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Poll
Question: Does your church state, when you marry, you must do everything in your power to raise your children in the Orthodox Church?
Yes - 17 (85%)
No - 3 (15%)
My priest doesn't really care - 0 (0%)
Total Voters: 20

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Author Topic: Orthodox must vow to raise kids Orthodox?  (Read 3348 times) Average Rating: 0
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Kaste
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« on: May 18, 2010, 09:31:14 PM »

Hello my friends!
Before getting permission to marry, Roman Catholics must sign a document stating they will do everything in their power to ensure their children are raised in the Roman Church.  Do Orthodox have this too?

Thanks-
K

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« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2010, 09:52:15 PM »

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« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2010, 09:56:05 PM »

I honestly don't know.  I'll have to ask.
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« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2010, 10:15:29 PM »

I don't know about signed statements, but yes, children of mixed marriages where one spouse is Orthodox are to be raised Orthodox.  The priest should see to that by assitgning each of them a godparent, who bears the principal responsibility, after the parents themselves, of assuring the proper religious education of the godchild.
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« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2010, 10:23:56 PM »

Hello my friends!
Before getting permission to marry, Roman Catholics must sign a document stating they will do everything in their power to ensure their children are raised in the Roman Church.  Do Orthodox have this too?

Thanks-
K



I don't think it is explicitly stated. It's kinda obvious that that would be the case, no??
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« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2010, 11:38:39 PM »

I'm not sure if the marriage document explicitly says it, but in the Coptic Church, during Baptism and Chrismation, the parents vocally take a vow to raise the child in the Orthodox Faith, to instruct them about the faith, and to frequently bring them to the church. They also deny the devil 3 times while taking this vow. I'm guessing it's understood during the marriage ceremony that the children will be raised Orthodox since to be married in the Coptic church, both the man and woman have to be Orthodox.
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« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2010, 12:06:08 AM »

I'm guessing it's understood during the marriage ceremony that the children will be raised Orthodox since to be married in the Coptic church, both the man and woman have to be Orthodox.

If only the Eastern Orthodox would go back to this, then perhaps the ethnically Orthodox wouldn't be leaving the Church in droves once they immigrate. Of course, then there is a significant percentage of converts, but how many of them are simply "on the books"?
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« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2010, 12:18:54 AM »

In the Serbian Orthodox Church the non-Orthodox spouse is asked to sign a document saying they will baptize and raise any children as Orthodox.

The same expectation applies in the Russian Orthodox Church (Abroad) although I know some priests are embarrassed to ask the non-Orthodox person to sign.

It is not a "vow" as such which implies sin if it is broken, but it is simply an honest undertaking.

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« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2010, 08:22:01 AM »

Not raising them Orthodox I take as an excommunicatable offense.  We weren't asked, but we were both Orthodox.
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« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2010, 09:54:05 AM »

According to The Ecclesiastical Law of the Eastern Orthodox Church, written by the noted (and conservative) Serbian Bishop Nikodim Milash a century ago, when blessing an inter-Christian marriage "a declaration was required before the marriage would be sanctioned to the effect that: a) no obstacle would be posed to the preservation of the Orthodox faith of the family; b) all children born of the marriage would be baptized in the Orthodox Church and raised according to its teachings," as quoted in Patsavos, L. (1978). Mixed marriages and the canonical tradition of the Orthodox Church. Greek Orthodox Theological Review, 23 (3-4), 246.

In seminary (Holy Cross), we were taught that an Orthodox Christian could remain in good standing with the Church when marrying a non-Orthodox Christian if:
 
1. The non-Orthodox partner was a Christian (no non-Christians), who was baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

2. The wedding took place with the blessing of the Bishop in a canonical Orthodox church.

3. The couple agreed to raise their children in the Orthodox Church.

Also, of course, in the event of impending divorce, that good standing has to be maintained by going through the proper process of counseling and, if no reconciliation is possible, ecclesiastical divorce in the Orthodox Church (not just civil).
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« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2010, 10:26:13 AM »

According to The Ecclesiastical Law of the Eastern Orthodox Church, written by the noted (and conservative) Serbian Bishop Nikodim Milash a century ago, when blessing an inter-Christian marriage "a declaration was required before the marriage would be sanctioned to the effect that: a) no obstacle would be posed to the preservation of the Orthodox faith of the family; b) all children born of the marriage would be baptized in the Orthodox Church and raised according to its teachings," as quoted in Patsavos, L. (1978). Mixed marriages and the canonical tradition of the Orthodox Church. Greek Orthodox Theological Review, 23 (3-4), 246.

