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JoeS
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« on: November 22, 2002, 12:05:02 PM »

     I wonder whose was responsible for bringing this pageant to a predominately sharia muslim republic.  AND why are these peaceloving muslims making war on Chrisitans, they would do better petitioning and picketing the pageant and its organizers.
 
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Demonstrators vandalize churches, cars in second day of protests over Miss World article
Thu Nov 21, 8:18 AM ET  

By GLENN McKENZIE, Associated Press Writer

LAGOS, Nigeria - Demonstrators vandalized cars and places of worship in the northern city of Kaduna on Thursday in escalating protests over a newspaper article suggesting Islam's founding prophet might have chosen a wife from among contestants in the Miss World (news - web sites) beauty pageant being hosted by Nigeria.


AP Photo  
 Slideshow: Miss World Beauty Pageant

 
 

Alsa Hassan, the 43-year-old founder of local human rights group Alsa Care, said he witnessed one commuter being dragged out of his car and beaten to death by protesters. The victim had apparently tried unsuccessfully to drive through the mob.


There were unconfirmed reports of several other deaths.


Schools and shops hurriedly closed as hordes of young men, shouting "Allah akhbar," or "God be praised," ignited makeshift street barricades made of tires and garbage, sending plumes of black smoke rising above the city.


Police and soldiers riding in pickup trucks fired teargas at other protesters marching through otherwise abandoned streets waving tree branches and palm fronds.


A local businessman, Lateef Mohammed, said he saw young men smashing the windows of two small churches in Badarawa, a predominantly Muslim area. Two other witnesses interviewed separately gave similar reports.


"I just rushed to get to my home. It was very tense," the businessman, Mohammed, said in a telephone interview, explaining how he had shouted "Allah Akhbar" in fear of angering the demonstrators.


An off-duty army officer, who spoke on condition of anonymity, witnessed youths with red bandanas around their heads setting fire to a Catholic church in Tudun Wada, another heavily Muslim neighborhood.


Protests were also reported in the heavily Muslim neighborhoods of Rigasa and Kabala Doki, where witnesses said mobs smashed windows of a number of parked cars.


A Kaduna state government official, Ben Toro, declined to comment on the violence and vandalism, insisting that "calm had returned to Kaduna after a small incident." Nigerian government officials regularly downplay violence in an effort to prevent retaliatory attacks.


Previous riots in Kaduna, a largely Muslim city with a sizeable Christian minority, have escalated into religious bloodletting, killing hundreds since civilian government replaced military rule in 1999.

The latest demonstrations began early Wednesday with the burning down of an office of ThisDay newspaper in Kaduna. No one was in the building during the attack and the paper's staff were subsequently placed under police protection.

The attack came after the newspaper published an article Saturday under the headline "The World at Their Feet," which questioned the reasoning of Muslim groups that have condemned the Miss World pageant. The contest is being held Dec. 8 in the capital, Abuja.

"The Muslims thought it was immoral to bring 92 women to Nigeria and ask them to revel in vanity. What would (the prophet) Muhammad think? In all honesty, he would probably have chosen a wife from among them," the article's author, Isioma Daniel, wrote.

In the same issue, the paper published profiles and pictures of more than 60 Miss World hopefuls.

Muslim groups say the pageant promotes sexual promiscuity and indecency.

The Nigerian Supreme Council of Islamic Affairs, the country's highest Muslim body, reacted by urging President Olusegun Obasanjo to cancel the pageant and sanction the newspaper.

On Monday, ThisDay ran a brief front page editor's note apologizing for portions considered offensive to Muslims, which it said had been mistakenly published after being removed by the supervising editor. The newspaper ran a second, more lengthy retraction on Thursday, boldly entitled: "An apology to all Muslims."

ThisDay ran a second, more lengthy apology in its Thursday editions.

The Miss World pageant has been boycotted by participants from at least five countries because Islamic courts in Nigeria have sentenced several unmarried women have to death by stoning for conceiving babies outside wedlock.

The boycotting nations are Costa Rica, Denmark, Switzerland, South Africa and Panama.

Nigeria's government insists none of the judgments will ever be carried out. However, the government has so far refused to intervene directly in the Islamic court system adopted by a dozen predominantly northern states.
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« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2002, 05:27:46 PM »

    I wonder whose was responsible for bringing this pageant to a predominately sharia muslim republic.  AND why are these peaceloving muslims making war on Chrisitans, they would do better petitioning and picketing the pageant and its organizers.
 
