Author Topic: What do Orthodox do for services when there is no Church near by?  (Read 4657 times)

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Offline NMHS

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Folks,

I have heard that when there is no OC near by that the faithful have met together in private homes to read the service/prayer books.   If you were aware of a group of Orthodox Christians in your area that has no OC would you try and come together on weekends to spend time with others of the same faith?  What are readers services? Can those Orthodox come together and have "readers services"?  Has anyone experienced this type of circumstance and if not then do you have other experiences that relate to this?  I'm curious because I know there are a few Orthodox in the area and there might be more in the area since we live next to a large military base. 

Thanks

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: What do Orthodox do for services when there is no Church near by?
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2010, 09:30:05 PM »
Christ is Risen!

This may help

"When No Priest is Available: Reading the Service Books While Traveling or at Home"

http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/services_nopriest.aspx

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: What do Orthodox do for services when there is no Church near by?
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2010, 09:42:15 PM »
The Service people most often want to do is on Sunday when there is no priest.  The service which replaces the Divine Liturgy is called the Typika.  Essentially this contains a lot of the sung and chanted sections from the Divine Liturgy but without the priest's parts and without any consecration and holy communion. 


There are 7 times 70 ways of doing Typika as a Reader's service.

Here is a copy of the Typika (Obednitsa) as it is often done in the Russian Church without a priest.

As you can see, it is mainly things taken from the regular Liturgy.
 
The various parts of Typika are sung in the usual way as they are sung at a normal Liturgy.  But if you don't know the melodies, then reading them would be quite OK.
 
http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/hours_typica.htm
 

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Re: What do Orthodox do for services when there is no Church near by?
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2010, 02:27:37 AM »
Thank you for the links Father.  I've been looking for sources like these.
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Offline NMHS

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Re: What do Orthodox do for services when there is no Church near by?
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2010, 11:01:54 AM »
Father, thank you for the links.   :)

Offline HandmaidenofGod

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Re: What do Orthodox do for services when there is no Church near by?
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2010, 01:23:28 PM »
If there are enough of you (5 or more), I would contact the Bishop of the nearest Diocese. He may be able to send out a priest once a month or so to serve Divine Liturgy, and the weeks that the priest is unable to attend, you could do the Typika service.

Even if the Bishop is unable to provide a priest, being under the guidance of a Bishop is never a bad thing. If he knows that there are a small group of Orthodox Christians with the potential for more being added to the mix, he may make provisions to start a mission or start one in the future.

You might want to check out this post here for what happened when some folks in Helena, Georgia were in a similar situation.

God bless,

Maureen

"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jer 29:11

Offline NMHS

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Re: What do Orthodox do for services when there is no Church near by?
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2010, 10:39:45 PM »
If there are enough of you (5 or more), I would contact the Bishop of the nearest Diocese. He may be able to send out a priest once a month or so to serve Divine Liturgy, and the weeks that the priest is unable to attend, you could do the Typika service.

Even if the Bishop is unable to provide a priest, being under the guidance of a Bishop is never a bad thing. If he knows that there are a small group of Orthodox Christians with the potential for more being added to the mix, he may make provisions to start a mission or start one in the future.

You might want to check out this post here for what happened when some folks in Helena, Georgia were in a similar situation.

God bless,

Maureen


Thanks for the advice. I will keep all this in mind. :)

Offline Tikhon.of.Colorado

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Re: What do Orthodox do for services when there is no Church near by?
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2010, 10:44:52 PM »
my priest advises to attend an Anglican or Roman/Eastern Catholic parish, but DO NOT take communion! 

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: What do Orthodox do for services when there is no Church near by?
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2010, 10:57:17 PM »
Fwiw, from St. Raphael of Brooklyn...

"I further direct that Orthodox Christians should not make it a practice to attend the services of other religious bodies, so that there be no confusion concerning the teaching or doctrines. Instead, I order that the head of each household, or a member, may read the special prayers which can be found in the Hours in the Holy Orthodox Service Book, and such other devotional books as have been set forth by the authority of the Holy Orthodox Church."

Offline DeathToTheWorld

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Re: What do Orthodox do for services when there is no Church near by?
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2010, 11:01:38 PM »
my priest advises to attend an Anglican or Roman/Eastern Catholic parish, but DO NOT take communion! 

