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Author Topic: News of the Patriarchate of Jerusalem and the EP in America  (Read 17947 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #90 on: December 18, 2009, 09:06:09 PM »

I will read the latest Orthodox Observer at a place with faster Internet connection where I can see the picture and better understand the situation....

After seeing the picture at a place with high speed Internet, I am convinced that the picture served both as a photo op and a gentle reminder to those who "haven't gotten the message" to get with the program.
....or proof that the EP isn't getting the message.

I'm addressing this situation from the lens of those ex-JP Churches who don't recognize their new alleged canonical situation.  
So was I.

We just disagree on one word (new vs. alleged).    laugh
My apologies.   angel
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« Reply #91 on: December 19, 2009, 01:48:21 AM »

The Holy Orthodox Churches are One in Communion and in Faith.  The Patriarchate of Jerusalem is one of the Ancient Patriarchates.  It maintains the Old Calendar and indicated to the Pan-Orthodox Congress of 1923, that it has to maintain the Old Calendar to comply with the several hundred year old accords with the Roman Catholics, Armenian Apostolic, and a few Oriental Orthodox Churches, I think, for use of the shrines.  It does maintain more amicable relations with the separated Old Calendar jurisdictions, than the other churches.  It isn't Greek Orthodox or Russian Orthodox; it is Orthodox.  The Church (government) of Greece supports it financially.  It's clergy leadership are largely immigrants from Greece, many coming from the island of Samos.
Thank you very much. Is he the head of the Orthodox Church in Jerusalem only or does his jurisdiction cover any other regions?
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« Reply #92 on: December 19, 2009, 01:52:59 AM »

The Holy Orthodox Churches are One in Communion and in Faith.  The Patriarchate of Jerusalem is one of the Ancient Patriarchates.  It maintains the Old Calendar and indicated to the Pan-Orthodox Congress of 1923, that it has to maintain the Old Calendar to comply with the several hundred year old accords with the Roman Catholics, Armenian Apostolic, and a few Oriental Orthodox Churches, I think, for use of the shrines.  It does maintain more amicable relations with the separated Old Calendar jurisdictions, than the other churches.  It isn't Greek Orthodox or Russian Orthodox; it is Orthodox.  The Church (government) of Greece supports it financially.  It's clergy leadership are largely immigrants from Greece, many coming from the island of Samos.
Thank you very much. Is he the head of the Orthodox Church in Jerusalem only or does his jurisdiction cover any other regions?

Yes, the JP is head of the EO Church in Jerusalem.
The JP's jurisdiction includes what is now Israel plus the Palestinian territories Gaza and West Bank.
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« Reply #93 on: December 19, 2009, 01:56:41 AM »

The Holy Orthodox Churches are One in Communion and in Faith.  The Patriarchate of Jerusalem is one of the Ancient Patriarchates.  It maintains the Old Calendar and indicated to the Pan-Orthodox Congress of 1923, that it has to maintain the Old Calendar to comply with the several hundred year old accords with the Roman Catholics, Armenian Apostolic, and a few Oriental Orthodox Churches, I think, for use of the shrines.  It does maintain more amicable relations with the separated Old Calendar jurisdictions, than the other churches.  It isn't Greek Orthodox or Russian Orthodox; it is Orthodox.  The Church (government) of Greece supports it financially.  It's clergy leadership are largely immigrants from Greece, many coming from the island of Samos.
Thank you very much. Is he the head of the Orthodox Church in Jerusalem only or does his jurisdiction cover any other regions?

Yes, the JP is head of the EO Church in Jerusalem.
The JP's jurisdiction includes what is now Israel plus the Palestinian territories Gaza and West Bank.
Gotcha. Thank you very much. Smiley

Now I need to find out what is the Jurisdiction of my own Latin Patriach of Jerusalem. LOL
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« Reply #94 on: December 19, 2009, 02:01:28 AM »

The Holy Orthodox Churches are One in Communion and in Faith.  The Patriarchate of Jerusalem is one of the Ancient Patriarchates.  It maintains the Old Calendar and indicated to the Pan-Orthodox Congress of 1923, that it has to maintain the Old Calendar to comply with the several hundred year old accords with the Roman Catholics, Armenian Apostolic, and a few Oriental Orthodox Churches, I think, for use of the shrines.  It does maintain more amicable relations with the separated Old Calendar jurisdictions, than the other churches.  It isn't Greek Orthodox or Russian Orthodox; it is Orthodox.  The Church (government) of Greece supports it financially.  It's clergy leadership are largely immigrants from Greece, many coming from the island of Samos.
Thank you very much. Is he the head of the Orthodox Church in Jerusalem only or does his jurisdiction cover any other regions?

