrate that EO hands are not as clean as they would like us to think.
Yeah, nothing the Crusaders did can compare to those massacres of the Latins in Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem. Roll Eyes
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
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« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2010, 07:12:50 PM »


Yeah, nothing the Crusaders did can compare to those massacres of the Latins in Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem. Roll Eyes
Oh, yes, I forgot. EO blooshed is of a much higher quality than Catholic bloodshed
« Last Edit: May 20, 2010, 07:18:49 PM by Papist » Logged

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« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2010, 07:15:42 PM »

Nothing different from the problems with the Phanar (who installed the archbishop).

I've been told for years that when a bishop or patriarch ceases to teach true Orthodoxy they are deposed immediately by the faithful who rise up and remove them.

So far all I hear is beefing and complaining, and truly disrespectful public commentary,  but no removals. 

What's the story with that?

M.

Sorry we follow the Lord's agenda and not yours. We're quite fine, thank you.

Just taking 15 years worth of listening to Orthodox faithful at their word.  Catholics tend to try to heal a problem, not make fun of it or dump it.

That has gotten us into quite a number of tight spots.  But we continue to try to follow the Gospels and lead the beatitudinal life.

Sometimes we fail.

Sometimes holy people rub our noses in it, and we forgive them, because we don't pretend to be holy...we work at it.

Mary

I like how you 'try' for 40 years after nearly a millennium of persecutions and campaigns, then don't understand why the Orthodox don't 'come around".  The ignorance is truly amazing.  How gospel and Christ like was it when Rome burned the Orthodox Churches down throughout history?  40 years of saying sorry vs. 1,000 of murdering and pillaging don't quite weigh out. 

You'd have to show me how the Orthodox are innocent of same...Why don't you begin with Justinian invading Rome and then raping and murdering his way across Europe to Great Britain.
Where DO you get your "history" from?

Same place you do.
Well, in that history Justinian drove out the Arian Vandals oppressing Italy and North Africa (Latin at the time).

That's all of France between Justianian's empire (the Roman one) and Great Britain. So just a little short of raping and murdering his way to there.

Are you that desparate to find an Orthodox moral equivalent to your Crusaders, that you'll malign anyone?

I don't know if I've ever been desparate...maybe once when I got hit hard on the head....but even then...

Last time I looked Arians were Christians and Justinian and his wife loved their favored heretics at home and kept putting them in place as Patriarchs,  but for some reason they thought that they had a right to drive the Arian rulers on the mainland out of the land they had conquered.  The pope went and begged Justinian not to do it.  In fact these "barbarians" from the west had instituted something of a small renaissance in the lands that they ruled.  But hey!!...who pays attention to the details?

I can easily imagine that the behaviors then were much like what goes on today...

It's really very unfortunate but if you think that the world outside of Orthodoxy thinks that y'all got a raw deal...well...don't count on it.  

M.

It was the start of a
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« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2010, 07:59:20 PM »


Yeah, nothing the Crusaders did can compare to those massacres of the Latins in Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem. Roll Eyes
Oh, yes, I forgot. EO blooshed is of a much higher quality than Catholic bloodshed
Certainly in a much higher quantity.
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« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2010, 10:51:22 PM »

Just like the EOs massacred the Latins in Constantinople?
Why do you always pull out this card?  Huh Your victim complex is showing.  Sad Since you like to bring this topic up passively all the time to score points, why not start a thread on it, where it can be properly hashed out? I don't see how snide remarks like this do anyone any good.

In Christ,
Andrew
I bring it up to illustrate that EO hands are not as clean as they would like us to think.

Unleavened bread was at the basis of all this....

The use of leavened versus unleaved bread came to be a major cause of division in the Church in Italy and in fact it can be said to be one of the major causes of the Schism between us.

The southern parts of Italy were Byzantine provinces and ruled from Constantinople.  They came under the authority of the Patriarch and not the Pope.  Their liturgy was Byzantine and not Roman and all their clergy and their monasteries were also Byzantine.

When the (Roman Catholic) Normans invaded southern Italy they forced the use of unleavened bread on the churches and monasteries. 

They did away with Byzantine liturgy and monasticism.

They evicted the Byzantine bishops from their cathedrals and replaced them all with their own. 

They closed down around 400 Byzantine monasteries.

When word reached Constantinople that all this was happening in southern Italy this caused a major upset and many Italians were murdered in the riots which resulted. 

However, to be fair to Rome and the Pope of the time,  Rome did not approve of what its own Norman people were doing.  In fact, Rome itself was still using leavened bread. 

But a few years after their invasion of southern Italy the Normans succeeded in taking over the Roman papacy and they placed their own man on the papal throne.
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« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2010, 11:11:05 PM »

Nothing different from the problems with the Phanar (who installed the archbishop).