Ummm, I'm pretty sure that you would fall in the category of a heretic if you did that. I mean just if you were attending a heretical church service.

Anyhow, if you can't get to church, the Old Believers advise you to set up a house church, and for you to pray the Hours and the Typica.

I try to pray the hours everyday. Its really good to get in the habit of doing...
The Hours.
100. Like a bee one should extract from each of the virtues what is most profitable. In this way, by taking a small amount from all of them, one builds up from the practice of the virtues a great honeycomb overflowing with the soul-delighting honey of wisdom.

St Gregory of Sinai

Offline Altar Server

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Re: What do Orthodox do for services when there is no Church near by?
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2010, 11:52:14 PM »
my priest advises to attend an Anglican or Roman/Eastern Catholic parish, but DO NOT take communion! 

Ummm, I'm pretty sure that you would fall in the category of a heretic if you did that. I mean just if you were attending a heretical church service.

Anyhow, if you can't get to church, the Old Believers advise you to set up a house church, and for you to pray the Hours and the Typica.

I try to pray the hours everyday. Its really good to get in the habit of doing...
The Hours.

So does that mean that I'm a heritic because I sill HAVE to  attend Catholic Mass for family/school reasons???
All my hope I place in you, O Mother of God, keep me under your protection!

Offline HandmaidenofGod

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Re: What do Orthodox do for services when there is no Church near by?
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2010, 11:54:49 PM »
my priest advises to attend an Anglican or Roman/Eastern Catholic parish, but DO NOT take communion! 

Ummm, I'm pretty sure that you would fall in the category of a heretic if you did that. I mean just if you were attending a heretical church service.

Anyhow, if you can't get to church, the Old Believers advise you to set up a house church, and for you to pray the Hours and the Typica.

I try to pray the hours everyday. Its really good to get in the habit of doing...
The Hours.

So does that mean that I'm a heritic because I sill HAVE to  attend Catholic Mass for family/school reasons???

No. Listen to what your priest says; not opinionated posters on an Internet forum.
"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jer 29:11

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: What do Orthodox do for services when there is no Church near by?
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2010, 11:55:57 PM »
So does that mean that I'm a heritic because I sill HAVE to  attend Catholic Mass for family/school reasons???

No, don't worry about it. There are sometimes reasons, such as school, or the wedding of a friend, etc., that obliges us to attend a non-Orthodox service.

Offline HandmaidenofGod

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Re: What do Orthodox do for services when there is no Church near by?
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2010, 11:58:07 PM »
my priest advises to attend an Anglican or Roman/Eastern Catholic parish, but DO NOT take communion! 

Ummm, I'm pretty sure that you would fall in the category of a heretic if you did that. I mean just if you were attending a heretical church service.

Anyhow, if you can't get to church, the Old Believers advise you to set up a house church, and for you to pray the Hours and the Typica.

I try to pray the hours everyday. Its really good to get in the habit of doing...
The Hours.


Excuse me, but are you a Bishop? Perhaps you are this person's Spiritual Father? I ask, because I am wondering how you would be able to read this person's heart and soul to make such a judgment.

As this person is following the directions given to them by their Spiritual Father, and as Orthodox Christians we are to be obedient to our Spiritual Father, I believe you calling this person a heretic is both rude and out of line.

Furthermore, this person is not an "Old Believer" so why are you making recommendations that are not in line with his faith?
"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jer 29:11

Offline KBN1

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Re: What do Orthodox do for services when there is no Church near by?
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2010, 10:59:57 AM »
my priest advises to attend an Anglican or Roman/Eastern Catholic parish, but DO NOT take communion! 

Ummm, I'm pretty sure that you would fall in the category of a heretic if you did that. I mean just if you were attending a heretical church service.

Anyhow, if you can't get to church, the Old Believers advise you to set up a house church, and for you to pray the Hours and the Typica.

I try to pray the hours everyday. Its really good to get in the habit of doing...
The Hours.


Wow.  You sure do play fast and loose with that word there.

Offline Thomas

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Re: What do Orthodox do for services when there is no Church near by?
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2010, 12:45:49 PM »
Christ is Risen!
Dear "Death to the world",

We ask that you use the word Heterodox which means "other than Orthodox" Christian beliefs in place of the word "Heretic" or "heretical".As the Convert Issues Forum is a place in which we wish non-Orthodox and Inquirers to feel open to ask questions in a safe place without recrimination or judgement, we encourage the use of words that will enable them to ask their questions and set them, on the path to the Orthodoxy (True Worship). I am sure that your goals are the same as ours and I ask that you will abide by these guidelines. If you would like more information please read the PURPOSE OF THE CONVERT ISSUES FORUM located at the top of the topics listing.

