Author Topic: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.  (Read 75348 times)

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Offline Michał

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #90 on: May 11, 2010, 05:09:12 AM »
To Be Catholic is to Honor Our Lord in His Temples.

So many beautiful altars. Why don't Catholics use them anymore? Can you tell me, Alonso_castillo?

Offline Alpo

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #91 on: May 11, 2010, 07:41:49 AM »
To Be catholic is to Pray Together

Huh? People holding hands during mass? To be Catholic is to participate in liturgical abuses?
I just need to find out how to say it in Slavonic!

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #92 on: May 11, 2010, 08:06:06 AM »
To Be Catholic is to Honor Our Lord in His Temples.

So many beautiful altars. Why don't Catholics use them anymore? Can you tell me, Alonso_castillo?

Do you refer to celebrate ad orierntem?

http://www.youtube.com/v/aGzExgJRfiA
Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #93 on: May 11, 2010, 08:10:55 AM »
To Be catholic is to be Blessed by His Mother

Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #94 on: May 11, 2010, 08:14:53 AM »
To Be Catholic is to remember His pasion and celebrating His Resurrection



Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #95 on: May 11, 2010, 09:08:16 AM »
Saint Peter's in the Vatican.

In the foreground the Russian Orthodox cathedral of Saint Catherine



Lets Hope Russian get closer to Vatican, as close as to be united.
Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #96 on: May 11, 2010, 09:12:35 AM »
We also have a beautiful Cathedral in Moscow.

Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam

Offline Heorhij

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #97 on: May 11, 2010, 09:39:00 AM »
Can't you just be happy and clap your hands as I suggested earlier?

I think we have a thread on church architecture where your pics would be a good addition.

Try to be tolerant

So what are we discussing? The name of this section is "Orthodox-Catholic Discussion.  ::)

I have brought a subject, Catholicism from a happy catholic, Though you seem to be outplaced when invited to see what I do see in The Church. you seem more ready to disqualify any subject that may honor Catholicism, and though I haven´t yet say anything against "orthodoxy", I haven't given you any motive for you to be upset and yet that is what it seems to bother you.

I am not upset or bothered - in fact, I really like your beautiful pictures, and I admire your love for your Church. Yet, it looks like you and I have different ideas about what "discussion" is...
Love never fails.

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #98 on: May 11, 2010, 09:40:54 AM »
Can't you just be happy and clap your hands as I suggested earlier?

I think we have a thread on church architecture where your pics would be a good addition.

Try to be tolerant

So what are we discussing? The name of this section is "Orthodox-Catholic Discussion.  ::)

I have brought a subject, Catholicism from a happy catholic, Though you seem to be outplaced when invited to see what I do see in The Church. you seem more ready to disqualify any subject that may honor Catholicism, and though I haven´t yet say anything against "orthodoxy", I haven't given you any motive for you to be upset and yet that is what it seems to bother you.

I am not upset or bothered - in fact, I really like your beautiful pictures, and I admire your love for your Church. Yet, it looks like you and I have different ideas about what "discussion" is...

What Would you like tu discuss
Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #99 on: May 11, 2010, 09:45:28 AM »
Cristo ha resucitado!
Alonso! Wondered what happened to you.
To be catholic is to be confident in the promes of the Lord that This church will last to the end of the times.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadaver_synod


This is the Faith of the pre-schism Church:
When he was Orthodox. We still would "follow" him, if he followed the Fathers. Let him confess the Orthodox Faith, and he shall be first.

St. Symeon of Thessalonica (15th cent., after the sack of Constantinople) writes:

One should not contradict the Latins when they say that the Bishop of Rome is the first. This primacy is not harmful to the Church. Let them only prove his faithfulness to the faith of Peter and to that of the successors of Peter. If it is so, let him enjoy all the privileges of pontiff ... Let the Bishop of Rome be succesor of the orthodoxy of Sylvester and Agatho, of Leo, Liberius, Martin and Gregory, then we also will call him Apostolic and first among other bishops; then we also will obey him, not only as Peter, but as the Savior Himself
.....
Usurping as his own possession the Catholic Church of Christ, by occupancy, as he boasts, of the Episcopal Throne of St. Peter, he desires to deceive the more simple into apostasy from Orthodoxy, choosing for the basis of all theological instruction these paradoxical words (p. 10, 1.29): "nor is there any reason why ye refuse a return to the true Church and Communion with this my holy Throne"...As to the supremacy, since we are not setting forth a treatise, let the same great Basil present the matter in a f'ew words, "I preferred to address myself to Him who is Head over them."..For all this we have esteemed it our paternal and brotherly need, and a sacred duty, by our present admonition to confirm you in the Orthodoxy you hold from your forefathers, and at the same time point out the emptiness of the syllogisms of the Bishop of Rome, of which he is manifestly himself aware. For not from his Apostolic Confession does he glorify his Throne, but from his Apostolic Throne seeks to establish his dignity, and from his dignity, his Confession. The truth is the other way... But if his Holiness had sent us statements concordant and in unison with the seven holy Ecumenical Councils, instead of boasting of the piety of his predecessors lauded by our predecessors and fathers in an Ecumenical Council, he might justly have gloried in his own orthodoxy, declaring his own goodness instead of that of his fathers. Therefore let his Holiness be assured, that if, even now, he will write us such things as two hundred fathers on investigation and inquiry shall find consonant and agreeing with the said former Councils, then, we say, he shall hear from us sinners today, not only, "Peter has so spoken," or anything of like honor, but this also, "Let the holy hand be kissed which has wiped away the tears of the Catholic Church."
http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/encyc_1848.aspx

