Author Topic: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.  (Read 73869 times)

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Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #180 on: May 11, 2010, 06:15:44 PM »
Can't you just be happy and clap your hands as I suggested earlier?

I think we have a thread on church architecture where your pics would be a good addition.

Try to be tolerant

So what are we discussing? The name of this section is "Orthodox-Catholic Discussion.  ::)

I have brought a subject, Catholicism from a happy catholic, Though you seem to be outplaced when invited to see what I do see in The Church. you seem more ready to disqualify any subject that may honor Catholicism, and though I haven´t yet say anything against "orthodoxy", I haven't given you any motive for you to be upset and yet that is what it seems to bother you.

I am not upset or bothered - in fact, I really like your beautiful pictures, and I admire your love for your Church. Yet, it looks like you and I have different ideas about what "discussion" is...

What Would you like tu discuss

Well, there are hundreds of topics. For example: why Filioque (esp. how could it be adopted by a local council in Toledo without approval of the Eastern jurisdictions, and in the face of the already existing consensus that there should be no additions to the Creed). Or what exactly do the words "vicar of Christ" or "Pontificus Maximus" mean.

Filioque is an adition to emphasize that Christ is God.  No more.  And It worked very well, For 800 years Spain was under Muslims, many of them came from former Christian Land which had problems with arianism, and they were more easy to accept the doctrines of Mohammed which were in line with arianism. Spain however, could take muslims out of its lands. and restablish Catholicism,  the filique proved to work for Spanish defended their faith under the most difficult circunstances. and yet the fire of their faith allowed them to fight back apostasy.

Vicar is a figure of administrative responsability, the vicar is a temporary function done by whom is covering the tasks of a superior, but not suplanting him. In the moment the Titular os the function gets back then the vicar is no more necessary. In the same way, Christ is the Stone over whom the Church is founded, and yet He named Simmon, Kepha, Rock, Stone, Monolith, ¿Was Him puting an idle nickname to Simmon?, In the same Way the lord is the Good Shepherd and yet He entrusts his Flock to Simmon Peter. ¿Was He Playing? not at all. The He Went to His Father promising to come back, mean while we have to carry his word to all the nations. As long as it takes to carry the word of God to all criature, the succesor of Simon Peter, is in charge as Vicarius Christi.

Pontif Maximus is a Title taken from the former emperors of Rome, and refer to the responsability that the pope carries.

« Last Edit: May 11, 2010, 06:19:19 PM by Alonso_castillo »
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Offline stashko

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #181 on: May 11, 2010, 06:26:16 PM »
Maybe he borrowed it ,,,When Russia/Ukraine sent representative to Constantinople they were awed by beautiful Church of St.Sofia and the Liturgy ,iv read they didn't know if they were in heaven or still on earth ,that's how much Holy Orthodoxy Touched them so deeply to there very being...You probably know the story better than i do ...they had to have it..
They checked out Islam ,they didn't care for it,,or Roman catholicism they said ugh not for us...... ;D
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #182 on: May 11, 2010, 06:36:51 PM »
Maybe he borrowed it ,,,When Russia/Ukraine sent representative to Constantinople they were awed by beautiful Church of St.Sofia and the Liturgy ,iv read they didn't know if they were in heaven or still on earth ,that's how much Holy Orthodoxy Touched them so deeply to there very being...You probably know the story better than i do ...they had to have it..
They checked out Islam ,they didn't care for it,,or Roman catholicism they said ugh not for us...... ;D

The reason was beard, not theology, they liked to dress beard, and Rome is mostly shaved, thats all.

