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Author Topic: are trophy hunting and bug collecting sins?  (Read 3963 times) Average Rating: 0
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erracht
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« on: January 15, 2004, 02:28:00 PM »

I'm reading an old book of examples of Orthopraxis and of sin. This book mentions that it is sinful to kill animals without need. Does that mean that making insect collections, swatting noisy flies etc. is sinful? Or hunting for trophies, making fur coats etc? Where does the Church draw the line on when we can kill an animal?
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« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2004, 04:25:59 PM »

Good grief erracht. Stop reading books like that!

I wish I was as serious about dealing with sin in my life as you are, truly. But those sorts of books are going to do your head in.

Have a chat with your priest instead and read the lives of the saints.
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« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2004, 04:38:51 PM »

Hmmm... if hunting for sport is a sin, a lot of saints, especially ones who belonged to noble or royal families, are in trouble.  

As for me, I'll stick to my roadkill bbq.
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« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2004, 04:41:35 PM »

if you use the animal for food or clothing it's ok as I understand it.

To kill a fly or insect is legit since they spread disease but I save them myself and take them outside.

Bug collecting would seem to be inhumane to me unless you let them die naturally first.  I wouldn't be dogmatic on that one.

Hunting for sport is sinful in my view.

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« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2004, 04:48:10 PM »

If by 'trophy hunting' and 'hunting for sport' you mean one wastes the animal's food and/or clothing value and only has his head stuffed and nailed to the living-room or lodge wall, I'd say that's a sin.

Wouldn't be that hard on bug collecting, as long as it doesn't needlessly waste life (which I guess would be something like killing five of one kind of bug when you're going to mount only one of them).

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As for me, I'll stick to my roadkill bbq.

Oooooooo-EE!
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« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2004, 04:55:46 PM »

Peter, you've hit the nail on the head!  I have enough trouble with the "larger" sins and keeping myself clean of them.  One must be truly holy already in order to be worrying about the sinful nature of a bug collection.

I agree with Serge re: hunting.

If you just kill for the head and that's it, that's wrong.  But I've never known a hunter who did not eat the meat of his kill, or even one who didn't share it with the neighbors.  One man who lived in my neighborhood growing up in Southwestern PA, where hunting can be classified as a religion and the first day of deer season can be likened to Pascha, would share almost all of his kill with the nearby homeless shelter.  By the weekend, the less fortunate were dining like kings on venison!
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« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2004, 05:00:14 PM »

Being a hunting/fishing nut, if one does not use the animal for food or donate it to someone who does use it, would be sinful.

Bug collecting is another matter, it is usually generated by some form of educational class.

Most road kill is contaminated from internal organ damage and is a no-no for human consumption.

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« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2004, 05:22:07 PM »

I'm not sure of how the Orthodox church views hunting for sport or swatting flies. Also consider when this was written. It was probably before modern grocery stores and modern sanitation! Smiley  

I can offer you my own unworthy opinion....

Hunting for sport- I simply don't get hunting for the fun.  Smearing oneself in deer scent and shooting down a deer simply for mounting its head upon the wall. IMHO, it's a waste and a disrespect to nature.
 
Although I don't like it, It seems to be more productive to kill a deer and use the whole animal. (meat, bones,hide etc) The few people I know who hunt, actually use the animal.  

Well you won't find me eating venison anytime soon.

Fur Coats- *snicker* If this was true, the Serbian church in america would crumble and burn. (Yes, I'm Serbian)

Insect collections- As long as the bug isn't some rare African butter fly that has been plucked from a sanctuary for the sake of boosting a private collection. I guess one would need to ask, is this self serving? Collecting for the purpose of educating people would be better. IMHO, photographs are much nicer.

Swatting flies- I've watched my own priest swat a fly during liturgy.  Our church is out in the middle of nowhere and attracts winged and furry critters from time to time. There are mousetraps in the basement and flypaper in the kitchen.

My 2 lincolns- hope I made sense.

In Christ,
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« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2004, 05:32:37 PM »

Anybody seen that movie Deer Hunter with Robert De Niro and Christopher Walken? I got that as a Christmas present...it's one of the best movies I've seen in a long time!
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« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2004, 05:33:26 PM »

Great movie, but it needed more cow bell!
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« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2004, 06:01:11 PM »

I look at it this way. I would feel guilty for trophy hunting, but not for bug collecting. Some people who collect bugs have a good reason for doing so (Scientific research), while there is no good reason to trophy hunt.

I don't see any problem with hunting in general though.
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« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2004, 07:12:03 PM »

I don't get it personally, but one of my friends is an avid hunters... a conscientious outdoorsman who use as much of the animal as possible. The way he describes it... long, physically uncomfortable hours spent crouching in the wilderness, often not caring whether he actually gets a deer, or not, sometimes skipping an easy shot, just because... solitude in the forest... sounds like it's a lot less sinful than watching tv.

The dark side of hunting would include trophies... have you heard about the big game ranches in Texas where "sportsmen" can pay a fee, walk out into a pen and shoot a wildebeest, or okapi, or whatever you want?

Fur coats? Yuck. What's with the desire to send the message... "I can afford it, and I'm worth it", never mind the fate of the animals. Goes for luxury cars and big, gas guzzling SUV's, too.

