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Author Topic: British royal "Orthodox seekers"  (Read 2770 times) Average Rating: 0
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erracht
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« on: January 17, 2004, 08:56:33 AM »

I read that King Henry VIII, who broke away from Rome, considered converting to Orthodoxy and that his daughter, Queen Elizabeth I, did too (I think in consideration of the marriage proposal of Tsar Ivan I/IV). Does anyone know more about these things and why they ultimately did not become Orthodox?

I've heard tales that Prince Phillip, the present Queen's husband, stopped practicing Orthodoxy (his German or Danish family converted when it became the ruling house of Greece), but started again in the 1990s. Is this true or is it just urban legend? Is it true that Prince Charles is interested in Orthodoxy and that his boys cross themselves in the proper Orthodox fashion?
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« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2004, 09:13:18 AM »

I wouldn't expect anything good of Henry VIII and Elisabeth I. They were both murderers. I am sure that even Henry VIII did consider Orthodoxy it was onl because he would have been able to divorce his wives.

I would also doubt anything realistic about Prince Charles and his sons. They are English and would cross themselves - if they even do that - according to English practice.

Prince Charles is as interested in Buddhism as he is in Orthodoxy. He wants to be defender of faith not the defender of the faith.  He is a confused adulterer who has a mistress.

Prince Philip, whose family is still Orthodox, would be the only one likely to become Orthodox but I don't see that happening either.

Prince Charles did walk over from Sandringham with the King of Rumania to visit the British Orthodox Church of St Felix which is located on the Sandringham estate.
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« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2004, 10:15:27 AM »

There was someone related to the british royal family who was married by Patriarch Ignatius of Antioch either in the late 80s or early 90s. I don't remember the detail but perhaps this will help someone else remember the details and post them.
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« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2004, 10:28:37 AM »

I think that Prince Philip's sister is an Orthodox nun. I know he has visted a relative who is a nun.
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« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2004, 11:01:16 AM »

His mother was a nun.

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I think that Prince Philip's sister is an Orthodox nun. I know he has visted a relative who is a nun.
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« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2004, 08:13:09 PM »

I've read stories that Prince Charles is interested in Orthodoxy, and I have to admit that my first thought was, "does he realize that he wouldn't be able to carry on his affair with Camilla if he becomes Orthodox?"  Somehow, I don't think he's willing to do that.
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« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2004, 10:01:53 PM »

I think that when QE II and the rest of the present crop of "royals" kick the bucket, they should all be stuffed and placed on display in the British Museum. A large sign should be placed in front of them that reads: "Last of the monarchical parasites."

Actually, the Royal Family is not something that concerns me much at all.

Keep 'em, dump 'em; it's all the same to me.

If they went Orthodox I might change my mind about that.  Grin

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« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2004, 10:33:41 PM »

what do we make of this?

http://www.orthodoxengland.btinternet.co.uk/hrh.htm
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« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2004, 10:42:07 PM »


Wow. Interesting.

I guess I'll have to do something I never even thought about before: start praying for Prince Charles.

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« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2004, 12:36:41 AM »


What do we make of it?  Very little.  It's speculation."Friends say" A close friend is said to have informed.."  "It is claimed that there was some sort of 'spiritual ceremony'. (Surely this can only be the Prince's induction as a catechumen of the Orthodox Church?)."  A "Surely" from a "claimed"?      It reminds me of this Sidney Harris cartoon:

http://www.scienceteecher.com/miracle.htm

We don't know unless Prince Charles chooses to say or write something.  

Ebor
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« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2004, 04:43:04 AM »

I think that when QE II and the rest of the present crop of "royals" kick the bucket, they should all be stuffed and placed on display in the British Museum. A large sign should be placed in front of them that reads: "Last of the monarchical parasites."

Why talk offensively like that about any people, let alone an institution that has nothing to do with you.
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« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2004, 03:44:49 PM »

Well, I think that there was some good that came out of Henry VIII and Elizabeth I, too.  They were much more then just "murderers", their reigns had both good and bad.  They are no more 1 dimensional then any other human being.  

The British royal family are who they are.  They do charity work.  Some are better then others.  They're human beings whether they are EO or not.  

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« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2004, 03:46:51 PM »

Under Elizabeth and Henry VIII all of the monasteries were destroyed, the relics of saints thrown out onto rubbish heaps and the monastic churches either knocked down or turned into warehouses or homes.