Besides ¿Do you really think that being in the presence of God compares with anything that we can touch, see, smelt, hear, taste here in the world? I don't think so.
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Offline stashko

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #183 on: May 11, 2010, 06:42:54 PM »
Maybe he borrowed it ,,,When Russia/Ukraine sent representative to Constantinople they were awed by beautiful Church of St.Sofia and the Liturgy ,iv read they didn't know if they were in heaven or still on earth ,that's how much Holy Orthodoxy Touched them so deeply to there very being...You probably know the story better than i do ...they had to have it..
They checked out Islam ,they didn't care for it,,or Roman catholicism they said ugh not for us...... ;D

The reason was beard, not theology, they liked to dress beard, and Rome is mostly shaved, that's all.

Besides ¿Do you really think that being in the presence of God compares with anything that we can touch, see, smelt, hear, taste here in the world? I don't think so.

No beards wasn't it ... in Islam there's beards.....i think alcohol was the issue there,so no conversion ...
« Last Edit: May 11, 2010, 06:48:08 PM by stashko »
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline stashko

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #184 on: May 11, 2010, 07:02:56 PM »
Give Me Holy Orthodoxy ,Or Give Me Death..... ;D








ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline Papist

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #185 on: May 11, 2010, 07:09:36 PM »
He changed God by Aesteticism.

Do you think that we Orthodox believe in a different God than you Catholics?
Same God.

No! No! No! not at all ,,Not the same..Your trinity is not our Holy Trinity..You Changes to another one ,Holy Orthodoxy doesn't recognize it...
I think I should start keeping a record of your silly posts and perhaps submitt them to Guiness World Records.
"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #186 on: May 11, 2010, 07:19:18 PM »
I Like more Hispanic Baroque.




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Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #187 on: May 11, 2010, 07:21:59 PM »
But there also are good examples of East Europe Baroque.



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Offline stashko

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #188 on: May 11, 2010, 07:22:55 PM »
More Beautiful Orthodox Churche's Architecture ;D















ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline stanley123

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #189 on: May 11, 2010, 07:24:48 PM »
More Beautiful Orthodox Churche's Architecture ;D
















Yes they are beautiful. Hey, Stashko, can we also see the beautiful inside of these Churches. Thanks a lot.

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #190 on: May 11, 2010, 07:26:09 PM »
They Look like Cakes, don´t they?
« Last Edit: May 11, 2010, 07:27:06 PM by Alonso_castillo »
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Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #191 on: May 11, 2010, 07:28:04 PM »
Romanic in Central Europe is also beautiful, this is previous to Gothic.

« Last Edit: May 11, 2010, 07:28:27 PM by Alonso_castillo »
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Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #192 on: May 11, 2010, 07:31:13 PM »
We almost can see the Cid fighting muslims in Spain here.

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Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #193 on: May 11, 2010, 07:33:21 PM »
Venice has a beautiful Cathedral.

« Last Edit: May 11, 2010, 07:33:57 PM by Alonso_castillo »
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Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #194 on: May 11, 2010, 07:35:24 PM »
Also in Venice.

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Offline stashko

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #195 on: May 11, 2010, 07:36:57 PM »
 ;D Orthodoxy Orthodoxy ;D

What Better presentation to the Bridegroom Christ than His Bride The Holy Orthodox Church ....Like a Beautiful wedding Cake worthy of our Bridegroom Christ...







ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #196 on: May 11, 2010, 07:39:16 PM »
East Europe do their best.



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Offline SamB

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #197 on: May 11, 2010, 07:40:43 PM »
Allah Roum!!!!

Sorry, couldn't resist.  Pfffttt!

At least there is agreement He is Roman in some way, unless you're some loser Muscovite I suppose.  ;)
« Last Edit: May 11, 2010, 07:46:31 PM by SamB »

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #198 on: May 11, 2010, 07:42:33 PM »
Nothing like a beautiful dome.

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Offline stashko

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #199 on: May 11, 2010, 07:49:25 PM »
Another few more Wedding Cake's To our Orthodox Bridegroom Christ... ;D




ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline stashko

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #200 on: May 11, 2010, 08:12:29 PM »
More Beautifiul Orthodox Wedding Cakes to the Lord ;D



Chinese Orthodox Church....


