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Author Topic: What is the Protestant/Evangelical Take on This?  (Read 6509 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: May 10, 2010, 10:18:24 AM »

I am just wondering what most Protestants think of this

http://www.chick.com/reading/comics/0114/0114_allinone.asp

I remember growing up Southern Baptist having very many ChickTracts. I also know that very many churches (Baptist at least) pretty much base their theology off of Jack Chick and his publications.

So since I only have one point of view, being from the Baptist side, what do other Protestants think? And for that matter, how does this make Orthodox and Catholics feel?

Just FYI I do not stand by anything this man says or publishes, as I am very happily on my way to chrismation in the Orthodox Church.
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« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2010, 01:31:45 PM »

I actually read that whole thing! My favorite part was the question at the end with the two boxes to check.

"Did you accept Jesus Christ as your own personal Lord and Saviour?

I was thinking it would be really funny to check "No" and then mail it in.
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« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2010, 01:33:28 PM »

I actually read that whole thing! My favorite part was the question at the end with the two boxes to check.

"Did you accept Jesus Christ as your own personal Lord and Saviour?

I was thinking it would be really funny to check "No" and then mail it in.

LOL I would love to see their response to that!
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« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2010, 01:53:41 PM »

When I was a Roman Catholic, Chick Tracts led to only one thing... laughter.  And possibly wanting to become a Jesuit.  laugh
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« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2010, 01:57:18 PM »

When I was a Roman Catholic, ChickTracts led to only one thing... laughter.  And possibly wanting to become a Jesuit.  laugh

When I was younger (like 12?) I gave one of my RC friends a tract about if Catholics are really saved, she got pretty mad until she realized I meant it only as a joke. She was tired of all her friends at the Christian school we attended trying to convert her... What can I say? I liked to antagonize people (past tense). Tongue
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« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2010, 12:45:56 PM »

What's up with the peace sign?  Tongue


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« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2010, 01:02:25 PM »

What's up with the peace sign?  Tongue




I think it's a lousy attempt to draw the IC XC hand formation that clergy use to bless the faithful.



Either that, or the priest is a hippie.  laugh

(It's kind of confusing as to whether it's supposed to be a Bishop or a Priest. The Vestments are consistent with that of a Bishop, but the miter is wrong.)
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« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2010, 01:25:34 PM »

don't care
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« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2010, 01:41:15 PM »

Here are my two all-time-favorites from Jack Chick:
 
     The Death Cookie:  http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0074/0074_01.asp


     Dark Dungeons (On Dungeons and Dragons) :  http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.ASP


Enjoy  Grin
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« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2010, 04:35:33 PM »

Here are my two all-time-favorites from Jack Chick:
 
     The Death Cookie:  http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0074/0074_01.asp


     Dark Dungeons (On Dungeons and Dragons) :  http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.ASP


Enjoy  Grin

LOL "IHS stands for Isis, Horus and Seb, the gods of Egypt."

I feel jipped on the D&D one, I had a level 12 Alchemist and I never learned any real life spells  Angry
[/sarcasm]
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« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2010, 04:51:23 PM »

Took ya'll long enough to reference Dark Dungeons.

For your various entertainment pleasure: http://www.rpglibrary.org/inspiration/darkdungeons/intro.html
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« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2010, 04:52:33 PM »

What's up with the peace sign?  Tongue




I think it's a lousy attempt to draw the IC XC hand formation that clergy use to bless the faithful.



Either that, or the priest is a hippie.  laugh

(It's kind of confusing as to whether it's supposed to be a Bishop or a Priest. The Vestments are consistent with that of a Bishop, but the miter is wrong.)


It actually might be closer to the Old Believer sign.
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« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2010, 04:53:07 PM »

Jack Chick is lulzy as usual.
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« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2010, 11:35:50 AM »

I am just wondering what most Protestants think of this

http://www.chick.com/reading/comics/0114/0114_allinone.asp

I remember growing up Southern Baptist having very many ChickTracts. I also know that very many churches (Baptist at least) pretty much base their theology off of Jack Chick and his publications.

So since I only have one point of view, being from the Baptist side, what do other Protestants think? And for that matter, how does this make Orthodox and Catholics feel?