I've been told for years that when a bishop or patriarch ceases to teach true Orthodoxy they are deposed immediately by the faithful who rise up and remove them.

So far all I hear is beefing and complaining, and truly disrespectful public commentary,  but no removals.  

What's the story with that?

M.

Sorry we follow the Lord's agenda and not yours. We're quite fine, thank you.

Just taking 15 years worth of listening to Orthodox faithful at their word.  Catholics tend to try to heal a problem, not make fun of it or dump it.

That has gotten us into quite a number of tight spots.  But we continue to try to follow the Gospels and lead the beatitudinal life.

Sometimes we fail.

Sometimes holy people rub our noses in it, and we forgive them, because we don't pretend to be holy...we work at it.

Mary

Yikes...Add bitterness to the list..
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« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2010, 11:14:16 PM »

Just like the EOs massacred the Latins in Constantinople?
Why do you always pull out this card?  Huh Your victim complex is showing.  Sad Since you like to bring this topic up passively all the time to score points, why not start a thread on it, where it can be properly hashed out? I don't see how snide remarks like this do anyone any good.

In Christ,
Andrew

I bring it upt to illustrate that EO hands are not as clean as they would like us to think.
Yeah, nothing the Crusaders did can compare to those massacres of the Latins in Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem. Roll Eyes

I didn't think this would really help either and was hoping that an Orthodox wouldn't exacerbate the remark. Sad Can we possibly get back on topic, people? Smiley

In Christ,
Andrew
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« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2010, 11:23:08 PM »

Just like the EOs massacred the Latins in Constantinople?
Why do you always pull out this card?  Huh Your victim complex is showing.  Sad Since you like to bring this topic up passively all the time to score points, why not start a thread on it, where it can be properly hashed out? I don't see how snide remarks like this do anyone any good.

In Christ,
Andrew

I bring it upt to illustrate that EO hands are not as clean as they would like us to think.
Yeah, nothing the Crusaders did can compare to those massacres of the Latins in Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem. Roll Eyes

I didn't think this would really help either and was hoping that an Orthodox wouldn't exacerbate the remark. Sad Can we possibly get back on topic, people? Smiley

In Christ,
Andrew
To be brutally honest, I don't think this thread had a topic to begin with.
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« Reply #27 on: May 20, 2010, 11:41:12 PM »

Just like the EOs massacred the Latins in Constantinople?
Why do you always pull out this card?  Huh Your victim complex is showing.  Sad Since you like to bring this topic up passively all the time to score points, why not start a thread on it, where it can be properly hashed out? I don't see how snide remarks like this do anyone any good.

In Christ,
Andrew

I bring it upt to illustrate that EO hands are not as clean as they would like us to think.
Yeah, nothing the Crusaders did can compare to those massacres of the Latins in Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem. Roll Eyes

I didn't think this would really help either and was hoping that an Orthodox wouldn't exacerbate the remark. Sad Can we possibly get back on topic, people? Smiley

In Christ,
Andrew
To be brutally honest, I don't think this thread had a topic to begin with.

Sadly, I can't argue with that.  Wink

In Christ,
Andrew
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« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2010, 02:15:44 AM »

What say the members of this forum about this?

++++++++++++++++++++++++

Archbishop says Anti-Pope attacks ‘outside of the church’

By George Psyllides, Cyprus Mail
Published on May 19, 2010
Can you post a link for this article so we can read it for ourselves?
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« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2010, 05:57:49 AM »

Anybody know who the group is involved with this protest?  There was a protest last year on Cyprus at the time of the International Catholic-Orthodox Meeting.  Unfortunately on Cyprus some churches rent out their premises for "tourist weddings" which are hugely profitable for the churches and the bishop takes his percentage.  This abuse was the cause of last year's protest by the faithful.    It's very profitable, not just making money from the English, Germans and Scandanavians but many weddings from Israeli couples who cannot wed in Israel because of the restrictive Israeli religious-state laws about mixed marriages and they fly to Cyprus for a wedding and a honeymoon.

Quote
Holy Protestors Force Cancellation of Catholic Wedding

By Charles Charalambous
Cyprus Mail
October 20, 2009

BANNER-WAVING Orthodox protestors yesterday put a stop to a Catholic wedding ceremony at Ayios Yiorgios church in Chlorakas after shouting a string of abuse at the priest and others in the church.


http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2009/10/ecumenist-bishops-showing-their-true.html


The Catholics have a very nice church of their own in this location and there is no need for them to rent Orthodox churches.

The Archbishop was equally vitriolic about these protesters (refer to the article.)
« Last Edit: May 21, 2010, 06:11:52 AM by Irish Hermit » Logged
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« Reply #30 on: May 21, 2010, 08:26:55 AM »

The truth is out there for people to see

Yes.
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« Reply #31 on: May 21, 2010, 08:37:11 AM »

What say the members of this forum about this?

