OrthodoxChristianity.net
April 23, 2014, 03:34:53 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: The Rules page has been updated.  Please familiarize yourself with its contents!
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Greek Church to preach in English  (Read 2613 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
TomS
Banned
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOA
Posts: 3,186


"Look At Me! Look At Me Now! " - Bono


« on: January 17, 2004, 09:52:13 AM »

Church to preach in English

Greece’s conservative Orthodox Church will begin holding regular services in a modern Western language for the first time tomorrow to cater to English-speaking churchgoers, it said yesterday.

The Orthodox liturgy hails directly from the Byzantine church tradition and is held in third-century Greek.

“The hymns will be still in Greek, otherwise the music would be destroyed. But all plain texts and the sermon will be in English,” Church spokesman Epiphanios Economou told AFP. The service will be from 7.30-10.30 a.m. in the chapel of Aghios Andreas in Plaka (19 Aghias Filotheis St).

“This is the first time the Greek Orthodox Church has organized an English-language service on a regular basis,” said Father John Raffan, an Orthodox priest from Scotland who will conduct the weekly service.

Athens expects a flood of foreign visitors during the Olympics, but Raffan, who converted in 1982 after coming to Greece, told AFP the service’s first aim is to look after the Greek capital’s homegrown, English-speaking Orthodox community. (AFP)
Logged
Αριστοκλής
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Posts: 9,910


ΠΑΝΑΓΙΑ ΣΟΥΜΕΛΑ


« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2004, 10:04:10 AM »

Actually, this is big news. I never thought I would see the Greeks do this. Perhaps they will eventually use some modern Greek so the faithful there can understand the liturgy as well.
I always wondered when in "Greek School" as a child why I could still not understand what was being said in church. Never got a good answer back then!

Demetri
Logged

"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides
TomS
Banned
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOA
Posts: 3,186


"Look At Me! Look At Me Now! " - Bono


« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2004, 11:09:46 AM »

The answer is the same answer that anyone gets when they question Church practices -- "tradition"
Logged
Anastasios
Webdespota
Administrator
Merarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Old Calendarist
Posts: 10,436


Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina

anastasios0513
WWW
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2004, 11:46:04 AM »

As I was informed by a Greek from Thessaloniki, that until they stopped teaching classical Greek as a mandatory class in 1976, most people that actually tried could understand Church Greek.  I am not oppossed to a little Modern Greek for the changeable parts.

That being said, the comment by the rep. who said "otherwise the music would be destroyed" is absolutely stupid.  Does this guy not realize that Byzantine chant was successfully translated into Arabic centuries ago? And that it works pretty well in English if you actually try!

anastasios
Logged

Check out my personal website with 130+ articles: www.anastasioshudson.com

Disclaimer: Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism may not be accurate expositions of Orthodox teaching.

I served as an Orthodox priest from June 2008 to April 2013, before resigning for personal reasons
Αριστοκλής
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Posts: 9,910


ΠΑΝΑΓΙΑ ΣΟΥΜΕΛΑ


« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2004, 12:08:25 PM »

As I was informed by a Greek from Thessaloniki, that until they stopped teaching classical Greek as a mandatory class in 1976, most people that actually tried could understand Church Greek.  I am not oppossed to a little Modern Greek for the changeable parts.

anastasios

I understand, Anastasios. If one understands even just modern Greek and attends services often enough, faithfully, one will understand Koine eventually; at least well enough for liturgical understanding. Classical/Attic Greek as taught in colleges is so far different sounding that I was totally bewildered in my first semester of "Ancient GreeK". To confuse the matter, in Greece Attic is taught with modern pronunciations which mirrors the pronunciations used in church today even when speaking Koine. But in the scholarly world, this practise is maligned and they are probably correct.
Still, English in Greece is good. Perhaps it will nudge some parishes here. My sister's parish in VA is 65% converts and Greek is only used in a token fashion. Is good!
Demetri
Logged

"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides
Br. Max, OFC
Target of choice
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,418


ECCE HOMO


« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2004, 12:11:09 PM »

uh oh . . . next thing you know the priests will be facing the congregation!!

Wink
Logged

"Where I live in Manhattan and where I work at ABC, people say 'conservative' the way people say 'child molester.' Leftist thinking is just the culture that I live in and the culture the reporters who populate the mainstream media
Αριστοκλής
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Posts: 9,910


ΠΑΝΑΓΙΑ ΣΟΥΜΕΛΑ


« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2004, 12:21:05 PM »

uh oh . . . next thing you know the priests will be facing the congregation!!