Just FYI I do not stand by anything this man says or publishes, as I am very happily on my way to chrismation in the Orthodox Church.

Wow, that is some serious revisionist history!!!  People actually believe this stuff?  My favorite is that the Jesuits are responsible for World War II.  News to me... Seems like someone ought to inform the media.  I would think that would be major news!
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« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2010, 10:16:30 AM »

ChickTracts. ... what do other Protestants think?

As far as I recall, I've only come across these tracts once in over 45 years as an Evangelical believer. But I got a six-page letter this morning, asserting that:

Orthodoxy has created a life of its own - rituals, pomp, a glorification of its leaders... When Jesus said "Woe, woe, woe" x 6, 7, 8 times to the leaders of Religion, he would be saying exactly the same thing to the Orthodox. Palaces, pay, pensions, pomp. How many Orthodox still curse the Jews? Russians and Greeks do. The Orthodox Church has replaced the Jews (or tried to). The Church Fathers have glorified themselves and even (as in the case of the Pope) replaced Jesus too! His blood washes away our sins, not a priest's intonations... It was Orthodox Christians who did murders - in every century!! Many people, simple peasants, live in fear of their priests... threats of "non-burials" - excommunication?? I am always "roused to fury" over false priests, cults, and those who put themselves as His representatives. Like David said, "Don't I hate those that hate you?" Because these sham religions take people off the path and into their own "lair" to devour them... The false church is the "whore" of the Beast. Come out of her, says the Lord.

So whoever this fellow Chick is, it seems that his ideas, if not his scribblings, lurk in some corners of dear old Blighty as well as in the USA.

Thought you might be interested in the thoughts of the person who wrote that letter!
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« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2010, 11:06:38 AM »

As far as I recall, I've only come across these tracts once in over 45 years as an Evangelical believer. But I got a six-page letter this morning, asserting that:

Orthodoxy has created a life of its own - rituals, pomp, a glorification of its leaders... When Jesus said "Woe, woe, woe" x 6, 7, 8 times to the leaders of Religion, he would be saying exactly the same thing to the Orthodox. Palaces, pay, pensions, pomp.


This made me giggle -- if they had any idea how LITTLE our clergy made annually, they would realize that fancy vestments do not a rich man make.


Many people, simple peasants, live in fear of their priests...

It's true, we live in fear of Fr. George, Fr. Chris, Fr. Anastasios and their brute squad showing up on our door and beating us up.  Shocked When you see someone has been "muted" on this site, it's in the most literal of terms.  Wink  laugh  laugh  laugh
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« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2010, 01:03:09 PM »

The most fun in reading any Jack Chick tract or book is hunting down the citations.  The ones that reference something other than the Bible all lead back to books published by... Chick Publications.  Thank you, Jack Chick, for teaching me the value of reading the bibliography page and researching references.
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« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2010, 10:05:20 PM »

Indeed, that is a very useful thing to learn, Former Reformer.  Smiley

What do I, as an Anglican and History geek think of this?  That it is is full of errors, undocumented and unsupported assertions and Not True.  I could go in analysis mode and start pointing out things that are wrong, but there's so much and some of it is just Jack Chickian same-old-same-old.  I used to collect the booklets for information's sake (and yes, I'll admit for some entertainment value).  I have a first edition of iirc "Dark Dungeons" with the footnote that such evil is from the works of such authors as J.R.R. Tolkien and C. S. Lewis.  It has since been removed from later copies.  I've read that Chick put it in because someone told him that it was the case with the those authors, he didn't know them himself and he didn't check to see if it was true.

Just one error, btw, is the bit about changing the presidential inauguration to the west side of the Capitol for Reagan and how that's deeply significant for that president. There was nothing "mystical" or "Babylonian" or related to the RC about it.  I will have to post a supporting link later but it was decided to move to the west side *before* Reagan was even nominated and it was due to such mundane things as there's more room for spectators on the west side since the east side just goes to First Street and there are buildings on the other side such as the Supreme Court and the Jefferson Building of the Library of Congress. 

I wouldn't trust a Jack Chick comic's ideas without checking with *reliable* sources and books put out by that group don't fit that criteria.