JoeS
Actually, Nigeria isn't a sharia muslim republic.  The southern part of Nigeria is predominantly Christian, while the northern part is predominantly Muslim, and the government is secular.  The rioting was mostly in the north, and in Nigeria's new capital city, which is in the center of the country.  The reason the pageant is in Nigeria, is because the previous Miss World was Nigerian.   I spoke with a co-worker of mine this morning, who is a Nigerian Christian (Baptist), and he referred to those Muslims as "crazies" who will use any excuse to attack Christians and burn their Churches.   Some northern states in Nigeria, which are predominantly Muslim, have passed the sharia, and in one case, a woman has been sentenced to death by stoning for commiting adultry.  The central government has stated that they won't allow for this sentence to be carried out.  The rise of radical Islam is infecting countries such as Nigeria where Christians and Muslims had coexisted for quite some time.  Let's pray that this violence can be contained and stopped.

Theodore
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« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2002, 05:37:15 PM »


Yes, you are correct.  But you must also see the rapid spread of this religion from what it was 10 years ago.  The Christians in the remaining areas only have a short time before the balance of the country is entirely converted to Islam.

Please dont discount my prediction, it is happening and there is nothing to stop it.


Actually, Nigeria isn't a sharia muslim republic.
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emmaus
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« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2002, 02:40:19 PM »

According to this morning's reports, Christians--outraged that Muslims have forced the event out of the country--are rampaging through the streets of Kaduna, attacking Muslims,torching buildings, etc.

All this--on both sides--over "skin?"

No.....

Abdur
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« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2002, 03:56:09 PM »

My information tells me that the Christians are reacting to the damage done to them not only to their lives but to churches.  The Christians werent the ones who created this mess it was the muslims and their radical interpretation of the Quran.  The reason given by reports that the Christians were upset because the PAGEANT WAS MOVED is pure hogwash.   The Christians couldnt give a hoot whether or not the pageant was there or anywhere else.  They just want to be left alone by the Muslims.

JoeS
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emmaus
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« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2002, 04:37:32 PM »

Well...in this case, at least some Nigerian Christians and Muslims have one thing in common: a firm belief in lex talionis. Barbarians.

Of course, the Lord Jesus was a firm believer in "lex talionis." Huh--not!

My brother-in-law--a Roman Catholic--lived in Nigeria, knows the country well, and informs me, the majority of Nigerians--Christians, Muslims, Bahais, secularists, are sickened by this barbaric behavior. I certainly believe him.

(Ironically, the "true religion" of Nigeria is soccer: "What the gods have rent asunder the pitch shall stitch together.")

This whole debacle isn't about religion; it's about tribal power.

Peace,

Abdur
« Last Edit: November 24, 2002, 04:41:18 PM by emmaus way » Logged
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« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2002, 05:06:25 PM »

Well, I think it is the fault of a religion which preaches violence, terror, destruction, and which is infiltered by political things and whose fanatics really hate christians.
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emmaus
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« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2002, 07:36:19 PM »

Well, I think it is the fault of a religion which preaches violence, terror, destruction, and which is infiltered by political things and whose fanatics really hate christians.

And equally the fault of those who practice "violence,, destruction, or terror," of whatever religion.

Abdur
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Dan Lauffer
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« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2002, 09:45:02 PM »

Abdur,

Christians ought to act better but you and I don't face constant persecution from Muslims as so many do.  

The bottom line is that there is hardly a moral equivalence between the barbarity of the Muslims and the reaction by the Christians to it.  

The one standard that we have that will eventually stop the killing is to follow Jesus' peaceable ways.  I think that is what you point out.  Nevertheless, Jesus did take a whip to some people if memory serves.

Dan Lauffer
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emmaus
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« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2002, 11:17:40 PM »

Abdur,

Christians ought to act better but you and I don't face constant persecution from Muslims as so many do.  

The bottom line is that there is hardly a moral equivalence between the barbarity of the Muslims and the reaction by the Christians to it.  

The one standard that we have that will eventually stop the killing is to follow Jesus' peaceable ways.  I think that is what you point out.  Nevertheless, Jesus did take a whip to some people if memory serves.