In Christ,
Thomas
Convert Issues Forum Moderator
Your brother in Christ ,
Thomas

Offline Feanor

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Re: What do Orthodox do for services when there is no Church near by?
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2010, 09:34:31 AM »
If there's no Orthodox Church around, I go to a church which I think I will enjoy and find to be spiritually satisfying. If the best church in town is the Catholic cathedral, I'll go there. If it's a Lutheran church then I'll go there. I'm not too worried. I'm fairly ecumenical, just so long as it's not charismatic or whimpy.

Offline Thomas

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Re: What do Orthodox do for services when there is no Church near by?
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2010, 10:10:09 AM »
Christ is Risen!

I have been in the military before I retired from the military and occasionally found myself away from Orthodox Clergy and services during that time. When I was away from an organized parish, I would read from the daily prayers from a layman's prayerbook like the Antiochian Little Red Prayer Book or ROCOR's Jordanville prayer book  for Morning, noon, and evening prayers. I got a copy of the  Typika Prayer Service without a priest from my Archdiocese and read them. What one misses the most when doing services alone is the fellowship and support of other Orthodox Christians. The OC.net could provide that support  if such is the case, but make sure that the members of the OC.Net understand your situation and remember that you may ask them to contact you by PM (private message) in order to have more internet fellowship.

It is important when you are miles from an Orthodox Church to still pick out a home parish to travel to for major feasts, pay your tithes and offerings, have a father confessor, and even perhaps have a visit from your priest to your home area to bless your home or provide a a service that you may invite the public to (who knows you may be able to start a mission or preaching station where you live that will evolve into an Orthodox community).

As I travel over 55 miles one way every Sunday (110 per Sunday round trip) and major feast days, I understand the need for a good daily prayer cycle in my life and encourage you to start one if you have not done so yet.

In Christ,
Thomas
Your brother in Christ ,
Thomas

Offline NMHS

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Re: What do Orthodox do for services when there is no Church near by?
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2010, 11:25:19 AM »
Christ is Risen!

I have been in the military before I retired from the military and occasionally found myself away from Orthodox Clergy and services during that time. When I was away from an organized parish, I would read from the daily prayers from a layman's prayerbook like the Antiochian Little Red Prayer Book or ROCOR's Jordanville prayer book  for Morning, noon, and evening prayers. I got a copy of the  Typika Prayer Service without a priest from my Archdiocese and read them. What one misses the most when doing services alone is the fellowship and support of other Orthodox Christians. The OC.net could provide that support  if such is the case, but make sure that the members of the OC.Net understand your situation and remember that you may ask them to contact you by PM (private message) in order to have more internet fellowship.

It is important when you are miles from an Orthodox Church to still pick out a home parish to travel to for major feasts, pay your tithes and offerings, have a father confessor, and even perhaps have a visit from your priest to your home area to bless your home or provide a a service that you may invite the public to (who knows you may be able to start a mission or preaching station where you live that will evolve into an Orthodox community).

As I travel over 55 miles one way every Sunday (110 per Sunday round trip) and major feast days, I understand the need for a good daily prayer cycle in my life and encourage you to start one if you have not done so yet.

In Christ,
Thomas
 

Thomas,
I use the little red book of prayers for my daily prayer. What is a preaching station?



Offline Thomas

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Re: What do Orthodox do for services when there is no Church near by?
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2010, 05:02:05 PM »
A preaching station is the step below a mission. A priest occassionally comes to an area (a preaching station) where there are a few orthodox people and serves a liturgy or orthros/vespers and teaches (preaches) about the Orthodox Faith to a primarily non-Orthodox group. It is used I believe in both the OCA and the Antichian jursidictions as a way to determine if there is enough interest to formally organize a mission. Usually preaching stations are short-lived either indicating the area is ready for evangelization through a mission or not.