Ukrain......
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline stashko

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #201 on: May 11, 2010, 08:33:45 PM »
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline Rosehip

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #202 on: May 11, 2010, 08:55:32 PM »
Beautiful photos, Stashko! Nothing was more wonderful to me as a child than literally breathing in the beauty of the Slavic Orthodox churches-and to this day, there is nothing more tender and heavenly than our churches. We are so blessed!
+ Our dear sister Martha (Rosehip) passed away on Dec 20, 2010.  May her memory be eternal! +

Offline stashko

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #203 on: May 11, 2010, 09:03:01 PM »
To Be Catholic is to dance for Him.



I've read that the Indian /Indigenous people mix roman catholicism and there pagan rituals together,Also they have there own churches with no catholic priests,But there own pagan priests officiate...
Also with the catholic Churches Child Abuse Sex Scandals in the Latin church and around the world many many are turning to Islam in the south of Mexico, also towards Holy Orthodoxy and even Protestantism....
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline Papist

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #204 on: May 11, 2010, 09:10:52 PM »
To Be Catholic is to dance for Him.



I've read that the Indian /Indigenous people mix roman catholicism and there pagan rituals together,Also they have there own churches with no catholic priests,But there own pagan priests officiate...
Also with the catholic Churches Child Abuse Sex Scandals in the Latin church and around the world many many are turning to Islam in the south of Mexico, also towards Holy Orthodoxy and even Protestantism....
So what is this, 312,546,102 for you? I sending this in to Guinnis right now.
"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Offline stashko

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #205 on: May 11, 2010, 09:12:06 PM »
Beautiful photos, Stashko! Nothing was more wonderful to me as a child than literally breathing in the beauty of the Slavic Orthodox churches-and to this day, there is nothing more tender and heavenly than our churches. We are so blessed!

We Are Indeed Blessed...Orthodoxy Forever..
Even Alonso notice the beauty of them when he said they looked like cakes,i completed it, by saying wedding Cake's thats What they remind me of ......
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline stanley123

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #206 on: May 11, 2010, 09:17:45 PM »
Beautiful photos, Stashko! Nothing was more wonderful to me as a child than literally breathing in the beauty of the Slavic Orthodox churches-and to this day, there is nothing more tender and heavenly than our churches. We are so blessed!

We Are Indeed Blessed...Orthodoxy Forever..
Even Alonso notice the beauty of them when he said they looked like cakes,i completed it, by saying wedding Cake's thats What they remind me of ......
Since Catholics agree wholeheartedly that Orthodox Churches are beautiful, it proves conclusively that there are some things that Catholics and Orthodox can agree on.

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #207 on: May 11, 2010, 09:36:05 PM »
Quite elocuent silence about this picture:

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Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #208 on: May 11, 2010, 09:37:26 PM »
The same silence for this other one.

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Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #209 on: May 11, 2010, 09:42:23 PM »
Only by Him can we undestand those seminaries


« Last Edit: May 11, 2010, 09:52:16 PM by Alonso_castillo »
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Offline Papist

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #210 on: May 11, 2010, 09:43:33 PM »
Only by this can we undestand those seminaries


I wish that our faith was this vibrant in the United States.
"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #211 on: May 11, 2010, 09:46:06 PM »
Only by this can we undestand those seminaries


I wish that our faith was this vibrant in the United States.

Pray, and work.
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Offline LBK

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #212 on: May 11, 2010, 09:58:30 PM »
Alonso, for a church which claims to follow the rulings of the first seven ecumenical councils, why is there a figure of a lamb holding a crozier with a banner? Canon 28 of the Seventh Ecumenical Council has something to say about this sort of portrayal of Christ.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #213 on: May 11, 2010, 10:32:20 PM »
We Catholics are very use to be self critics, to see what is whrong in the church and then do nothing about, but by that way we only multiply the poison, we don't heal the wound, To Be Catholic means to be obedient, means to work speaking about the importance of God in our lives, and living according to that belief. Means to teach those who may know less than me about Christ, meanst to teach them how to deffend the church, the One of Our Lord.
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Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #214 on: May 11, 2010, 10:33:32 PM »
Alonso, for a church which claims to follow the rulings of the first seven ecumenical councils, why is there a figure of a lamb holding a crozier with a banner? Canon 28 of the Seventh Ecumenical Council has something to say about this sort of portrayal of Christ.