Yes, the JP is head of the EO Church in Jerusalem.
The JP's jurisdiction includes what is now Israel plus the Palestinian territories Gaza and West Bank.
Gotcha. Thank you very much. Smiley

Now I need to find out what is the Jurisdiction of my own Latin Patriach of Jerusalem. LOL

To answer my own question about the Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem: Israel, Palestine, Jordan, and Cyprus.
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« Reply #95 on: December 19, 2009, 02:17:34 AM »

The Holy Orthodox Churches are One in Communion and in Faith.  The Patriarchate of Jerusalem is one of the Ancient Patriarchates.  It maintains the Old Calendar and indicated to the Pan-Orthodox Congress of 1923, that it has to maintain the Old Calendar to comply with the several hundred year old accords with the Roman Catholics, Armenian Apostolic, and a few Oriental Orthodox Churches, I think, for use of the shrines.  It does maintain more amicable relations with the separated Old Calendar jurisdictions, than the other churches.  It isn't Greek Orthodox or Russian Orthodox; it is Orthodox.  The Church (government) of Greece supports it financially.  It's clergy leadership are largely immigrants from Greece, many coming from the island of Samos.
Thank you very much. Is he the head of the Orthodox Church in Jerusalem only or does his jurisdiction cover any other regions?

Yes, the JP is head of the EO Church in Jerusalem.
The JP's jurisdiction includes what is now Israel plus the Palestinian territories Gaza and West Bank.
and Jordan and Sinai.
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« Reply #96 on: December 19, 2009, 02:27:59 AM »

The Holy Orthodox Churches are One in Communion and in Faith.  The Patriarchate of Jerusalem is one of the Ancient Patriarchates.  It maintains the Old Calendar and indicated to the Pan-Orthodox Congress of 1923, that it has to maintain the Old Calendar to comply with the several hundred year old accords with the Roman Catholics, Armenian Apostolic, and a few Oriental Orthodox Churches, I think, for use of the shrines.  It does maintain more amicable relations with the separated Old Calendar jurisdictions, than the other churches.  It isn't Greek Orthodox or Russian Orthodox; it is Orthodox.  The Church (government) of Greece supports it financially.  It's clergy leadership are largely immigrants from Greece, many coming from the island of Samos.
Thank you very much. Is he the head of the Orthodox Church in Jerusalem only or does his jurisdiction cover any other regions?

Yes, the JP is head of the EO Church in Jerusalem.
The JP's jurisdiction includes what is now Israel plus the Palestinian territories Gaza and West Bank.
and Jordan and Sinai.

Thanks.  I was thinking of places where the JP wouldn't conflict with other Patriarchates; I forgot about seeing a Cathedral in Amman on JP website and Sinai's status always befuddles me.   Cheesy
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« Reply #97 on: December 19, 2009, 03:36:44 AM »

And Qatar, also. AFAIK Qatar is the only Gulf state, which is not part of the Antiochian Archdiocese of Baghdad and Kuwait.
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« Reply #98 on: December 19, 2009, 09:47:30 AM »

For clarification, if a presiding official is a vicar (whether he's a Priest or a Hierarch), do Priests commemorate the vicar during the Divine Liturgy?  If the vicar officiates, does he commemorate his presiding Hierarch (in the current thread, Arch. Demetrios)?

From my experience, a vicar is ususally a priest who serves as a liason and administrator in place of having a bishop; however, he is not commemorated.  There have been priests in the GOA who have served as vicars during periods between the death/retirement of a bishop and the election of a successor.
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« Reply #99 on: December 19, 2009, 10:01:02 AM »

Quote
It should be brought to the attention of the clergy of the Patriarchal Parishes as to the form of the prayer for the remembrance of the hierarchs of the Russian Orthodox Church during the Divine Services: During the Litany: “For our Great Lord and Father His Holiness Patriarch Kirill, and for our Lord His Grace Bishop Job,” and throughout the text. During the Great Entrance: “Our Great Lord and Father His Holiness Kirill, Patriarch of Moscow and of All Russia, His Beatitude Jonah, Metropolitan of All American and Canada, and our Lord His Grace Job, Bishop of Kashir, may the Lord God remember them in His Kingdom, always, now, and forever, and unto the ages of ages.”