Thomas
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Thomas

Offline DeathToTheWorld

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Re: What do Orthodox do for services when there is no Church near by?
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2010, 05:30:40 PM »
Christ is Risen!
Dear "Death to the world",

We ask that you use the word Heterodox which means "other than Orthodox" Christian beliefs in place of the word "Heretic" or "heretical".As the Convert Issues Forum is a place in which we wish non-Orthodox and Inquirers to feel open to ask questions in a safe place without recrimination or judgement, we encourage the use of words that will enable them to ask their questions and set them, on the path to the Orthodoxy (True Worship). I am sure that your goals are the same as ours and I ask that you will abide by these guidelines. If you would like more information please read the PURPOSE OF THE CONVERT ISSUES FORUM located at the top of the topics listing.

In Christ,
Thomas
Convert Issues Forum Moderator



But don't you guys read the Bible? Don't you follow what the Apostles decreed for us?

Listen to what the spirit of God says through the Apostle:

Titus 3

 9But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

 10A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

 11Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.


Even being around someone who is a heretic is infectious, and the fact that you don't want to call them heretics but, 'heterodox' makes them even more infectious.

it shows that we accept such falsehood. Its like a virus, it spread and infects.

It has even infected me. The heresy of Origen which was spoken of by Revelation:

The heretics and the false teacher are spoken of in the Revelation, the Holy Fathers have interpreted this verse as such:


Revelation 8

 10And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;

 11And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.




Origen was a brilliant teacher(he was a 'burning lamp'). But he fell from his height(his teachings fell into the waters, which are people).

He was infected by falsehood, and this falsehood spread. It was wormwood.

What is Christ telling us about through this prophecy?   The Holy Fathers tells us: Heresy

If we add just a little wormwood to a whole pot of honey, this makes the whole pot of honey bitter, and this exactly how a heresy acts on a person.

Because it destroys a persons spiritual life.




If we are going to have the name of 'Orthodox' we will follow exactly what the Apostle is teaching us.

Otherwise our faith is false and God does not dwell with falsehood.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2010, 05:50:02 PM by DeathToTheWorld »
100. Like a bee one should extract from each of the virtues what is most profitable. In this way, by taking a small amount from all of them, one builds up from the practice of the virtues a great honeycomb overflowing with the soul-delighting honey of wisdom.

St Gregory of Sinai

Offline Vzldrb

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Re: What do Orthodox do for services when there is no Church near by?
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2010, 07:17:19 PM »
Christ is Risen!
Dear "Death to the world",

We ask that you use the word Heterodox which means "other than Orthodox" Christian beliefs in place of the word "Heretic" or "heretical".As the Convert Issues Forum is a place in which we wish non-Orthodox and Inquirers to feel open to ask questions in a safe place without recrimination or judgement, we encourage the use of words that will enable them to ask their questions and set them, on the path to the Orthodoxy (True Worship). I am sure that your goals are the same as ours and I ask that you will abide by these guidelines. If you would like more information please read the PURPOSE OF THE CONVERT ISSUES FORUM located at the top of the topics listing.

In Christ,
Thomas
Convert Issues Forum Moderator



But don't you guys read the Bible? Don't you follow what the Apostles decreed for us?

Listen to what the spirit of God says through the Apostle:

Titus 3

 9But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

 10A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

 11Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.


Even being around someone who is a heretic is infectious, and the fact that you don't want to call them heretics but, 'heterodox' makes them even more infectious.

it shows that we accept such falsehood. Its like a virus, it spread and infects.

It has even infected me. The heresy of Origen which was spoken of by Revelation:

The heretics and the false teacher are spoken of in the Revelation, the Holy Fathers have interpreted this verse as such:


Revelation 8

 10And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;

 11And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.




Origen was a brilliant teacher(he was a 'burning lamp'). But he fell from his height(his teachings fell into the waters, which are people).

He was infected by falsehood, and this falsehood spread. It was wormwood.

What is Christ telling us about through this prophecy?   The Holy Fathers tells us: Heresy

If we add just a little wormwood to a whole pot of honey, this makes the whole pot of honey bitter, and this exactly how a heresy acts on a person.

Because it destroys a persons spiritual life.




If we are going to have the name of 'Orthodox' we will follow exactly what the Apostle is teaching us.

Otherwise our faith is false and God does not dwell with falsehood.
DTTW,

I think you need to relax. Seriously.
I could say worse things, but that's the nice way of putting it. Leave your own views for yourself or in person, not on a public forum.

