Metropolitan KALLISTOS Ware to visit Annunciation Cathedral in Atlanta

[GreekChef]

Christ is Risen!

Just wanted to invite anyone who may be in the area...

His Eminence Metropolitan KALLISTOS Ware (World renowned author of such books as The Orthodox Church and The Orthodox Way) will be visiting Annunciation Greek Orthodox Cathedral in Atlanta, GA this coming Sunday, April 18th.  He will serve for Divine Liturgy (Orthros at 8:15am, Divine Liturgy at 9:30am), and then will be giving a lecture at the Cathedral at 7:00pm that evening followed by a reception in Carlos Hall.

This is a true blessing and a huge honor for us to host His Eminence!  If you are in the area, I urge you to attend!  This is a once in a lifetime opportunity!

If you need further information, or directions, please feel free to call the Cathedral office at 404.633.5870.

Truly He is Risen!

[Alveus Lacuna]

Is he playing any other tour dates in the USA?

[GreekChef]

Is he playing any other tour dates in the USA?

Not that I am aware of.  He is coming here to conduct a retreat for the Clergy of the Atlanta Metropolis at the Diakonia Center, and His Eminence Metropolitan +ALEXIOS asked him to serve at the Cathedral and speak on Sunday night so that the people could hear him speak and benefit from his wisdom.

[LizaSymonenko]

Metropolitan KALLISTOS Ware visited the Detroit area a couple of years ago.  Gave a seminar in the evening.  The HUGE Antiochian church was filled to capacity.  Apparently, nobody had expected quite that many people to show up.

I loved listening to His Eminence.  He has a great voice to match his usually inspiring message.

...maybe it's the accent!   

[Layman Dan]

Oh there's a clergy retreat?  So THAT'S where my priest is.

[PeterTheAleut]

Is it customary to include a "+" in the bishop's name?  I thought this was something only bishops do when they sign letters and encyclicals.

[Irish Hermit]

Is it customary to include a "+" in the bishop's name?  I thought this was something only bishops do when they sign letters and encyclicals.

An archimandrite may also sign his name and prefix it with a cross mark

[PeterTheAleut]

Is it customary to include a "+" in the bishop's name?  I thought this was something only bishops do when they sign letters and encyclicals.

An archimandrite may also sign his name and prefix it with a cross mark

The point I'm trying to make is NOT about when the "+" is used and who uses it; it's about when the "+" is NOT used.  I'm not aware of any custom that encourages us to use the "+" when speaking of clergy in the second or third person.

[augustin717]

Is it customary to include a "+" in the bishop's name?  I thought this was something only bishops do when they sign letters and encyclicals.

An archimandrite may also sign his name and prefix it with a cross mark

The point I'm trying to make is NOT about when the "+" is used and who uses it; it's about when the "+" is NOT used.  I'm not aware of any custom that encourages us to use the "+" when speaking of clergy in the second or third person.

The cross is never used when writing the hierarchs names by anyone other than themselves. The use in all Orthodox countries I know about is to write "His Grace John of...", "His Eminence John of..." etc.
Adding a cross in front of their name and also capitalizing their whole name, I hate to say it, but seems to be a misguided and arch-zealous English speaking, mostly convert phenomenon.

[GabrieltheCelt]

Is it customary to include a "+" in the bishop's name?  I thought this was something only bishops do when they sign letters and encyclicals.

An archimandrite may also sign his name and prefix it with a cross mark

The point I'm trying to make is NOT about when the "+" is used and who uses it; it's about when the "+" is NOT used.  I'm not aware of any custom that encourages us to use the "+" when speaking of clergy in the second or third person.

The cross is never used when writing the hierarchs names by anyone other than themselves. The use in all Orthodox countries I know about is to write "His Grace John of...", "His Eminence John of..." etc.
Adding a cross in front of their name and also capitalizing their whole name, I hate to say it, but seems to be a misguided and arch-zealous English speaking, mostly convert phenomenon.

 My apologies to Presbytera for further derailing the topic (maybe we could split this off and create a new topic?), but I had always wondered why we use all capital letters with our hierarchs' names.  Also, could you tell us more about this practice, Augustin?  Mulţumesc, prietin.

[Irish Hermit]

Adding a cross in front of their name and also capitalizing their whole name, I hate to say it, but seems to be a misguided and arch-zealous English speaking, mostly convert phenomenon.

In the holy Church of Serbia the names of hierarchs are capitalised.   I imagine Their Graces would look askance at any impudent pup who used lower case.

[pensateomnia]

My apologies to Presbytera for further derailing the topic (maybe we could split this off and create a new topic?), but I had always wondered why we use all capital letters with our hierarchs' names.  Also, could you tell us more about this practice, Augustin?  Mulţumesc, prietin.

I too haven't seen many hierarch's names capitalized in Romanian sources. On the Patriarchal site, they usually refer to the Patriarch as "Blessed Father Patriarch Daniel" -- no caps. However, for whatever reason, they do capitalize his name on the official English version of the Patriarchal site, and in a couple places in the Romanian version. Kind of strange.