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« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2010, 10:24:45 PM »

Way back then, I read (and unfortunately believed for the most part) a lot of Chick tracts and comic books.  These are popular with Pentecostals!

One writer JTC loves to quote is Alexander Hislop and his infamous Two Babylons.  If you want to see the truth butchered with the ax of the unsubstantiated and erroneous, this is a good place to look.
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« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2010, 10:41:59 PM »

Ah yes, Hislop.  I know about his and his book. The last I knew it's even up on line.  It is extremely dated, being put out in book form in 1858 and lacks serious history or scholarship.  It is a work of "conspiracy theory".

Ebor
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« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2010, 07:58:08 AM »

Despite the risible style of the tracts, we could continue to consider more seriously what he says and why.

I suspect these tracts are popular at the moment (if indeed they are - and I have no reason to doubt you all) partly because of the current fascination with conspiracy theories of church history, as popularised especially by such writers as Dan Brown ("The da Vinci Code") and a number of others. They appeal to the desire to know things which are being carefully and sinisterly kept secret through the ill-will of powerful people. Linked with all this is the current turning to the late rejected 'gospels' rather than the divinely given canonical ones.

I have not taken the trouble - for the interest is not there - to check the sources and the 'facts' Chick sets before us, but I strongly suspect it is all a mixture of truth and falsehood. There is little to object to in his final conclusion; indeed, a good deal of truth. The truth in the mixture makes the falsehood appealing and credible.

Also, it seems that we could say without undue arrogance that he is not writing for a carefully thinking, seeking public. Let us (for the sake solely of argument) assume for a brief moment that all he writes is true: even then, his would not be the usual or proper route for a sincere seeker after God and truth to come to a knowledge of the truth. His style is directed at the gullible, at those (I suspect) who already wish to be led in that direction, rather than at those who wish to have facts and cogent arguments set before them so that they can prayerfully and humbly reach their own conclusions.
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« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2010, 08:12:48 AM »

Also, it seems that we could say without undue arrogance that he is not writing for a carefully thinking, seeking public. Let us (for the sake solely of argument) assume for a brief moment that all he writes is true: even then, his would not be the usual or proper route for a sincere seeker after God and truth to come to a knowledge of the truth. His style is directed at the gullible, at those (I suspect) who already wish to be led in that direction, rather than at those who wish to have facts and cogent arguments set before them so that they can prayerfully and humbly reach their own conclusions.

I would agree with this. Any credible preacher that I have ever met never tried to win the "hearts and minds" of his audience by spending time putting down the teachings of other religious organizations, but rather focused on the love of Christ, and the life we have through Him.

Having attended several Billy Graham crusades as a kid, I never recall Mr. Graham spending time bashing the Catholic Church or anyone else for that matter. Instead, he spoke of a loving God who wanted to save mankind.

Although I may not agree with all of his theology, I have a much greater admiration and respect for his methods of preaching and teaching than that of Jack Chick.

(As a side note, the only time I have ever encountered Jack Chick tracks have been on online forums such as this.)
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« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2010, 08:15:17 AM »

(As a side note, the only time I have ever encountered Jack Chick tracks have been on online forums such as this.)

You've never had the pleasure of finding a Chick tract on the back of a commode in a public rest room? Maybe it's a guy thing. Grin
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« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2010, 01:40:21 PM »

(As a side note, the only time I have ever encountered Jack Chick tracks have been on online forums such as this.)

You've never had the pleasure of finding a Chick tract on the back of a commode in a public rest room? Maybe it's a guy thing. Grin
I have seen them a couple times. I usually throw them away.
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« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2010, 03:25:18 PM »

Heh. I have a similar story. My boyfriend and I were walking through a laundromat that sort of serves as a connection between a parking lot and a main street. We saw a few copies of Awake strewn around. To my amusement he nonchalantly picked them up and threw them in the trash.
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« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2010, 05:37:26 PM »

One of my favorite Chick tracts is "The Death Cookie"

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0074/0074_01.asp

It's so ridiculous that you are not sure whether to laugh or cry.
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« Reply #26 on: May 14, 2010, 05:41:42 PM »

I am just wondering what most Protestants think of this

http://www.chick.com/reading/comics/0114/0114_allinone.asp

I remember growing up Southern Baptist having very many ChickTracts. I also know that very many churches (Baptist at least) pretty much base their theology off of Jack Chick and his publications.