A liturgical anomaly.  Each parish admitting to being a 3-headed monster.  Stuff like this denies the ontological whole of the episcopacy - if the bishops are united in communion & commemoration, then a parish only needs to commemorate their own bishop.

So was I.

Your vitriol serves little purpose here but stirring up the passions in others.  While you bring up many cogent and certainly useful historical points, when you dress them with your snide remarks they begin to lose their instructive value.  Instead of saying something useless like calling the JP "Phanariot Orthodox," you can instead say something more constructive, like "the JPs have been spending more time and attention on the Sepulchre than their flocks, and the support of Greece has been used to exclude local clergy.  I pray the situation changes."  Just remember that if you're going to continue bashing an Orthodox bishop you're in communion with, you're essentially asking for the family feud.  Pray for enlightenment and progress in the JP; pray for greater inclusion of local priests and the election of locally-born hierarchs.  Encourage constructive discussion & action to that end.

Don't let your good points or intentions get lost in anger, lest you lose the opportunity to do good.
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« Reply #100 on: December 19, 2009, 11:55:12 AM »

And Qatar, also. AFAIK Qatar is the only Gulf state, which is not part of the Antiochian Archdiocese of Baghdad and Kuwait.
That would be odd.  Are you quite sure about that?  I don't know what basis the JP would claim it, and why the Patriarch of All the East wouldn't.
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« Reply #101 on: December 19, 2009, 12:09:31 PM »

That would be odd.  Are you quite sure about that?  I don't know what basis the JP would claim it, and why the Patriarch of All the East wouldn't.

http://www.qorthodox.org/English/index.htm

ag_vn is right.
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« Reply #102 on: December 19, 2009, 12:43:00 PM »

Maybe, because the mission in Qatar was started by Palestinians, not Syrians or Lebanese. AFAIK Patriarch Theophilos III, then Archimandrite, used to serve in Qatar in the late 90's.

The Antiochian Archdiocese has 6 parishes - Baghdad, Kuwait, Abu Dhabi, Dubai and Sharjah, Muscat (Oman) and Bahrain.
http://gulforthodoxchurch.org/Archdiocese.htm
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« Reply #103 on: December 19, 2009, 01:03:29 PM »

Maybe, because the mission in Qatar was started by Palestinians, not Syrians or Lebanese. AFAIK Patriarch Theophilos III, then Archimandrite, used to serve in Qatar in the late 90's.

The Antiochian Archdiocese has 6 parishes - Baghdad, Kuwait, Abu Dhabi, Dubai and Sharjah, Muscat (Oman) and Bahrain.
http://gulforthodoxchurch.org/Archdiocese.htm


The Palestinian transference of phyletism to JP jurisdiction has always struck me as odd.  My understanding is that the origins of the Orthodox Church in Australia stem in part from it.  Almost as odd at the situation in Qatar: the state creed is the exact same Wahhabi one followed and enforced in Saudi Arabia, yet Qatar broadcoasts (to the delight of all Arabs and despite the instance of all Arab governments to shut it down) al-Jazira, and allows construction of Churches.

Thanks for posting.
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« Reply #104 on: December 19, 2009, 05:15:50 PM »

A liturgical anomaly.  Each parish admitting to being a 3-headed monster.  Stuff like this denies the ontological whole of the episcopacy - if the bishops are united in communion & commemoration, then a parish only needs to commemorate their own bishop.

I've been in a cathedral parish for so long that I may be misremembering, but I thought it was normal practice in the slavic tradition to commemorate both the local hierarch and the presiding hierarch of the synod. The Patriarchal parishes are just combining that with the metochion practice which is a conscious 'anomaly'.
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« Reply #105 on: December 19, 2009, 05:50:49 PM »

A liturgical anomaly.  Each parish admitting to being a 3-headed monster.  Stuff like this denies the ontological whole of the episcopacy - if the bishops are united in communion & commemoration, then a parish only needs to commemorate their own bishop.