Offline Fr. George

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Re: What do Orthodox do for services when there is no Church near by?
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2010, 07:28:02 PM »
(Spacing modified in quote)
But don't you guys read the Bible? Don't you follow what the Apostles decreed for us?  Listen to what the spirit of God says through the Apostle:

Titus 3 9But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.  10A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;  11Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

Even being around someone who is a heretic is infectious, and the fact that you don't want to call them heretics but, 'heterodox' makes them even more infectious.  it shows that we accept such falsehood. Its like a virus, it spread and infects. It has even infected me. The heresy of Origen which was spoken of by Revelation:

The heretics and the false teacher are spoken of in the Revelation, the Holy Fathers have interpreted this verse as such:

Revelation 8  10And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;  11And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.  

Origen was a brilliant teacher(he was a 'burning lamp'). But he fell from his height(his teachings fell into the waters, which are people).  He was infected by falsehood, and this falsehood spread. It was wormwood.  What is Christ telling us about through this prophecy?   The Holy Fathers tells us: Heresy

If we add just a little wormwood to a whole pot of honey, this makes the whole pot of honey bitter, and this exactly how a heresy acts on a person.  Because it destroys a persons spiritual life.  If we are going to have the name of 'Orthodox' we will follow exactly what the Apostle is teaching us.  Otherwise our faith is false and God does not dwell with falsehood. 

DeathToTheWorld,

The moderators will never ask you to accept false teaching, and will never ask you to not correct one who falls into error.  Asking you to say "heterodox" instead of "heretic" in this Convert Issues section is akin to asking one to say "sinner" instead of "whore" or "murderer."  We know that we all commit the sins of adultery and murder in our lives - whether in deed or in thought, whether according to the letter of the law or the spirit - yet we also do not go around calling each other "whores" and "murderers."  Rather than use the pejorative term, which is not conducive to discussion here and is certainly not Christ-like behavior, we ask you to use the more general term.

This is especially true in the Convert Issues Forum, which is to be a safe-haven for non-Orthodox inquirers, catechumens, and newly Illumined to ask questions about Orthodoxy.  Please respect that.

As to disagreeing with a moderator's official-type correction in public: please PM (using the "My Messages" link near the top of the screen) the moderator if you have questions about what they've said, or if you disagree with their decision.  If you wish to protest what a moderator does, then PM their Global Moderator (Veniamin or myself) to do so.  If you want to complain "straight to the top," then PM FrChris.  Protesting a Moderator's official actions in public is not permitted.  If you wish to debate Board Policy, rather than a Moderator's actions, please do so in the following thread:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,25385.0.html

Thank you for understanding.

+ Fr. George, Global Moderator
« Last Edit: May 04, 2010, 07:29:35 PM by Fr. George »
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Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: What do Orthodox do for services when there is no Church near by?
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2010, 09:12:34 PM »
But don't you guys read the Bible?

Sure, I read the Bible. Here's a passage for you to consider...

"But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy." - James 3:17

So St. James teaches that you can be "without hypocrisy" and yet be "peaceable," "gentle," and "full of mercy". He also says...

"the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace." - James 3:18

Don't compromise on the truth, but be a peacemaker at the same time when you can. ;)

Offline Thomas

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Re: What do Orthodox do for services when there is no Church near by?
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2010, 09:47:58 AM »
CHRIST IS RISEN!

The above several postings have been made to clarify OC.Net rules, We will now return to the original topic. Just a reminder, the topic is "What do Orthodox do for services when there is no church near by?" Thankyou for your support and comments.

In Christ,
Thomas
Convert Issues Forum Moderator
Your brother in Christ ,
Thomas

Offline Father H

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Re: What do Orthodox do for services when there is no Church near by?
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2010, 04:33:36 PM »
Quote
Titus 3

 9But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

 10A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

 11Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.



I just wanted to say one thing about the misuse of this quotation.  St. Paul very clearly states that he is speaking of those "inside" of the Church who are leading people astray with heresy when he speaks in such ways, and those within the church spreading heresies we are to put without, "but those who are outside, God judges."  Therefore, it is not unreasonable for the moderators to be requesting this.   As Fr. George aptly put it, to call one a sinner vs. a whore, which did the Lord do to one who was outside looking in?   The hypocrites said "you whore" and looked to stone, the Lord said "let the one without sin caste the first" i.e. he turned the reference to her as a sinner in need of a repentence.