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Author Topic: First Episcopal Assembly?  (Read 5724 times) Average Rating: 0
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ialmisry
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« on: April 12, 2010, 03:12:47 PM »

The Antiochian Archdiocese in Brazil has this announcement:
Quote
“Invitation

Next sunday, 18/04 at 10:15am, the Holy Mass will be celebrated by our Archbishop, Don Damaskinos, together with other Orthodox Archbishops of Latin America, from our Church and sister Churches, finalizing the first Latin-American Pan-Orthodox Congress (taking place in Brazil).

It will be an event in which the League of Orthodox Ladies will celebrate their patrons, the “Myrrh-bearing Women”. After the Liturgy, a cocktail party will be offered at the Archepiscopal hall, where the Archbishops and the ladies from the League will receive greetings. We count on the presence of everybody.”
http://www.catedralortodoxa.com.br/Cattexto.asp?Codigo=207

It is often asserted (by those usually in support of the status quo) that North America is not the only place on the Orthodox map. Has any other EA met already, or is this (unpublicized) event in Sao Paulo the first?

There is some question of who actually is going to attend, which also seems not to have been disseminated among the Faithful of Latin America.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2010, 03:15:04 PM by ialmisry » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2010, 03:25:00 PM »

Italy had one about three months ago and I suppose Germany also did.

On the site of the AP there are 4 from Antioch, 3 from Constantinople (including the Ukrainian) and 2 from Russia (including the ROCOR one) listed. As far as I know the only one, who are missed, are the two from Poland.

I used to think that Central America will be paired with the North one but Mexico Hierarchs are listed.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2010, 03:29:07 PM by mike » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2010, 03:30:42 PM »

According to http://www.orthodoxie.com/, several Bishops in Western Europe had a meeting on March 26 to finalize the plans for their first Assembly.
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« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2010, 03:33:38 PM »

Any news of anything from these meetings?
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« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2010, 03:35:47 PM »

Any news of anything from these meetings?

As I remember the only one statement from the Italy and Malta was a congratulations letter to Patriarch Ireneus.

edit:

Switzerland also met but they did not stated anything interesting too.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2010, 03:50:46 PM by mike » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2010, 05:42:39 PM »

I'm looking for an email to the curia of Metropolitan Athenagoras of Mexico.
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« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2010, 03:18:48 PM »

Polish Orthodox bishops excluded from the Episcopal Assembly:
Quote
According to the report published on the official website of the Patriarchate of Antioch,  archbishop Chrisostomos and bishop Ambrose of the Brazilian diocese of the Polish Autocephalous Orthodox Church were not invited to the Episcopal Assembly of Orthodox Bishops of Latin America which will take place next Sunday in an Antiochian cathedral in São Paulo. Archbishop Chrisostomos and bishop Ambrose are the only Orthodox bishops in the region, who won't be present at the meeting. 

The Episcopal Assemblies of Orthodox Bishops are supposed to coordinate the activities of all Orthodox jurisdictions in respective regions, and they are organized by the senior hierarch of the Church of Constantinople in the region, in this case, metropolitan Athenagoras of Mexico. 

Fr. Andrzej Kuzma, who was one of the representatives of the PAOC at the conference in Chambesy in June 2009, which aimed to increase the number of Episcopal congregations in the world, said that "the hierarchs of the Ecumenical Patriarchate in its own way in interpreting the 28th canon of the Council of Chalcedon have difficulty in recognizing the canonicity of our diocese in Brazil." Fr. Kuzma added that PAOC will seek to regulate this issue.

source: http://www.cerkiew.pl/index.php?id=968&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=12992&tx_ttnews[backPid]=419&cHash=d358668871
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« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2010, 03:39:12 PM »

I used to think that Central America will be paired with the North one but Mexico Hierarchs are listed.

Mexico is with North America but Central America and the Caribbean are with South America, hence Met. Athenagoras being head of one and only attending the other. There are several bishops who will be invited to multiple meetings because of the expanse of their jurisdiction.

Is the Polish Autonomous Orthodox Church (PAOC) the same thing as the Church of Poland which is under the leadership of Met. Sawas?
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« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2010, 03:42:33 PM »

Mexico is with North America but Central America and the Caribbean are with South America, hence Met. Athenagoras being head of one and only attending the other. There are several bishops who will be invited to multiple meetings because of the expanse of their jurisdiction.

Thanks.