I've been in a cathedral parish for so long that I may be misremembering, but I thought it was normal practice in the slavic tradition to commemorate both the local hierarch and the presiding hierarch of the synod. The Patriarchal parishes are just combining that with the metochion practice which is a conscious 'anomaly'.
I'm almost certain that the parish I belong to commemorates the Local Bishop, and before the repose of Blessed Pavle we commemorated Him as well. Now we commemorate the Synod sans Pat. Pavle.
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« Reply #106 on: December 19, 2009, 06:59:27 PM »

A liturgical anomaly.  Each parish admitting to being a 3-headed monster.  Stuff like this denies the ontological whole of the episcopacy - if the bishops are united in communion & commemoration, then a parish only needs to commemorate their own bishop.

I've been in a cathedral parish for so long that I may be misremembering, but I thought it was normal practice in the slavic tradition to commemorate both the local hierarch and the presiding hierarch of the synod.
Has been as far back as I can remember (which is 25 years).
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« Reply #107 on: April 29, 2010, 03:30:39 PM »

For canonical reasons, the Patriarchate of Jerusalem decided to voluntarily withdraw from any jurisdictional presence in the Western Hemisphere.

A friend of mine is parish priest of a church in Seattle which has remained within the jurisdiction of the Patriarchate of Jerusalem.

http://www.pokrov-seattle.org/

How many parishes have refused to enter the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese?  How many have remained with the Orthodox Vicariate of Jerusalem in North America?

I don't know the answer to your question, but it begs another question: If Jerusalem has withdrawn their jurisdiction from the parishes, then to whom does this parish answer?  Obviously not Jerusalem - making them de facto a parish without a bishop, an ecclesiological impossibility.
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,22981.msg374475.html#msg374475
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« Reply #108 on: April 29, 2010, 03:48:33 PM »

^ Two can play this "quote something only tangentially relevant" game:

Instead of saying something useless like calling the JP "Phanariot Orthodox," you can instead say something more constructive, like "the JPs have been spending more time and attention on the Sepulchre than their flocks, and the support of Greece has been used to exclude local clergy.  I pray the situation changes."  Just remember that if you're going to continue bashing an Orthodox bishop you're in communion with, you're essentially asking for the family feud.  Pray for enlightenment and progress in the JP; pray for greater inclusion of local priests and the election of locally-born hierarchs.  Encourage constructive discussion & action to that end.

Don't let your good points or intentions get lost in anger, lest you lose the opportunity to do good.
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« Reply #109 on: April 29, 2010, 06:08:47 PM »

Christ is Risen!

This article, from 28 April, says that the Jerusalem parishes in the States continue to refuse to move to the Ecumenical Patriarchate.

"The reason that Archbishop Demetrios traveled to the Ecumenical patriarchate was primarily to discuss
with Patriarch Bartholomew and Patriarch Theofilos of Jerusalem the issue of the Orthodox Palestinian
parishes of the US, especially in the California area, which were turned over to the Archdiocese by the
Patriarchate of Jerusalem and will accept no other leader."

http://www.aoiusa.org/blog/2010/04/archbishop-demetrios-on-the-way-out/
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« Reply #110 on: April 29, 2010, 06:22:49 PM »

A press release which is teasingly ambiguous on the Jerusalem parishes, although if they have been placed in submission to Constantinople one would have expected a more explict statement than

"...the Archbishop participated in a meeting with the two Patriarchs
and other Hierarchs aiming at a final resolution of pending issues related
to the Palestinian-Jordanian communities in the United States, which
concluded successfully."


ARCHBISHOP DEMETRIOS VISITS ECUMENICAL PATRIARCHATE AND ATHENS

NEW YORK - Archbishop Demetrios of America made a five-day trip to
Constantinople and Athens. He arrived in Phanar on Friday, April 23 - the
feast of the St. George the Trophybearer - in order for his visit to
coincide with the visit of His Beatitude Theophilos III, Patriarch of
Jerusalem to the Ecumenical Patriarchate.