Nice that such is all what you can say about the picture. LOL  :D
« Last Edit: May 11, 2010, 10:34:17 PM by Alonso_castillo »
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #215 on: May 11, 2010, 11:03:40 PM »
Beautiful Orthodoxy...
Beauty shall save the world..

¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ WHAT ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

It's a famous quote from a famous Catholic, Dostoevsky.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Papa Gregorio

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #216 on: May 11, 2010, 11:06:10 PM »
Quote
To be Catholic is to be Orthodox, It doesn't matter if you are Eastern Catholic or Latin Catholic, we both are Orthodox. I don't like to differenciate between Byzantine Catholics and Latin Catholics, because to me we both are the same people of the Lord, we remain in comunion with Peter's Succesor.

Quote
To be Catholic is to be in comunion with all the Fathers of the Church. Who are also in communion with The succesor of St Peter in Rome.

Ss. Firmilian of Caesarea and Cyprian of Carthage thought otherwise. St. Firmilian vilifies Pope Stephen in his letter to St. Cyprian:

“Those who are at Rome do not in all respects observe the things handed down from the beginning; and anyone may see that their claim to apostolicity is a vain one, from the fact that in the celebration of Easter and many other sacraments and divine things there are certain divergencies among them…So in most of the other provinces too, there are many variations due to the difference in places and names; and yet on this account there is no departure form the peace and unity of the Catholic Church. Such a departure Stephen has now dared to make by breaking the peace against you which his predecessors always kept with you in mutual love and honour. In this way he defames the blessed apostles Peter and Paul…In view of this I am rightly indignant at the folly of Stephen so open and conspicuous. He who so boasts about the place of his bishopric and insists that he holds his succession from Peter, on whom the foundations of the Church were laid, is introducing many other rocks and is building many new churches, as long as he supports their baptism with his authority…You Africans can say this against Stephen, that when you discovered the truth you abandoned the error of custom. But we join truth and custom together, and to the custom of the Romans we oppose a custom based on truth and thus we maintain the tradition which has been handed down…Yea, thou [Stephen] art worse than all the heretics; for when the multitude discovers its mistake and comes to these to receive the true light of the Church, thou abettest the errors of those who come…For thou didst cut thyself off; be not deceived; for he who has made himself and apostate from the communion of the united Church is truly the schismatic. For while thou thinkest that all may be excommunicated by thee, thou hast excommunicated thyself alone from all”. (Giles, E 1952, Documents illustrating papal authority: A.D. 96-454, Hyperion Press, Westport).

K. Morrison provides a synopsis of the events:

"In a letter to Cyprian, Firmilian endorsed everything the bishop of Carthage had said and added a few strokes of his own...Recalling the earlier dispute about the date of Easter, he upheld the practice of Asia Minor by commenting that, in the celebration of Easter and in many other matters, the Romans did not observe the practices established in the age of the Apostles, though they vainly claimed apostolic authority for their aberrant forms. The decree of Stephen was the most recent instance of such audacity, an instance so grave that Firmilian ranked Stephen among heretics and blasphemers and compared his doctrines and discipline with the perfidy of Judas. The Apostles did not command as Stephen commanded, Firmilian wrote, nor did Christ establish the primacy which he claimed...To the Roman custom, Firmilian, like Cyprian, opposed the custom of truth, ‘holding from the beginning that which was delivered by Christ and the Apostles.’ And, Firmilian argued, by his violence and obstinacy, Stephen had apostacized from the communion of ecclesiastical unity; far from cutting heretics off from his communion, he had cut himself off from the orthodox and made himself ‘a stranger in all respects from his brethren, rebelling against the sacrament and the faith with the madness of contumacious discord…’ (Morrison, K 1969, Tradition and Authority in the Western Church, Princeton: Princeton University, pp. 31-32).