Quote
Is the Polish Autonomous Orthodox Church (PAOC) the same thing as the Church of Poland which is under the leadership of Met. Sawas?

*Autocephalous - the very same.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2010, 03:42:46 PM by mike » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2010, 03:50:48 PM »

Polish Orthodox bishops excluded from the Episcopal Assembly:
Quote
According to the report published on the official website of the Patriarchate of Antioch,  archbishop Chrisostomos and bishop Ambrose of the Brazilian diocese of the Polish Autocephalous Orthodox Church were not invited to the Episcopal Assembly of Orthodox Bishops of Latin America which will take place next Sunday in an Antiochian cathedral in São Paulo. Archbishop Chrisostomos and bishop Ambrose are the only Orthodox bishops in the region, who won't be present at the meeting. 

The Episcopal Assemblies of Orthodox Bishops are supposed to coordinate the activities of all Orthodox jurisdictions in respective regions, and they are organized by the senior hierarch of the Church of Constantinople in the region, in this case, metropolitan Athenagoras of Mexico. 

Fr. Andrzej Kuzma, who was one of the representatives of the PAOC at the conference in Chambesy in June 2009, which aimed to increase the number of Episcopal congregations in the world, said that "the hierarchs of the Ecumenical Patriarchate in its own way in interpreting the 28th canon of the Council of Chalcedon have difficulty in recognizing the canonicity of our diocese in Brazil." Fr. Kuzma added that PAOC will seek to regulate this issue.

source: http://www.cerkiew.pl/index.php?id=968&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=12992&tx_ttnews[backPid]=419&cHash=d358668871

Is any further comment needed?
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« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2010, 05:00:50 PM »

Quote
Is the Polish Autonomous Orthodox Church (PAOC) the same thing as the Church of Poland which is under the leadership of Met. Sawas?
*Autocephalous - the very same.
Sorry about using the wrong A pronoun.

I am wondering if it is just a simple oversight. The name Polish Autocephalous Orthodox Church would make me think that they are not a canonical group since the common usage is just Church of Poland so there just might be confusion. Is Latin America the only place that Poland has churches outside of Poland?
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« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2010, 05:30:16 PM »

Is Latin America the only place that Poland has churches outside of Poland?

As for now - yes.

edit:


I am wondering if it is just a simple oversight.

I've tried to contact the Antiochian Cathedral where it will take place, the Greek curia in Mexico and the Greek curia in Buenos Aires. The Antiochians answered that it's organised by Metropolitan Athenagoras and they only offer the place. The Greeks have not answered yet.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2010, 05:56:22 PM by mike » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2010, 06:48:33 PM »

Is Latin America the only place that Poland has churches outside of Poland?

As for now - yes.

edit:


I am wondering if it is just a simple oversight.

I've tried to contact the Antiochian Cathedral where it will take place, the Greek curia in Mexico and the Greek curia in Buenos Aires. The Antiochians answered that it's organised by Metropolitan Athenagoras and they only offer the place. The Greeks have not answered yet.

I'm sorry please forgive my ignorance, but could you please explain to me what you mean by "curia"...??
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« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2010, 06:51:05 PM »

I'm sorry please forgive my ignorance, but could you please explain to me what you mean by "curia"...??

The Archbishop's office. I thought such a word exists in English.
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« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2010, 06:52:25 PM »

I'm sorry please forgive my ignorance, but could you please explain to me what you mean by "curia"...??

The Archbishop's office. I though such a word exists in English.

It does, but it is usually associated with the Vatican, and it usually has a bad (bureaucratic, detached, corrupt, etc.) connotation to it.

Diocesan Chancery is what you mean.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2010, 06:54:00 PM by ialmisry » Logged

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« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2010, 06:55:48 PM »

I'm sorry please forgive my ignorance, but could you please explain to me what you mean by "curia"...??
The Archbishop's office. I thought such a word exists in English.

In US English we leave that word for references to the RCC.
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« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2010, 07:01:22 PM »

Thanks Smiley
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« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2010, 11:18:59 AM »

Thanks Smiley
Yah Mike, usually the word "curia" means the curia at the Vatican, of the cardinals & etc.  That's why I was very confused.  Thank you all for the clarification.  Back to your normally scheduled programing....
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« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2010, 02:20:26 PM »

EP: We haven't omissioned Polish hierarchs on purpose:
Quote
In a response to the information about the omission of the hierarchy of the Brazilian diocese of the Polish Autocephalous Orthodox Church to the Episcopal Assembly of the Orthodox Bishops of South America, chancery of metropolitan Athenagoras of Mexico stated that it was not intentional. Father Peter DiLeo-Vulic explained that this was caused by a lack of accurate information about the Polish Orthodox diocese in Brazil.