So since I only have one point of view, being from the Baptist side, what do other Protestants think? And for that matter, how does this make Orthodox and Catholics feel?

Just FYI I do not stand by anything this man says or publishes, as I am very happily on my way to chrismation in the Orthodox Church.

Wow, that is some serious revisionist history!!!  People actually believe this stuff?  My favorite is that the Jesuits are responsible for World War II.  News to me... Seems like someone ought to inform the media.  I would think that would be major news!

Chick tracts pretty much cater to people who hate anything Catholic.  I'm sure they'd hate anything Orthodox if most of them knew anything about it too--you know, we're just Catholics without the Pope (either that or we are Orthodox Jews).
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« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2010, 05:43:52 PM »

Also, it seems that we could say without undue arrogance that he is not writing for a carefully thinking, seeking public. Let us (for the sake solely of argument) assume for a brief moment that all he writes is true: even then, his would not be the usual or proper route for a sincere seeker after God and truth to come to a knowledge of the truth. His style is directed at the gullible, at those (I suspect) who already wish to be led in that direction, rather than at those who wish to have facts and cogent arguments set before them so that they can prayerfully and humbly reach their own conclusions.

I would agree with this. Any credible preacher that I have ever met never tried to win the "hearts and minds" of his audience by spending time putting down the teachings of other religious organizations, but rather focused on the love of Christ, and the life we have through Him.

Having attended several Billy Graham crusades as a kid, I never recall Mr. Graham spending time bashing the Catholic Church or anyone else for that matter. Instead, he spoke of a loving God who wanted to save mankind.

Although I may not agree with all of his theology, I have a much greater admiration and respect for his methods of preaching and teaching than that of Jack Chick.

(As a side note, the only time I have ever encountered Jack Chick tracks have been on online forums such as this.)

That was my experience too.  With my father being in the military, I attended a lot of Baptist churches, and we never had those in our church, not even the Fundamentalist ones I attended (though I have to say that they seemed to have very similar views on church history).
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« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2010, 06:53:54 PM »

I love this panel.

"The Illuminati controlling the economy—that's reasonable. But the Vatican too?! You go too far!!"

Cheesy
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« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2010, 06:58:21 PM »

Chick tracts are a joke.. They tell no truth and lead anyone who reads them away from the truth. If my first glimpse of Christianity was Chick tracts, I would run! laugh

On a similar subject has anyone heard of one-evil? Google it and go to site if you want a laugh (since I don't think I can post links).
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« Reply #30 on: May 14, 2010, 08:17:34 PM »

One of my favorite Chick tracts is "The Death Cookie"

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0074/0074_01.asp

It's so ridiculous that you are not sure whether to laugh or cry.
My all time favorite.
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« Reply #31 on: May 14, 2010, 08:27:32 PM »

Comic books are the perfect medium for this sort of silliness. Virtually every fact is expressed in such a way that you think he knows better but is deliberately changing the facts to be more sensational.
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« Reply #32 on: May 21, 2010, 02:59:49 AM »

 I laughed so hard when I read my first* Jack Chick tract, until I got to the end and realised that it was not a parody. It took a while for me to accept that people can be this ignorant.

Even though I jump at every opportunity to read one of the tracts (still find them funny) I get offended when people hand them to me on the street. Can you believe that the tracts are so popular that they are translated into Swedish and Finnish?

Reading tip: try to find the one about Islam, you are in for some earth shattering truths!  Cheesy

*) I don't remember if it was the Dark Dungeons one or one of the multitudes bashing Catholicism
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« Reply #33 on: May 25, 2010, 06:57:32 AM »

I keep planning to carry some Orthodox Christian booklets around (Gillquist's "Finishing the Race" or "Entering God's Kingdom" would be good) and hand them to people who shove Chick's The Death Cookie" in my hand.
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« Reply #34 on: May 25, 2010, 06:59:40 AM »


Reading tip: try to find the one about Islam, you are in for some earth shattering truths!  Cheesy

*) I don't remember if it was the Dark Dungeons one or one of the multitudes bashing Catholicism


I assume you are speaking of when he says that Mohammed was a so-called 'Vatican Agent'?