St. Columbanus also thought otherwise:

"Thus it is, then, that as your honour was great, in consideration of the dignity of the chair; so you have need of great care, that you lose not your dignity through any perversity. For so long shall power remain with you, as right reason remains with you. For the key-keeper of the Kingdom of Heaven is He who, by true knowledge, opens to the worthy, and shuts to the unworthy; otherwise, if He do the contrary, he will be able neither to open nor to shut. Seeing, then, that these are true principles, and received as indisputably true by all the wise—since you (because forsooth, no one is ignorant how our Saviour gave to St. Peter the keys of the kingdom of Heaven)—since you, I say, assume to yourselves, by some arrogance or other, I know not what, an authority and power in Divine things above others, know that, if you even think such a thing in your hearts, the less will your power be with the Lord; because that which makes unity of power and prerogative, all the world over, is unity of faith..." Epistola S. Columbani ad Bonifacium Papam IV. Maxima Bibliotheca Bibliotheca Veterum Patrum. Volume 12.

For I do grieve, I confess, for the infamy of the chair of St. Peter. . . . The storm threatens the wreck of the ship of the church; and hence it is that I, a timid sailor, cry out, 'Keep watch, for the water has already made its
entrance into the vessel, and the ship is in jeopardy. For we are the disciples of Saints Peter and Paul, and of all those their disciples who by the Holy Ghost have written the divine canon. Yes, we, the whole body of the Irish, who are inhibitors of the ends of the world, and receive nothing beyond the teaching of the evangelists and the apostles. There has never been amongst us any heretic, any Judaizer, any schismatic; but the catholic faith has been held unshaken by us, as it was first delivered to us by you, the successors, to be sure, of the holy apostles.... Therefore that thou mayest not be deprived of apostolic honour, preserve the apostolic faith, confirm it by testimony, strengthen it by writing, fortify it by synod, to the end that none may justly resist thee. Despise not the poor advice of a
stranger, as being a teacher of one who is zealous for thy sake. The world is now drawing to an end; the Prince of Pastors is approaching; beware lest he find thee remiss and negligent, both beating thy fellowservants with the blows of an evil example, and eating and drinking with Hebrews; lest what follows (in that place of Scripture) befall thee, as the consequence of thy security. 'For he who is ignorant shall be ignorant' (1 Cor. xiv. 38). Watch, therefore, I pray thee, O pope; watch, and again I say watch, because, doubtless, Vigilius did not keep Vigil, whom those who throw blame upon thee cry out to be the head of the scandal...Lest, therefore, the murderer from the beginning (Satan) bind men in this his very long cord of error, let the cause, I beseech thee, of the schism be immediately cut off from thee by the sword, as it were, of St. Peter, that is, by a true confession of faith in a synod, and by a renouncing of all heretics, that thou mayest cleanse the chair of Peter from every error; nay, horror! if any (as is reported) has gained an entrance there, if not, that its purity may be known of all. For it is doleful, nay, deplorable, if in an apostolic seat the catholic faith is not held . . ." (Bossuet, Defensio Cler. Gal. Lib. VII., cap. xxiv.)