Father DiLeo-Vulic stressed that metropolitan Athenagoras, who was responsible  for organizing the meeting, made every effort to ensure that all the bishops from South America learned about the meeting. He added that this situation highlights the need for these meetings, because the coexistence in the same territory of a dozen noncanonical and canonical Orthodox jurisdiction causes such a confusion.

source: http://www.cerkiew.pl/index.php?id=968&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=13000&tx_ttnews[backPid]=419&cHash=e10b7e080a

There is a link to the blog of one of the Polish Priests in Brazil with all the necessary contact info on the official website of the Greek Orthodox Diocese of Sao Paulo, so it's hard for me to believe that they knew nothing about the Polish Orthodox Hierarchs.
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« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2010, 02:40:19 PM »

There is a link to the blog of one of the Polish Priests in Brazil with all the necessary contact info on the official website of the Greek Orthodox Diocese of Sao Paulo, so it's hard for me to believe that they knew nothing about the Polish Orthodox Hierarchs.

I'm not aware of a "Greek Orthodox Diocese of Sao Paulo." Do you mean the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of Buenos Aires and South America, headed by His Eminence Metropolitan Tarasios? That diocese, and its web site, is not under the omophorion of His Eminence Metropolitan Athenagoras. I wouldn't read anything into it. It was an oversight.
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« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2010, 02:49:07 PM »

My mistake. I mean the Metr. Tarasios' Archdiocese's website. I know they are separate but I don't thin it's hard to call a fellow Greek Metropolitan and ask about it. Or to ask a Greek Priest in Rio, or the Russian ones, or the Antiochian one in a stauropigial Parish. If I, while living in Poland and speaking any Portuguese could contact them, I can't believe it was too hard to them.
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« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2010, 03:16:45 PM »

Someone on the ground in Brazil, a convert, has posted from that perspective:
Quote
Fabio L Leite says:
April 15, 2010 at 9:24 AM
I can add some information concerning the Brazilian Polish mission.

Orthodox history in Brazil is yet to be written or systematically studied. Most of it is still in hearsay mode. Fr. Pedro Siqueira, from the Serbian Church has made a study about it, but it is still to be published.

What we can know so far is that probably the Antiochian Church is the oldest jurisdiction in the country. I am working without sources here, but I would estimate it has been in Brazil since the 19th century. The only one, I think, that could, maybe, challenge that would be the Greek Church. Anyway, the Antiochian Church is far better organized and has more financial resources than any other. That is due, probably, to the sheer fact that Arab imigration in Brazil is much larger than from any other of the Orthodox nations. In fact, Lebanese/Syrian is the only ethnicity with “cradle” Orthodox that is big enough to appear in significant numbers of the population (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Brazil#Consequences ).

Truth be said, most ethnic parishes in big cities are welcoming to Brazilians. I, particularly, have never been mistreated in any of them. Nevertheless, considering the number of Orthodox in Brazil in the beginning of the 20th century was around 40 thousand when the population was around 20 million, and that according to the last census in 2001, the number of Orthodox in Brazil (including all jurisdictions and possibly the fake Orthodox churches) is a mere 50 thousand, whilst the population is around 190 million. Actually, if analysing the numbers in terms of proportions (40K/20M in early 20th century and 50K/190M in early 21st century) we can see that the representation of the Orthodox in Brazilian society has shrinked incredibly. We were 0,002% of the population a hundred years ago and today we are 0,00026% of the populatin. We are almost one hundred times smaller today. One can easily see that “mission” has never been in the agenda. Some few Brazilians would go to the churches, but just out of curiosity or because it was the local parish (“and it’s a kind of Catholic church isn’t it?”) or because they had studied about Orthodoxy.

In the 80s a group of searchers in Rio de Janeiro – RJ and Recife – PB, who had started in Perennialism, found out about the Orthodox Church and joined an Old Calendarist bishop from Portugal. They did start by what it seems to me as a step far larger than they could, because they styled themselves as the Orthodox Church of Brazil, Portugal and Spain. In time, the whole group, including the Portuguese bishop and their Iberic faithful sought canonicity in the Polish Orthodox Church and, thanks to God, were granted it. Unfortunately, after the death of the original bishop who had accepted them, the group elected a person to substitute him who was later found guilt of financial and ecclesiastical misconduct. This traumatizing event led to the split of the group. Some of the ones who were in Recife moved to the Serbian church, under Don Mitrophan of the Eastern Diocese of the Serbian Church in the US and the rest of the group remained in the Polish church. From both groups the grandioloquent self-style of being *the* Brazilian Orthodox Church was dropped understanding that this takes a very long time to occur. Now and then the idea is heard, but overral, from what I’ve seen personally in both groups, there is a humble acceptance that the current work is much more of seed planting than of boasting of already being a full new church.

Now, in this scenario, one can see that the Orthodox Church in Brazil is under great pressures and challenges. The traditional jurisdictions, although truly welcoming, are clearly not interested in missionary work besides the “fruits” that happen to fall on their yard. Actual farming is out of question for them, at least for now.

On the other hand, we have a group of convert natives who at fist hugely overstepped their strength, got a tough lesson in terms of ecclesiastical politics and decided to play very low profile since then. At the same time, their hearts and souls are devotely on the missionary side and aware of the urgent need of bringing the True Church to the native Brazilians, but, do not count with any support from the other jurisdictions which were already here. In fact, most of the faithful of the other jurisdictions don’t even dream that there is a group of Brazilians interested in missionary work and I suspect they would be quite flabbergasted at the very idea.

Unfortunately, due to the lack of Orthodox education, a great number are led to believe that Orthodoxy and the Romans are more or less the same thing and differences are only political. There is the church of the Greeks, the church of the Arabs, and, of course, the church of the Brazilians, which is the Roman church. What would be the point of trying to “convert” them if it is all the same just directed at differen societies? Double baptisms, double marriages, ecumenism that sometimes border cocelebration, the Holy Gifts given to anyone who enters the church, free-mason and/or rosicrucian priests and influent faithful, not to mention the all too well-known cases of misconduct, don’t help to educate the faithful on the identity of Orthodoxy and create an Orthodox phleroma that witness to the world the Truth of Christ.

So, it is of no surprise to me, that those who feel unconfortable with the possibility of union in American Orthodoxy would feel the same elsewhere . With an OCA in North-America, why risk having an OCB to the South of the Equator? In the long term, Brazil *could* come to where the US is now, and hopefuly beyond, if the Brazilians in the Serbian and Polish church had full legitimacy and support and the traditional jurisdictions threw at least some of their weight on missionary work. I don’t think this is a game of good and bad guys. All sides had their good things and mistakes.I am very grateful to the Antiochian Church, where I was chrismated and consider to be my “mother church”, to the Greek Church where I was so well received when I moved town and to the Russians and Ukrainians who have always treated me well when I visited them.

With just 50k Orthodox in Brazil, most of whom are so because of their ethnicity, and a population of 190 million, there is plenty of room for growth of the faith here and that without even threatening the status quo of the other religions. I am convinced that we could be at least 1% of the Brazilian population (bordering the 2 million faithful)in one generation if only, for example, the congress happening now conceded in those two things: traditional jurisdictions taking a more active role in missionary work, and full legitimacy and recognition were given to the Brazilians in the Serbian and Polish church.

In this case, I think Constantinople’s claim are part of the issue and not all of it. As I said, they are a very recent group, who joined Orthodoxy in the 80s. It is a very different case from the OCA and American Orthodoxy as a whole. For a group of recent converts to make a claim to initiate an entirely new jurisdiction is, in my opinion, a bit exagerated and overconfident. It was far too early for that.

But of course, I would like to see an active missionary work in Brazil with reverent respect both to the cultures and people who brought us Orthodoxy *and* to the positive aspects of Brazilian culture.

Not inviting the Polish and Serbian representatives seems to me as a loss of a rich contribution they could give in terms of experience, action and vision. Inviting them would be the same as officially engaging Brazlian society.

Again, in my opinion, from Brazil’s side, the assembly should count with the Bishops of canonical jurisdictions, with the clergy of the Serbian mission as legates of Don Mitrophan who is probably attending the American Assembly, and the clergy of Rio’s Antiochian Patriarchal Vicariate. Besides the many serious issues I am sure they are going to discuss, I think it could be in their agenda with profit:

Brazil’s culture, history and society are very different from the other countries in Latin-America. While they are Hispanic countries, Brazilian culture was born out of a Portuguese matrix. Historical developments were as different as those of England and France or any other two countries in the same continent of Europe for example. There are of course, some similitudes, since we are all New World countries, just like the US and Canada and still, that wouldn’t justify assuming these cultures and Latin-American countries could follow the same policies of an Ecclesiastical governing body. Brazil needs its own Synod (or council, whatever the authorities find appropriate).

Related to the above, various jurisdictions present in Brazil do not have local bishops. It is urgent to have Bishops living in Brazil for the Brazilian parishes. Even that would be just a temporary arrangement since Brazil alone is almost half the area of South-America. With most bishops in Argentina or in the US it is really difficult, if not impossible, to attend to the needs of the local faithful.

The creation of a Seminary with all the proper infrastructure for all Latin-America. The best place, in my opinion, would be Foz do Iguaçu, a city in the “Triple Border” of Brazil, Paraguay and Argentina, making it a central, accessible point to all South-America. This would require a massive effort of translations along the next ten years, but meanwhile, material in English could be used.

Monasteries. There are a few seeds of monasteries in Brazil, with no more than two monks in each. Real spiritual fathers and some monks have to be brought to serve as models and inspiration. Then local vocations will appear.

Relations with the Roman Catholics. For most people, Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism are too similar externally. There is no effort to clarify the differences and both Romans and Orthodox are left to believe they are the same thing or that differences are irrelevances cultivated by fanatics. This has to end. It does not mean attacking Roman Catholics, but simply speaking in love and truth.

Related to the above topic, syncretism, a spiritual vice in this culture, has to be therapeutically dealt with, be it syncretism with Roman Catholicism, with Esoteric sects, with Spiritism or with folk animist superstitions.

The fake orthodoxies. In the void of missionary work, various fake orthodox churches have appeared claiming subordination to real and fictitious jurisdictions. The spiritual and psychological harm they spread must be stopepd.

These are just some of the issues I think are important and could be discussed in an assembly.

—————————————–

And just to add some more bits to the information, here is a table I created with all the canonical jurisdictions currently present in Brazil:

Canonical Jurisdictions of the Orthodox Church in Brazil

**Patriarchate of Constantinople**

The Greek and Ukrainian churches, in Brazil, are under the Patriarchate of Constantinople. The Greek Church directly and the Ukrainian church through the Ukrainian Church in the US.

* South-American Greek-Orthodox Archdiocese of South-America
Metropolitan Don Tarásios
Located in Buenos Aires, Argentina

* Ukrainian Orthodox Eparchy of South-America
Archbishop Don Jeremiah
Located in Curitiba, PR – Brazil

**Patriarchate of Antioch**

*Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of São Paulo and all Brazil
Metropolitan Don Damaskinos
Located in São Paulo, SP – Brazil

*Anthiochian Patriarchal Vicariate of Rio de Janeiro
Responsible: Archimandrite Ignatius
Located in Rio de Janeiro, RJ – Brazil

The Patriarchal Vicariate is a cathedral independent from the Metropolitan Throne in São Paulo and directly subordinate to the Patriarch.

**Patriarchate of Moscow **

* Russian Orthodox Diocese of South-America
Bishop Don Platão
Located in Buenos Aires – Argentina

**ROCOR**

* ROCOR Diocese of South-America
Bishop Don João
Located in Buenos Aires – Argentina

Unfortunately, the ROCOR parishes in Brazil entered into schism in 2007 not accepting the communion with the Moscow Patriarchate. They joined a schismatic bishop and have consacrated “bishops” of their own, supported by the faithful who have outdated information concerning Russia and the MP and are sorrowfully kept that way. The MP has made moves to inform the local Russian immigrants and descedents but it will probably be a slow change of culture. Until then or until opening new (missionary?) parishes, ROCOR is without any representation in Brazil.

**Serbian Patriarchate**

* Serbian Orthodox Diocese of the East of the USA
Bishop Don Mitrophan
Located in Pensilvania, USA

Serbian Orthodox Mission in Brazil
Responsible: Archpriest Alexis
Located in Recife, PB – Brazil
http://www.igrejaservia.org/

**Polish Orthodox Church**

* Polish Orthodox Archdiocese of Brazil

Polish Orthodox Mission in Brazil
Archbishop Don Chrysostomos
Located in Rio de Janeiro, RJ – Brazil
http://ortodoxia-brasil.blogspot.com/

Again, the Serbian and Polish missions are the only ones who have taken an active missionary role and that have locals as the majority of their members.
http://www.aoiusa.org/blog/2010/04/the-sounds-of-silence/#comment-10615

Portion of post removed as per forum policy. http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,26522.0.html

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« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2010, 03:38:01 PM »

Did you not read the story Mike posted above? According to Met. Athenagoras, the Polish bishops weren't excluded on purpose, the implication being they will be included. A little fact-checking, not to mention Christian decorum, would be nice.
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« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2010, 03:44:08 PM »

Did you not read the story Mike posted above? According to Met. Athenagoras, the Polish bishops weren't excluded on purpose, the implication being they will be included. A little fact-checking, not to mention Christian decorum, would be nice.

I agree.  I can basically guarantee that Bishop Mitrofan can't/does't/won't be able to go to those meetings. PLUS I know that they've been talking for YEARS about giving S.A. their own bishop and giving B. Mitrofan a break.  SO...you never know what's in the mix. 
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« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2010, 03:44:59 PM »

Did you not read the story Mike posted above? According to Met. Athenagoras, the Polish bishops weren't excluded on purpose, the implication being they will be included. A little fact-checking, not to mention Christian decorum, would be nice.

I suppose there are neither black, nor white. The Greeks can have make more effort to check this out, more that just asking the Antiochian bishop several hundred kilometres away from the Polish parishes - they can have asked their Bishop or do some basic google research. The Polish hierarchs can have informed the Metr. Athenagoras about them and the Antiochian cathedral can have asked their fellow cathedral in the same country. There are no innocents.
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« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2010, 04:19:35 PM »

Post contents deleted as per forum policy.  Pravoslavbob.
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« Reply #26 on: April 15, 2010, 04:45:40 PM »

I just hope they have been invited even if to take part after the beginning of the activities.
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« Reply #27 on: April 15, 2010, 04:58:09 PM »

I just hope they have been invited even if to take part after the beginning of the activities.
Bem-vindo!
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« Reply #28 on: April 15, 2010, 04:59:40 PM »

Obrigado! laugh
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« Reply #29 on: April 15, 2010, 05:03:07 PM »

Nice to have you here.

edit: two reports from the official website of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of Buenos Aires mentioning the joint services with the Polish Orthodox clergy:

http://www.ecclesia.com.br/news/?p=3521
http://www.ecclesia.com.br/news/?p=78
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« Reply #30 on: April 15, 2010, 05:41:54 PM »

The blog of Fr. Marcos Pereira where you can find all the information about the Polish Orthodox Diocese of Brasil has page views read. I've replied Fr. Peter DiLeo-Vulic (and I sent him a link) 3 hours before. As for now there were no enters neither from Mexico nor from Puerto Rico where Fr. DiLeo-Vulic lives. Let's wait a few hours more and see whether they care.
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« Reply #31 on: April 16, 2010, 01:04:27 AM »

Quote
And just to add some more bits to the information, here is a table I created with all the canonical jurisdictions currently present in Brazil:

Canonical Jurisdictions of the Orthodox Church in Brazil

**Patriarchate of Constantinople**

The Greek and Ukrainian churches, in Brazil, are under the Patriarchate of Constantinople. The Greek Church directly and the Ukrainian church through the Ukrainian Church in the US.

* South-American Greek-Orthodox Archdiocese of South-America
Metropolitan Don Tarásios
Located in Buenos Aires, Argentina

...................................................................
Responsible: Archpriest Alexis
Located in Recife, PB – Brazil
http://www.igrejaservia.org/

**Polish Orthodox Church**

* Polish Orthodox Archdiocese of Brazil

Polish Orthodox Mission in Brazil
Archbishop Don Chrysostomos
Located in Rio de Janeiro, RJ – Brazil
http://ortodoxia-brasil.blogspot.com/
There are some parishes of the Romanian Patriarchate, in the South America, in Venezuela and Argentina, under the Romanian Orthodox Archdiocese in Americas. Under His Eminence NICOLAE CONDREA. Why he was not invited? Nobody cares about the Romanians?  Sad
There are 10.000 romanians in Argentina, 10.000-12.000 in Venezuela, 1 300-1 400 in Brazil and other verry smal communities in Peru and Colombia.
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« Reply #32 on: April 16, 2010, 08:54:57 AM »

CCTE,

I'm sorry. I listed only the jurisdictions that have parishes in Brazil. Unfortunately, there is no Romenian parish here so far, and unfortunately the two diplomatic sites on the net don't give much space to Orthodoxy.

http://www.consuladoromenia.com.br/index.php
http://www.cons-gen-romania-rio.com/

But it is a pitty that the Romenian bishops in Latin-America were not invited as well.
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« Reply #33 on: April 16, 2010, 10:26:58 AM »

Quote
And just to add some more bits to the information, here is a table I created with all the canonical jurisdictions currently present in Brazil:

Canonical Jurisdictions of the Orthodox Church in Brazil

**Patriarchate of Constantinople**

The Greek and Ukrainian churches, in Brazil, are under the Patriarchate of Constantinople. The Greek Church directly and the Ukrainian church through the Ukrainian Church in the US.

* South-American Greek-Orthodox Archdiocese of South-America
Metropolitan Don Tarásios
Located in Buenos Aires, Argentina

...................................................................
Responsible: Archpriest Alexis
Located in Recife, PB – Brazil
http://www.igrejaservia.org/

**Polish Orthodox Church**

* Polish Orthodox Archdiocese of Brazil

Polish Orthodox Mission in Brazil
Archbishop Don Chrysostomos
Located in Rio de Janeiro, RJ – Brazil
http://ortodoxia-brasil.blogspot.com/
There are some parishes of the Romanian Patriarchate, in the South America, in Venezuela and Argentina, under the Romanian Orthodox Archdiocese in Americas. Under His Eminence NICOLAE CONDREA. Why he was not invited? Nobody cares about the Romanians?  Sad
There are 10.000 romanians in Argentina, 10.000-12.000 in Venezuela, 1 300-1 400 in Brazil and other verry smal communities in Peru and Colombia.
If His Eminence has parishes in South America, he should have been invited.  When I see him next I will ask him about it.  If he hasn't visited Latin America, I can see, him not been resident in Latin America and thousands of miles away (and the cathedral only recently been set up in Chicago, and perhaps closer to Romania than South America), it being an honest oversight.  If not, the issue should be taken up. Given the recent appeal of the Holy Synod of Romania to "Romanian unity and dignity," I wouldn't be suprised if Bucharest doesn't bring it up, having signed Chambesy and all.
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« Reply #34 on: April 16, 2010, 11:56:23 AM »

I was contacted by Bishop Ambrose a few hours ago and he said they had not been invited and they wouldn't go there. I asked him to change their mind and go there even if they won't be invited at all.
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« Reply #35 on: April 16, 2010, 12:27:45 PM »

I think that would bring no result besides creating bitterness between the parts.

The way to go here is to inform the Polish Mother Church about what happened. Warsaw then must stand up and, with them, demand further clarifications, plus to include them in all next exchange of information and decisions.

As for the Romenian jurisdiction, it seems to me they are in a situation similar to the Serbian Church in Brazil. They have local parishes but their bishop is in the U.S. This means that their bishops are probably attending the North-American Assembly. The right and respectful thing to do would be to ask these bishops to appoint representatives from the local churches and send them to the Assembly to speak in their names.
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« Reply #36 on: April 16, 2010, 12:50:06 PM »

I've just received an another one message. Bishop Ambrose wrote that they won't just go there without the invitation, because "Bishops do not act like that". It was my idea and I still do not understand why it's not OK but I've never been a Bishop, so maybe I just don't know what it is like. Bishop Ambrose added that they will try to deal with it officially.

I'm sure at least a few Hierarchs of PAOC know about this but unfortunately they have many troubles in Poland too (Abp Miron's funeral).
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« Reply #37 on: April 16, 2010, 01:01:36 PM »

I think that would bring no result besides creating bitterness between the parts.

The way to go here is to inform the Polish Mother Church about what happened. Warsaw then must stand up and, with them, demand further clarifications, plus to include them in all next exchange of information and decisions.

As for the Romenian jurisdiction, it seems to me they are in a situation similar to the Serbian Church in Brazil. They have local parishes but their bishop is in the U.S. This means that their bishops are probably attending the North-American Assembly. The right and respectful thing to do would be to ask these bishops to appoint representatives from the local churches and send them to the Assembly to speak in their names.

According to Chambesy, they should be attending the South American Assembly as well.
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« Reply #38 on: April 16, 2010, 03:40:53 PM »

I start to wonder whether the commotion I've created is good or bad? What do you think?
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« Reply #39 on: April 16, 2010, 03:56:11 PM »

I'm sure it is good Michal. If nothing else, it exposed a very serious issue of lack of proper communication among the hierarchs. What we learn is at the very best, they didn't know who were all the canonical bishops in Latin-America. And the commotion has showed that this is not a lesser issue.

From now on, the Romanians, Serbians and Polish cannot be just "forgotten" from such assemblies and decisions. Of course, the tendency is to let the dust come down and go on as nothing had happened. That is where the commotion comes in to prevent it. It cannot be forgotten, it cannot go on without the proper recognition of these churches in Latin-America, they cannot be excluded.
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« Reply #40 on: April 16, 2010, 03:58:16 PM »

I'm sure it is good Michal. If nothing else, it exposed a very serious issue of lack of proper communication among the hierarchs. What we learn is at the very best, they didn't know who were all the canonical bishops in Latin-America. And the commotion has showed that this is not a lesser issue.

From now on, the Romanians, Serbians and Polish cannot be just "forgotten" from such assemblies and decisions. Of course, the tendency is to let the dust come down and go on as nothing had happened. That is where the commotion comes in to prevent it. It cannot be forgotten, it cannot go on without the proper recognition of these churches in Latin-America, they cannot be excluded.
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« Reply #41 on: April 16, 2010, 04:24:52 PM »

If the larger Orthodox groups ignore the existence of Polish or other Slavic Orthodox communities in Latin and South America, the Greek Catholics are there and will be beckoning their fellow countrymen to share in their cultural links.
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« Reply #42 on: April 16, 2010, 07:28:47 PM »

Did you not read the story Mike posted above? According to Met. Athenagoras, the Polish bishops weren't excluded on purpose, the implication being they will be included. A little fact-checking, not to mention Christian decorum, would be nice.

I agree.  I can basically guarantee that Bishop Mitrofan can't/does't/won't be able to go to those meetings. PLUS I know that they've been talking for YEARS about giving S.A. their own bishop and giving B. Mitrofan a break.  SO...you never know what's in the mix. 

**bump**  Not to nit-pic...but I will....Maybe the Serbs should be left out of this little conspiracy theory. 
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« Reply #43 on: April 18, 2010, 03:04:07 PM »

Quote
And just to add some more bits to the information, here is a table I created with all the canonical jurisdictions currently present in Brazil:

Canonical Jurisdictions of the Orthodox Church in Brazil

**Patriarchate of Constantinople**

The Greek and Ukrainian churches, in Brazil, are under the Patriarchate of Constantinople. The Greek Church directly and the Ukrainian church through the Ukrainian Church in the US.

* South-American Greek-Orthodox Archdiocese of South-America
Metropolitan Don Tarásios
Located in Buenos Aires, Argentina

...................................................................
Responsible: Archpriest Alexis
Located in Recife, PB – Brazil
http://www.igrejaservia.org/

**Polish Orthodox Church**

* Polish Orthodox Archdiocese of Brazil

Polish Orthodox Mission in Brazil
Archbishop Don Chrysostomos
Located in Rio de Janeiro, RJ – Brazil
http://ortodoxia-brasil.blogspot.com/
There are some parishes of the Romanian Patriarchate, in the South America, in Venezuela and Argentina, under the Romanian Orthodox Archdiocese in Americas. Under His Eminence NICOLAE CONDREA. Why he was not invited? Nobody cares about the Romanians?  Sad
There are 10.000 romanians in Argentina, 10.000-12.000 in Venezuela, 1 300-1 400 in Brazil and other verry smal communities in Peru and Colombia.
Hristos a inviat!

I stopped by the Cathedral.  HE+Nicolae was invited to the South America EA, but could not attend.  He sent his auxiliary bishop to Sao Paulo, the question about how it was going to be conducted, as the auxiliary only speaks English and Romanian, and the Latin Americans speak Spanish and Portuguese. HE Nicolae has stated that he is eager to see the results of today.
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« Reply #44 on: April 18, 2010, 05:19:01 PM »

For those with Facebook, you can see the first photos of the Latin-American Assembly here:

http://is.gd/byv4K


It is the photo album of my group "I Support Orthodox Missions in Brazil".
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