Dan Lauffer

Maybe you don't. But why lower myself to the level of a barbarian and destroy my testimony, even with the personal threats?

If I do that, then they know I am no better than they are---in fact I am worse than they are, for I am a hypocrite.

Our Christian hands are far from clean of Muslim blood; Christians--for the most part--are just ignorant of the historical facts.


Peace,

Abdur
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« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2002, 11:26:34 PM »

Abdur,

That is just nonsense.  Educated Christians are well aware of the Crusades and they are aware of who began them.  When will Islam grow up and stop killing and enslaving people?  I don't think it ever will unless it ceases to exist.

Dan Lauffer
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« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2002, 11:49:49 PM »

Red Cross: 215 Dead in Riots Sparked by Miss World Article

Sunday, November 24, 2002

LAGOS, Nigeria — The regional governor warned rioters would be shot on sight Sunday as hundreds of people fled the northern Nigerian city of Kaduna after four days of religious violence over the Miss World pageant killed 200 people.

The violence among Muslims and Christians began after a newspaper article last week said Islam's founding prophet would have chosen a Miss World contestant for a wife. The pageant was then moved to London and the contestants packed their gear and flew to the British capital.

By late Saturday, the Nigerian Red Cross counted 215 bodies on the streets and in mortuaries throughout Kaduna, 100 miles north of the capital Abuja, said Emmanuel Ijewere, president of the organization. Previous estimates said 100 people killed.

An unknown number of others killed in the riots were believed to have been buried by family members uncounted, Ijewere told The Associated Press.

No new violence was reported Sunday in Kaduna, a Muslim-dominated city with a large Christian minority. Still, hundreds of people recovered what valuables they could from their destroyed homes and fled in cars, buses and on foot.

Those who stayed attended church services and replenished food stocks at markets, where a few meat and vegetable stalls reopened.

The Kaduna governor, Ahmed Makarfi, told state radio that security forces would "shoot on sight" anyone inciting new violence.

Yakubu Ibrahim, 27, returned to find his home in ruins Sunday after taking refuge at a local army barracks for three days.

"I lost everything except my shirt and my pants. I don't even have shoes," said Ibrahim, whose parents and four siblings were missing after the riots.

The fighting began after the Lagos-based ThisDay newspaper published an article on Nov. 16 saying Islam's founding prophet would have approved of the pageant.

"What would Muhammad think? In all honesty, he would probably have chosen a wife from among them," Isioma Daniel wrote.

Muslim protesters burned down the paper's office in Kaduna on Wednesday and rioting briefly spread to the capital, Abuja, on Friday before ending a day later.

More than 500 people were injured and 4,500 left homeless in Kaduna, Ijewere said. Casualty figures were not immediately available for Abuja.

The 80 Miss World contestants arrived in London Sunday on a hastily organized flight from Nigeria. The London show is scheduled for Dec. 7, the same day it had been planned for Nigeria.

"Obviously it's been quite daunting but I'm just happy to be home, looking forward to seeing my family," said Miss England, 22-year-old Daniella Luan.

A top Nigerian Islamic leader called on Muslims not to resume fighting. In an interview published Sunday in ThisDay, Lateef Adegbite, secretary-general of the Nigerian Supreme Council for Islamic Affairs, forgave the newspaper.

ThisDay has run several apologies in recent days, saying the offensive portion of the article was published by mistake.

"We accept that explanation in good faith, and I call on all Nigerian Muslims to forgive ThisDay newspapers," Adegbite said. "Such a thing should never be done again. And it should be a lesson to others."

Adegbite said Nigerian Muslims were grateful Miss World had been moved to London.

"We thought it was wrong," he said, describing the pageant as a "parade of nudity" that is disrespectful of Islam.

Much of the violence Friday and Saturday was by Christians retaliating against Muslim neighborhoods, Ijewere said.

"Some Christians feel especially bitter, because with the exit of Miss World, they have lost a symbolic battle while the Muslims have won," Ijewere said. "Our greatest fear is that it could spread to other cities now."

At least 22 churches and eight mosques were destroyed in the mayhem, said Shehu Sani of the Kaduna-based Civil Rights Congress. Ten hotels were also badly damaged, said Sani, whose group confirmed more than 200 people were killed.

One policeman and one soldier were arrested on allegations of dragging 15 Muslim men out of their homes and killing them, Sani said. The victims' bodies were then thrown into a river, he said.