On the embarrassment suffered by Pope Vigilius at the 5th Ecumenical Council, Klaus Schatz, a Jesuit professor of theology, makes the following assessment. Note the part in bold:


"Pope Vigilius (537-555), who had very little backbone in conflict situations, first gave way and condemned the three chapters in his Iudicatum of 548. Faced with a storm of protest in the West, where the pope was accused of betraying Chalcedon, he made an about-face and retracted his condemnation (Constitutum, 553). The emperor in turn called a council at Constantinople (the Second Council of Constantinople, 553) made up only of opponents of the three chapters. It not only condemned those three chapters but even excommunicated the pope. This was a unique case of an ecumenical council setting itself clearly against the pope and yet not suffering the fate of Ephesus II. Instead, over time it was accepted and even recognized as valid by the pope. The council got around the papal opposition by referring to Matthew 18:20 (“Where two or three are gathered in my name…”): no individual council could therefore forestall the decision of the universal Church. This kind of argument was invalid, of course, because the pope was not alone; the entire West was behind him, and yet it was not represented at the council. Broken in spirit, Vigilius capitulated after the end of the council and assented to its condemnation of the three chapters. The result was a schism in the West, where the pope was accused of having surrendered Chalcedon. A North African synod of bishops excommunicated the pope, and the ecclesial provinces of Milan and Aquileia broke communion with Rome….The Spanish Church did not separate from Rome, but throughout the Middle Ages it refused to recognize this Council. The authority of the papacy in the West had suffered a severe blow with regard to dogma as well (Schatz, Klaus, Papal Primacy. From Its Origins to the Present, 1996, Liturgical Press: Collegeville, p. 53).


Quote
To Be catholic is also to be where St. Paul is

Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? (1 Cor. 1:12-13)

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #217 on: May 11, 2010, 11:12:30 PM »
Beautiful Orthodoxy...
Beauty shall save the world..

¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ WHAT ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?


I think this saying came out ,upon the conversion of Holy Russia/Ukrainia to the true light of Holy Orthodoxy.....



I thought it was a quote from Dostoyevsky (from "Brothers Karamazov").



I've heard "the Idiot." I don't remember, but apropos.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #218 on: May 11, 2010, 11:33:45 PM »
Continues the elocuent silence on the pictures.

« Last Edit: May 11, 2010, 11:35:41 PM by Alonso_castillo »
Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #219 on: May 11, 2010, 11:40:11 PM »
This picture kept you shut up too. Wonder Why?

By the Way, The pope was not materially present but by satellital transmition, and yet the whole stadium was silence when live Vatican images arrived, they were in adoration of The Holy Eucharist in St Peter´s Basilica, Then the pope was so ill that many started to cry tears of compasion, God Bless JPII.




« Last Edit: May 11, 2010, 11:45:13 PM by Alonso_castillo »
Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #220 on: May 11, 2010, 11:41:33 PM »
Continues the elocuent silence on the pictures.
What in particular are they supposed to say?
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #221 on: May 11, 2010, 11:44:10 PM »
This picture kept you shut up too. Wonder Why?


Looks like the Hajj.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #222 on: May 11, 2010, 11:47:33 PM »
This picture kept you shut up too. Wonder Why?


Looks like the Hajj.


Yes like those muslims you were unable to convert that finally got all your divided community, a failed eclesiology.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2010, 11:52:59 PM by Alonso_castillo »
Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #223 on: May 11, 2010, 11:47:57 PM »
Quote
Do you think that we Orthodox believe in a different God than you Catholics?

Heb 13, 17

Obey your leaders and defer to them, for they keep watch over you and will have to give an account, that they may fulfill their task with joy and not with sorrow, for that would be of no advantage to you.


¿Do you see? you are desobedient.


To whom?
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #224 on: May 11, 2010, 11:51:52 PM »
Quote
Do you think that we Orthodox believe in a different God than you Catholics?

Heb 13, 17

Obey your leaders and defer to them, for they keep watch over you and will have to give an account, that they may fulfill their task with joy and not with sorrow, for that would be of no advantage to you.


¿Do you see? you are desobedient.


To whom?

The ones in communion with the succesor of St. Peter.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2010, 11:52:13 PM by Alonso_castillo »
Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam