Author Topic: Redemptive Suffering  (Read 9093 times)

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Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Redemptive Suffering
« Reply #90 on: May 19, 2010, 04:24:51 PM »
I am trying to understand what you are asking.

First, could you tell me exactly what it means for suffering to be redemptive?
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Online Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Re: Redemptive Suffering
« Reply #91 on: May 20, 2010, 04:27:16 AM »
Gebre,

Do you see a justification for, say, self-flagellation in those verses? What types of self-imposed suffering are you advocating, exactly?

Fasting and praying, prostrations, fidelity in marriage, celibacy before marriage, abstinence from destructive physical pleasures, sacrificially giving alms, allowing ourselves to be injured rather than causing injury, allowing oursleves to be killed rather than to kill, etc...

I cannot really speak to self-flagellation, for this is very subjective and can be defined numerous ways. But off the top of my head I would surmise that bringing inentional pain to one's self for the purpose of subduing the passions is not an unhealthy thing, but to cause intentional injury to one's self is not a godly endeavor. For example, when we excercise we bring intentional pain to our body; but this pain is not injurious, but healthy.

Our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit, and thus we must not defile them- either with sinful pleasures or masochistic torments. St. Paul said, "I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should be disqualified." [I Corinthians 9:27]

But I think that the authentic Christian life in general is essentially a life of sef-imposed suffering. I imagine that every Orthodox poster on this forum has or is suffering in some way. Our Lord told us that if we are to come after Him, we must "deny ourselves, take up our cross, and follow Him." [St. Luke 9:23]


Selam
"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."
Selam, +GMK+

Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Redemptive Suffering
« Reply #92 on: May 21, 2010, 07:05:38 PM »
But off the top of my head I would surmise that bringing inentional pain to one's self for the purpose of subduing the passions is not an unhealthy thing, but to cause intentional injury to one's self is not a godly endeavor.

That sounds agreeable.
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Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Redemptive Suffering
« Reply #93 on: June 03, 2010, 01:07:56 AM »

"A man who, instead of avoiding and running away from sufferings of the heart produced by fear of eternal torment, willingly accepts them in his heart...will be determined, as he progresses, to tighten this bond ever more and more, and will thus advance more quickly. It will lead him to the presence of the King of kings. When this comes to pass, then, as soon as he sees, however dimly, the glory of God, his bonds - fear - will at once fall off, his executioner will hasten away and his heart's grief will turn into joy which will become in him a fountain of life or a spring for ever gushing forth: physically - rivers of tears; spiritually - peace, meekness and unspeakable delight, together with courage and free and unhindered readiness to strive towards every fulfillment of God's commandments."

St. Simeon the New Theologian.