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« Reply #35 on: May 25, 2010, 07:03:04 AM »

The sad thing about this whole genre of propaganda (whether the target be Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Muslims, blacks, whites, Asians, gays, etc. is that the person who reads and believes the false witness usually has to have an ear for it in the first place and want vindication for their overt or subconscious hate.
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« Reply #36 on: May 25, 2010, 05:08:44 PM »

ChickTracts. ... what do other Protestants think?

As far as I recall, I've only come across these tracts once in over 45 years as an Evangelical believer. But I got a six-page letter this morning, asserting that:

Orthodoxy has created a life of its own - rituals, pomp, a glorification of its leaders... When Jesus said "Woe, woe, woe" x 6, 7, 8 times to the leaders of Religion, he would be saying exactly the same thing to the Orthodox. Palaces, pay, pensions, pomp. How many Orthodox still curse the Jews? Russians and Greeks do. The Orthodox Church has replaced the Jews (or tried to). The Church Fathers have glorified themselves and even (as in the case of the Pope) replaced Jesus too! His blood washes away our sins, not a priest's intonations... It was Orthodox Christians who did murders - in every century!! Many people, simple peasants, live in fear of their priests... threats of "non-burials" - excommunication?? I am always "roused to fury" over false priests, cults, and those who put themselves as His representatives. Like David said, "Don't I hate those that hate you?" Because these sham religions take people off the path and into their own "lair" to devour them... The false church is the "whore" of the Beast. Come out of her, says the Lord.

So whoever this fellow Chick is, it seems that his ideas, if not his scribblings, lurk in some corners of dear old Blighty as well as in the USA.

Thought you might be interested in the thoughts of the person who wrote that letter!
 Smiley

Yes. I would like to know who accuses, especially of murder. BTW it is true that Russians are notoriously antisemitic, Orthodox Christianity is not. Some ex-Jews have become Orthodox Christian priests including my own pastor and author James Bernstein. Likewise Orthodox Christians in Greece fought hard to protect their Jewish neighbors from the Nazis
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« Reply #37 on: May 26, 2010, 12:50:44 PM »

I use to read them alot back when I was little, and over the years I have met people that either read a few or had box loads of them. I have a word of faith protestant friend who is really into Jack Chick. I grew out of it as I got older, but there are alot of people who are really into these tracts.....both young and old. And so, people are needed to spend portions of their free time to help others understand why these tracts are wrong in certain areas. But all that takes time.

Check out this Roman Catholic lay apologist debunking a Jack Chick tract:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHTHS_fpo_A&feature=player_embedded(Are Roman Catholics Christians? 1 of 17)

I think Orthodox Christians should do the samething....what this guy is doing is good and helpful to that Roman Catholic parish.




Christ is in our midst!
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« Reply #38 on: November 21, 2010, 09:22:54 AM »

I use to read them alot back when I was little, and over the years I have met people that either read a few or had box loads of them. I have a word of faith protestant friend who is really into Jack Chick. I grew out of it as I got older, but there are alot of people who are really into these tracts.....both young and old. And so, people are needed to spend portions of their free time to help others understand why these tracts are wrong in certain areas. But all that takes time.

Check out this Roman Catholic lay apologist debunking a Jack Chick tract:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHTHS_fpo_A&feature=player_embedded(Are Roman Catholics Christians? 1 of 17)

I think Orthodox Christians should do the samething....what this guy is doing is good and helpful to that Roman Catholic parish.




Christ is in our midst!

However I do not appreciate Rome's constant underhanded repeated attempts to get Orthodox Christians to embrace the RCC. I would much rather they make an overt demand that we change our teachings in order to rejoin, which is how I answer them.
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« Reply #39 on: November 21, 2010, 11:37:24 AM »

ChickTracts. ... what do other Protestants think?