We are still suffering from the spiritual fallout of such evil.
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« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2004, 03:56:58 PM »

Quote
  I think that when QE II and the rest of the present crop of "royals" kick the bucket, they should all be stuffed and placed on display in the British Museum. A large sign should be placed in front of them that reads: "Last of the monarchical parasites."

Actually, the Royal Family is not something that concerns me much at all.

Keep 'em, dump 'em; it's all the same to me.

If they went Orthodox I might change my mind about that.

OK so feeling like that - why say anything at all - much wiser to say nowt.
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« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2004, 03:57:53 PM »

I have read English History.  I know of the Dissolution of the Monasteries.  I also know some of the European Politcal structures and that the break with Rome was not "Just because Henry wanted a divorce".   Other monarchs in Europe were hardly pristine exemplars all that is good and neither were some of the Popes.  Power is addictive even to churchmen.  And a great human temptation is to have one's own way and brook no denial.   This has lead and still leads to conflict and struggles.  

We cannot know what might have been or that had Henry not broken that England would  have been 'paradise enow".  I'd hazard a guess that it would not have been EO by a long chalk.

It would seem that we may have to agree to disagree on this subject, Peter.  No offense is intended.  

Here, Here! Slave on saying nothing at times.

Ebor

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« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2004, 04:14:45 PM »

Dear Ebor

I do not wish to disagree with you either. Truly. And I certainly will not pursue my comments as though we disagreed. Of course you are correct that all historical characters are more than one dimensional. Forgive me for sounding aggressive.

I just feel a great sadness and pain when I visit so many Christian sites in this country and know that the relics of great saints are no longer there but were treated as rubbish and thrown onto dung heaps.

Just a few miles from where I live I go to visit the ruins of the monastery St Augustine founded. The grave of my patron remains marked in the grass, but the relics of all of the earliest missionary bishops and abbots are gone. Just a great void where their shrines were.

And the shrine of my church patron St Alban, though thankfully reconstructed, is empty. Our proto-martyr was venerated there for 1300 years or so, even safe through the pagan Anglo-Saxon period. But Henry saw the holy remains thrown out. I am very very fortunate to be the steward of a small relic of St Alban preserved in France by devout Catholics, may God reward them.

This is what makes me so angry and so sad.

Even France, when I pop over the channel, seems to be full of the relics of the saints, despite several godless revolutions. I venerated a relic of St John the Baptist with my young son at Amien Cathedral, and I have the relics of several other French saints.

I agree England would not have been Orthodox, but the presence of the relics of the saints would have been a great strength to the truth, instead I do believe we are under judgement. The sins of our fathers visited even upon this pagan and careless generation.

As for history I agree with you - as for my sensibilities as an Orthodox I feel the loss of all that was destroyed. All we have left are broken ruins and scattered stones.
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« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2004, 04:39:46 PM »

[I have read English History.  I know of the Dissolution of the Monasteries.  I also know some of the European Politcal structures and that the break with Rome was not "Just because Henry wanted a divorce".]

So what was the break over if not the divorce?

If Henry had not broken with Rome and later implemented the reforms coming out of the Council of Trent England might still be RC today.

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« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2004, 04:50:08 PM »

There are some good books about the Church at the time of the religious revolution of the 16th/17th centuries. The Stripping of the Altars paints a very different one, based on substantial and interesting evidence, which shows a much more vibrant Church than we are often presented with. Most people would have been happy carrying on being Catholic, and many died standing up for the faith.

St Winefride's Well at Holywell in North Wales is a wonderful place to visit being the only pilgrim site that the Catholics managed to keep going all through the penal times. It has a continuous history of 1500 years of worship and devotion.
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« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2004, 04:55:49 PM »

Prof Duffy's book "Striping of the Altars" is excellent.  His other book "Voices at Morebath" is also very good

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« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2004, 04:59:29 PM »

Absolutely. I like to read the lives of the English Martyrs as well. Many ordinary people facing an horrific death by being hung, drawn and quartered, yet boldy professing their faith to the last. Many times speaking as I'd expect an Orthodox, refusing the ministrations of the Protestants and commending themselves to God in the prayers of St Mary and the saints. They are very moving. I could never call such men 'graceless', they have more of grace about them than I could ever hope for.
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