The best analogy I've ever seen is this:
Quote
Here it is obvious that the faith was kept at Rome, by those who resort there from all quarters. She was a mirror of the Catholic World, owing here orthodoxy to them; not the Sun, dispensing her own light to others, but the glass bringing their rays into a focus.
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.ix.iv.iv.html
« Last Edit: May 11, 2010, 09:47:15 AM by ialmisry »
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Papist

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #100 on: May 11, 2010, 09:48:24 AM »
Cristo ha resucitado!
Alonso! Wondered what happened to you.
To be catholic is to be confident in the promes of the Lord that This church will last to the end of the times.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadaver_synod


This is the Faith of the pre-schism Church:
When he was Orthodox. We still would "follow" him, if he followed the Fathers. Let him confess the Orthodox Faith, and he shall be first.

St. Symeon of Thessalonica (15th cent., after the sack of Constantinople) writes:

One should not contradict the Latins when they say that the Bishop of Rome is the first. This primacy is not harmful to the Church. Let them only prove his faithfulness to the faith of Peter and to that of the successors of Peter. If it is so, let him enjoy all the privileges of pontiff ... Let the Bishop of Rome be succesor of the orthodoxy of Sylvester and Agatho, of Leo, Liberius, Martin and Gregory, then we also will call him Apostolic and first among other bishops; then we also will obey him, not only as Peter, but as the Savior Himself
.....
Usurping as his own possession the Catholic Church of Christ, by occupancy, as he boasts, of the Episcopal Throne of St. Peter, he desires to deceive the more simple into apostasy from Orthodoxy, choosing for the basis of all theological instruction these paradoxical words (p. 10, 1.29): "nor is there any reason why ye refuse a return to the true Church and Communion with this my holy Throne"...As to the supremacy, since we are not setting forth a treatise, let the same great Basil present the matter in a f'ew words, "I preferred to address myself to Him who is Head over them."..For all this we have esteemed it our paternal and brotherly need, and a sacred duty, by our present admonition to confirm you in the Orthodoxy you hold from your forefathers, and at the same time point out the emptiness of the syllogisms of the Bishop of Rome, of which he is manifestly himself aware. For not from his Apostolic Confession does he glorify his Throne, but from his Apostolic Throne seeks to establish his dignity, and from his dignity, his Confession. The truth is the other way... But if his Holiness had sent us statements concordant and in unison with the seven holy Ecumenical Councils, instead of boasting of the piety of his predecessors lauded by our predecessors and fathers in an Ecumenical Council, he might justly have gloried in his own orthodoxy, declaring his own goodness instead of that of his fathers. Therefore let his Holiness be assured, that if, even now, he will write us such things as two hundred fathers on investigation and inquiry shall find consonant and agreeing with the said former Councils, then, we say, he shall hear from us sinners today, not only, "Peter has so spoken," or anything of like honor, but this also, "Let the holy hand be kissed which has wiped away the tears of the Catholic Church."
http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/encyc_1848.aspx

The best analogy I've ever seen is this:
Quote
Here it is obvious that the faith was kept at Rome, by those who resort there from all quarters. She was a mirror of the Catholic World, owing here orthodoxy to them; not the Sun, dispensing her own light to others, but the glass bringing their rays into a focus.
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.ix.iv.iv.html

What is your point?
"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #101 on: May 11, 2010, 09:57:26 AM »
Cristo ha resucitado!
Alonso! Wondered what happened to you.
To be catholic is to be confident in the promes of the Lord that This church will last to the end of the times.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadaver_synod


This is the Faith of the pre-schism Church:
When he was Orthodox. We still would "follow" him, if he followed the Fathers. Let him confess the Orthodox Faith, and he shall be first.

St. Symeon of Thessalonica (15th cent., after the sack of Constantinople) writes:

One should not contradict the Latins when they say that the Bishop of Rome is the first. This primacy is not harmful to the Church. Let them only prove his faithfulness to the faith of Peter and to that of the successors of Peter. If it is so, let him enjoy all the privileges of pontiff ... Let the Bishop of Rome be succesor of the orthodoxy of Sylvester and Agatho, of Leo, Liberius, Martin and Gregory, then we also will call him Apostolic and first among other bishops; then we also will obey him, not only as Peter, but as the Savior Himself
.....
Usurping as his own possession the Catholic Church of Christ, by occupancy, as he boasts, of the Episcopal Throne of St. Peter, he desires to deceive the more simple into apostasy from Orthodoxy, choosing for the basis of all theological instruction these paradoxical words (p. 10, 1.29): "nor is there any reason why ye refuse a return to the true Church and Communion with this my holy Throne"...As to the supremacy, since we are not setting forth a treatise, let the same great Basil present the matter in a f'ew words, "I preferred to address myself to Him who is Head over them."..For all this we have esteemed it our paternal and brotherly need, and a sacred duty, by our present admonition to confirm you in the Orthodoxy you hold from your forefathers, and at the same time point out the emptiness of the syllogisms of the Bishop of Rome, of which he is manifestly himself aware. For not from his Apostolic Confession does he glorify his Throne, but from his Apostolic Throne seeks to establish his dignity, and from his dignity, his Confession. The truth is the other way... But if his Holiness had sent us statements concordant and in unison with the seven holy Ecumenical Councils, instead of boasting of the piety of his predecessors lauded by our predecessors and fathers in an Ecumenical Council, he might justly have gloried in his own orthodoxy, declaring his own goodness instead of that of his fathers. Therefore let his Holiness be assured, that if, even now, he will write us such things as two hundred fathers on investigation and inquiry shall find consonant and agreeing with the said former Councils, then, we say, he shall hear from us sinners today, not only, "Peter has so spoken," or anything of like honor, but this also, "Let the holy hand be kissed which has wiped away the tears of the Catholic Church."
http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/encyc_1848.aspx

