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Author Topic: France to ban veil says Nicolas Sarkozy  (Read 2769 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: March 25, 2010, 02:47:48 PM »

Praise God, Europe may be saved from the darkness of Islamism yet!


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/7516643/France-to-ban-veil-says-Nicolas-Sarkozy.html



France to ban veil says Nicolas Sarkozy
Nicolas Sarkozy has said that France will ban the full Muslim veil.

The move would protect the dignity of women, the president added.

“The full veil is contrary to the dignity of women,” he said. “The response is to ban it. The Government will table a draft law prohibiting it.”
The president gave no further details during his address to the nation following a heavy defeat in regional elections for his ruling Union for a Popular Movement party.

Speaking from the Elysee Palace Mr Sarkozy gave no indication as to how an outright ban would be imposed and policed.

France is home to six million Muslims.




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« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2010, 03:32:56 PM »

Quebec is the only Canadian province that has directly addressed the same issues.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2010/03/24/quebec-reasonable-accommodation-law.html#ixzz0jDbY61zT
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« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2010, 03:49:31 PM »

Quebec is the only Canadian province that has directly addressed the same issues.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2010/03/24/quebec-reasonable-accommodation-law.html#ixzz0jDbY61zT


It has been interesting to watch the various Muslim groups bickering over it.  The Muslim Canadian Congress completely supports it and has been petitioning the federal government for an outright ban for some time now, while the Muslim Council of Montreal is against it.
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« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2010, 05:41:19 PM »

I would temper your enthusiasm. If the state has the power to dictate the banning of the veil which, whether we agree or not, is a dictate of some Muslim women's faith, would it not possess the same power to ban, say - the wearing of clerical garb by an Orthodox Bishop, presbyter or monastic?
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« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2010, 05:53:48 PM »

Thank God for the enlightenment of France, where women are free to kill their unborn children but they're not free to wear a veil.  Roll Eyes


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« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2010, 06:46:26 PM »

This is unfortunate. This is not something to be happy about, they are just decreasing the rights of people to follow their faith and gives victory to secularism. Like Islam or not, one shouldn't praise something like this. How will we feel when the rights of Christians in these countries are also infringed upon? The French government believes this decision protects the dignity of women but they will not give Muslim women the dignity of dressing how they wish. I believe a decision like this will only cause more uproar from the Muslim world.
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« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2010, 06:47:16 PM »

Thank God for the enlightenment of France, where women are free to kill their unborn children but they're not free to wear a veil.  Roll Eyes
But this thread is not about abortion.
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« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2010, 06:49:30 PM »

This is unfortunate. This is not something to be happy about, they are just decreasing the rights of people to follow their faith and gives victory to secularism. Like Islam or not, one shouldn't praise something like this. How will we feel when the rights of Christians in these countries are also infringed upon? The French government believes this decision protects the dignity of women but they will not give Muslim women the dignity of dressing how they wish. I believe a decision like this will only cause more uproar from the Muslim world.

Well said.


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« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2010, 06:55:43 PM »

I don't think the banning of the veil will make any dent in "saving Europe from the darkness of Islam". It just means that it won't be as visible to the public eye.

I think we should be wary of any infringement on the rights of any religion. In France, they also do not allow children to wear any symbols of faith, for example a cross or a prayer rope bracelet thingy.... I agree with podkarpatska, the next logical step would be banning the all black-robe-head-covering attire all together. What would stop them from saying that Orthodox nuns are being oppressed in the same manner. We would lose all monasteries (and possibly churches) in France. I don't believe this step is anti-Islam, but rather secular to its foundations. At the point where the government gains control over religion....it's not looking good.  
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« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2010, 08:20:28 PM »

This is a silly law, and like all laws prohibiting a particular religious act, completely in violation of the EU's principle of freedom of religion. When people are oppressed, we should not be surprised if they strike back at their oppressors.
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« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2010, 08:57:32 PM »

  Ah.. The French..  They have been a problem for a long time, sigh

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V7zbWNznbs&NR=1 
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« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2010, 08:59:49 PM »

This is just the darkness of secularism overshadowing the darkness of Islamism. Nothing to be excited about.
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« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2010, 09:32:00 PM »

This is a silly law, and like all laws prohibiting a particular religious act, completely in violation of the EU's principle of freedom of religion. When people are oppressed, we should not be surprised if they strike back at their oppressors.

Wow. You sound like me here. Wink


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« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2010, 09:48:38 PM »

This quote from a discussion I had with a member of another board on this very issue is on point:  "The history of France since the late 18th century was shaped by relations between the Catholic Church and the state. The Church was seen (quite rightly, too), as monarchist, reactionary and anti-democratic. Between the World Wars, the Church was so worried about communism that it threw its weight behind various neo-fascist as well as monarchist factions. After the fall of France, conservative Catholics--including quite a number of bishops--overwhelmingly backed the Vichy regime, which made an overt pitch for Catholic support by backing "faith, family, duty and country".

After the War, the piper had to be paid--not only the communists but also the Gaullists set out to limit the influence of the Church in French society by embedding secularism in the law--an objective in which they have succeeded all too well."
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« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2010, 10:04:13 PM »

This is a silly law, and like all laws prohibiting a particular religious act, completely in violation of the EU's principle of freedom of religion. When people are oppressed, we should not be surprised if they strike back at their oppressors.

Oppressed you say?  Not being able to wear some fabric on your head is ... oppressed?  Oh my!  Whatever shall we call not being able to practice our faith without harassment in Sa'udi Arabia, Iran, Egypt, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq?  What's a neat freedom of religion word we can apply to beheadings, jailings, stonings, acid washes, bombings and general discrimination altogether?   Do you have any idea of the concept of Dhimmitude?  Do you know what Shari'a law is?  Do you have any clue whatsoever, just an inkling, what will happen with an Islamic majority?  Before you naively respond, I highly suggest you check out a Qur'an and a book on fiqh, while also studying up on shari'a law.  A lot of these people will kill over a flippin' cartoon for Gods' sake!

And while we're on the subject of 'all laws prohibiting a particular religious act', you might wish to peruse a book on the world's major religions and their offshoots.  Without going into detail, I'm pretty darn happy that there are many religious acts that are prohibited but a few of the more tame religious acts that come to mind that warrant being banned would be polygamy and drug use (Rasta's want to use marijuana, while certain Native American tribes of the Southwest want to use Peyote).  Sorry to be such an oppressor.  
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« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2010, 10:35:00 PM »

This is a silly law, and like all laws prohibiting a particular religious act, completely in violation of the EU's principle of freedom of religion. When people are oppressed, we should not be surprised if they strike back at their oppressors.

Oppressed you say?  Not being able to wear some fabric on your head is ... oppressed?  Oh my!  Whatever shall we call not being able to practice our faith without harassment in Sa'udi Arabia, Iran, Egypt, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq?  What's a neat freedom of religion word we can apply to beheadings, jailings, stonings, acid washes, bombings and general discrimination altogether?   Do you have any idea of the concept of Dhimmitude?  Do you know what Shari'a law is?  Do you have any clue whatsoever, just an inkling, what will happen with an Islamic majority?  Before you naively respond, I highly suggest you check out a Qur'an and a book on fiqh, while also studying up on shari'a law.  A lot of these people will kill over a flippin' cartoon for Gods' sake!

And while we're on the subject of 'all laws prohibiting a particular religious act', you might wish to peruse a book on the world's major religions and their offshoots.  Without going into detail, I'm pretty darn happy that there are many religious acts that are prohibited but a few of the more tame religious acts that come to mind that warrant being banned would be polygamy and drug use (Rasta's want to use marijuana, while certain Native American tribes of the Southwest want to use Peyote).  Sorry to be such an oppressor.  

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« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2010, 10:45:45 PM »

IMHO, full scale secularism and Shari'a law are both oppressive.

Let women choose whether or not they want to wear a veil, not whether or not they want to murder their babies. Let people choose whether or not they want to use marijuana, not whether or not they want to sell pornography. Seems to me that common sense and human rights are victimized by both secularism and religious fundamentalism.


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« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2010, 10:55:24 PM »

The province of Quebec has just passed a new law regarding "Face Coverings:

"Quebec Will Require Bare Face for Service

Legislation addresses thorny issue of accommodating minorities
Last Updated: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 | 3:24 PM ET
Canadian Press

Naпma Atef Amed is one of a handful of Quebecers who wear a niqab for religious
reasons. She will have to remove it to get any kind of public service. (CBC)

Muslim women and others with concealing headwear will have to uncover their
faces when they deal with Quebec government services, under landmark legislation
tabled Wednesday.

In tabling the controversial bill, Quebec has delved into sensitive territory
where governments in Canada have largely avoided treading.

The bill says people obtaining — or delivering — services at places like the
provincial health or auto-insurance boards will need to do so with their faces
in plain view.


The legislation says people's face coverings will not be tolerated if they
hinder communication or visual identification. The traditional Muslim niqab
shows little more than a woman's eyes.