There were also reports that police and soldiers gunned down more than a dozen other civilians without provocation, he said.

A police spokesman could not immediately confirm the reports.

Ethnic and religious fighting is common in Nigeria, Africa's most populous nation. More than 10,000 people have been killed in clashes since civilian government replaced military rule in 1999, and Kaduna alone saw riots in March 2000 that killed up to 2,000 people.
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emmaus
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« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2002, 08:54:41 AM »

Abdur,

That is just nonsense.  Educated Christians are well aware of the Crusades and they are aware of who began them.  When will Islam grow up and stop killing and enslaving people?  I don't think it ever will unless it ceases to exist.

Dan Lauffer

At least one educated Christian is ignorant of the facts.

You need to study the history of European colonialism and Islamic cultures--in the 19th, 20th, and 21st centuries. Playing the part of a cultural chauvinist and obdurately refusing to accept the facts will not bring Muslim souls to Christ, but will only frustate the efforts of those of us who are engaged in the evangelization of Muslims.

In Christ, Who is Truth,

Abdur

btw: The Crusaders probably slaughtered more Jews and Christians than Muslims.
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« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2002, 09:02:12 AM »

Red Cross: 215 Dead in Riots Sparked by Miss World Article

Sunday, November 24, 2002

LAGOS, Nigeria — The regional governor warned rioters would be shot on sight Sunday as hundreds of people fled the northern Nigerian city of Kaduna after four days of religious violence over the Miss World pageant killed 200 people.

The violence among Muslims and Christians began after a newspaper article last week said Islam's founding prophet would have chosen a Miss World contestant for a wife. The pageant was then moved to London and the contestants packed their gear and flew to the British capital.

By late Saturday, the Nigerian Red Cross counted 215 bodies on the streets and in mortuaries throughout Kaduna, 100 miles north of the capital Abuja, said Emmanuel Ijewere, president of the organization. Previous estimates said 100 people killed.

An unknown number of others killed in the riots were believed to have been buried by family members uncounted, Ijewere told The Associated Press.

No new violence was reported Sunday in Kaduna, a Muslim-dominated city with a large Christian minority. Still, hundreds of people recovered what valuables they could from their destroyed homes and fled in cars, buses and on foot.

Those who stayed attended church services and replenished food stocks at markets, where a few meat and vegetable stalls reopened.

The Kaduna governor, Ahmed Makarfi, told state radio that security forces would "shoot on sight" anyone inciting new violence.

Yakubu Ibrahim, 27, returned to find his home in ruins Sunday after taking refuge at a local army barracks for three days.

"I lost everything except my shirt and my pants. I don't even have shoes," said Ibrahim, whose parents and four siblings were missing after the riots.

The fighting began after the Lagos-based ThisDay newspaper published an article on Nov. 16 saying Islam's founding prophet would have approved of the pageant.

"What would Muhammad think? In all honesty, he would probably have chosen a wife from among them," Isioma Daniel wrote.

Muslim protesters burned down the paper's office in Kaduna on Wednesday and rioting briefly spread to the capital, Abuja, on Friday before ending a day later.

More than 500 people were injured and 4,500 left homeless in Kaduna, Ijewere said. Casualty figures were not immediately available for Abuja.

The 80 Miss World contestants arrived in London Sunday on a hastily organized flight from Nigeria. The London show is scheduled for Dec. 7, the same day it had been planned for Nigeria.

"Obviously it's been quite daunting but I'm just happy to be home, looking forward to seeing my family," said Miss England, 22-year-old Daniella Luan.

A top Nigerian Islamic leader called on Muslims not to resume fighting. In an interview published Sunday in ThisDay, Lateef Adegbite, secretary-general of the Nigerian Supreme Council for Islamic Affairs, forgave the newspaper.

ThisDay has run several apologies in recent days, saying the offensive portion of the article was published by mistake.

"We accept that explanation in good faith, and I call on all Nigerian Muslims to forgive ThisDay newspapers," Adegbite said. "Such a thing should never be done again. And it should be a lesson to others."

Adegbite said Nigerian Muslims were grateful Miss World had been moved to London.

"We thought it was wrong," he said, describing the pageant as a "parade of nudity" that is disrespectful of Islam.