++++++++++++++++++++++++

Archbishop says Anti-Pope attacks ‘outside of the church’

By George Psyllides, Cyprus Mail
Published on May 19, 2010
Can you post a link for this article so we can read it for ourselves?

Google the article title next time.  That is what I had to do.   Somebody sent this to me without the url. 

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/cyprus/archbishop-says-anti-pope-attacks-outside-church/20100519
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« Reply #32 on: May 21, 2010, 01:54:15 PM »

What say the members of this forum about this?

++++++++++++++++++++++++

Archbishop says Anti-Pope attacks ‘outside of the church’

By George Psyllides, Cyprus Mail
Published on May 19, 2010
Can you post a link for this article so we can read it for ourselves?

Google the article title next time.
Nah.  It's your responsibility to post the link, not mine to find it for you. Wink
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« Reply #33 on: May 21, 2010, 01:57:57 PM »

What say the members of this forum about this?

++++++++++++++++++++++++

Archbishop says Anti-Pope attacks ‘outside of the church’

By George Psyllides, Cyprus Mail
Published on May 19, 2010
Can you post a link for this article so we can read it for ourselves?

Google the article title next time.
Nah.  It's your responsibility to post the link, not mine to find it for you. Wink

 laugh  I didn't need it which is why you never needed to find it for me in the first place...

I suggested next time you find it when you need it...The entire article was there intact with references.  I am not obliged at that point to take time to find the url which is easily found in google.  Wink

M.
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« Reply #34 on: May 21, 2010, 02:07:10 PM »

I am not obliged at that point to take time to find the url which is easily found in google. 

Yes you are.
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« Reply #35 on: May 21, 2010, 02:19:23 PM »

What say the members of this forum about this?

++++++++++++++++++++++++

Archbishop says Anti-Pope attacks ‘outside of the church’

By George Psyllides, Cyprus Mail
Published on May 19, 2010
Can you post a link for this article so we can read it for ourselves?

Google the article title next time.
Nah.  It's your responsibility to post the link, not mine to find it for you. Wink

 laugh  I didn't need it
Well, now that makes two of us, because I don't need to find the link either to know that it is full of @#%*.
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« Reply #36 on: May 21, 2010, 02:23:53 PM »

What say the members of this forum about this?

++++++++++++++++++++++++

Archbishop says Anti-Pope attacks ‘outside of the church’

By George Psyllides, Cyprus Mail
Published on May 19, 2010
Can you post a link for this article so we can read it for ourselves?

Google the article title next time.
Nah.  It's your responsibility to post the link, not mine to find it for you. Wink

 laugh  I didn't need it which is why you never needed to find it for me in the first place...

I suggested next time you find it when you need it...The entire article was there intact with references.  I am not obliged at that point to take time to find the url which is easily found in google.  Wink

M.
Technically, and speaking halfway as a moderator with responsibilities to protect this forum against plagiarism and copyright infringement, you DO have an obligation to post a link to any Web page from which you copy large blocks of text intact.
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« Reply #37 on: May 21, 2010, 03:22:52 PM »

What say the members of this forum about this?

++++++++++++++++++++++++

Archbishop says Anti-Pope attacks ‘outside of the church’

By George Psyllides, Cyprus Mail
Published on May 19, 2010
Can you post a link for this article so we can read it for ourselves?

Google the article title next time.
Nah.  It's your responsibility to post the link, not mine to find it for you. Wink

 laugh  I didn't need it which is why you never needed to find it for me in the first place...

I suggested next time you find it when you need it...The entire article was there intact with references.  I am not obliged at that point to take time to find the url which is easily found in google.  Wink

M.
Technically, and speaking halfway as a moderator with responsibilities to protect this forum against plagiarism and copyright infringement, you DO have an obligation to post a link to any Web page from which you copy large blocks of text intact.

I had said earlier that I was sent the article from an Orthodox bishop who did not include the URL.  I did not take the time to do what anyone here can do...look for it.

Is it necessary for me to offer more than the ordinary citations for a text that I DO NOT TAKE from a Web page intact?

M.
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« Reply #38 on: May 21, 2010, 09:54:59 PM »

Quote
I had said earlier that I was sent the article from an Orthodox bishop who did not include the URL.  I did not take the time to do what anyone here can do...look for it.

Is it necessary for me to offer more than the ordinary citations for a text that I DO NOT TAKE from a Web page intact?

M.