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« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2004, 12:52:27 AM »



The dark side of hunting would include trophies... have you heard about the big game ranches in Texas where "sportsmen" can pay a fee, walk out into a pen and shoot a wildebeest, or okapi, or whatever you want?


My uncles do this, it's like a couple thousand acre reserve where you pay a fee to hunt "exotic" game such as boar.
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« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2004, 01:02:21 AM »

Bug collecting?

You mean y'all don't eat 'em?

What a waste!

Nothing livens up a plate of grits like German cockroaches!  Grin
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« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2004, 02:00:55 AM »

The guys at Christendom College, where ByzantineClint goes to school, hunt all the time. Then again, there's not much else to do there! Wink
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« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2004, 05:34:11 AM »

I note that on elance there is a project to design a logo for a christian hunting club.

I'm not sure if they hunt christians or the membership is christian, it was rather ambiguous and may result in a variety of designs being submitted.
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« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2004, 06:34:02 AM »

Fur coats? Yuck. What's with the desire to send the message... "I can afford it, and I'm worth it", never mind the fate of the animals.

Consider that one of the largest fur trades is in Russia, where I think the message being sent is "I'd rather not freeze to death this Winter" Wink

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« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2004, 06:35:42 AM »

I'm not sure if they hunt christians or the membership is christian, it was rather ambiguous and may result in a variety of designs being submitted.

Their motto?

"Let God sort them out!"
 Grin

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« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2004, 10:28:08 AM »

 Grin

Lucky for me and my monitor that I wasn't sipping my coffee when I read that, Prodromos!

Ebor
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« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2004, 11:26:25 AM »

Consider that one of the largest fur trades is in Russia, where I think the message being sent is "I'd rather not freeze to death this Winter" Wink

John.

Good point. Almost everybody in Russia wears fur in the winter.

So did I when I lived there.

Fur keeps you warm.

I still have my big fur hat and use it, too, when the mercury dips low enough.
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« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2004, 11:29:20 AM »

The guys at Christendom College, where ByzantineClint goes to school, hunt all the time. Then again, there's not much else to do there! Wink

Man! I live only about 30 minutes west of Christendom! Nice school!

My daughter Anna was born in Front Royal (where Christendom is located).

But - hey! - besides hunting there's fishing and - better yet - cow tipping.  Grin
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« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2004, 12:08:59 PM »

WASTE is a sin.  Hunting?  If thats sinful, I know several priests who will burn in hell - because they LOVE to do it - and I love to eat the fruits of their labors! Smiley  mmmmmm - moose . . . .
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« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2004, 02:03:38 PM »

Good point. Almost everybody in Russia wears fur in the winter.

So did I when I lived there.

Fur keeps you warm.

I still have my big fur hat and use it, too, when the mercury dips low enough.

And is it Big Fur Hat weather today? Grin  That wind feels like there's nothing between us and the North Pole but a barb wire fence and that's blown down.

Ebor
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« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2004, 02:05:46 PM »

There's folk for whom, if they get a deer, that means a good bit of food for the winter that might otherwise be lean.

Ebor
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« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2004, 02:24:08 PM »

Great movie, but it needed more cow bell!

One of my favorite SNL skits of all time - BOC's Don't Fear the Reaper will never be the same again.
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« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2004, 02:46:10 PM »

I've got a fever...and the only prescription...is MORE COWBELL! Cheesy
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« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2004, 01:35:30 PM »

Quote
But - hey! - besides hunting there's fishing and - better yet - cow tipping.

Err pardon the latecoming here - and the total ignorance

but
what on earth is Cow tipping ?

This is mind boggling

After RI Cabinet I'm ready to give the US up. And we are supposed to speak the same language HuhHuh?
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« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2004, 03:34:40 PM »

Cow tipping is a game that fraternities and those in the know play on pledges and the ignorant.

The premis is - you get some "patsy," tell them you are going to go out to a farm and knock over sleeping cows - since everyone knows that cows sleep standing up. Smiley It's almost as fun as SNIPE hunting!!

http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cow_tipping
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« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2004, 10:12:34 PM »

From the link you posted, Br. Max:

Quote
It is unclear whether cow tipping is actually practiced anywhere, or whether anyone has ever successfully tipped a cow. Some people claim that cow tipping is nothing but an urban legend.

I can testify that cow tipping is practiced in the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia and that many people have successfully tipped over sleeping cows.

It is no "urban legend." It is a fun fact of rural life.

It is a sport best practiced while inebriated and while the farmers are also asleep.

My experience is limited to Holsteins.  Grin

Note: They do get back up and are not harmed in any way.
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« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2004, 10:29:54 PM »

If it is something that concerns you, I would suggest reading Orthodox Spirituality According to St. Silouan the Athonite by Harry Boosalis.  St. Silouan speaks about what we moderns would call "ecological responsibility."  St. Silouan has greatly affected my view on such things.  His views are an extension of the writings of St. Isaac the Syrian.  They're two of the most prominent Orthodox saints whose writing focuses on prayer for all of creation not just all of mankind (although mankind is certainly the most important.)

Fascinating stuff.  Of course, I'm also married to a vegetarian  Wink
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