Much of the violence Friday and Saturday was by Christians retaliating against Muslim neighborhoods, Ijewere said.

"Some Christians feel especially bitter, because with the exit of Miss World, they have lost a symbolic battle while the Muslims have won," Ijewere said. "Our greatest fear is that it could spread to other cities now."

At least 22 churches and eight mosques were destroyed in the mayhem, said Shehu Sani of the Kaduna-based Civil Rights Congress. Ten hotels were also badly damaged, said Sani, whose group confirmed more than 200 people were killed.

One policeman and one soldier were arrested on allegations of dragging 15 Muslim men out of their homes and killing them, Sani said. The victims' bodies were then thrown into a river, he said.

There were also reports that police and soldiers gunned down more than a dozen other civilians without provocation, he said.

A police spokesman could not immediately confirm the reports.

Ethnic and religious fighting is common in Nigeria, Africa's most populous nation. More than 10,000 people have been killed in clashes since civilian government replaced military rule in 1999, and Kaduna alone saw riots in March 2000 that killed up to 2,000 people.


Good post, Nicholas. Fair and factual, sans emotional distortions of reality.

Abdur
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« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2002, 10:34:49 AM »

Abdur,

Whether we agree or not on this issue I'm just thankful for vigorous young Christians like yourself.  It gives us old goats hope for the future.

Dan Lauffer Smiley
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« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2002, 12:55:37 PM »

Adegbite said Nigerian Muslims were grateful Miss World had been moved to London.

"We thought it was wrong," he said, describing the pageant as a "parade of nudity" that is disrespectful of Islam.

I can understand why they wouldn't have liked the newspaper reporter's comment.  That was disrespectful of Islam.  What I can't understand is the above comment.

How is the pageant itself disrespectful of Islam?  Because it is a "parade of nudity"?  Give me a break.  My uncle lived in Kuwait and Oman for years, and he told me he regularly watched as his hospital colleagues watched "Baywatch" on their breaks...married, Muslim men who would pray whenever the time for prayer arrived, etc.  He didn't consume alcohol because he was wary of doing such things in Islamic countries, and then his friends invited him over to their homes and they drank and gave him as much as he wanted to drink as well.  Are Muslims in Nigeria more devout (or crazy?) than those in the Arabian peninsula, or were they just looking for a fight?  

If a "parade of nudity" is offensive to Muslims, it is also offensive to Christians, but we don't go to arms for it.  There are much more important battles to fight, and less violent ways to fight them.  Unfortunately, Nigerian Muslims don't seem to think so, and would rather fight violently over insignificant things like this, and attack people who have nothing to do with it in retaliation.  

Finally, I find it absurd that some would find fault with the Christians who are retaliating against the Muslim violence brought upon them.  I don't recall ever hearing that the violence was directed at the pageant itself (for example, converging on the place where it was being held and waging war there).  Everything I've heard (and I haven't heard much, admittedly) says that they're just fighting, and Christians are targets.  What would you do in such a situation?  True, Christ taught that he who lives by the sword perishes by the sword.  But if they choose to fight and defend themselves, and even go beyond what they need to do to defend themselves (and going beyond this would be wrong), while one can question the morality of such, can you really blame them?  Has anyone writing here ever experienced such persecution?  What would you (or did you) do?  I know that I like to try and live the Christian life as fully as possible, but after 11 September, I was ready and willing take up arms and fight...and it didn't even directly affect me.  I know I cannot blame these people for fighting, because it probably affects them more directly than 11 Sept. affected me.
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« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2002, 01:53:00 PM »

Abdur,

Whether we agree or not on this issue I'm just thankful for vigorous young Christians like yourself.  It gives us old goats hope for the future.

Dan Lauffer Smiley

Dan,

Thanks! But I am also an old goat. Pretty girls used to wink at me; now they call me, "sir." How demeaning.

Struggling with the demanding and "absurd" ethics of the Lamb of God,

Abdur the Absurd Shocked
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« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2002, 02:18:51 PM »

Ah the joys of being a youth. Wink

Bobby
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« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2002, 06:26:11 PM »

Abdur,

I'm passed being offended by being called Sir.  I'm just glad that someone notices I'm around.  I know what you mean though.

Bobby,

I thankful for vigorous young Christians like yourself.  Keep up the good work and the strong faith.

Dan Lauffer
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