Of course you have to provide the source!  Anyone can make up a story and send it by e-mail so it soon becomes an internet rumour.
Let's deal with facts please and provide your sources in the future Mary.
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« Reply #39 on: May 21, 2010, 11:52:38 PM »

Quote
I had said earlier that I was sent the article from an Orthodox bishop who did not include the URL.  I did not take the time to do what anyone here can do...look for it.

Is it necessary for me to offer more than the ordinary citations for a text that I DO NOT TAKE from a Web page intact?

M.

Of course you have to provide the source!  Anyone can make up a story and send it by e-mail so it soon becomes an internet rumour.
Let's deal with facts please and provide your sources in the future Mary.
Exactly! What about that tale that was spread through the email a few years back warning people not to lick their envelopes to seal them? If they did, there was a high chance that teeny tiny cockroach eggs were hidden in them that will get transferred to your tongue and a few weeks later baby roaches come pouring out of your mouth! Shocked  Cheesy

In Christ,
Andrew
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« Reply #40 on: May 22, 2010, 01:11:39 AM »

May there be forgiveness and genuine Christian love between our churches.
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« Reply #41 on: May 22, 2010, 01:33:59 AM »

What say the members of this forum about this?

++++++++++++++++++++++++

Archbishop says Anti-Pope attacks ‘outside of the church’

By George Psyllides, Cyprus Mail
Published on May 19, 2010
Can you post a link for this article so we can read it for ourselves?

Google the article title next time.
Nah.  It's your responsibility to post the link, not mine to find it for you. Wink

 laugh  I didn't need it which is why you never needed to find it for me in the first place...

I suggested next time you find it when you need it...The entire article was there intact with references.  I am not obliged at that point to take time to find the url which is easily found in google.  Wink

M.
Technically, and speaking halfway as a moderator with responsibilities to protect this forum against plagiarism and copyright infringement, you DO have an obligation to post a link to any Web page from which you copy large blocks of text intact.

I had said earlier that I was sent the article from an Orthodox bishop who did not include the URL.  I did not take the time to do what anyone here can do...look for it.
If anyone else can look for the link, I'm sure you can, too.  You posted the material.  That makes you responsible for finding and providing the link.  Don't pass that buck off on us.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2010, 01:34:32 AM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
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« Reply #42 on: May 22, 2010, 01:59:29 AM »

Just to throw it out there, pointing out the evil deeds that were done by Catholics in the past or Orthodox in the past to prove one is better than the other, or something like that, is not very Christian. Yeah, some Roman Catholics went on Crusades and killed a bunch of people and some Orthodox Christians have done things just as bad, but we are to forgive anyway. That is what Christ taught. Let us remove the plank from OUR own eye, rather than pluck the speck out of our brother's. There is no use mentioning such events as crusades, killing of Latins in Constantinople, etc. since where will it take us other than to a place of more hatred?
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« Reply #43 on: May 22, 2010, 08:50:13 AM »

Just to throw it out there, pointing out the evil deeds that were done by Catholics in the past or Orthodox in the past to prove one is better than the other, or something like that, is not very Christian. Yeah, some Roman Catholics went on Crusades and killed a bunch of people and some Orthodox Christians have done things just as bad, but we are to forgive anyway. That is what Christ taught. Let us remove the plank from OUR own eye, rather than pluck the speck out of our brother's. There is no use mentioning such events as crusades, killing of Latins in Constantinople, etc. since where will it take us other than to a place of more hatred?

This is exactly right.  But my experience is that many Orthodox simply deny that Orthodox people ever bore arms against Catholics or that east never abused west in any way, by cheating or breaking their word for example, resulting in suffering and death for westerners. 

So it is the claim of innocence that starts things going hot and heavy.  The assurance that we have that Orthodoxy shed oceans of blood at the hands of Catholics...etc, without anything that ever prompted it, or as though there was nothing ever returned by way of imposed suffering and bloodshed.

There are many instances where the Vatican has made deep and profound apology but that seems always to get thrown in our faces.  I've never seen any similar Orthodox statements, so I can't say if they exist or not.

So it is not an easy thing, but I am with you in spirit on this one.  Best thing is to pray deeply and with great compassion and compunction.


Mary
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« Reply #44 on: May 22, 2010, 09:05:01 AM »


There are many instances where the Vatican has made deep and profound apology but that seems always to get thrown in our faces.  I've never seen any similar Orthodox statements, so I can't say if they exist or not.


There have not been any Vatican apologies.

The heartfelt apologies which John Paul apparently wished to make were subverted by Cardinal Ratzinger who saw John Paul as naively creating a dangerous precedent for the Roman Catholic Church and diminishing its dignity as the Una Sancta.

So grab some of those apologies and see what they became under Ratzinger's influence --- they actually became not an apology to the victims but a prayer offered by the Pope that God would forgive the Roman Catholics who had committed the wrong.

This cunning was not lost on the Orthodox.
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