In seminary (Holy Cross), we were taught that an Orthodox Christian could remain in good standing with the Church when marrying a non-Orthodox Christian if:
 
1. The non-Orthodox partner was a Christian (no non-Christians), who was baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

2. The wedding took place with the blessing of the Bishop in a canonical Orthodox church.

3. The couple agreed to raise their children in the Orthodox Church.

Also, of course, in the event of impending divorce, that good standing has to be maintained by going through the proper process of counseling and, if no reconciliation is possible, ecclesiastical divorce in the Orthodox Church (not just civil).
The Greek seems to be the only jurisdiction that has an ecclesiastical divorce that you can get.  The others leave it open (for hope of reconiliation) until one tries to remarry.
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« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2010, 10:39:37 AM »

I do not know about my parish. I know that Father Chris did marry a couple recently where she is Orthodox and he an Episcopalian. And formerly, when our parish had different priests, we did have mixed marriages. But I simply do not know whether there is a formal statement that the non-Orthodox spouse has to sign.
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« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2010, 11:02:54 AM »

The Greek seems to be the only jurisdiction that has an ecclesiastical divorce that you can get.  The others leave it open (for hope of reconiliation) until one tries to remarry.

Well, the competent spiritual court may certainly decide not to grant the divorce, but, at least, one must take the matter before it. That said, there are three reasons why, perhaps, the GOA makes this process a bit more navigable.

First, organization. There are regularly scheduled spiritual courts in the GOA. Some Metropolises even divide the Metropolis up into many regions, making it easier for people to attend. Informal regulations for these spiritual courts of first instance have existed in the past, but, now, the Holy Eparchial Synod is promulgating comprehensive regulations for the entire Archdiocese, clarifying the protocols and offering unity of practice.

Second, education. Dr. Patsavos has had a long and influential tenure in teaching the GOA clergy, and he has been consistent that civil divorce without ecclesiastical divorce is like civil marriage without ecclesiastical marriage -- an ecclesiastical/theological impossibility. Marriage has its true expression and identity in the Church, as do all pastoral matters both good and unfortunate.

Third, godparents, parish council, sponsorship of another marriage, etc. This issue often comes to a head because potential godparents, sponsors (koumbari), and/or parish council members must be Orthodox Christians in good standing. That means that, if only civilly divorced, they must rectify that situation before being considered eligible as a godparent, koumbaros/a, or parish council member. It's not uncommon, actually, for people coming to the spiritual courts to be individuals who had been civilly divorced for some time but who now want to be the godparent of a child in the parish and thus must address any outstanding canonical issues to receive the Bishop's blessing (which, again, gets back to organization, in a certain sense, since Metropolis-level registrars actually review and approve such documentation in advance of the sacrament or installation being given official blessing by the Bishop).
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« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2010, 11:10:12 AM »

The Greek seems to be the only jurisdiction that has an ecclesiastical divorce that you can get.  The others leave it open (for hope of reconiliation) until one tries to remarry.

Well, the competent spiritual court may certainly decide not to grant the divorce, but, at least, one must take the matter before it. That said, there are three reasons why, perhaps, the GOA makes this process a bit more navigable.

First, organization. There are regularly scheduled spiritual courts in the GOA. Some Metropolises even divide the Metropolis up into many regions, making it easier for people to attend. Informal regulations for these spiritual courts of first instance have existed in the past, but, now, the Holy Eparchial Synod is promulgating comprehensive regulations for the entire Archdiocese, clarifying the protocols and offering unity of practice.

