Author Topic: Self Proclaimed Patriarch Filaret & The UGCC  (Read 6345 times)

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Offline Heorhij

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Re: Self Proclaimed Patriarch Filaret & The UGCC
« Reply #45 on: May 12, 2010, 04:50:18 PM »
From the Byzantine (Catholic) Forum -

Self proclaimed Patriarch Filaret now threating to join the UGCC!  Since I don't read Ukrainian perhaps George or someone else can give a short version translation of this post?  So much for the Orthodoxy of a man who goes from a Russophile to a Ukrainophile overnight.  Now he threats to join the UGCC!

Will you support him in this George?http://www.ukrinform.ua/ukr/order/?id=885861

=====================

Orthodoc

Note what I have put in bold lettering from my original post.

Why don't you put in bold the PRECEDING sentence? I am asking because it is this preceding sentence and not the one you put in bold that was already quoted on this forum as a "proof" that Patr. +FILARET threatened (whom?) to "join" UGCC.

So, once again, IF the UOC_KP and the UGCC became one united church under Pope & Patriarch, would you remain loyal to so called Patriarch Filaret George?  A simple YES or NO will suffice.

Of course no, but this can never happen as you most certainly understand. And again, Patr. +FILARET NEVER CLAIMED THAT HE HAS ANY PLANS TO MERGE HIS JURISDICTION WITH UGCC. WHAT HE SAID IS THAT HE CAN ENVISION THAT IN THE FUTURE UKRAINIAN EASTERN RITE CATHOLICS MIGHT RETURN TO THEIR MOTHER CHURCH, THE UNIFIED UKRAINIAN (or KYIVAN) ORTHODOX CHURCH. He also said, by the by, that he knows some people inside the UGCC who also think that this might happen in the future. Of course, this would be possible only if our Eastern Rite Catholic brothers and sisters reject whatever Vatican innovations they were taught to believe (incidentally, perhaps ~90% or more of them are simply unaware of those innovations, believe it or not.)

Thank you!  That is all you had to answer in the first place.

Orthodoc

But I would do it (i.e. give the short version of the text in English) if there were no preceding sentence in your original messsage, "Self proclaimed Patriarch Filaret now threating to join the UGCC!" To the question, "IF the UOC_KP and the UGCC became one united church under Pope & Patriarch, would you remain loyal to so called Patriarch Filaret George?" I would say, "yes, because I certainly do look forward to Eastern Rite Catholics returning to their native Orthodox fold." However, with your sentence, "Self proclaimed Patriarch Filaret now threating to join the UGCC!" - my "yes" would mean that I support the alleged threat allegedly expressed by Patr. +FILARET that his jurisdiction, by his decree, will join the currently existing UGCC.

George:  

Mind explaining to us how an Orthodox can profess allegiance to both POPE and Patriarch and still remain Orthodox?  

Orthodoc

Sorry, I overlooked "the Pope" part.

No, of course if the UGCC remains under the Roman archbishop's jurisdiction, then it cannot become a part of the united Ukrainian ORTHODOX Church.

But then, again, you put this "the Pope part" into Patr. +FILARET's mouth. He only said that he can envision that at some point in the future the UGCC as a group of believers will return into the Orthodox fold.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2010, 04:50:47 PM by Heorhij »
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Offline Orest

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Re: Self Proclaimed Patriarch Filaret & The UGCC
« Reply #46 on: May 14, 2010, 09:48:20 AM »
Quote
George: 

Mind explaining to us how an Orthodox can profess allegiance to both POPE and Patriarch and still remain Orthodox? 

Orthodoc
I don't see any evidence that anyone in the Ukrainian orthodox Church, EP or KP has made this claim.  It is inflammatory.



Offline Orthodoc

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Re: Self Proclaimed Patriarch Filaret & The UGCC
« Reply #47 on: May 14, 2010, 10:25:16 AM »
Quote
George:  

Mind explaining to us how an Orthodox can profess allegiance to both POPE and Patriarch and still remain Orthodox?  

Orthodoc
I don't see any evidence that anyone in the Ukrainian orthodox Church, EP or KP has made this claim.  It is inflammatory.




It is inflammatory but still appears occassionally on various Ukrainian websites. Especially  during the EP's last visit to Ukraine. It shows just how theologically challenged those who claim it are.  Be they Orthodox or Greek Catholic.  Its what happens when more emphasis is put on nationality than religion.

Orthodoc
« Last Edit: May 14, 2010, 10:27:17 AM by Orthodoc »
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Offline Heorhij

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Re: Self Proclaimed Patriarch Filaret & The UGCC
« Reply #48 on: May 14, 2010, 11:22:25 AM »
Quote
George:  

Mind explaining to us how an Orthodox can profess allegiance to both POPE and Patriarch and still remain Orthodox?  

Orthodoc
I don't see any evidence that anyone in the Ukrainian orthodox Church, EP or KP has made this claim.  It is inflammatory.




It is inflammatory but still appears occassionally on various Ukrainian websites. Especially  during the EP's last visit to Ukraine. It shows just how theologically challenged those who claim it are.  Be they Orthodox or Greek Catholic.  Its what happens when more emphasis is put on nationality than religion.