Quebec is drawing a line in defence of two principles, gender equality and
secular public institutions, Premier Jean Charest said at a news conference
Wednesday morning.

"This is a symbol of affirmation and respect — first of all for ourselves, and
also for those to whom we open our arms," Charest told reporters. "This is not
about making our home less welcoming, but about stressing the values that unite
us. ...

"An accommodation cannot be granted unless it respects the principle of equality
between men and women, and the religious neutrality of the state."

Fear to tread
While the debate over such identity issues has raged in Europe for years,
Canadian politicians have generally been reluctant to weigh in.

Charest's Liberal government has faced persistent criticism from those who say
it has done too little to draw up guidelines for accommodating minorities.

Quebec newspapers have been full of stories where people express outrage over
perceived religious excesses, and the opposition has clobbered the government in
the legislature over its supposed inaction.

The bill, tabled by Justice Minister Kathleen Weil, explicitly points out that
any provisions are subject to the guarantees of gender and religious equality
outlined in the federal Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

In Quebec, the debate over face coverings has consumed a tremendous amount of
attention for what amounts to a minuscule number of cases.

Of the more than 118,000 visitors to the health board's Montreal office in
2008-09 only 10 were niqab wearers who asked for special dispensation.

There were no such cases among the 28,000 visitors to the Quebec City service
centre over the same time period.



http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2010/03/24/quebec-reasonable-accommodati\
on-law.html#ixzz0j8THAmBJ


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« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2010, 11:31:59 PM »

I think it should depend on the type of veil. I don't see any reason to ban a woman from wearing a head scarf or  headcovering in general and in fact I think it is wrong and a violation of her rights. On the other hand, if the veil is such that it completely covers the whole head and face so that there is only a small slit for the eyes, then I think it is a problem. For example, suppose a woman demands to wear such a veil when taking her driver's license test and photo. The photo ID would not be too useful in such a case.
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« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2010, 12:14:29 AM »

I think it should depend on the type of veil. I don't see any reason to ban a woman from wearing a head scarf or  headcovering in general and in fact I think it is wrong and a violation of her rights. On the other hand, if the veil is such that it completely covers the whole head and face so that there is only a small slit for the eyes, then I think it is a problem. For example, suppose a woman demands to wear such a veil when taking her driver's license test and photo. The photo ID would not be too useful in such a case.

I agree with you.


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« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2010, 01:07:58 AM »

I think it should depend on the type of veil. I don't see any reason to ban a woman from wearing a head scarf or  headcovering in general and in fact I think it is wrong and a violation of her rights. On the other hand, if the veil is such that it completely covers the whole head and face so that there is only a small slit for the eyes, then I think it is a problem. For example, suppose a woman demands to wear such a veil when taking her driver's license test and photo. The photo ID would not be too useful in such a case.

I personally don't believe in rights, and I consider anything that can hinder identification to be a security risk. Beyond that, I am fine with headcoverings.
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« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2010, 01:14:23 AM »

This is unfortunate. This is not something to be happy about, they are just decreasing the rights of people to follow their faith and gives victory to secularism. Like Islam or not, one shouldn't praise something like this. How will we feel when the rights of Christians in these countries are also infringed upon? The French government believes this decision protects the dignity of women but they will not give Muslim women the dignity of dressing how they wish. I believe a decision like this will only cause more uproar from the Muslim world.
Well, my friend, this secularist nation of France can teach religious USA one lesson at least: in France the  feast days of the church are not working day by law: 2 days for Christmas, Easter Monday, Ascension Day, Pentecost Monday, Assumption day. I'm not sure about Epiphany and I'm too lazy to check right now.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2010, 01:24:50 AM by augustin717 » Logged
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« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2010, 01:19:33 AM »

I personally don't believe in rights, ...
That's interesting. A lot of people, including both Christians and non-Christians,  believed that Africans enslaved by the white European slavemasters in the USA did have a right to their liberty.
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« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2010, 01:36:38 AM »

I personally don't believe in rights, ...
That's interesting. A lot of people, including both Christians and non-Christians,  believed that Africans enslaved by the white European slavemasters in the USA did have a right to their liberty.

How did I go from "I don't believe in rights..." to "I believe in enslaving people!" I said nothing of the kind. For the record, I do not advocate or condone slavery. At the same time....