Second, education. Dr. Patsavos has had a long and influential tenure in teaching the GOA clergy, and he has been consistent that civil divorce without ecclesiastical divorce is like civil marriage without ecclesiastical marriage -- an ecclesiastical/theological impossibility. Marriage has its true expression and identity in the Church, as do all pastoral matters both good and unfortunate.

Third, godparents, parish council, another marriage, etc. This issue often comes to a head because potential godparents or parish council members must be Orthodox Christians in good standing. That means that, if only civilly divorced, they must rectify that situation before being considered eligible as a godparent or parish council member. It's not uncommon, actually, for people coming to the spiritual courts to be individuals who had been civilly divorced for some time but who now want to be the godparent of a child in the parish and thus must address any outstanding canonical issues to receive the Bishop's blessing (which, again, gets back to organization, in a certain sense, since Metropolis-level registrars actually review and approve such documentation in advance of the sacrament or installation being given official blessing by the Bishop).
I'm afraid it resembles the Vatican's corban factories, the marriage tribunal. It is only that the archdiocese considers ipso facto the divorced in bad standing that the things you mention even come up.  Someone I know whose children are in a Greek school, the priest will not commune him because hasn't an ecclesiastical divorce.  Since he doesn't have the money to get one, nor the inclination, as our priest sees ecclesiastical divorce as an oxymoron, he just foregoes (btw, the wife's serial adultery, proven in court and elsewhere, was only the beginning of the grounds for divorce).
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« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2010, 11:36:12 AM »

I'm afraid it resembles the Vatican's corban factories, the marriage tribunal. It is only that the archdiocese considers ipso facto the divorced in bad standing that the things you mention even come up. 

Can we really know the true reason behind "reforms" in the Spiritual Courts?  Example, How many civilly divorced men had to go through the Ecclesiastical Divorce process to become Archons of the EP?  What's good for them is surely good for the rest of the laity, wouldn't one think?

Someone I know whose children are in a Greek school, the priest will not commune him because hasn't an ecclesiastical divorce. 

Isn't that obvious why?  If the same person was only married in a civil ceremony and divorced in a legal proceeding, the Priest would administer Communion in that situation based on Economy.  Most Priests wouldn't want to deny Communion to those in civil divorce proceedings; however, dissolving one sacramental union is a bit serious.

Since he doesn't have the money to get one, nor the inclination, as our priest sees ecclesiastical divorce as an oxymoron, he just foregoes (btw, the wife's serial adultery, proven in court and elsewhere, was only the beginning of the grounds for divorce).

So there ought not to be Ecclesiastical Divorces because of the hardships one has to undergo to obtain one?   No one forced any individual (besides arranged marriages) to be crowned and walk around the altar 3 times and drink from the common cup.   Wink
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« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2010, 11:42:46 AM »

I'm afraid it resembles the Vatican's corban factories, the marriage tribunal.

Or Russia, Greece, Serbia, etc. -- you know, places where canonical matters aren't decided merely by the whim of the local priest alone. Even in the times of Justinian, wherein civil divorce was paramount, once a decision was reached, the parties were referred to the Bishop for adjudication of how the outcome affects ecclesial status.

But you are right, in a certain sense, I guess: Spiritual courts in Russia or Serbia or Greece are probably far more likely to simply excommunicate.
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« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2010, 11:56:44 AM »

I'm afraid it resembles the Vatican's corban factories, the marriage tribunal. It is only that the archdiocese considers ipso facto the divorced in bad standing that the things you mention even come up. 

Can we really know the true reason behind "reforms" in the Spiritual Courts?  Example, How many civilly divorced men had to go through the Ecclesiastical Divorce process to become Archons of the EP?  What's good for them is surely good for the rest of the laity, wouldn't one think?

I won't insult the vast majority of the laity by making the comparison.  For reasons of full disclosure, I should point out that I believe my ex's first divorce lawyer (she's on the fourth, plus two criminal lawyers for her and the shack up), has taken his place among the Archons.

Someone I know whose children are in a Greek school, the priest will not commune him because hasn't an ecclesiastical divorce. 

Isn't that obvious why? 