In Greek prose, Met. Kallistos would be "(The one) of Diokleia Mr. Kallistos." Never with all caps. In a more churchly setting, it would be "His Excellency of Diokleia Mr. Mr. Kallistos" -- with a double mister. Makes perfectly good sense in Greek, but not really in English.

Anyway, in modern Greek and early church sources, the emphasis is typically on the name of the See, not the name of the person, so the See tends to come first, except with very formal, full titles (e.g. at the top of an official letter or bio). The See comes first for signatures as well. Met. Kallistos would sign his name, in Greek, as "+Of Diokleia Kallistos" -- with a cross and not capitalized. That format has been the case going back as long as we have manuscripts. The cross is never used, except as a signature.

Not nearly as familiar with Slavic customs, but the official site of the Patriarchate of Moscow (in Russian, English, and Greek) does not capitalize hierarchs' names, nor does it put an + in front of them. The same is true for the site of the Patriarchate of Serbia, at least in English.

[Irish Hermit]

[
Not nearly as familiar with Slavic customs, but the official site of the Patriarchate of Moscow (in Russian, English, and Greek) does not capitalize hierarchs' names, nor does it put an + in front of them. The same is true for the site of the Patriarchate of Serbia, at least in English.

I had in mind official documents.  I have a couple of folders of such from my previous Serbian bishops and in all cases they use capitals for their name.

Here is a sample of this use of capitals from the 2010 Paschal Epistle from the Serbian bishops at
http://www.spc.rs/sr/vaskrsnja_poslanica_2010_godine

You'll find the same capitalisation of hierarchs' names in the English version of this text at
http://www.spc.rs/sr/patriarchal_paschal_encyclical_2010

Дано у Патријаршији Српској у Београду,
о Васкрсу 2010. године.

Ваши молитвеници пред Васкрслим Господом Христом:
Архиепископ пећки, Митрополит београдско-карловачки и
Патријарх српски ИРИНЕЈ
Митрополит загребачко-љубљански ЈОВАН
Митрополит црногорско-приморски АМФИЛОХИЈЕ
Митрополит либертивилско-чикашки ХРИСТОФОР
Митрополит дабробосански НИКОЛАЈ
Епископ шабачки ЛАВРЕНТИЈЕ
Епископ зворничко-тузлански ВАСИЛИЈЕ
Епископ сремски ВАСИЛИЈЕ
Епископ бањалучки ЈЕФРЕМ
Епископ будимски ЛУКИЈАН
Епископ канадски ГЕОРГИЈЕ
Епископ банатски НИКАНОР
Епископ новограчаничко-средњезападноамерички ЛОНГИН
Епископ источноамерички МИТРОФАН
Епископ жички ХРИЗОСТОМ
Епископ бачки ИРИНЕЈ
Епископ британско-скандинавски ДОСИТЕЈ
Епископ рашко-призренски АРТЕМИЈЕ
Епископ бихаћко-петровачки ХРИЗОСТОМ
Епископ осечко-пољски и барањски ЛУКИЈАН
Епископ средњоевропски КОНСТАНТИН
Епископ западноевропски ЛУКА
Епископ тимочки ЈУСТИН
Епископ врањски ПАХОМИЈЕ
Епископ шумадијски ЈОВАН
Епископ славонски САВА
Епископ браничевски ИГЊАТИЈЕ
Епископ милешевски ФИЛАРЕТ
Епископ далматински ФОТИЈЕ
Епископ будимљанско-никшићки ЈОАНИКИЈЕ
Епископ захумско-херцеговачки ГРИГОРИЈЕ
Епископ ваљевски МИЛУТИН
Епископ западноамерички МАКСИМ
Епископ горњокарловачки ГЕРАСИМ
Епископ аустралијско-новозеландски ИРИНЕЈ
Епископ умировљени захумско-херцеговачки АТАНАСИЈЕ,
Администратор Епархије рашко-призренске
Викарни Епископ хвостански АТАНАСИЈЕ
Викарни Епископ јегарски ПОРФИРИЈЕ
Викарни Епископ липљански ТЕОДОСИЈЕ
Викарни Епископ диоклијски ЈОВАН
Викарни Епископ моравички АНТОНИЈЕ

ОХРИДСКА АРХИЕПИСКОПИЈА:
Архиепископ охридски и Митрополит скопски ЈОВАН
Епископ полошко-кумановски ЈОАКИМ
Епископ брегалнички и мјестобљуститељ
Епархије битољске МАРКО
Викарни Епископ стобијски ДАВИД

[Michał Kalina]

Orthodox Bishop Asks That His Name Not Be Printed in All Caps

[Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)]

I had been using a cross to indicate that the hierarch has passed on. Is that a faux pas?

[PeterTheAleut]

I had been using a cross to indicate that the hierarch has passed on. Is that a faux pas?

It is if you don't explain your usage.

[PeterTheAleut]

Okay, now that I've thoroughly derailed this thread in order to make a point , can we please work to get it back on topic?  Thank you.

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