Orthodoc

Please, for the n-th time, admit that your sentence,  "Self proclaimed Patriarch Filaret now threating to join the UGCC!" - does not contain a shred of truth and is, therefore, a... you know what. Please, admit it and retract it. If you do that, you will contribute to peace (and, may I suggest, also to your own salvation). If you do not do it, then you will remain a person who propagates... you know what. Untruths.
Love never fails.

Offline Orthodoc

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Re: Self Proclaimed Patriarch Filaret & The UGCC
« Reply #49 on: May 14, 2010, 12:18:26 PM »
Quote
George:  

Mind explaining to us how an Orthodox can profess allegiance to both POPE and Patriarch and still remain Orthodox?  

Orthodoc
I don't see any evidence that anyone in the Ukrainian orthodox Church, EP or KP has made this claim.  It is inflammatory.




It is inflammatory but still appears occassionally on various Ukrainian websites. Especially  during the EP's last visit to Ukraine. It shows just how theologically challenged those who claim it are.  Be they Orthodox or Greek Catholic.  Its what happens when more emphasis is put on nationality than religion.

Orthodoc

Please, for the n-th time, admit that your sentence,  "Self proclaimed Patriarch Filaret now threating to join the UGCC!" - does not contain a shred of truth and is, therefore, a... you know what. Please, admit it and retract it. If you do that, you will contribute to peace (and, may I suggest, also to your own salvation). If you do not do it, then you will remain a person who propagates... you know what. Untruths.

The only thing I will admit to is perhaps I should have put a question mark instead of an exclaimation point at the end of my sentence.  However, the fact that I asked for a translation of the article in the very next sentence should indicate to you I was questioning the statement.  Don't try and teach me English George!!!!!!!  I admit nothing!!!!!

Orthodoc
Oh Lord, Save thy people and bless thine inheritance.
Grant victory to the Orthodox Christians over their adversaries.
And by virtue of thy Cross preserve thy habitation.

Offline Heorhij

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Re: Self Proclaimed Patriarch Filaret & The UGCC
« Reply #50 on: May 14, 2010, 12:26:20 PM »
Quote
George:  

Mind explaining to us how an Orthodox can profess allegiance to both POPE and Patriarch and still remain Orthodox?  

Orthodoc
I don't see any evidence that anyone in the Ukrainian orthodox Church, EP or KP has made this claim.  It is inflammatory.




It is inflammatory but still appears occassionally on various Ukrainian websites. Especially  during the EP's last visit to Ukraine. It shows just how theologically challenged those who claim it are.  Be they Orthodox or Greek Catholic.  Its what happens when more emphasis is put on nationality than religion.

Orthodoc

Please, for the n-th time, admit that your sentence,  "Self proclaimed Patriarch Filaret now threating to join the UGCC!" - does not contain a shred of truth and is, therefore, a... you know what. Please, admit it and retract it. If you do that, you will contribute to peace (and, may I suggest, also to your own salvation). If you do not do it, then you will remain a person who propagates... you know what. Untruths.

The only thing I will admit to is perhaps I should have put a question mark instead of an exclaimation point at the end of my sentence.  However, the fact that I asked for a translation of the article in the very next sentence should indicate to you I was questioning the statement.  Don't try and teach me English George!!!!!!!  I admit nothing!!!!!

Orthodoc

I am sorry. Then you remain a person who propagates lies.
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Offline Orthodoc

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Re: Self Proclaimed Patriarch Filaret & The UGCC
« Reply #51 on: May 14, 2010, 12:42:14 PM »
Quote
George:  

Mind explaining to us how an Orthodox can profess allegiance to both POPE and Patriarch and still remain Orthodox?  

Orthodoc
I don't see any evidence that anyone in the Ukrainian orthodox Church, EP or KP has made this claim.  It is inflammatory.




It is inflammatory but still appears occassionally on various Ukrainian websites. Especially  during the EP's last visit to Ukraine. It shows just how theologically challenged those who claim it are.  Be they Orthodox or Greek Catholic.  Its what happens when more emphasis is put on nationality than religion.

Orthodoc

Please, for the n-th time, admit that your sentence,  "Self proclaimed Patriarch Filaret now threating to join the UGCC!" - does not contain a shred of truth and is, therefore, a... you know what. Please, admit it and retract it. If you do that, you will contribute to peace (and, may I suggest, also to your own salvation). If you do not do it, then you will remain a person who propagates... you know what. Untruths.

The only thing I will admit to is perhaps I should have put a question mark instead of an exclaimation point at the end of my sentence.  However, the fact that I asked for a translation of the article in the very next sentence should indicate to you I was questioning the statement.  Don't try and teach me English George!!!!!!!  I admit nothing!!!!!

Orthodoc

I am sorry. Then you remain a person who propagates lies.

And you are entitled to your opinion.  And you will remain a person who is so consumed with hatred and politics you can't comprehend what is being said before you respond with lies and accusations against the poster.

Orthodoc
Oh Lord, Save thy people and bless thine inheritance.
Grant victory to the Orthodox Christians over their adversaries.
And by virtue of thy Cross preserve thy habitation.

Offline Schultz

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Re: Self Proclaimed Patriarch Filaret & The UGCC
« Reply #52 on: May 14, 2010, 12:54:49 PM »


And with that, this is locked.
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