The best analogy I've ever seen is this:
Quote
Here it is obvious that the faith was kept at Rome, by those who resort there from all quarters. She was a mirror of the Catholic World, owing here orthodoxy to them; not the Sun, dispensing her own light to others, but the glass bringing their rays into a focus.
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.ix.iv.iv.html

What is your point?
There was a point to this thread?  I hadn't noticed....
« Last Edit: May 11, 2010, 10:01:34 AM by ialmisry »
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #102 on: May 11, 2010, 09:59:47 AM »
Can't you just be happy and clap your hands as I suggested earlier?

I think we have a thread on church architecture where your pics would be a good addition.

Try to be tolerant

So what are we discussing? The name of this section is "Orthodox-Catholic Discussion.  ::)

I have brought a subject, Catholicism from a happy catholic, Though you seem to be outplaced when invited to see what I do see in The Church. you seem more ready to disqualify any subject that may honor Catholicism, and though I haven´t yet say anything against "orthodoxy", I haven't given you any motive for you to be upset and yet that is what it seems to bother you.

I am not upset or bothered - in fact, I really like your beautiful pictures, and I admire your love for your Church. Yet, it looks like you and I have different ideas about what "discussion" is...

What Would you like tu discuss
Well, for one thing, your promotion of the Vatican instead of the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Heorhij

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #103 on: May 11, 2010, 10:02:46 AM »
Can't you just be happy and clap your hands as I suggested earlier?

I think we have a thread on church architecture where your pics would be a good addition.

Try to be tolerant

So what are we discussing? The name of this section is "Orthodox-Catholic Discussion.  ::)

I have brought a subject, Catholicism from a happy catholic, Though you seem to be outplaced when invited to see what I do see in The Church. you seem more ready to disqualify any subject that may honor Catholicism, and though I haven´t yet say anything against "orthodoxy", I haven't given you any motive for you to be upset and yet that is what it seems to bother you.

I am not upset or bothered - in fact, I really like your beautiful pictures, and I admire your love for your Church. Yet, it looks like you and I have different ideas about what "discussion" is...

What Would you like tu discuss

Well, there are hundreds of topics. For example: why Filioque (esp. how could it be adopted by a local council in Toledo without approval of the Eastern jurisdictions, and in the face of the already existing consensus that there should be no additions to the Creed). Or what exactly do the words "vicar of Christ" or "Pontificus Maximus" mean.
Love never fails.

Offline Papist

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #104 on: May 11, 2010, 10:03:52 AM »
Can't you just be happy and clap your hands as I suggested earlier?

I think we have a thread on church architecture where your pics would be a good addition.

Try to be tolerant

So what are we discussing? The name of this section is "Orthodox-Catholic Discussion.  ::)

I have brought a subject, Catholicism from a happy catholic, Though you seem to be outplaced when invited to see what I do see in The Church. you seem more ready to disqualify any subject that may honor Catholicism, and though I haven´t yet say anything against "orthodoxy", I haven't given you any motive for you to be upset and yet that is what it seems to bother you.

I am not upset or bothered - in fact, I really like your beautiful pictures, and I admire your love for your Church. Yet, it looks like you and I have different ideas about what "discussion" is...

What Would you like tu discuss
Well, for one thing, your promotion of the Vatican instead of the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.
Oh, you poor lost soul.  ;D
"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Offline Papist

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #105 on: May 11, 2010, 10:04:41 AM »
Can't you just be happy and clap your hands as I suggested earlier?

I think we have a thread on church architecture where your pics would be a good addition.

Try to be tolerant

So what are we discussing? The name of this section is "Orthodox-Catholic Discussion.  ::)

I have brought a subject, Catholicism from a happy catholic, Though you seem to be outplaced when invited to see what I do see in The Church. you seem more ready to disqualify any subject that may honor Catholicism, and though I haven´t yet say anything against "orthodoxy", I haven't given you any motive for you to be upset and yet that is what it seems to bother you.

I am not upset or bothered - in fact, I really like your beautiful pictures, and I admire your love for your Church. Yet, it looks like you and I have different ideas about what "discussion" is...

What Would you like tu discuss

Well, there are hundreds of topics. For example: why Filioque (esp. how could it be adopted by a local council in Toledo without approval of the Eastern jurisdictions, and in the face of the already existing consensus that there should be no additions to the Creed). Or what exactly do the words "vicar of Christ" or "Pontificus Maximus" mean.
Approval of the Eastern jurisdictions? Who needs it?! LOL. The Easts spent so much time in heresy during the time of the Fathers that the approval of the East is not necessarily a badge of honor.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2010, 10:05:58 AM by Papist »
"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #106 on: May 11, 2010, 10:12:05 AM »
Can't you just be happy and clap your hands as I suggested earlier?

I think we have a thread on church architecture where your pics would be a good addition.

Try to be tolerant

So what are we discussing? The name of this section is "Orthodox-Catholic Discussion.  ::)

I have brought a subject, Catholicism from a happy catholic, Though you seem to be outplaced when invited to see what I do see in The Church. you seem more ready to disqualify any subject that may honor Catholicism, and though I haven´t yet say anything against "orthodoxy", I haven't given you any motive for you to be upset and yet that is what it seems to bother you.

I am not upset or bothered - in fact, I really like your beautiful pictures, and I admire your love for your Church. Yet, it looks like you and I have different ideas about what "discussion" is...

What Would you like tu discuss
Well, for one thing, your promotion of the Vatican instead of the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

Well The Vatican is a small portion of land outside the classical Rome, Ther in that Hill The Prince of The Apostoles, St Peter, Was crucified and buried. There in Rome he left his Cathedra, and since then Rome became the center of Christianity. After the conversion of Constantine, the Imperial Capital was sent out from Rome to constantinople, Bizantium, But the Succesor of Peter remained in Rome, where St Peter and St Paul are. The political capital moved while the religious didn't. The greek catholics felt they had more rights to be the religios center of Christianity, inspired by the political power, more than by Apostolical, Eclesiologial and hystorical  reasons, the feeling of self pride move them away from Rome.

Catholicism never moved away from Rome, Thus Catholicism is The One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.
Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #107 on: May 11, 2010, 10:19:32 AM »
To Be catholic is to Pray Together

Huh? People holding hands during mass? To be Catholic is to participate in liturgical abuses?


Perhaps you can show to us where in the Bible can We read that Our Lord Jesus prohibited this, or the apostles.

THNX
« Last Edit: May 11, 2010, 10:19:49 AM by Alonso_castillo »
Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #108 on: May 11, 2010, 10:31:46 AM »
Can't you just be happy and clap your hands as I suggested earlier?

I think we have a thread on church architecture where your pics would be a good addition.

Try to be tolerant

So what are we discussing? The name of this section is "Orthodox-Catholic Discussion.  ::)

I have brought a subject, Catholicism from a happy catholic, Though you seem to be outplaced when invited to see what I do see in The Church. you seem more ready to disqualify any subject that may honor Catholicism, and though I haven´t yet say anything against "orthodoxy", I haven't given you any motive for you to be upset and yet that is what it seems to bother you.

I am not upset or bothered - in fact, I really like your beautiful pictures, and I admire your love for your Church. Yet, it looks like you and I have different ideas about what "discussion" is...

What Would you like tu discuss

Well, there are hundreds of topics. For example: why Filioque (esp. how could it be adopted by a local council in Toledo without approval of the Eastern jurisdictions, and in the face of the already existing consensus that there should be no additions to the Creed). Or what exactly do the words "vicar of Christ" or "Pontificus Maximus" mean.
Approval of the Eastern jurisdictions? Who needs it?! LOL. The Easts spent so much time in heresy during the time of the Fathers that the approval of the East is not necessarily a badge of honor.
The Fathers, for instance, killed off Arianism in the East in 381.  It lived on until the Emperor from the East came in and killed it off except for Spain, where its last gasp breathed the filioque onto the Western Church.  The "Western" lung has been suffered respitory failure ever since.

It is not that the East was in heresy all that time, merely that the Fathers quashed it there.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Papist

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #109 on: May 11, 2010, 10:40:05 AM »
Can't you just be happy and clap your hands as I suggested earlier?

I think we have a thread on church architecture where your pics would be a good addition.

Try to be tolerant

So what are we discussing? The name of this section is "Orthodox-Catholic Discussion.  ::)

I have brought a subject, Catholicism from a happy catholic, Though you seem to be outplaced when invited to see what I do see in The Church. you seem more ready to disqualify any subject that may honor Catholicism, and though I haven´t yet say anything against "orthodoxy", I haven't given you any motive for you to be upset and yet that is what it seems to bother you.

I am not upset or bothered - in fact, I really like your beautiful pictures, and I admire your love for your Church. Yet, it looks like you and I have different ideas about what "discussion" is...

What Would you like tu discuss

Well, there are hundreds of topics. For example: why Filioque (esp. how could it be adopted by a local council in Toledo without approval of the Eastern jurisdictions, and in the face of the already existing consensus that there should be no additions to the Creed). Or what exactly do the words "vicar of Christ" or "Pontificus Maximus" mean.
Approval of the Eastern jurisdictions? Who needs it?! LOL. The Easts spent so much time in heresy during the time of the Fathers that the approval of the East is not necessarily a badge of honor.
The Fathers, for instance, killed off Arianism in the East in 381.  It lived on until the Emperor from the East came in and killed it off except for Spain, where its last gasp breathed the filioque onto the Western Church.  The "Western" lung has been suffered respitory failure ever since.

It is not that the East was in heresy all that time, merely that the Fathers quashed it there.
Bologna. Remember the Arian Crisis when almost everyone became an Arian? Who remained orthodox? Oh yeah, the Pope. Arianism, Nestorianism, monophsytism, monotheletism, etc etc etc.
"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #110 on: May 11, 2010, 10:49:15 AM »
My Church is better than your church.  :P

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #111 on: May 11, 2010, 10:49:37 AM »
Can't you just be happy and clap your hands as I suggested earlier?

I think we have a thread on church architecture where your pics would be a good addition.

Try to be tolerant

So what are we discussing? The name of this section is "Orthodox-Catholic Discussion.  ::)

I have brought a subject, Catholicism from a happy catholic, Though you seem to be outplaced when invited to see what I do see in The Church. you seem more ready to disqualify any subject that may honor Catholicism, and though I haven´t yet say anything against "orthodoxy", I haven't given you any motive for you to be upset and yet that is what it seems to bother you.

I am not upset or bothered - in fact, I really like your beautiful pictures, and I admire your love for your Church. Yet, it looks like you and I have different ideas about what "discussion" is...

What Would you like tu discuss
Well, for one thing, your promotion of the Vatican instead of the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

Well The Vatican is a small portion of land outside the classical Rome, Ther in that Hill The Prince of The Apostoles, St Peter, Was crucified and buried. There in Rome he left his Cathedra, and since then Rome became the center of Christianity.

Really? How many Ecumenical Councils were held there before the Frankish emperor imposed the filioque there in 1017?


Quote
After the conversion of Constantine, the Imperial Capital was sent out from Rome to constantinople,

It was gone before that.  The fout capitals of the tetrachs: Nicomedia, Sirmium, Milan, Trier, didn't include Rome.

Quote
Bizantium, But the Succesor of Peter remained in Rome,

as his predecessor did in Antioch.

Quote
where St Peter and St Paul are. The political capital moved while the religious didn't.

Yes, the office of Pontifex Maximus, the supreme head of the Roman state religion did stay in Rome, and did so until it moved to Avignon.

Quote
The greek catholics felt they had more rights to be the religios center of Christianity, inspired by the political power, more than by Apostolical, Eclesiologial and hystorical  reasons, the feeling of self pride move them away from Rome.

The Fathers of the Ecumenical Councils evidently were similarly inspired.  The canons refering to Rome's authority refer only to the presence of the emperor and the senate.  No reference to St. Peter or the Office of the Keys, etc.


Quote
Catholicism never moved away from Rome,

Avignon.

Quote
Thus Catholicism is The One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

Matthew 15:14.  The Successor of St. Peter at Rome has to keep the Faith of St. Peter, as the Successor of St. Peter at Antioch has.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
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If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
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                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #112 on: May 11, 2010, 10:54:43 AM »
Can't you just be happy and clap your hands as I suggested earlier?

I think we have a thread on church architecture where your pics would be a good addition.

Try to be tolerant

So what are we discussing? The name of this section is "Orthodox-Catholic Discussion.  ::)

I have brought a subject, Catholicism from a happy catholic, Though you seem to be outplaced when invited to see what I do see in The Church. you seem more ready to disqualify any subject that may honor Catholicism, and though I haven´t yet say anything against "orthodoxy", I haven't given you any motive for you to be upset and yet that is what it seems to bother you.

I am not upset or bothered - in fact, I really like your beautiful pictures, and I admire your love for your Church. Yet, it looks like you and I have different ideas about what "discussion" is...

What Would you like tu discuss

Well, there are hundreds of topics. For example: why Filioque (esp. how could it be adopted by a local council in Toledo without approval of the Eastern jurisdictions, and in the face of the already existing consensus that there should be no additions to the Creed). Or what exactly do the words "vicar of Christ" or "Pontificus Maximus" mean.
Approval of the Eastern jurisdictions? Who needs it?! LOL. The Easts spent so much time in heresy during the time of the Fathers that the approval of the East is not necessarily a badge of honor.
The Fathers, for instance, killed off Arianism in the East in 381.  It lived on until the Emperor from the East came in and killed it off except for Spain, where its last gasp breathed the filioque onto the Western Church.  The "Western" lung has been suffered respitory failure ever since.

It is not that the East was in heresy all that time, merely that the Fathers quashed it there.
Bologna.

Isn't that in the West?

Quote
Remember the Arian Crisis when almost everyone became an Arian? Who remained orthodox? Oh yeah, the Pope.

Yes, Pope Athanasius of Alexandria remained Orthodox.

Quote
Arianism, Nestorianism,

Vigilius

Quote
monophsytism, monotheletism,

Honorius

Quote
etc etc etc.

Filioque, Ultramontanism, substitutionary atonement, purgatory, indulgences, merits of saints, IC, etc. etc. etc. indeed.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #113 on: May 11, 2010, 11:48:47 AM »

Really? How many Ecumenical Councils were held there before the Frankish emperor imposed the filioque there in 1017?

Where were surging the heresies condemned by first councils, East or West?,  Where were those bishops who suffered those heresies, East or West?, Who could found financially those councils, The Emperor in Constantinople or the Pope in Rome?, Who where nearer to the red spots of heresies Constantinople or Rome?, What Was Cheaper, to held the council in Rome far from red spots of Heresy or in Constantinople in the edge of those spots?

Quote
It was gone before that.  The fout capitals of the tetrachs: Nicomedia, Sirmium, Milan, Trier, didn't include Rome.

The Battle which marked the beggining of the Christian Empire was held Outside Rome, near the Tiber. ¿Why?

Quote
as his predecessor did in Antioch.

The succesor of Saint Peter, after Saint Peter died, was the Roman Bishop, Because in Antioch there was already a Bishop subjected to Peter in Rome. thus the Petrine See was not Antioch because it was already subjected to The Rome of Peter. Quite logical.

Quote
Yes, the office of Pontifex Maximus, the supreme head of the Roman state religion did stay in Rome, and did so until it moved to Avignon

Avignon had not felt into hands of schism. Security reasons moved the See for a while, but not to Constantinople.

Quote
The Fathers of the Ecumenical Councils evidently were similarly inspired.  The canons refering to Rome's authority refer only to the presence of the emperor and the senate.  No reference to St. Peter or the Office of the Keys, etc.

Tell it to St John Chrysostom:

1) And why, then, passing by the others, does He converse with Peter on these things? (John 21:15). He was the chosen one of the Apostles, and the mouth of the disciples, and the leader of the choir. On this account, Paul also went up on a time to see him rather than the others (Galatians 1:18). And withal, to show him that he must thenceforward have confidence, as the denial was done away with, He puts into his hands the presidency over the brethren. And He brings not forward the denial, nor reproches him with what had past, but says, 'If you love me, preside over the brethren ...and the third time He gives him the same injunction, showing what a price He sets the presidency over His own sheep. And if one should say, 'How then did James receive the throne of Jerusalem?,' this I would answer that He appointed this man (Peter) teacher, not of that throne, but of the whole world. (Chrysostom, In Joan. Hom. 1xxxviii. n. 1, tom. viii)

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Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
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Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #114 on: May 11, 2010, 11:58:04 AM »
My Church is better than your church.  :P

Nice
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #115 on: May 11, 2010, 12:47:57 PM »

Really? How many Ecumenical Councils were held there before the Frankish emperor imposed the filioque there in 1017?

Where were surging the heresies condemned by first councils, East or West?,

East and West.

Quote
  Where were those bishops who suffered those heresies, East or West?,

Mostly in the East, later in the West.

Quote
Who could found financially those councils, The Emperor in Constantinople or the Pope in Rome?,

What did Rome do with the Donation of Constantine?

Quote
Who where nearer to the red spots of heresies Constantinople or Rome?,

Constantinople traveled all the way to North Africa to stamp out Arianism, and started in on Spain.


Quote
What Was Cheaper, to held the council in Rome far from red spots of Heresy or in Constantinople in the edge of those spots?

Toledo is closer to Rome.

It was gone before that.  The fout capitals of the tetrachs: Nicomedia, Sirmium, Milan, Trier, didn't include Rome.

The Battle which marked the beggining of the Christian Empire was held Outside Rome, near the Tiber. ¿Why?

Uh, because that's where the armies met?  Why is is called the "Edict of Milan?" Why was Theodosios' edict making the Empire officially Christian was issued as the "Edict of Thessalonica," and addressed to Constantinople, to follow the faith of Bishop Damsus of Rome AND Bishop Peter (actually by that time, Pope) of Alexandria?  And then he convened the Ecumenical in Constantinople, opened by Patriarch St. Meletius of Antioch (at the time under condemnation by Rome) and other Fathers not in communion with Rome at the time, where they wrote the Creed of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.  The original: accept no imitation.

as his predecessor did in Antioch.

The succesor of Saint Peter, after Saint Peter died, was the Roman Bishop, Because in Antioch there was already a Bishop subjected to Peter in Rome. thus the Petrine See was not Antioch because it was already subjected to The Rome of Peter. Quite logical.

Quite imaginary and a-historical.

St. Peter's Successor at Antioch (btw, your Vatican celebrates the "Chair of St. Peter" on what was the "Chair of St. Peter at Antioch"), St. Ignatius writes much about the episcopacy, but says nothing about any subjegation to Rome.  In fact, in his letter to Rome, he doesn't mentions bishops at all.  He also contains the first known use of Catholic:
Quote
See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.
No mention of any supreme pontiff.


In the Meletian schism, Rome backed the wrong horse against St. Meletius.  All the Vaticans 4 patriarchs of Antioch claim their orders through St. Meletius, who, despite Rome's condemnation of him, opened the Ecumenical Council of Constantinople, where the Fathers wrote the universal Creed of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

Yes, the office of Pontifex Maximus, the supreme head of the Roman state religion did stay in Rome, and did so until it moved to Avignon

Avignon had not felt into hands of schism. Security reasons moved the See for a while, but not to Constantinople.

There was, and is, already a patriarch in Constantinople. She didn't need a nother.

The Fathers of the Ecumenical Councils evidently were similarly inspired.  The canons refering to Rome's authority refer only to the presence of the emperor and the senate.  No reference to St. Peter or the Office of the Keys, etc.

Tell it to St John Chrysostom:

The same St. John who wasn't in communion with Rome most of his life, and received ordination from St. Meletius, the Patriarch of Antioch that Rome condemned?
Somewhere here we have a whole thread on that.

Quote
1) And why, then, passing by the others, does He converse with Peter on these things? (John 21:15). He was the chosen one of the Apostles, and the mouth of the disciples, and the leader of the choir. On this account, Paul also went up on a time to see him rather than the others (Galatians 1:18). And withal, to show him that he must thenceforward have confidence, as the denial was done away with, He puts into his hands the presidency over the brethren. And He brings not forward the denial, nor reproches him with what had past, but says, 'If you love me, preside over the brethren ...and the third time He gives him the same injunction, showing what a price He sets the presidency over His own sheep. And if one should say, 'How then did James receive the throne of Jerusalem?,' this I would answer that He appointed this man (Peter) teacher, not of that throne, but of the whole world. (Chrysostom, In Joan. Hom. 1xxxviii. n. 1, tom. viii)

I think St. John already knew:
Ok folks, here it is:  the clearest quote from a Father that implies Rome has all the power of the other bishops, in itself:

"[“Men and brethren,” etc.] Here is forethought for providing a teacher; here was the first who ordained a teacher. He [Peter] did not say, 'We are sufficient.' So far was he beyond all vain-glory, and he looked to one thing alone. And yet he had the same power to ordain as they all collectively."

St. Chrysostom.  Homily 3 on Acts:
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/210103.htm

Chrysostom here describes how although Peter had all the power, he was polite and wise enough to work through a council.
Please no replies stating Peter's unique authority stopped after his death.  As if Christ thought only the first generation apostles would need a visible head with unique authority. 

You mean Christ?


Quote
There are too many quotes by Fathers that link the Bishop of Rome and his authority (whatever exactly that might be) with Peter.  (Met. Kallistos (Ware)'s "The Orthodox Church" and Stephen Ray's "Upon this Rock" at least makes this much evident).

K



Then I guess your first question should be why St. John spurned the authority of that all-powerful pontiff and accepted ordination from someone (St. Meletius) that the Pope of Rome said was a schismatic and heretic, and supported a rival patriarch of Antioch.

You (or your quote factory) ought to read these things better:
St. Chrysostom.  Homily 3 on Acts:
Quote
Again, consider the moderation of James. He it was who received the Bishopric of Jerusalem, and here he says nothing. Mark also the great moderation of the other Apostles, how they concede the throne to him, and no longer dispute with each other. For that Church was as it were in heaven: having nothing to do with this world’s affairs: and resplendent not with wails, no, nor with numbers, but with the zeal of them that formed the assembly.
Homily 18 on Acts
Quote
Why had not these received the Holy Ghost, when baptized? Either because Philip kept this honor for the Apostles; or, because he had not this gift (to impart); or, he was one of the Seven: which is rather to be said. Whence, I take it, this Philip was one of the Apostles...But observe; those went not forth: it was Providentially ordered that these should go forth and those be lacking, because of the Holy Ghost: for they had received power to work miracles, but not also to impart the Spirit to others: this was the prerogative of the Apostles. And observe (how they sent) the chief ones: not any others, but Peter [and John]
"They sent."  Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him. John 13:16.
Homily 23
Quote
This (James) was bishop, as they say, and therefore he speaks last, and herein is fulfilled that saying, “In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.” (Deut. xvii. 6; Matt. xviii. 16.) But observe the discretion shown by him also, in making his argument good from the prophets, both new and old.  For he had no acts of his own to declare, as Peter had and Paul. And indeed it is wisely ordered that this (the active) part is assigned to those, as not intended to be locally fixed in Jerusalem, whereas (James) here, who performs the part of teacher, is no way responsible for what has been done, while however he is not divided from them in opinion.  (b) “Men and brethren,” he says, “hearken unto me.” Great is the moderation of the man. His also is a more complete oration, as indeed it puts the completion to the matter under discussion. (a) “Symeon,” he says, “declared:” (namely,) in Luke, in that he prophesied, “Which Thou hast prepared before the face of all nations, a light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of Thy people Israel....Then, what makes his word authoritative—“Saith the Lord, which doeth all these things:” and, for that this is no new thing, but all was planned from the beginning, “Known unto God are all His works from everlasting." And then again his authority (καὶ τὸ ἀξίωμα πάλιν) (as Bishop): “Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: but that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollution of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.”....Then the decree is made in common. “Then pleased it the Apostles and elders, together with the whole Church, to choose men of their own company”—do you observe they do not merely enact these matters, and nothing more?—“and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas: namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren: and they wrote letters by them after this manner.” (v. 22.) And observe, the more to authenticate the decree, they send men of their own, that there may be no room for regarding Paul and his company with suspicion. “The Apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia.” ...(Recapitulation.) “Then all the multitude kept silence,” etc. (v. 12.) There was no arrogance in the Church. After Peter Paul speaks, and none silences him: James waits patiently, not starts up.  (for the next word). Great the orderliness (of the proceedings). No word speaks John here, no word the other Apostles, but held their peace, for James was invested with the chief rule, and think it no hardship. So clean was their soul from love of glory. “And after that they had held their peace, James answered,” etc. (v. 13.) (b) Peter indeed spoke more strongly, but James here more mildly: for thus it behooves one in high authority, to leave what is unpleasant for others to say, while he himself appears in the milder part.
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf111.vi.xxxiii.html



http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,25354.msg397130/topicseen.html#msg397130
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,24876.msg395205/topicseen.html#msg395205
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Papist

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #116 on: May 11, 2010, 12:49:18 PM »
Can't you just be happy and clap your hands as I suggested earlier?

I think we have a thread on church architecture where your pics would be a good addition.

Try to be tolerant

So what are we discussing? The name of this section is "Orthodox-Catholic Discussion.  ::)

I have brought a subject, Catholicism from a happy catholic, Though you seem to be outplaced when invited to see what I do see in The Church. you seem more ready to disqualify any subject that may honor Catholicism, and though I haven´t yet say anything against "orthodoxy", I haven't given you any motive for you to be upset and yet that is what it seems to bother you.

I am not upset or bothered - in fact, I really like your beautiful pictures, and I admire your love for your Church. Yet, it looks like you and I have different ideas about what "discussion" is...

What Would you like tu discuss

Well, there are hundreds of topics. For example: why Filioque (esp. how could it be adopted by a local council in Toledo without approval of the Eastern jurisdictions, and in the face of the already existing consensus that there should be no additions to the Creed). Or what exactly do the words "vicar of Christ" or "Pontificus Maximus" mean.
Approval of the Eastern jurisdictions? Who needs it?! LOL. The Easts spent so much time in heresy during the time of the Fathers that the approval of the East is not necessarily a badge of honor.
The Fathers, for instance, killed off Arianism in the East in 381.  It lived on until the Emperor from the East came in and killed it off except for Spain, where its last gasp breathed the filioque onto the Western Church.  The "Western" lung has been suffered respitory failure ever since.

It is not that the East was in heresy all that time, merely that the Fathers quashed it there.
Bologna.

Isn't that in the West?

Quote
Remember the Arian Crisis when almost everyone became an Arian? Who remained orthodox? Oh yeah, the Pope.

Yes, Pope Athanasius of Alexandria remained Orthodox.

Quote
Arianism, Nestorianism,

Vigilius

Quote
monophsytism, monotheletism,

Honorius

Quote
etc etc etc.

Filioque, Ultramontanism, substitutionary atonement, purgatory, indulgences, merits of saints, IC, etc. etc. etc. indeed.
Oh Isa, you and your twisting of history. Its unfortante that the EO Church cannot offer an honest apologetic.
"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Offline ignatius

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #117 on: May 11, 2010, 12:54:02 PM »
My Church is better than your church.  :P

This is 99% of the debates here and on other forums. Ego, Pride, and Projections. O Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on us.
St Basil the Great (330-379 A.D.): “I think then that the one goal of all who are really and truly serving the Lord ought to be to bring back to union the churches who have at different times and in diverse manners divided from one another.”

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #118 on: May 11, 2010, 12:58:57 PM »
Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who can watch the watchmen?
"No one is paying attention to your post reports"
Why do posters that claim to have me blocked keep sending me pms and responding to my posts? That makes no sense.

Offline Mickey

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #119 on: May 11, 2010, 01:08:17 PM »


That's a scary lookin troll!  :laugh:
« Last Edit: May 11, 2010, 01:08:48 PM by Mickey »

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #120 on: May 11, 2010, 01:13:58 PM »
To Be Catholis is to be Happy
Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #121 on: May 11, 2010, 01:14:23 PM »
To Be Catholic is to be in adoration of God.



To Be Catholic is to be one sheep of the flock entrusted to Peter By Our Lord




To Be Catholic is to give all to the service of the Lord even the one self life.



To Be Catholic is to Honor His Mother



To Be Catholic is wanting to Be eternaly with Him in Heaven.



To Be Catholic is to listen the angels call and moving to God.

« Last Edit: May 11, 2010, 01:41:41 PM by Alonso_castillo »
Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #122 on: May 11, 2010, 01:18:10 PM »
We also have a beautiful Cathedral in Moscow.


Hmmmm.  Looks like the Mormon Temple in Salt Lake.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Papist

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #123 on: May 11, 2010, 01:19:45 PM »
We also have a beautiful Cathedral in Moscow.


Hmmmm.  Looks like the Mormon Temple in Salt Lake.


Guess the Mormons have good taste when it comes to architecture.
"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #124 on: May 11, 2010, 01:24:44 PM »
We also have a beautiful Cathedral in Moscow.


Hmmmm.  Looks like the Mormon Temple in Salt Lake.


Guess the Mormons have good taste when it comes to architecture.

LOL :D
Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam

Offline Mickey

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #125 on: May 11, 2010, 01:26:49 PM »
Did I just see a Roman Catholic mariachi band on the back of a pick-up truck?!?  :o

Offline Papist

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #126 on: May 11, 2010, 01:29:39 PM »
Did I just see a Roman Catholic mariachi band on the back of a pick-up truck?!?  :o
One can only hope.
"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #127 on: May 11, 2010, 01:35:55 PM »
Did I just see a Roman Catholic mariachi band on the back of a pick-up truck?!?  :o

Are your eyes bleeding?
Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam

Offline Mickey

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #128 on: May 11, 2010, 01:42:10 PM »

Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #129 on: May 11, 2010, 01:45:25 PM »
Alonso, you still haven't made it clear whether you expect people to agree with what you are saying here and have this as your own personal fan page or if you if you realize that these claims are disputable and you are fine discussing them.

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #130 on: May 11, 2010, 01:51:11 PM »
Are your eyes bleeding?

Huh?  ???

Its a musical group, not a mariachi, is more like Rock Band, but in Christian songs.
Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #131 on: May 11, 2010, 01:51:36 PM »
Alonso, you still haven't made it clear whether you expect people to agree with what you are saying here and have this as your own personal fan page or if you if you realize that these claims are disputable and you are fine discussing them.

¿What is your point?
Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #132 on: May 11, 2010, 01:53:35 PM »
My Church is better than your church.  :P
Yeah, does look rather puerile, doesn't it. :P
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline Papist

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"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Offline Alonso_castillo

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Re: Catholicism, from a happy catholic.
« Reply #134 on: May 11, 2010, 01:56:28 PM »
My Church is better than your church.  :P
Yeah, does look rather puerile, doesn't it. :P

Oh I am Sorry, my Old Tolkien's Ent Friend.
Nisi Dominus aedificaverit Domum
in vanum laboraverunt qui aedifcant eam
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem
frustra vigilant qui custodit Eam