Given the position of his own pastor, no.

Quote
If the same person was only married in a civil ceremony and divorced in a legal proceeding, the Priest would administer Communion in that situation based on Economy.  Most Priests wouldn't want to deny Communion to those in civil divorce proceedings; however, dissolving one sacramental union is a bit serious.

So's adultery, and in the case at bar, as I've said, that is only the beginning.

Since he doesn't have the money to get one, nor the inclination, as our priest sees ecclesiastical divorce as an oxymoron, he just foregoes (btw, the wife's serial adultery, proven in court and elsewhere, was only the beginning of the grounds for divorce).

So there ought not to be Ecclesiastical Divorces because of the hardships one has to undergo to obtain one? 

No, they shouldn't exist as our priest puts it "the Church blesses marriages, not divorces" (hence why all the other jurisdictions deal with the issue only when necessary, i.e. a new marriage), and the senseless mutliplication of grief over an already grief filled situation.

Quote
 No one forced any individual (besides arranged marriages) to be crowned and walk around the altar 3 times and drink from the common cup.   Wink
As a side note, your smiley is quite inappropriate.  And no, not many are forced into marriage, but many, MANY are held down by the full force of the law as their family is dismembered, through no fault of their own.
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« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2010, 12:00:08 PM »

I'm afraid it resembles the Vatican's corban factories, the marriage tribunal.

Or Russia, Greece, Serbia, etc. -- you know, places where canonical matters aren't decided merely by the whim of the local priest alone. Even in the times of Justinian, wherein civil divorce was paramount, once a decision was reached, the parties were referred to the Bishop for adjudication of how the outcome affects ecclesial status.

But you are right, in a certain sense, I guess: Spiritual courts in Russia or Serbia or Greece are probably far more likely to simply excommunicate.
They're not up to the whim of the local priest here either, at least in the Antiochian Archdiocese or the OCA.  The former recently reiterated that point, and added that the first thing a priest had to determine was whether the new marriage is arising from the affair of an old one, in which case, as a "lawless marriage," it cannot be blessed.
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« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2010, 12:28:23 PM »

I'm afraid it resembles the Vatican's corban factories, the marriage tribunal. It is only that the archdiocese considers ipso facto the divorced in bad standing that the things you mention even come up. 

Can we really know the true reason behind "reforms" in the Spiritual Courts?  Example, How many civilly divorced men had to go through the Ecclesiastical Divorce process to become Archons of the EP?  What's good for them is surely good for the rest of the laity, wouldn't one think?

I won't insult the vast majority of the laity by making the comparison.

It's not insulting.  The Archons are laity as well, honorifics aside.

For reasons of full disclosure, I should point out that I believe my ex's first divorce lawyer (she's on the fourth, plus two criminal lawyers for her and the shack up), has taken his place among the Archons.

Thanks for sharing.   Smiley

Someone I know whose children are in a Greek school, the priest will not commune him because hasn't an ecclesiastical divorce. 

Isn't that obvious why? 

Given the position of his own pastor, no.

I don't follow....   Huh

Quote
If the same person was only married in a civil ceremony and divorced in a legal proceeding, the Priest would administer Communion in that situation based on Economy.  Most Priests wouldn't want to deny Communion to those in civil divorce proceedings; however, dissolving one sacramental union is a bit serious.

So's adultery, and in the case at bar, as I've said, that is only the beginning.

Many people who do not confess sins receive Communion.  That is on the individual, not on the Priest who distributes Communion unless the Priest is aware of a Communicant's situation.

Since he doesn't have the money to get one, nor the inclination, as our priest sees ecclesiastical divorce as an oxymoron, he just foregoes (btw, the wife's serial adultery, proven in court and elsewhere, was only the beginning of the grounds for divorce).

So there ought not to be Ecclesiastical Divorces because of the hardships one has to undergo to obtain one? 

No, they shouldn't exist as our priest puts it "the Church blesses marriages, not divorces" (hence why all the other jurisdictions deal with the issue only when necessary, i.e. a new marriage), and the senseless mutliplication of grief over an already grief filled situation.

