I am sad that we diverted attention from the original subject to prove to those who think that Islam is peaceful how wrong they are. Instead of praying for the martyred christians in persecuted islamic countries, some liberal (sadly christians) would come out and defend Islam and trash christianity.
I will respond to those claims because some non-arabic speaking people, who content themselves with the twisted and spinned translations of Islamic apologetics, propagate the same lies of muslims, rather than to research the truth hidden by Muslims from the WEST.
Here we go: (all quotes are from Schultz post)
The claims of Christianity as a religion of being the religion of peace and love are not suspect as far as I'm concerned
That's a contradiction. While you claim to be an evangelist, you still have doubts about christianity being a holy and peaceful religion. I would suggest that you try first convince yourself before you convince others.
And, while you are in the process of doing so, would you please give me any verses from the bible or quotes from the early Church fathers which supports violence and killing?
I can give you an arsenal of Quranic verses and Haddith which orders the muslims, the same muslims you are defending, to do the following:
1- Fight non-believers into submission and kill them, convert them into Islam by sword or make them pay tribute (with humilation) to the muslim forces.
2- Not to make a christian or a Jew a leader but he is labeled a "Zummi", a very humiliting term.
3- Non-muslim women are spoils of wars for muslims, their houses and property are for muslims, and their children are slaves for muslims.
4- Many other scandals and perverted teachings, like allowing homosexuality, adultry, child abuse, perverted sex, ........
Muslims literally put these commands of Allah into action when they conquered the world.
When you make such claims about christianity, please support your claims by
aspects from the doctrine of christianity. I ask you to go and read about Islam from its sources.
Indeed, I spend a great deal of my time trying to make my non-believing friends see this.
See what? That christianity is not peaceful? How does this fit in evangelism? Clarify please.
However, when one looks at the treatment of Christians by other Christians since the ever-popular Crusades, we see rife hypocrisy amongst those who claim to love their neighbor more than themselves
What you are discussing here is actions of kings, princes, and sometimes popes , but I am discussing the doctrines itself. You won't hear any excuses for the Crusades, but please, give your audience some credit and mention at least the atrocitites committed by the islamic armies in the conquest of Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Constatinopolis, and all these great christian cultures who were turned into islamic societies by the SWORD......
Regardless of what people may say, there is true hatred springing from an astonishing number of people. "You're not Orthodox enough! You're ecumenical! You're a damn heretic!"
What does this have to do with killing Copts in Egypt?
And, frankly, they have compelling points regarding the examples we as Christians oftentimes set. And I don't mean our own personal weaknesses, either. I'm talking about actions such as that one bishop we're discussing in another thread who said good Orthodox kids shouldn't go to school with Papists and Protestants
Are these compelling points in your opinion? I am not defending the bishop who said that, but do you put one off-remark to counterbalance hundred of aspects that orthodoxy is the right faith or that christianity has done so good to human kind? I fail again to see your point.
We, of course, see him as over-reacting, but how does that look to someone who sees Christianity as a religion of division and not peace and love? PRetty damning evidence, to say the least, especially since its coming from a "mainstream" bishop.
We hope that someday the body of Christ will be unified again, and we all pray for that, but what does this have to do with Islam and its corrupt teachings? You are defending Islam by trashing christianity, very strange approach.....
I know a little about Islam and from what I do know
Then please go educate yourself about Islam more, from the arabic resources, before you start defending this defiled religion. If you need sites which expose Islam from the arabic sources of the religion, let me know. But before you go on defending Islam, try to learn about it, for the sake of your family, that they might not be forced one day to change their faith to Islam. Frankly speaking, failing to see the dangers of Islam open the gate wide open for them to change the religious map in the West, through their high birth rate and showing the "peaceful" face of Islam until they grow their teeth. You will know the truth then, but it usually very late.
it teaches very much the same as the other two great monotheistic faiths
WHAT !!!!!! What does Islam have in common with christianity, sir? They deny the divinity of Christ, they deny the Trinity, Islam's God is a military God who finds it amusing to kill unbelievers and rape women, there is no salvation in Islam, there is actually no guarantee that you will be in HEAVEN at all (it is up to Allah's last minute decision)....
On the other hand, husbands can beat their wives (provided they don't break their bones
), they can marry their daughters from adultry
, they can marry a baby girl (a few months and up)
, they can kill infidels ( christians and Jews included) , among many others perverted teachings.
In islamic paradise, a man has a constant erection and has 70 virgin at his disposal, who gain their virginity instantly, the virgins have a one mile big "butt", homosexuality is allowed in islamic paradise......
Sorry for the elaboration, but such a remark as to draw any analogy between christianity and Islam is very uneducated and needed quick correction.
If you need evidence on the above mentioned, I will be more than happy to do so. Note that ARabic is my mother tongue, and I read from the islamic resources right away.
Sure, there are some whacky things in the Koran about the conversion of the unbeliever, but are there not some "whacky" things in our own Bible and in the Canons?
Whacky??? That's it? Killing our brothers with the SWORD of ISLAM is whacky? Killing about 2 millions Armenian in 1916 by muslim TURKS is just whacky? Having millions of martyrs killed in every islamic nation, specially from among the Copts, over a bloody history of the rule of Islam is just whacky?
Where, and in the Canons of which church, do you find anything which suggests the killings of non-christians?
Much like you and I, most Muslims just want to follow their religion and live in peace, worshiping God as they and we see fit
No, you are wrong. Muslims, when they don't know anything about Islam, are peaceful, or at least normal. The strange thing about Islam is, that the closer you get to know its doctrines, and the more zealous you want to follow it, it fills you with hate to everything else which is non-islamic. It is the doctrine of Islam to kill Jews (the Jews in particular are labeled Monkeys and Pigs in the Quran), to kill christians. BIN LADEN is actually a good muslims, a faithful one, because he committed himself to the teachings of Islam and realized them.
POLITICAL circumstances have made Islam the boogeyman, as they always have
No, sir. Political circumstances are pushing to cover up for the atrocities of Islam all over the world and to hide the corrupt teachings of violence against non-muslims in the very heart of Islamic doctrines. They use people like you to propagate their lies.
For all their supposed piety, I have no trouble believing that the Sultans of old expanded their empire not because of any edict of the Koran, but because they coveted POWER, an earthly power, much like the eventual monarchic tone of the Papacy was created to exercise an EARTHLY power (and I'm a Catholic!).
The POPE of ROME acted in defiance to the biblical truth about separating the religion from the state. This idea is not rejected in Islam, in fact, it is the core of Islam to be a state first where they apply the islamic rules. Again, I fail to understand how mistakes of Christians makes excuses for Islam.
How many Muslims are you acquainted with and how many do you truly know personally?
Thousands. I lived among them, I saw firsthand how many of my collegues changed from "peaceful" to "fanatics" when they dedicated their lives to the true Islam. I saw Islam in action and in control, and not the peaceful Islam version you see in the West.
Please go and read history. Read about Muhamed, how he appeased the infidels until he became powerful enough, and then slaughtered them. Read how he mastered to win christians and Jews by peace treaties, only to kill them after he used the peace to gain power. This appraoch is the model muslims are using in the WEST now.
YOU WILL KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT WHEN ISLAM BECOMES DOMINANT IN THE WEST. YOU WILL REALIZE YOUR MISTAKE, WHEN YOU SEE THAT THE SHEEP BECAME A WOLF. IT WILL BE TOO LATE, THOUGH......