Author Topic: Conflict between faith and reason  (Read 1442 times)

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Offline deuteros

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Conflict between faith and reason
« on: April 23, 2010, 09:29:14 AM »
Because Western culture has a very unbalanced view of reason (in my opinion) and places it far above other ways of knowing, many Westerners perceive a conflict between faith and reason. So many become atheists because of the perceived failure to reconcile these two seemingly opposing ideas.

How is reason perceived in the East?

Offline Papist

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Re: Conflict between faith and reason
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2010, 10:17:48 AM »
How is there a contradiction between faith and reason? I don't see one.
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Offline deuteros

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Re: Conflict between faith and reason
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2010, 10:35:34 AM »
I'm not saying there's a conflict. I'm saying based on how Western culture views reason, many Westerners see a conflict between them.

Offline John of the North

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Re: Conflict between faith and reason
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2010, 11:12:32 AM »
“The writings of the Russian philosopher Ivan Kireyevsky contain some basic ideas which are very apropos for us today. The usual argument between faith and reason, he wrote, is not correct. Reason is such a thing that it must be raised up to a higher level, and this is what the Orthodox Church tries to give. By itself, reason does not offer any more than an understanding of this two-dimensional, corporeal realm, with which most of the critics and scholars of the West are occupying themselves. There is something, however, above this. According to Western thinking, if you go “above” this, you usually have to deny reason and “jump into the dark.” In Orthodoxy this is not so, for the reason itself is so exposed to Truth that it begins to be elevated above itself.”- Blessed Fr. Seraphim Rose
"Christianity is not a philosophy, not a doctrine, but life." - Elder Sophrony (Sakharov)

Offline Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)

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Re: Conflict between faith and reason
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2010, 11:39:17 AM »
^

Great quote Ukie! Here is one that I just got in my email:

""...we grapple with this 'law of sin' (Rom. 8:2) and expel it from our body, establishing in its place the surveillance of the intellect. Through this surveillance we prescribe what is fitting for every faculty of the soul and every member of the body. For the senses we prescribe what they should take into account and to what extent they should do so, and this exercise of the spiritual law is called self-control."

St. Gregory Palamas."

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Conflict between faith and reason
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2010, 11:57:14 AM »
Quote
How is reason perceived in the East?

Some see faith as the fulfillment or completion of reason. Reason gets us so far, and then faith takes us the rest of the way...

"For faith, the divine has its being precisely there where thought does not reach" - St. Gregory of Nyssa, Life of Moses, 1

"For faith is that which completes our argument." - St. Gregory the Theologian, Oration 29, 21

"And let faith lead us rather than reason, if at least you have learnt the feebleness of the latter in matters nearer to you, and have known reason by knowing the things that are beyond reason" - St. Gregory the Theologian, Oration 28, 28

Offline pensateomnia

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Re: Conflict between faith and reason
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2010, 12:43:13 PM »
How is there a contradiction between faith and reason? I don't see one.

I assume he is thinking about systematic theology, especially epistemology, post Hume and Kant. Or, perhaps, just in popular perception. But that has little to do with philosophy or theology. That's mainly the fruit of a general lack of authentic faith experience.
But for I am a man not textueel I wol noght telle of textes neuer a deel. (Chaucer, The Manciple's Tale, 1.131)

Offline Jetavan

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Re: Conflict between faith and reason
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2010, 01:28:14 PM »
Parallel question: is there a conflict between intuition and reason?
If you will, you can become all flame.
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Offline ytterbiumanalyst

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Re: Conflict between faith and reason
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2010, 01:30:24 PM »
Parallel question: is there a conflict between intuition and reason?
No; they're just different ways of arriving at a conclusion.
"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens

Offline Papist

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Re: Conflict between faith and reason
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2010, 05:34:50 PM »
How is there a contradiction between faith and reason? I don't see one.

I assume he is thinking about systematic theology, especially epistemology, post Hume and Kant. Or, perhaps, just in popular perception. But that has little to do with philosophy or theology. That's mainly the fruit of a general lack of authentic faith experience.
Reason is indeed seen in avery different manner after Kant, and even after Decartes who took a much narrower view of reason than did the ancients.
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