Topic: Fanaticism hinders a man's understanding... (Orthodox "fanaticism")

[stashko]

This video i watched ..I could of swore that , The  Serbian Orthodox Metropolitan Christopher was in it, or someone that resembled him in 6.53 minutes into the film ......
          
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEC6e8N0Wfk&feature=related
 

[Heorhij]

Fanaticism hinders a man's understanding but true faith gives it freedom. - Elder Macarius of Optina

I've noticed since I became interested in Orthodoxy 5 years ago, there seems to be three realms of people in the Orthodox Church. The very liberal, the moderates, and the very conservative.

The extreme liberals border on true ecumenism, and may seek to "reform" the Church or at least make it somewhat more "Western".

Whereas the extreme conservatives are as anti-ecumenism as you can get. They regard any relations with other "Churches" as ecumenism. They also tend to be extreme on other aspects such as canons, "traditions", etc...

I've always been taught that the middle road, the moderate, is where Orthodoxy truly lays. I'm always cautious of those who are too liberal and too conservative.

So why do we allow these two extreme groups in Orthodoxy? It seems to be that both are hindrances to the Church and hurt it more than they help it. (they also seem to often be the sources of conflict between Orthodox)

What are we to do about this? Can we do anything about it? Or will fanaticism always be an unfortunate part of faith?

I am not sure where I fit in this classification.

I am a liberal as far as my political and social convictions go. But if you ask me, do I want the Church to be reformed and to become more like modern "Western" communities of Christian faith, - I would say, no. I don't see anything in my parish, in the services there that needs a "reform." I am quite happy with how things are, as long as our Father Chris is with us and we gather for the Divine Liturgy about once a month.

On the other hand, I am not a diehard "anti-Ecumenist" simply because I am not all that interested in Ecumenism. Maybe it's simplistic, but that's what I understand: we, the Orthodox Church, have the "fullness" of faith. We do not need to unite with anyone or borrow anything from anyone. Yet, if "professionals" (clergymen, hierarchs, theologians) are looking for certain things that they find useful in the ecumenical movement - that's fine, let them do it. I will certainly not scream that this or that bishop is a heretic because he is an Ecumenist.

[Michael L]

BTW SS, I notice your quote of Fr Seraphim, and I think that its not in our best interest to become so obesessed about the end of times.

If you would listen to Fr Thomas Hopko on the matter, he gives us a much more basic idea about the end.



I agree that we must be aware of the signs in order to awaken people from their slumber, but even Fr Seraphim himself said that we are not make assumptions about when He (Christ) is coming back.


I have learned that Christians have always taught to be ready and to have their lamps burning so that we are not found unprepared when He(Christ) does come back.



I would interpret what Fr Seraphim says in this way, ''The end of each and every one of our lives is near, death and judgement are at the door''
Which indeed is always true.



But listen to what Fr Thomas Hopko has to say about the Apocalypse (I love him because he's so fiery with zeal)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5932925362367103900#

He gives us a very basic and well put understanding of the end of times.

I applaud this speech. Except his theology on death, Heaven and Hell. I think he's deluded on that matter.


But the evil one needs to be uncovered too, his plans cannot remain hidden.

This is the man who has uncovered all of Satan schemes and evil plans:

http://www.pantocrator.net/en/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownload&cid=5

I applaud this guy even more than Hopko for his Wisdom and perception.
He's marvelous

He actually teaches us how to get through the tough times that can happen in the world of a Christian.

Like Martyrs and stuff. You know, how a Christian is supposed to be, like Christ is.

I honestly do not think of the end times and the second coming of Christ, other than when I recite it in the Creed, I interpret Fr. Seraphim's quote as a reminder that my own death and personal judgment is near at hand because the Judge of all can call me at anytime. In other words, it reminds me of my own mortality in this world.

[DeathToTheWorld]

I honestly do not think of the end times and the second coming of Christ, other than when I recite it in the Creed, I interpret Fr. Seraphim's quote as a reminder that my own death and personal judgment is near at hand because the Judge of all can call me at anytime. In other words, it reminds me of my own mortality in this world.
[/quote]

I think that alot people would think that Fr Seraphim is saying that 'The End of the World is Here'.

That's the way I saw it at first.

But when you see it a few more times, you get a deeper understanding of the meaning.


Fr Seraphim does sound like he really believes that its close though.


I think that some people were offended by that.

[SolEX01]

This discussion is going nowhere because I don't even understand who we are talking about who has false beliefs and is considered Eastern Orthodox.

Why would you say this discussion is going nowhere?

What would you define as "Greek Orthodox" when you made mention of the term "Greek Orthodox Priest?"

Forgive me, I meant a Eastern Orthodox Greek Priest.

Thank you for making the distinction.   

[Punch]

I would like to chime in here as the resident anti-ecumenist, traditionalist priest.

<Major snip>

I sense in some of the posts here a cavalier attitude towards Tradition in some posters, but I think this is in reaction to the passionate posts of DeathToTheWorld.  I would suggest to him that while a lot of what he says is true in substance, its application and approach are being diverted through his own self-will. That would definitely not be a "True Orthodox" approach.

In Christ,

Fr Anastasios

I cut out a large section of your post to save bandwidth, but what I have to say concerns the entire post.  Thank you!  Very well put and thought provoking.

[SolEX01]

It was a mass baptism, my whole family except my dad were baptised (my dad was baptized in a displaced persons camp in Austria, his family was running from Stalin ) That's it. My dads name was Kalitvensev, in Russian, it means, 'man who swims up current'. Which is really what his life was, he was swimming up current because he had PTSD from vietnam and he had to drink vodka almost every night in order to cope with the stress.

Mass baptism by an "Eastern Orthodox Greek Priest" - especially around the 1960's - 1970's, does not sound too unusual.

He is the only reason why I am Orthodox, and my mom because she found out about his baptism.

So I am half Cossack. That is why I am Orthodox.

Forgive me and I never heard the above argument that being a Cossack makes one automatically an Orthodox Christian.

My mom liked to move around the churches to find out which ones were the most fit, she did not like the churches for some reason, and so I never really got settled into a church.

These would be Eastern Orthodox Churches?

Everyone in my family thinks she's insane, It , but she's had a breakthrough this last year since I started reading the Philokalia, and I showed her the truth of the Theology of the Faith(which saved my life, b/c mentally I probably could not go on without finding the spiritual books that were 'lost in space' in our bookshelf, I picked up Elder Joseph the hesychast, and started reading that, and it changed my life, and then, to my surprise I found all 4 volumes of the Philokalia 'lost in space' in the bookshelf, from then on I was lit completely ablaze for Orthodoxy.

The Philokalia are rare publications.  To have had them on your family's bookshelf is impressive.  Bear in mind that reading the Philokalia is like a 5 year old reading the works of Stephen Hawking.

Metropolitan Jonah told me that St Maximus was way too advanced for me, 2 months ago - which is indeed true, but when I read about what St Maximus had to say about Christ and redemption it brought me great consolation to my soul)

I wish I knew my Metropolitans as personally as you know Met. Jonah.   

This went a bit off topic but oh well.

Not necessarily.  The Orthodox praxis has many built-in safety mechanisms to prevent fanatical actions.   

[katherineofdixie]

It is difficult to classify a person as a Fanatic or Conservative or moderate or liberal. For instance, I hold many conservative/Traditionalist views but also some liberal ones which I guess could make me a moderate.

Exactly. It seems to me that the terms "liberal" and "conservative" are so ill-defined and poorly understood, especially when used in a religious or theological context, that they are practically meaningless for the purposes of a discussion.
Probably every person here has a different definition of those terms.