Wink

Only when asking for money Cheesy


{Have you caught Quinn on his new station?}

Demetri
Logged

"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides
Br. Max, OFC
Target of choice
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,418


ECCE HOMO


« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2004, 12:23:28 PM »

Demetri: not yet - but the NEW 104.7 carries my boy Sean Hannity Cheesy  and form what I have heard, Quinn has gone sindicated Grin another burgh boy makes good!!
Logged

"Where I live in Manhattan and where I work at ABC, people say 'conservative' the way people say 'child molester.' Leftist thinking is just the culture that I live in and the culture the reporters who populate the mainstream media
Anastasios
Webdespota
Administrator
Merarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Old Calendarist
Posts: 10,436


Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina

anastasios0513
WWW
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2004, 01:03:01 PM »

Demetri and others,

The subject of the pronunciation of Attic Greek is very interesting.  Until the 1400's, Attic and Koine were pronounced in the modern fashion (which has not really changed since Byzantine times). So we have for instance "o keereeos" not "ho kurios" for example for those who do not know what I am talking about.

Erasmus came up with his "Erasmian" pronuncation to try and make Homer actually rhyme like it should of.  He was partially correct.

Modern scholars in the western world went further and actually reconstructed Attic Greek with its pitch accents (instead of stress--think Chinese tones!).  Also, f is really an aspirated ph, x is really an aspirated kh, and th is really an aspirated t(h), which pair to their unaspirated counterparts of regular p, k, and t.  For English speakers we have both varieties but we do not distinguish them for meaning, rather it only varies where the consonant is in a word (think stop versus put in English; pronounce each out loud and notice the difference in the p).

In Greece they choose to teach with the Modern pronunciation even though they are aware of the reconstructed pronunciation.  According to "right and wrong" this would be "wrong" but the reconstruction is only a theory anyway and besides, modern Greek and classic share a large common vocabulary so what would be the point for modern Greek non-specialists to have to relearn the pronunciation? It would cause more harm than good.

If you look at seminary textbooks, they used to all be "Erasmian" but now they are showing both Erasmian and Modern.  At SVS we learn the Modern pronuncation since this is used in the liturgy.  I think it helps to know the reconstructed pronunciation too (I could pull it off if I had to), but I think Modern pronuncation is more beautiful.

anastasios
Logged

Check out my personal website with 130+ articles: www.anastasioshudson.com

Disclaimer: Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism may not be accurate expositions of Orthodox teaching.

I served as an Orthodox priest from June 2008 to April 2013, before resigning for personal reasons
prodromos
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 1,463

Sydney, Australia


« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2004, 05:27:58 PM »

As I was informed by a Greek from Thessaloniki, that until they stopped teaching classical Greek as a mandatory class in 1976, most people that actually tried could understand Church Greek.

The Socialist government has been a more than willing tool for the evil one in this country, the above is just one of a myriad of changes they have made.

My wife made a wonderful discovery just yesterday though. A group are coming out with a series of books teaching Ancient Greek (only the first book is out so far) using liturgical texts and church hymns as the basis just as had been done by the priests who taught children in the "secret" schools during Turkish occupation when it was forbidden to teach Greek. Volume one looks really good and we can't wait for the rest to come out.

John.
Logged
Linus7
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,780



« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2004, 11:52:55 PM »

I hope the use of English in Greek churches catches on, at least in the ones in the USA.

There is a nifty little Greek church only about 30 minutes' drive from me. I would go there, but the whole liturgy is in Greek.

So we drive over an hour one way to an ACROD church. Wonderful church - we love it - but it's so far away. But at least the liturgy is in English.
Logged

The first condition of salvation is to keep the norm of the true faith and in no way to deviate from the established doctrine of the Fathers.
- Pope St. Hormisdas
Νεκτάριος
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,437



« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2004, 12:18:16 AM »

Quote
There is a nifty little Greek church only about 30 minutes' drive from me. I would go there, but the whole liturgy is in Greek.

C'mon Linus, you know you want to learn Greek.

Logged
Br. Max, OFC
Target of choice
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,418


ECCE HOMO


« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2004, 01:20:35 AM »

Q: is there a need for an English language mass is greece?
Logged

"Where I live in Manhattan and where I work at ABC, people say 'conservative' the way people say 'child molester.' Leftist thinking is just the culture that I live in and the culture the reporters who populate the mainstream media
Linus7
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,780



« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2004, 01:29:45 AM »

C'mon Linus, you know you want to learn Greek.



You know, you're right, but I just don't have the time (and I'm too lazy).
Logged

The first condition of salvation is to keep the norm of the true faith and in no way to deviate from the established doctrine of the Fathers.
- Pope St. Hormisdas
KO63AP
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 50


Грай, кобзарю! ЛÐÂ


« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2004, 06:52:16 PM »

Q: is there a need for an English language mass is greece?

Mass?  During the Olympics, quite possibly.  As for the Divine Liturgy, I can envisage at least one parish in the centre of town having foreign language services on a regular basis, not just for the Olympics.
Logged

Ті, що сіють у сльозах, пожнуть у радосÑ
TomS
Banned
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOA
Posts: 3,186


"Look At Me! Look At Me Now! " - Bono


« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2004, 11:28:32 PM »

Definitely! When I move to Mytalini to the house my wife inherited!
Logged
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.064 seconds with 42 queries.