OrthodoxChristianity.net
July 22, 2014, 07:53:04 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Self Proclaimed Patriarch Filaret & The UGCC  (Read 5031 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Heorhij
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOA, for now, but my heart belongs to the Ukrainian Orthodox Church
Posts: 8,576



WWW
« Reply #45 on: May 12, 2010, 04:50:18 PM »

From the Byzantine (Catholic) Forum -

Self proclaimed Patriarch Filaret now threating to join the UGCC!  Since I don't read Ukrainian perhaps George or someone else can give a short version translation of this post?  So much for the Orthodoxy of a man who goes from a Russophile to a Ukrainophile overnight.  Now he threats to join the UGCC!

Will you support him in this George?http://www.ukrinform.ua/ukr/order/?id=885861

=====================

Orthodoc

Note what I have put in bold lettering from my original post.

Why don't you put in bold the PRECEDING sentence? I am asking because it is this preceding sentence and not the one you put in bold that was already quoted on this forum as a "proof" that Patr. +FILARET threatened (whom?) to "join" UGCC.

So, once again, IF the UOC_KP and the UGCC became one united church under Pope & Patriarch, would you remain loyal to so called Patriarch Filaret George?  A simple YES or NO will suffice.

Of course no, but this can never happen as you most certainly understand. And again, Patr. +FILARET NEVER CLAIMED THAT HE HAS ANY PLANS TO MERGE HIS JURISDICTION WITH UGCC. WHAT HE SAID IS THAT HE CAN ENVISION THAT IN THE FUTURE UKRAINIAN EASTERN RITE CATHOLICS MIGHT RETURN TO THEIR MOTHER CHURCH, THE UNIFIED UKRAINIAN (or KYIVAN) ORTHODOX CHURCH. He also said, by the by, that he knows some people inside the UGCC who also think that this might happen in the future. Of course, this would be possible only if our Eastern Rite Catholic brothers and sisters reject whatever Vatican innovations they were taught to believe (incidentally, perhaps ~90% or more of them are simply unaware of those innovations, believe it or not.)

Thank you!  That is all you had to answer in the first place.

Orthodoc

But I would do it (i.e. give the short version of the text in English) if there were no preceding sentence in your original messsage, "Self proclaimed Patriarch Filaret now threating to join the UGCC!" To the question, "IF the UOC_KP and the UGCC became one united church under Pope & Patriarch, would you remain loyal to so called Patriarch Filaret George?" I would say, "yes, because I certainly do look forward to Eastern Rite Catholics returning to their native Orthodox fold." However, with your sentence, "Self proclaimed Patriarch Filaret now threating to join the UGCC!" - my "yes" would mean that I support the alleged threat allegedly expressed by Patr. +FILARET that his jurisdiction, by his decree, will join the currently existing UGCC.

George:  

Mind explaining to us how an Orthodox can profess allegiance to both POPE and Patriarch and still remain Orthodox?  

Orthodoc

Sorry, I overlooked "the Pope" part.

No, of course if the UGCC remains under the Roman archbishop's jurisdiction, then it cannot become a part of the united Ukrainian ORTHODOX Church.

But then, again, you put this "the Pope part" into Patr. +FILARET's mouth. He only said that he can envision that at some point in the future the UGCC as a group of believers will return into the Orthodox fold.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2010, 04:50:47 PM by Heorhij » Logged

Love never fails.
Orest
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 920


« Reply #46 on: May 14, 2010, 09:48:20 AM »

Quote
George: 

Mind explaining to us how an Orthodox can profess allegiance to both POPE and Patriarch and still remain Orthodox? 

Orthodoc
I don't see any evidence that anyone in the Ukrainian orthodox Church, EP or KP has made this claim.  It is inflammatory.


Logged
Orthodoc
Supporter & Defender Of Orthodoxy
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 2,526

Those who ignore history tend to repeat it.


« Reply #47 on: May 14, 2010, 10:25:16 AM »

Quote
George:  

Mind explaining to us how an Orthodox can profess allegiance to both POPE and Patriarch and still remain Orthodox?  

Orthodoc
I don't see any evidence that anyone in the Ukrainian orthodox Church, EP or KP has made this claim.  It is inflammatory.




It is inflammatory but still appears occassionally on various Ukrainian websites. Especially  during the EP's last visit to Ukraine. It shows just how theologically challenged those who claim it are.  Be they Orthodox or Greek Catholic.  Its what happens when more emphasis is put on nationality than religion.

Orthodoc
« Last Edit: May 14, 2010, 10:27:17 AM by Orthodoc » Logged

Oh Lord, Save thy people and bless thine inheritance.
Grant victory to the Orthodox Christians over their adversaries.
And by virtue of thy Cross preserve thy habitation.
Heorhij
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOA, for now, but my heart belongs to the Ukrainian Orthodox Church
Posts: 8,576



WWW
« Reply #48 on: May 14, 2010, 11:22:25 AM »

Quote
George:  

Mind explaining to us how an Orthodox can profess allegiance to both POPE and Patriarch and still remain Orthodox?  

Orthodoc
I don't see any evidence that anyone in the Ukrainian orthodox Church, EP or KP has made this claim.  It is inflammatory.




It is inflammatory but still appears occassionally on various Ukrainian websites. Especially  during the EP's last visit to Ukraine. It shows just how theologically challenged those who claim it are.  Be they Orthodox or Greek Catholic.  Its what happens when more emphasis is put on nationality than religion.