As far as I recall, I've only come across these tracts once in over 45 years as an Evangelical believer. But I got a six-page letter this morning, asserting that:

Orthodoxy has created a life of its own - rituals, pomp, a glorification of its leaders... When Jesus said "Woe, woe, woe" x 6, 7, 8 times to the leaders of Religion, he would be saying exactly the same thing to the Orthodox. Palaces, pay, pensions, pomp. How many Orthodox still curse the Jews? Russians and Greeks do. The Orthodox Church has replaced the Jews (or tried to). The Church Fathers have glorified themselves and even (as in the case of the Pope) replaced Jesus too! His blood washes away our sins, not a priest's intonations... It was Orthodox Christians who did murders - in every century!! Many people, simple peasants, live in fear of their priests... threats of "non-burials" - excommunication?? I am always "roused to fury" over false priests, cults, and those who put themselves as His representatives. Like David said, "Don't I hate those that hate you?" Because these sham religions take people off the path and into their own "lair" to devour them... The false church is the "whore" of the Beast. Come out of her, says the Lord.

So whoever this fellow Chick is, it seems that his ideas, if not his scribblings, lurk in some corners of dear old Blighty as well as in the USA.

Thought you might be interested in the thoughts of the person who wrote that letter!
 Smiley

Yes. I would like to know who accuses, especially of murder. BTW it is true that Russians are notoriously antisemitic,
more so than the French?

Quote
Orthodox Christianity is not. Some ex-Jews have become Orthodox Christian priests including my own pastor and author James Bernstein. Likewise Orthodox Christians in Greece fought hard to protect their Jewish neighbors from the Nazis
and plenty in Ukraine.
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« Reply #40 on: November 21, 2010, 10:09:04 PM »

To the previous poster,
It was not my intention to  dwell too much on cmaprison, but I would say that Russia was more anti-Jewish than France or most Western European countries. But that may be like saying Southerners were more racist towards Blacks than other Americans. No one in question is terribly innocent. My point was more of a declaration about one group than its comparison to another.

Second point,
From what I remember many Ukrainians sided with the Nazis, in their genocide as well as fighting the Red Army.  
« Last Edit: November 21, 2010, 10:09:18 PM by sprtslvr1973 » Logged

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« Reply #41 on: November 21, 2010, 10:47:57 PM »

Here are my two all-time-favorites from Jack Chick:
 
     The Death Cookie:   http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0074/0074_01.asp


     Dark Dungeons (On Dungeons and Dragons) :  http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.ASP


Enjoy  Grin


Death cookie (where he call Christ an idol) is most evil blasphemous Chick tract ever created. Here's two other good ones just for you Papist:

http://www.angelfire.com/on/3angels/nameinvatican.html
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0082/0082_01.asp

the name of every protestant in the world is hidden in the giant Vatican "big computer"!!!  Shocked

former reformer said:
Quote
The most fun in reading any Jack Chick tract or book is hunting down the citations.  The ones that reference something other than the Bible all lead back to books published by... Chick Publications.  Thank you, Jack Chick, for teaching me the value of reading the bibliography page and researching references.

YES! So true.

notice btw how he confuses orthodox, Roman catholic, even more traditional protestants such as presbyterians as "Roman catholic" in his tracts overall. So bad...
« Last Edit: November 21, 2010, 10:51:28 PM by Rafa999 » Logged

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« Reply #42 on: November 21, 2010, 10:49:51 PM »

To the previous poster,
It was not my intention to  dwell too much on cmaprison, but I would say that Russia was more anti-Jewish than France or most Western European countries.
I don't think an examination of history will bear that out.
Came across this in the Congressional record (there's also an interesting summary on religious regulation in Russia)

Quote
The rule in Russia has always been toleration, though limited by an arrangement which seems to a stranger very peculiar....This regulation seems rather the result, on the whole, of organized indifference than of zeal, its main purpose being undoubtedly to keep down any troublesome religious fervor.  The great body of the Russian peasantry, when left to themselves, seem to be remarkably free from any spirit of fanatical hostility toward religious systems differeing from their own...While some priests have undoubtedly done much to create a more zealous feeling, it was especially noted during the fierce persecution of the Jews early in the present reign [Nicholas II] that in several cases the orthodox village priests not only gave shelter to Israelites seeking to escape harm, but exerted themselves to put an end to the persecutions.  So, too, during the past few days the papers have contained a statement that a priest very widely known and highly esteemed, to whom miraculous powers are quite generally attributed-[St.] Father John, of Cronstadt [sic]-has sent some of the charity money, of which he is almoner, to certain Jewish orphanages under the control of Israelites.
http://books.google.ro/books?id=rHoe7PlyK_YC&pg=PA174&lpg=PA174&dq=John+Cronstadt+Orthodox+Isrealites&source=bl&ots=75uM_s3jxo&sig=wvf3KdN0UJ6ltdHwdyrwO9gWww4&hl=ro&ei=ynb5SviCN8yknQeAkY38DA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=&f=false
[/quote]

Quote
But that may be like saying Southerners were more racist towards Blacks than other Americans.
Not sure that's true. The largest KKK organiazation was the one which ran Indiana.