Your Priest trumps Christ who reluctantly allowed for Divorce?

Quote
 No one forced any individual (besides arranged marriages) to be crowned and walk around the altar 3 times and drink from the common cup.   Wink
As a side note, your smiley is quite inappropriate.  And no, not many are forced into marriage, but many, MANY are held down by the full force of the law as their family is dismembered, through no fault of their own.

The smiley was not intended to reflect anyone's situation.  I apologize if you took offense for I was making a general statement.   angel

You are referring to Civil Law in your comments.  Church Law is intended to heal and reunite one to Christ.  If a Sacrament has become broken (e.g. Holy Matrimony), should there be any recourse for persons living in a broken Sacrament?   Huh
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« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2010, 12:46:41 PM »

No, they shouldn't exist as our priest puts it "the Church blesses marriages, not divorces"

Certainly true. The Church never "blesses" divorce, but Her Bishops have, since at least the fourth century, offered official pastoral care to Her members whose marriages have unfortunately dissolved. As in all such canonical matters, the main thing to be decided is the individual's future incorporation into the sacramental life of the Church (or, as necessary, temporary exclusion for reasons of repentance). For many centuries (possibly the vast majority, depending on how you read Justinian's Novels) that pastoral care has involved the official ecclesiastical recognition that a marriage has dissolved (not an official "blessing" of that dissolution); and, more importantly, an official pastoral recommendation for how best to proceed as an Orthodox Christian, fully intent on living within the sacramental life of the Church. The "blessing," if there is one, is to proceed in the reception of the Eucharist, to proceed to stand as a godparent, etc.  

(hence why all the other jurisdictions deal with the issue only when necessary, i.e. a new marriage)

What about when one wants to be a godparent or sponsor a marriage? Also, I would be curious to hear more about the practice in Romania, Serbia, or Russia. Based on what I've read in manuals of canon law from Serbia and Russia, they don't share the understanding or practice that you articulated. I hope others will chime in who are more familiar with the sources or the current reality than I.

Somehow, I feel like we've had this conversation before. This time, I really do hope people from other Orthodox countries actually offer their experience.

, and the senseless mutliplication of grief over an already grief filled situation.

This is an important point. When done right, the process (like all matters of canonical/pastoral care) should be an opportunity for healing and reincorporation into the Church. However, in situations with such volatile and real emotions and realities, it is very, very difficult. But that's pastoral care for you! Hence, why, in practice, I think most people in all churches (including Greece or Romania), especially if the civil divorce was nasty, wait a good while before addressing the matter. And, often, yes, that means waiting until it is absolutely necessary (e.g. another marriage or wanting to be a godparent), but that doesn't mean such a practice conforms to canonical standards -- it's just pastoral reality.
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« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2010, 01:05:43 PM »

I'm afraid it resembles the Vatican's corban factories, the marriage tribunal. It is only that the archdiocese considers ipso facto the divorced in bad standing that the things you mention even come up. 

Can we really know the true reason behind "reforms" in the Spiritual Courts?  Example, How many civilly divorced men had to go through the Ecclesiastical Divorce process to become Archons of the EP?  What's good for them is surely good for the rest of the laity, wouldn't one think?

I won't insult the vast majority of the laity by making the comparison.

It's not insulting.  The Archons are laity as well, honorifics aside.

I'm aware of that: I wasn't worrying about the Archon's honor

For reasons of full disclosure, I should point out that I believe my ex's first divorce lawyer (she's on the fourth, plus two criminal lawyers for her and the shack up), has taken his place among the Archons.

Thanks for sharing.   Smiley

Someone I know whose children are in a Greek school, the priest will not commune him because hasn't an ecclesiastical divorce. 

Isn't that obvious why? 

Given the position of his own pastor, no.

I don't follow....   Huh

Our priest communes him without a problem, in particular as he has cleared everything he has done in the process of the divorce with the pastor first. Technically, he is still the father confessor of the ex, as she hasn't another (she testified in court that she was non-practising Orthodox).  The daughters are unbaptized as of yet, but were made catechumens when the parents converted.  The divorce degree specifies that they must be raised Orthodox and that both parents will foster that. When mom questioned them still being catechumens (it came up in proceedings), she was told by the priest that they were so made, and will so remain as long as dad wants. He further added, that as long as she has custody, he will not under any circumstances baptize them, as they are not being raised in a Christian home.

But back to the Greek priest: it is nice that he is defending the chalice, but his vigilance here is misplaced. As the father (and for that matter, the children and FWIW mom) are not under the omophorion of the Greek bishops, the second guessing of the decision of the Antiochians is problematic.

Quote
If the same person was only married in a civil ceremony and divorced in a legal proceeding, the Priest would administer Communion in that situation based on Economy.  Most Priests wouldn't want to deny Communion to those in civil divorce proceedings; however, dissolving one sacramental union is a bit serious.

So's adultery, and in the case at bar, as I've said, that is only the beginning.

Many people who do not confess sins receive Communion.  That is on the individual, not on the Priest who distributes Communion unless the Priest is aware of a Communicant's situation.

And the priest who is aware of the entire situation, and who has jurisdiction, has rendered said judgement.

Since he doesn't have the money to get one, nor the inclination, as our priest sees ecclesiastical divorce as an oxymoron, he just foregoes (btw, the wife's serial adultery, proven in court and elsewhere, was only the beginning of the grounds for divorce).

So there ought not to be Ecclesiastical Divorces because of the hardships one has to undergo to obtain one? 

No, they shouldn't exist as our priest puts it "the Church blesses marriages, not divorces" (hence why all the other jurisdictions deal with the issue only when necessary, i.e. a new marriage), and the senseless mutliplication of grief over an already grief filled situation.

Your Priest trumps Christ who reluctantly allowed for Divorce?

Our priest doesn't believe in divorce over adutlery, nor does Christ. It is often claimed that one has the option of three marriages.  That is not what St. Matthew nor the canons say, but often people make it say that.

The "ecclesiastical divorce" before remarriage (which, btw, the ex in this case may be seeking soon) except as a drain on already strained resources.  Btw, if she remarries, does he still have to get the "ecclesiastical divorce?"

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 No one forced any individual (besides arranged marriages) to be crowned and walk around the altar 3 times and drink from the common cup.   Wink
As a side note, your smiley is quite inappropriate.  And no, not many are forced into marriage, but many, MANY are held down by the full force of the law as their family is dismembered, through no fault of their own.

The smiley was not intended to reflect anyone's situation.  I apologize if you took offense for I was making a general statement.   angel

You are referring to Civil Law in your comments.  Church Law is intended to heal and reunite one to Christ.  If a Sacrament has become broken (e.g. Holy Matrimony), should there be any recourse for persons living in a broken Sacrament?   Huh
Divorce is not a sacrament, at least not in the Orthodox Church. Confession is.  In the case at bar, the father confessor and the one having jurisdiction has rendered judgement according to the canons.  His readmission to communion at his own parish ought to be enough for the school priest.
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« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2010, 01:21:50 PM »

I'm afraid it resembles the Vatican's corban factories, the marriage tribunal. It is only that the archdiocese considers ipso facto the divorced in bad standing that the things you mention even come up.  Someone I know whose children are in a Greek school, the priest will not commune him because hasn't an ecclesiastical divorce.  Since he doesn't have the money to get one, nor the inclination, as our priest sees ecclesiastical divorce as an oxymoron, he just foregoes.

Why would he need money for an ecclesiastical divorce?  (Beyond the need for postage...)

They're not up to the whim of the local priest here either, at least in the Antiochian Archdiocese or the OCA. 

If you mean divorce, then no, divorce isn't up to the local priest in the GOA: while priests make up the regional spiritual courts, they do not issue decisions, only recommendations that the Hierarch can choose to approve or disapprove of.  That's why there is never a president of the regional spiritual court, only a secretary; the Bishop is the President and the only one who decides (ultimately).