The next day, the Archbishop was present at the official welcome of the
Patriarch of Jerusalem and his delegation of Hierarchs and clergy who had
come from the Holy Land for the re-opening of the Jerusalem Patriarchal
Metochion of St. George in Neochori. After the formal reception of His
Beatitude, the Archbishop participated in a meeting with the two Patriarchs
and other Hierarchs aiming at a final resolution of pending issues related
to the Palestinian-Jordanian communities in the United States, which
concluded successfully.

On Sunday, April 25, the Archbishop attended the Divine Liturgy with His All
Holiness. The Liturgy was celebrated by the Patriarch of Jerusalem and his
synodia in the Metochion of St. George. In the afternoon, Ecumenical
Patriarch Bartholomew in  a special meeting with the Archbishop reviewed the
arrangements for the forthcoming Episcopal Assembly of North and Central
America.

The next day, the Archbishop traveled to Athens.
On Tuesday April 26, the Archbishop visited in succession His Beatitude
Archbishop Ieronymos of Athens and All Greece, Prime Minister George
Papandreou, Alternate Minister of Foreign Affairs Dimitris Droutsas, and
Foreign Affairs Chief of Protocol Ambassador Aikaterini Boura (formerly the
Consul General in New York). In all the above cases the Archbishop had
substantive discussions concerning Greece and the Omogeneia in the U.S.
The Archbishop, during the same day, also had two meetings with the advance
teams that prepare Ionian Village for the summer sessions.

Upon his arrival in New York yesterday, Archbishop Demetrios was informed
about some false reports in the Media referring to information of a supposed
resignation. His Eminence stated categorically that the reports were
baseless and patently false. The Archbishop further added that there is no
discussion about any resignation whatsoever. He said that he is looking
forward in the coming years to the continuation of the sacred and vital
mission and work of the Holy Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, with the
same faith, zeal, methodical planning and love, especially in view of the
difficulties confronting our contemporary world.


                           == 30 ==
GREEK ORTHODOX ARCHDIOCESE OF AMERICA
8-10 East 79th St. New York, NY 10075-0106 * Tel:
(212) 570-3530 Fax: (212) 774-0237
www.goarch.org    - Email: communications@goarch.org


Contact: PRESS OFFICE
Stavros Papagermanos
pressoffice@goarch.org

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« Reply #111 on: April 29, 2010, 06:46:58 PM »

/\ An interesting point arises from this Press Release and from the inceasing use of the term "Homogenia"


The latest Press Release seems to make a distinction betwen

1.  The Diaspora
2.  The Homogenia

The Homogenia are Greeks living abroad but it is unclear if they form a subset of the Diaspora or are distinct from it.

Non-Greek converts within the Greek Church in America are obviously not part of the Homogenia and presumably form another category of Orthodox within the Greek Archdiocese - the Heterogenia?  Would the Arab members from the Jerusalem parishes also fall outside the Homogenia?
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« Reply #112 on: April 29, 2010, 10:48:32 PM »

al-masiiHu qaam!
/\ An interesting point arises from this Press Release and from the inceasing use of the term "Homogenia"


The latest Press Release seems to make a distinction betwen

1.  The Diaspora
2.  The Homogenia

The Homogenia are Greeks living abroad but it is unclear if they form a subset of the Diaspora or are distinct from it.

Non-Greek converts within the Greek Church in America are obviously not part of the Homogenia and presumably form another category of Orthodox within the Greek Archdiocese - the Heterogenia?  Would the Arab members from the Jerusalem parishes also fall outside the Homogenia?

LOL. They do in Jerusalem: why wouldn't they in the Jerusalem parishes?

Yes, I've notice the increasing use of Homogenia even in English. Best I can tell, it means "canonical phyletism."
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« Reply #113 on: April 29, 2010, 11:11:05 PM »

An interesting point arises from this Press Release and from the inceasing use of the term "Homogenia"

Don't you know our Lord was born a Jew but died a Greek?
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« Reply #114 on: April 29, 2010, 11:23:22 PM »

An interesting point arises from this Press Release and from the inceasing use of the term "Homogenia"

Don't you know our Lord was born a Jew but died a Greek?
And rose an Arab?
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« Reply #115 on: April 30, 2010, 11:42:47 PM »

Christ is Risen!

This article, from 28 April, says that the Jerusalem parishes in the States continue to refuse to move to the Ecumenical Patriarchate.

