Christianus
Member
 Offline
Faith: ¿esse an non esse Orthodoxus?
Posts: 312
|
 |
« on: March 31, 2010, 12:57:41 AM » |
|
are they?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Alveus Lacuna
|
|
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2010, 01:07:45 AM » |
|
Yep.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
samkim
Sr. Member
Offline
Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America
Posts: 735
|
|
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2010, 01:08:28 AM » |
|
LOL no.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
주 예수 그리스도 하느님의 아들이시여 저 이 죄인을 불쌍히 여기소서.
|
|
|
|
GabrieltheCelt
|
|
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2010, 01:14:01 AM » |
|
Depends on you're meaning. Stay with me for a second.  If you take religion as a means to connect with something greater than yourself, then yes, perhaps they are all the same. If you take religion as a means to connect with the Living God through theosis, then no, they are not the same at all. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Christianus
Member
Offline
Faith: ¿esse an non esse Orthodoxus?
Posts: 312
|
|
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2010, 01:19:46 AM » |
|
Depends on you're meaning. Stay with me for a second. If you take religion as a means to connect with something greater than yourself, then yes, perhaps they are all the same. If you take religion as a means to connect with the Living God through theosis, then no, they are not the same at all. greater than myself, by greater do you mean eternal? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Altar Server
Sr. Member
Offline
Faith: Orthodox Christian(as of 12/18/10)
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 682
Most Holy Theotokos Save Us!
|
|
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2010, 01:42:37 AM » |
|
To a Very Very Very Limited Extent Yes I suppose they are
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Through the Prayers of the Theotokos O Savior Save Us!
|
|
|
stanley123
Archon
Offline
Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Roman Catholic
Posts: 3,225
|
|
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2010, 01:46:18 AM » |
|
Different religions may have some things in common to a greater or lesser degree, but I don't think that they are precisely the same.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Alveus Lacuna
|
|
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2010, 01:48:41 AM » |
|
Just so everyone is clear, I was being completely sarcastic.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
GabrieltheCelt
|
|
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2010, 01:50:47 AM » |
|
Depends on you're meaning. Stay with me for a second. If you take religion as a means to connect with something greater than yourself, then yes, perhaps they are all the same. If you take religion as a means to connect with the Living God through theosis, then no, they are not the same at all. greater than myself, by greater do you mean eternal? No. 'Greater' as in the sense of belonging; a sense of community. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Christianus
Member
Offline
Faith: ¿esse an non esse Orthodoxus?
Posts: 312
|
|
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2010, 02:25:40 AM » |
|
oh and do all religions really lead to heaven, as some say?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Altar Server
Sr. Member
Offline
Faith: Orthodox Christian(as of 12/18/10)
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 682
Most Holy Theotokos Save Us!
|
|
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2010, 02:27:15 AM » |
|
NO!!! Absolutley Not  I hate when people say that then whats the point in religion at all? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Through the Prayers of the Theotokos O Savior Save Us!
|
|
|
Christianus
Member
Offline
Faith: ¿esse an non esse Orthodoxus?
Posts: 312
|
|
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2010, 02:28:16 AM » |
|
NO!!! Absolutley Not I hate when people say that then whats the point in religion at all? Could you explain to me why? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Altar Server
Sr. Member
Offline
Faith: Orthodox Christian(as of 12/18/10)
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 682
Most Holy Theotokos Save Us!
|
|
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2010, 02:29:22 AM » |
|
Why I hate when people say that or why all religions don't lead to heaven? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Through the Prayers of the Theotokos O Savior Save Us!
|
|
|
Christianus
Member
Offline
Faith: ¿esse an non esse Orthodoxus?
Posts: 312
|
|
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2010, 02:32:07 AM » |
|
Why I hate when people say that or why all religions don't lead to heaven? Both. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Gebre Menfes Kidus
|
|
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2010, 02:32:44 AM » |
|
All manmade religions are the same in that they are unable to lead men to God. Contrary to all manmade religions, the Orthodox Church is the divinely established institution through which God makes Himself available to man.
Selam
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: March 31, 2010, 02:35:58 AM by Gebre Menfes Kidus »
|
Logged
|
"Salvation is free, but not easy. It is completely dependent upon the grace of God, and yet we must work it out with fear and trembling. It is given to all, but only a few find it. We are saved only by His Cross, and yet not without taking up our own." +GMK+
|
|
|
|
Alveus Lacuna
|
|
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2010, 02:33:57 AM » |
|
oh and do all religions really lead to heaven, as some say? What is heaven? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Altar Server
Sr. Member
Offline
Faith: Orthodox Christian(as of 12/18/10)
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 682
Most Holy Theotokos Save Us!
|
|
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2010, 02:36:02 AM » |
|
All Religions don't lead to heaven because as our Lord said "no one comes to the Father Except through me" an "Unless you eat my Flesh and drink my Blood you shall not have life within you" so clearly Jesus did not teach that everybody goes to heaven not to mention that most people have heard aboout Jesus and ignore him anyway.
I hate when people say that all religions lead to heaven because if they do theres no reason to be a member of any certin religion at all.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Through the Prayers of the Theotokos O Savior Save Us!
|
|
|
|
Alveus Lacuna
|
|
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2010, 02:40:56 AM » |
|
I hate when people say that all religions lead to heaven because if they do there's no reason to be a member of any certain religion at all. Sure there is. In this schema, you'd still need a religion to get to "heaven." You wouldn't be able to do it without a religion, I suppose unless you started your own. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Nacho
Elder
Offline
Faith: EasternOrthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,381
The face of Corporate America
|
|
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2010, 02:45:11 AM » |
|
The one true religion that leads to those pearly gates? The correct answer would be the Mooorman's lol...  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world."--Mere Christianity
|
|
|
Christianus
Member
Offline
Faith: ¿esse an non esse Orthodoxus?
Posts: 312
|
|
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2010, 03:01:05 AM » |
|
The one true religion that leads to those pearly gates? The correct answer would be the Mooorman's lol... Reading ndes ( near death experiences), I've found that orthodoxy is the most accurate: seeing Jesus, being one with the light, inclusivism, God is the way the light and the truth, Heaven and hell being in one place, in the presence of God. |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: March 31, 2010, 03:01:18 AM by Christianus »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Altar Server
Sr. Member
Offline
Faith: Orthodox Christian(as of 12/18/10)
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 682
Most Holy Theotokos Save Us!
|
|
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2010, 03:04:56 AM » |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Through the Prayers of the Theotokos O Savior Save Us!
|
|
|
|
Gebre Menfes Kidus
|
|
« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2010, 03:15:46 AM » |
|
The one true religion that leads to those pearly gates? The correct answer would be the Mooorman's lol... Reading ndes ( near death experiences), I've found that orthodoxy is the most accurate: seeing Jesus, being one with the light, inclusivism, God is the way the light and the truth, Heaven and hell being in one place, in the presence of God. I would not assess spiritual truth by analyzing case studies of near death experiences. Selam |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"Salvation is free, but not easy. It is completely dependent upon the grace of God, and yet we must work it out with fear and trembling. It is given to all, but only a few find it. We are saved only by His Cross, and yet not without taking up our own." +GMK+
|
|
|
yochanan
Arch-laity of the Room of Supreme Awesomeness
Member
Offline
Faith: Eastern Orthodox (Catechumen)
Jurisdiction: OMHKSEA (Philippines)
Posts: 185
O majestic aurora, how seeming did He fashion you!
|
|
« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2010, 08:31:42 AM » |
|
All manmade religions are the same in that they are unable to lead men to God. Contrary to all manmade religions, the Orthodox Church is the divinely established institution through which God makes Himself available to man.
Selam
Does that include the Eastern Orthodox?  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us..." (Acts 15: 28)
|
|
|
|
Jetavan
|
|
« Reply #23 on: March 31, 2010, 10:27:14 AM » |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
I'm not a witch.
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
|
|
|
|
Jetavan
|
|
« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2010, 10:27:34 AM » |
|
oh and do all religions really lead to heaven, as some say?
No. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
I'm not a witch.
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
|
|
|
|
ytterbiumanalyst
|
|
« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2010, 12:49:36 PM » |
|
oh and do all religions really lead to heaven, as some say?
No religion leads to heaven, at least not as those who say such things claim. In the case of Orthodoxy, the adherent is led first to the Incarnation, then to the teachings of Jesus, then to the Cross, then to the Resurrection, and finally to the Ascension. In other words, we are led to live our lives as Jesus did. But never do we expect to sign on the dotted line and make a reservation. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens
|
|
|
|
Gebre Menfes Kidus
|
|
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2010, 04:46:33 PM » |
|
All manmade religions are the same in that they are unable to lead men to God. Contrary to all manmade religions, the Orthodox Church is the divinely established institution through which God makes Himself available to man.
Selam
Does that include the Eastern Orthodox? IMHO, YES! Selam |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"Salvation is free, but not easy. It is completely dependent upon the grace of God, and yet we must work it out with fear and trembling. It is given to all, but only a few find it. We are saved only by His Cross, and yet not without taking up our own." +GMK+
|
|
|
Nazarene
Sr. Member
Offline
Faith: Judaism
Jurisdiction: Messianic
Posts: 520
David ben Yessai
|
|
« Reply #27 on: March 31, 2010, 07:27:14 PM » |
|
oh and do all religions really lead to heaven, as some say?
To quote a Christian proverb: "You can go to Heaven God's way or you can go to Hell any way you please." So the answer is no. |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: March 31, 2010, 07:27:36 PM by Nazarene »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
yochanan
Arch-laity of the Room of Supreme Awesomeness
Member
Offline
Faith: Eastern Orthodox (Catechumen)
Jurisdiction: OMHKSEA (Philippines)
Posts: 185
O majestic aurora, how seeming did He fashion you!
|
|
« Reply #28 on: March 31, 2010, 07:58:52 PM » |
|
All manmade religions are the same in that they are unable to lead men to God. Contrary to all manmade religions, the Orthodox Church is the divinely established institution through which God makes Himself available to man.
Selam
Does that include the Eastern Orthodox? IMHO, YES! Selam Oh yeah! *singing* I'm going to heaven, I'm going to heaven! |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us..." (Acts 15: 28)
|
|
|
|
Gebre Menfes Kidus
|
|
« Reply #29 on: March 31, 2010, 10:00:36 PM » |
|
To quote a Christian proverb:
"You can go to Heaven God's way or you can go to Hell any way you please."
I love it! Selam |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"Salvation is free, but not easy. It is completely dependent upon the grace of God, and yet we must work it out with fear and trembling. It is given to all, but only a few find it. We are saved only by His Cross, and yet not without taking up our own." +GMK+
|
|
|
Feanor
Member
Offline
Faith: Catholic
Posts: 205
|
|
« Reply #30 on: April 07, 2010, 10:05:12 AM » |
|
All religions are just sociological constructions by which human beings relieve themselves of existential anxiety.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
ytterbiumanalyst
|
|
« Reply #31 on: April 07, 2010, 10:08:51 AM » |
|
All religions are just sociological constructions by which human beings relieve themselves of existential anxiety.
True, but a few actually introduce us to Christ, and that's the one really important function of any religion. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens
|
|
|
yochanan
Arch-laity of the Room of Supreme Awesomeness
Member
Offline
Faith: Eastern Orthodox (Catechumen)
Jurisdiction: OMHKSEA (Philippines)
Posts: 185
O majestic aurora, how seeming did He fashion you!
|
|
« Reply #32 on: April 07, 2010, 10:12:03 AM » |
|
All religions are just sociological constructions by which human beings relieve themselves of existential anxiety.
True, but a few actually introduce us to Christ, and that's the one really important function of any religion. Says who? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us..." (Acts 15: 28)
|
|
|
recent convert
Orthodox Chrisitan
High Elder
Offline
Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian (N.A.)
Posts: 1,645
|
|
« Reply #33 on: April 07, 2010, 10:22:07 AM » |
|
They are not the same but that does not mean that there is no hope for believers of other faiths based on the natural law St. Paul speaks of in Romans 2, the teaching of the Beatitudes of our Lord, the ex. of the good Samaritan etc.
I think C.S. Lewis in his book: The Abolition of Man presents this understanding of a God given innate understanding of right and wrong in human beings. The most dangerous break from this is the development man-made, intellectual ideologies which morph even further away from any natural bond that previously guided (however imperfectly because of a fallen world) human beings (like Marxism, Nazism, etc.). I do not have a thorough understanding of this solid book but I think I have the gist.
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: April 07, 2010, 10:27:42 AM by recent convert »
|
Logged
|
Antiochian OC N.A.
|
|
|
|
ialmisry
|
|
« Reply #34 on: April 07, 2010, 10:45:04 AM » |
|
All religions are just sociological constructions by which human beings relieve themselves of existential anxiety.
True, but a few actually introduce us to Christ, and that's the one really important function of any religion. Says who? Christ is risen! Says the Gospel. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
and both come out of your mouth
|
|
|
Heorhij
Hoplitarches
Offline
Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOA, for now, but my heart belongs to the Ukrainian Orthodox Church
Posts: 8,576
|
|
« Reply #35 on: April 07, 2010, 11:32:38 AM » |
|
He is risen indeed!
I am afraid we are back to the old discussion on the subject,"is Orthodoxy a religion."
I guess it is correct to say that "religion" is just a social construction, like Feanor said.
Then, of course, Orthodoxy is not a religion. So, if all religions are the same, Orthodoxy still is different.
About religions leading to heaven, - what Ytterbiumanalyst said.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Love never fails.
|
|
|
ignatius
Baptacathadox
High Elder
Offline
Faith: Roman Catholic > Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA - Diocese of the South
Posts: 1,689
My Son Aidan... :-)
|
|
« Reply #36 on: April 07, 2010, 01:36:03 PM » |
|
Religion is simply a 'Yoke' which one binds oneself to a belief or practice. Christianity is indeed a Religion and not all religions are the same.
Originally, our Lord pointed out a distinguishing feature of His Religion... 'My Yoke is light, My Way is Easy'... somewhere along the way we made it a lot more complicated.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
St Basil the Great (330-379 A.D.): “I think then that the one goal of all who are really and truly serving the Lord ought to be to bring back to union the churches who have at different times and in diverse manners divided from one another.”
|
|
|
|
Alveus Lacuna
|
|
« Reply #37 on: April 07, 2010, 01:49:21 PM » |
|
Originally, our Lord pointed out a distinguishing feature of His Religion... 'My Yoke is light, My Way is Easy'... somewhere along the way we made it a lot more complicated. Yes except that it's not "simple or easy" in the way our minds are accustomed to thinking about such terms. After all, "His Religion" got Him and the majority of His immediate followers killed. |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: April 07, 2010, 01:49:53 PM by Alveus Lacuna »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
ytterbiumanalyst
|
|
« Reply #38 on: April 07, 2010, 02:45:52 PM » |
|
Religion is simply a 'Yoke' which one binds oneself to a belief or practice. Christianity is indeed a Religion and not all religions are the same.
Originally, our Lord pointed out a distinguishing feature of His Religion... 'My Yoke is light, My Way is Easy'... somewhere along the way we made it a lot more complicated.
He never said His yoke was uncomplicated. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens
|
|
|
Feanor
Member
Offline
Faith: Catholic
Posts: 205
|
|
« Reply #39 on: April 07, 2010, 06:47:04 PM » |
|
Orthodoxy is a religion.
Evangelical Protestantism, however, is a relationship with Jesus.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Layman Dan
Jr. Member
Offline
Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
Posts: 26
|
|
« Reply #40 on: April 07, 2010, 07:08:23 PM » |
|
Obviously 2 or more contradictory beliefs can't all be true.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
John of the North
|
|
« Reply #41 on: April 07, 2010, 07:09:58 PM » |
|
Orthodoxy is a religion.
Evangelical Protestantism, however, is a relationship with Jesus.
Orthodoxy is not a religion. Religion is a neurobiological illness. Orthodoxy is the cure. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"Christianity is not a philosophy, not a doctrine, but life." - Elder Sophrony (Sakharov)
|
|
|
Heorhij
Hoplitarches
Offline
Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOA, for now, but my heart belongs to the Ukrainian Orthodox Church
Posts: 8,576
|
|
« Reply #42 on: April 07, 2010, 10:58:37 PM » |
|
Orthodoxy is a religion.
Evangelical Protestantism, however, is a relationship with Jesus.
Orthodoxy is not a religion. Religion is a neurobiological illness. Orthodoxy is the cure. Personally, I agree with this statement 100%, having been through a lot of stuff I have been through; but I am afraid that parroting this statement is perhaps one of the greatest disservices we can do to Orthodoxy. Just think of it, 99.9% or so of people who identify themselves as "Christians" in the USA and, largely, in the West can perhaps say, "Orthodoxy is a neurobiological disease (whose origins are ethnicity or propaganda of all those various ethnics), and Roman Catholicism/ Evangelical Protestantism/ Personal Relationship with Jesus Christ is the cure." |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Love never fails.
|
|
|
|
Alveus Lacuna
|
|
« Reply #43 on: April 07, 2010, 11:37:07 PM » |
|
Orthodoxy is a religion.
Evangelical Protestantism, however, is a relationship with Jesus. So true. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Christianus
Member
Offline
Faith: ¿esse an non esse Orthodoxus?
Posts: 312
|
|
« Reply #44 on: April 08, 2010, 12:16:41 AM » |
|
Orthodoxy is a religion.
Evangelical Protestantism, however, is a relationship with Jesus. So true. How could you have a relationship with Jesus, without the Eucharist? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