I will say that, in my experience, 95+% of ecclesiastical divorces take place when one of the parties is ready to move on (i.e. get married again).  It is also my experience that, in cases where the cause of divorce is clearly resting on one party (that is, in cases of infidelity, theft, etc.) and not both, that the "more guilty" party is the one which receives harsher canonical penalties (and, technically, is forbidden a second marriage in cases of adultery).
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« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2010, 02:48:17 PM »


Why would he need money for an ecclesiastical divorce?  (Beyond the need for postage...)


I'm certainly no expert, but I wondered this as well. I'm not aware of any huge expense involved with seeking an ecclesiastical divorce.
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« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2010, 02:55:34 PM »

In the GOA, to initiate an Ecclesiastical Divorce,  a processing fee of $100 or $200 applies depending on the Metropolis / Archdiocesan District.

Example, the Metropolis of Denver (as of March 2005 printing) charges $150 fee to process a Divorce (Page 3-7)
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« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2010, 02:57:53 PM »

Divorce is not a sacrament, at least not in the Orthodox Church. Confession is.  In the case at bar, the father confessor and the one having jurisdiction has rendered judgement according to the canons.  His readmission to communion at his own parish ought to be enough for the school priest.

I agree with you on the bolded part.

Confessing to a deteriorated Sacrament of Holy Matrimony doesn't absolve the deteriorated Sacrament.
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« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2010, 03:01:28 PM »

In the GOA, to initiate an Ecclesiastical Divorce,  a processing fee of $100 or $200 applies depending on the Metropolis / Archdiocesan District.

Example, the Metropolis of Denver (as of March 2005 printing) charges $150 fee to process a Divorce (Page 3-7)

Sounds reasonable, and not out of reach, if one really wants an ecclesiastical divorce. (and I'd bet that there are hardship exceptions also.)
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« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2010, 03:06:32 PM »

In the GOA, to initiate an Ecclesiastical Divorce,  a processing fee of $100 or $200 applies depending on the Metropolis / Archdiocesan District.

Example, the Metropolis of Denver (as of March 2005 printing) charges $150 fee to process a Divorce (Page 3-7)

Sounds reasonable, and not out of reach, if one really wants an ecclesiastical divorce. (and I'd bet that there are hardship exceptions also.)
Hang around divorce court: hardship cases abound (as indeed is the case at bar).  The first problem, in this case, would be to transfer to the GOA, for which there is no reason.
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« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2010, 03:10:23 PM »

In the GOA, to initiate an Ecclesiastical Divorce,  a processing fee of $100 or $200 applies depending on the Metropolis / Archdiocesan District.

Example, the Metropolis of Denver (as of March 2005 printing) charges $150 fee to process a Divorce (Page 3-7)

Sounds reasonable, and not out of reach, if one really wants an ecclesiastical divorce. (and I'd bet that there are hardship exceptions also.)
Hang around divorce court: hardship cases abound (as indeed is the case at bar).  The first problem, in this case, would be to transfer to the GOA, for which there is no reason.

In 2010, the GOA Church in question has never had divorced Orthodox Christians from other Orthodox Jurisdictions receive Communion?  Astonishing!
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« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2010, 08:04:40 PM »

Hello, just saw this poll. I have voted 'no' as my partner's priest does not think we must raise the children as Orthodox, but I should say he knows that our children (if we have any) will be raised to know about Orthodoxy as well as my faith, and will be encouraged to attend Orthodox services. So perhaps it is a rather half-hearted 'no'!
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« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2010, 02:25:52 AM »


Why would he need money for an ecclesiastical divorce?  (Beyond the need for postage...)


The Greek Archdiocese here charges $600 NZ for a divorce.   That's about a week's wages for a working man.  No money, no divorce.

That has been the policy of the Greek Archdiocese for the last 30 years under Metropolitan Dionysios Psiachas.

But, 4 years ago the Archdiocese was sent a new and excellent hierarch, Metropolitan Amphilochios Tsoukas.  I do  not know if he has got around to changing this fee for a divorce.
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« Reply #30 on: November 06, 2010, 05:04:01 AM »

“My priest doesn't really care” - ……. ?
Parents must care, It is them duty about kids.

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