"The reason that Archbishop Demetrios traveled to the Ecumenical patriarchate was primarily to discuss
with Patriarch Bartholomew and Patriarch Theofilos of Jerusalem the issue of the Orthodox Palestinian
parishes of the US, especially in the California area, which were turned over to the Archdiocese by the
Patriarchate of Jerusalem and will accept no other leader."

http://www.aoiusa.org/blog/2010/04/archbishop-demetrios-on-the-way-out/

I wonder which parishes they are talking about.  I confess to the former-JP priest in Milpitas, CA, who now commemorates Archbishop Demetrios and calls the parish a "Jerusalem parish of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America".  His brother is the priest in Rohnert Park who is in the same boat.  I've also spoken with folks from Felton, and they too commemorate +Demetrios and maintain a dialogue with Fr. Mark Arey.  None of them were apprised of the switch, nor thrilled with it, but they are submitting to it.
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« Reply #116 on: April 30, 2010, 11:51:39 PM »

Christ is Risen!

This article, from 28 April, says that the Jerusalem parishes in the States continue to refuse to move to the Ecumenical Patriarchate.

"The reason that Archbishop Demetrios traveled to the Ecumenical patriarchate was primarily to discuss
with Patriarch Bartholomew and Patriarch Theofilos of Jerusalem the issue of the Orthodox Palestinian
parishes of the US, especially in the California area, which were turned over to the Archdiocese by the
Patriarchate of Jerusalem and will accept no other leader."

http://www.aoiusa.org/blog/2010/04/archbishop-demetrios-on-the-way-out/

I wonder which parishes they are talking about.  I confess to the former-JP priest in Milpitas, CA, who now commemorates Archbishop Demetrios and calls the parish a "Jerusalem parish of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America".  His brother is the priest in Rohnert Park who is in the same boat.  I've also spoken with folks from Felton, and they too commemorate +Demetrios and maintain a dialogue with Fr. Mark Arey.  None of them were apprised of the switch, nor thrilled with it, but they are submitting to it.

That's really shocking.  Are you sure you have it right? These priests received no authorisation from the Patriarchate of Jerusalem to switch to another Church. They just "did it."  That is totally Protestant, both on the part of these priests who have no Canonical Release from Jerusalem and on the part of the Church which has taken them from Jerusalem with no Canonical Release.    Has the Mad Hatter taken control?
« Last Edit: April 30, 2010, 11:53:07 PM by Irish Hermit » Logged
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« Reply #117 on: May 01, 2010, 12:04:22 AM »

I don't know all the details of the switch, but what I related is true.  When first announced, I spoke with Fr. Giris and he was in quite a difficult spot and stated exactly what you just did---he didn't have a canonical release and so he could not stop commemorating Bp. Damaskinos/Pat. Theophilos.  Within the last six months or so, they began commemorating Archbishop Demetrios.  Shortly thereafter, a group of Jerusalem clergy, including Fr. Moheen from Rohnert Park, Fr. George from San Francisco, and one or two priests from Felton, visited +Demetrios in NY.  It was reported in the Orthodox Observer (see pic at link below).  Fr George from SF was named the Vicar for Jerusalem parishes.  What transpired during the time between these events I don't know.  But knowing how strongly Fr. Giris felt at first, I trust that the canonical irregularities were satisfied, even if not publicly.

http://www.goarch.org/archdiocese/otherpatriarchal/palestinian-jordanian

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« Reply #118 on: May 01, 2010, 06:12:57 AM »

I don't know all the details of the switch, but what I related is true.  When first announced, I spoke with Fr. Giris and he was in quite a difficult spot and stated exactly what you just did---he didn't have a canonical release and so he could not stop commemorating Bp. Damaskinos/Pat. Theophilos.  Within the last six months or so, they began commemorating Archbishop Demetrios.  Shortly thereafter, a group of Jerusalem clergy, including Fr. Moheen from Rohnert Park, Fr. George from San Francisco, and one or two priests from Felton, visited +Demetrios in NY.  It was reported in the Orthodox Observer (see pic at link below).  Fr George from SF was named the Vicar for Jerusalem parishes.  What transpired during the time between these events I don't know.  But knowing how strongly Fr. Giris felt at first, I trust that the canonical irregularities were satisfied, even if not publicly.

http://www.goarch.org/archdiocese/otherpatriarchal/palestinian-jordanian


I'm not sure that the canonical irregularities can be satisfied any other way but publicly.  Marriage is public, adultery is private.

Then there's that little problem that many were not released from Antioch to go to Jerusalem in the first place.  Somewhere there is Met. Philip's directive that Antiochian clergy may not concelebrate with them.  Looking for it, I cam across the JP complaining about Philip and the Jerusalem task force:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,5959.msg77324/topicseen.html#msg77324
perhaps also playing out here.
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« Reply #119 on: May 01, 2010, 10:56:43 AM »

That may apply to folks at Felton (and some of them have returned to Antioch in the last couple years), but not all.  The Hanna brothers, for example, are from Palestine and were ordained there.  I don't believe they were ever under Antioch.
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« Reply #120 on: September 15, 2011, 04:00:27 PM »

the church mentioned,Pokrov,, is not listed with the GOA but is part of the new vicariate?  What's going on here?  Either they belong or they don't.

Observer,

FYI The situation with the Pokrov church has not been cleared up, as it's been a few years since the change, their page still says they are under Jerusalem, and their make-up is of Russian immigrants with services in slavonic and ENglish, rather than Palestinians/Jordanians with services in Arabic or Greek, which doesn't match the usual picture of JP parishes (http://www.pokrov-seattle.org/about.html).

Ialmisry,

I am confused when you say about the EP:
Quote
Although in communion with the JP and not with the Old Calendarists, I wouldn't put the Old Calendarists on the same level as the JP: the Old Calendarists may have misguided zeal, but I admire the zeal and prefer then over the ilk who are appointed as archons of the EP.  The JP is up to no good: reducting the Mother Church to a band of tomb worshippers.  I say unofficially Greek Orthodox because it is part of that Omogeneia devoted to perpetuating the Turcokratia through the Ottoman's episcopal cartel.

I thought that the EP and JP were together with the Greeks rather than the Turks?
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ialmisry
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« Reply #121 on: March 19, 2013, 04:25:35 AM »

For canonical reasons, the Patriarchate of Jerusalem decided to voluntarily withdraw from any jurisdictional presence in the Western Hemisphere.

A friend of mine is parish priest of a church in Seattle which has remained within the jurisdiction of the Patriarchate of Jerusalem.

http://www.pokrov-seattle.org/

How many parishes have refused to enter the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese?  How many have remained with the Orthodox Vicariate of Jerusalem in North America?

I don't know the answer to your question, but it begs another question: If Jerusalem has withdrawn their jurisdiction from the parishes, then to whom does this parish answer?  Obviously not Jerusalem - making them de facto a parish without a bishop, an ecclesiological impossibility.
That might be asked, Father, of the Phanar on the OCA: Moscow has withdrawn its jurisdictions from the parishes and they answer to OCA bishops, who, as made official by the setting up of the ACOBoNCA under Abp. Demetrios (many years!), are canonical Orthodox bishops, in an autocephalous synod.

On a happier note: I noticed that the readings at the GOARCH website can be brought up in Arabic.  I'm assuming it has something to do with the Palestinian vicariate.  Nice.
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« Reply #122 on: June 14, 2014, 10:33:56 PM »

For canonical reasons, the Patriarchate of Jerusalem decided to voluntarily withdraw from any jurisdictional presence in the Western Hemisphere.

A friend of mine is parish priest of a church in Seattle which has remained within the jurisdiction of the Patriarchate of Jerusalem.

http://www.pokrov-seattle.org/

How many parishes have refused to enter the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese?  How many have remained with the Orthodox Vicariate of Jerusalem in North America?

I don't know the answer to your question, but it begs another question: If Jerusalem has withdrawn their jurisdiction from the parishes, then to whom does this parish answer?  Obviously not Jerusalem - making them de facto a parish without a bishop, an ecclesiological impossibility.

The Pokrov Church does identify itself as part of the "Orthodox Vicariate of Jerusalem in North America."  There is no indication on the Church's website that it is a GOA Church and no mention of the Church on the GOA Parish Search feature.

Only one other former Jerusalem Church with an active website identifies itself as a member of the "Greek Archdiocese."

I find this perplexing.   Huh Huh Huh

Update:  The Pokrov Church is now under the Serbian Archdiocese of North and South America.
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