Quote
No one in question is terribly innocent. My point was more of a declaration about one group than its comparison to another.

Second point,
From what I remember many Ukrainians sided with the Nazis, in their genocide as well as fighting the Red Army.  
And France had many collaborators. Btw, the Poles under the Vatican aren't nearly as anti-Semitic as the proud west likes to portray them either. For one thing, Poland is the only country in Europe which never expelled the Jews from its realm.
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                           and both come out of your mouth
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« Reply #43 on: November 22, 2010, 07:18:42 AM »

To the previous poster,
It was not my intention to  dwell too much on cmaprison, but I would say that Russia was more anti-Jewish than France or most Western European countries.
I don't think an examination of history will bear that out.
Came across this in the Congressional record (there's also an interesting summary on religious regulation in Russia)

Quote
The rule in Russia has always been toleration, though limited by an arrangement which seems to a stranger very peculiar....This regulation seems rather the result, on the whole, of organized indifference than of zeal, its main purpose being undoubtedly to keep down any troublesome religious fervor.  The great body of the Russian peasantry, when left to themselves, seem to be remarkably free from any spirit of fanatical hostility toward religious systems differeing from their own...While some priests have undoubtedly done much to create a more zealous feeling, it was especially noted during the fierce persecution of the Jews early in the present reign [Nicholas II] that in several cases the orthodox village priests not only gave shelter to Israelites seeking to escape harm, but exerted themselves to put an end to the persecutions.  So, too, during the past few days the papers have contained a statement that a priest very widely known and highly esteemed, to whom miraculous powers are quite generally attributed-[St.] Father John, of Cronstadt [sic]-has sent some of the charity money, of which he is almoner, to certain Jewish orphanages under the control of Israelites.
http://books.google.ro/books?id=rHoe7PlyK_YC&pg=PA174&lpg=PA174&dq=John+Cronstadt+Orthodox+Isrealites&source=bl&ots=75uM_s3jxo&sig=wvf3KdN0UJ6ltdHwdyrwO9gWww4&hl=ro&ei=ynb5SviCN8yknQeAkY38DA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=&f=false

Quote
But that may be like saying Southerners were more racist towards Blacks than other Americans.
Not sure that's true. The largest KKK organiazation was the one which ran Indiana.

Quote
No one in question is terribly innocent. My point was more of a declaration about one group than its comparison to another.

Second point,
From what I remember many Ukrainians sided with the Nazis, in their genocide as well as fighting the Red Army.  
And France had many collaborators. Btw, the Poles under the Vatican aren't nearly as anti-Semitic as the proud west likes to portray them either. For one thing, Poland is the only country in Europe which never expelled the Jews from its realm.
[/quote]
Much of Western Europe did and not just in the occupied countries. The UK and the US both had visible Nazi parties at least before the war.
That said, Antisemitism had roots that ran deep in Eastern Europe well before the Second World War. The Tsarist pogroms into Jewish areas such as the Pale are an example. Meanwhile such actions had ceased for a long time in Western Europe.
Poland the 'only' country? I find that a little hard to believe. Please show me where the Netherlands, France, Italy, Greece, and Scandinavian countries all banned Jews. On the contrary I remember Reformation era Netherlands allowing Iberian Jews to settle there (prior to the Reformation the Netherlands had not existed for all intents and purposes).

Lastly, and not that it is ultimately that important to the subject at hand, the era of the KKK that you cited was more xenophobic than racist. Jews and Catholics were seen as a greater threat than blacks were.
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« Reply #44 on: November 22, 2010, 06:52:02 PM »

HIlerious insanity.
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