Orthodoc

Please, for the n-th time, admit that your sentence,  "Self proclaimed Patriarch Filaret now threating to join the UGCC!" - does not contain a shred of truth and is, therefore, a... you know what. Please, admit it and retract it. If you do that, you will contribute to peace (and, may I suggest, also to your own salvation). If you do not do it, then you will remain a person who propagates... you know what. Untruths.
Logged

Love never fails.
Orthodoc
Supporter & Defender Of Orthodoxy
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 2,526

Those who ignore history tend to repeat it.


« Reply #49 on: May 14, 2010, 12:18:26 PM »

Quote
George:  

Mind explaining to us how an Orthodox can profess allegiance to both POPE and Patriarch and still remain Orthodox?  

Orthodoc
I don't see any evidence that anyone in the Ukrainian orthodox Church, EP or KP has made this claim.  It is inflammatory.




It is inflammatory but still appears occassionally on various Ukrainian websites. Especially  during the EP's last visit to Ukraine. It shows just how theologically challenged those who claim it are.  Be they Orthodox or Greek Catholic.  Its what happens when more emphasis is put on nationality than religion.

Orthodoc

Please, for the n-th time, admit that your sentence,  "Self proclaimed Patriarch Filaret now threating to join the UGCC!" - does not contain a shred of truth and is, therefore, a... you know what. Please, admit it and retract it. If you do that, you will contribute to peace (and, may I suggest, also to your own salvation). If you do not do it, then you will remain a person who propagates... you know what. Untruths.

The only thing I will admit to is perhaps I should have put a question mark instead of an exclaimation point at the end of my sentence.  However, the fact that I asked for a translation of the article in the very next sentence should indicate to you I was questioning the statement.  Don't try and teach me English George!!!!!!!  I admit nothing!!!!!

Orthodoc
Logged

Oh Lord, Save thy people and bless thine inheritance.
Grant victory to the Orthodox Christians over their adversaries.
And by virtue of thy Cross preserve thy habitation.
Heorhij
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOA, for now, but my heart belongs to the Ukrainian Orthodox Church
Posts: 8,576



WWW
« Reply #50 on: May 14, 2010, 12:26:20 PM »

Quote
George:  

Mind explaining to us how an Orthodox can profess allegiance to both POPE and Patriarch and still remain Orthodox?  

Orthodoc
I don't see any evidence that anyone in the Ukrainian orthodox Church, EP or KP has made this claim.  It is inflammatory.




It is inflammatory but still appears occassionally on various Ukrainian websites. Especially  during the EP's last visit to Ukraine. It shows just how theologically challenged those who claim it are.  Be they Orthodox or Greek Catholic.  Its what happens when more emphasis is put on nationality than religion.

Orthodoc

Please, for the n-th time, admit that your sentence,  "Self proclaimed Patriarch Filaret now threating to join the UGCC!" - does not contain a shred of truth and is, therefore, a... you know what. Please, admit it and retract it. If you do that, you will contribute to peace (and, may I suggest, also to your own salvation). If you do not do it, then you will remain a person who propagates... you know what. Untruths.

The only thing I will admit to is perhaps I should have put a question mark instead of an exclaimation point at the end of my sentence.  However, the fact that I asked for a translation of the article in the very next sentence should indicate to you I was questioning the statement.  Don't try and teach me English George!!!!!!!  I admit nothing!!!!!

Orthodoc

I am sorry. Then you remain a person who propagates lies.
Logged

Love never fails.
Orthodoc
Supporter & Defender Of Orthodoxy
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 2,526

Those who ignore history tend to repeat it.


« Reply #51 on: May 14, 2010, 12:42:14 PM »

Quote
George:  

Mind explaining to us how an Orthodox can profess allegiance to both POPE and Patriarch and still remain Orthodox?  

Orthodoc
I don't see any evidence that anyone in the Ukrainian orthodox Church, EP or KP has made this claim.  It is inflammatory.




It is inflammatory but still appears occassionally on various Ukrainian websites. Especially  during the EP's last visit to Ukraine. It shows just how theologically challenged those who claim it are.  Be they Orthodox or Greek Catholic.  Its what happens when more emphasis is put on nationality than religion.

Orthodoc

Please, for the n-th time, admit that your sentence,  "Self proclaimed Patriarch Filaret now threating to join the UGCC!" - does not contain a shred of truth and is, therefore, a... you know what. Please, admit it and retract it. If you do that, you will contribute to peace (and, may I suggest, also to your own salvation). If you do not do it, then you will remain a person who propagates... you know what. Untruths.

The only thing I will admit to is perhaps I should have put a question mark instead of an exclaimation point at the end of my sentence.  However, the fact that I asked for a translation of the article in the very next sentence should indicate to you I was questioning the statement.  Don't try and teach me English George!!!!!!!  I admit nothing!!!!!

Orthodoc

I am sorry. Then you remain a person who propagates lies.

And you are entitled to your opinion.  And you will remain a person who is so consumed with hatred and politics you can't comprehend what is being said before you respond with lies and accusations against the poster.

Orthodoc
Logged

Oh Lord, Save thy people and bless thine inheritance.
Grant victory to the Orthodox Christians over their adversaries.
And by virtue of thy Cross preserve thy habitation.
Schultz
Christian. Guitarist. Zymurgist. Librarian.
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,461


Scion of the McKeesport Becks.


WWW
« Reply #52 on: May 14, 2010, 12:54:49 PM »



And with that, this is locked.
Logged

"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen
Tags:
Pages: « 1 2  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.065 seconds with 35 queries.