In the West, we think in terms of rights. Almost all of the ancient world worked without our concept of rights. People then, and some people now, believed in things we should or should not do—we should love others and we shouldn't steal, cheat, or murder—but then there was a queer shift to people thinking "I have an entitlement to this." "This is something the universe owes me." Now we tend to have a long list of things that we're entitled to (or we think God, or the universe, or someone "owes me"), and if someone violates our rights, boy do we get mad.

But in fact God owes none of the things we take for granted. Not even our lives. One woman with breast cancer responded to what the women's breast cancer support group was named ("Why me?"), and suggested there should be a Christian support group for women with breast cancer called "Why not me?"


http://jonathanscorner.com/no_rights/no_rights.html

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't think God or anyone else owes me anything.
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« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2010, 01:40:11 AM »

I personally don't believe in rights, ...
That's interesting. A lot of people, including both Christians and non-Christians,  believed that Africans enslaved by the white European slavemasters in the USA did have a right to their liberty.

How did I go from "I don't believe in rights..." to "I believe in enslaving people!" I said nothing of the kind. For the record, I do not advocate or condone slavery. At the same time....

In the West, we think in terms of rights. Almost all of the ancient world worked without our concept of rights. People then, and some people now, believed in things we should or should not do—we should love others and we shouldn't steal, cheat, or murder—but then there was a queer shift to people thinking "I have an entitlement to this." "This is something the universe owes me." Now we tend to have a long list of things that we're entitled to (or we think God, or the universe, or someone "owes me"), and if someone violates our rights, boy do we get mad.

But in fact God owes none of the things we take for granted. Not even our lives. One woman with breast cancer responded to what the women's breast cancer support group was named ("Why me?"), and suggested there should be a Christian support group for women with breast cancer called "Why not me?"


http://jonathanscorner.com/no_rights/no_rights.html

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't think God or anyone else owes me anything.

I tend to agree with you. Our concern should be righteousness, not rights. And where righteousness prevails, human rights are not violated.


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« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2010, 01:40:52 AM »

I personally don't believe in rights, ...
That's interesting. A lot of people, including both Christians and non-Christians,  believed that Africans enslaved by the white European slavemasters in the USA did have a right to their liberty.

How did I go from "I don't believe in rights..." to "I believe in enslaving people!" I said nothing of the kind. For the record, I do not advocate or condone slavery.
.
OK. You clarified what you meant by that.

When i saw that you said that you did not believe in rights, I immediately thought of the slave and his right to freedom.
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« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2010, 01:53:51 AM »

I personally don't believe in rights, ...
That's interesting. A lot of people, including both Christians and non-Christians,  believed that Africans enslaved by the white European slavemasters in the USA did have a right to their liberty.

How did I go from "I don't believe in rights..." to "I believe in enslaving people!" I said nothing of the kind. For the record, I do not advocate or condone slavery.
.
OK. You clarified what you meant by that.

When i saw that you said that you did not believe in rights, I immediately thought of the slave and his right to freedom.

Ostensibly, the slave has no right to freedom. I do believe in responsibility though, and believe those who are free have a responsibility to free those who are in slavery...but I find too often people act as if God/the Universe/their country owes them something. That's where I disagree. These women do not have a right to where the veil. I believe the state has a responsibility to respect their religion and beliefs where it does not hamper security to do so, and in return the citizens have responsibilities to the State.
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« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2010, 02:04:38 AM »

This is unfortunate. This is not something to be happy about, they are just decreasing the rights of people to follow their faith and gives victory to secularism. Like Islam or not, one shouldn't praise something like this. How will we feel when the rights of Christians in these countries are also infringed upon? The French government believes this decision protects the dignity of women but they will not give Muslim women the dignity of dressing how they wish. I believe a decision like this will only cause more uproar from the Muslim world.
Well, my friend, this secularist nation of France can teach religious USA one lesson at least: in France the  feast days of the church are not working day by law: 2 days for Christmas, Easter Monday, Ascension Day, Pentecost Monday, Assumption day. I'm not sure about Epiphany and I'm too lazy to check right now.

Sorry, but what does this have to do with my post? Just because they get those days off doesn't mean anything really. Many get Christmas off in the US but I wonder how many actual celebrate the actual feast of Christ rather than a feast of merchandise.

Also, talking about the evils of Islam is irrelevant to the topic. Do you think that this law will bring good? Muslims can get worked up over a cartoon for instance so how do you think many will react to laws being imposed that limits how they practice their religion. Sure a head covering can be seen as a small thing but it is a very important thing to many Muslim women.
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« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2010, 02:10:50 AM »

These women do not have a right to where the veil.

Ah, so are you ok if Muslim countries (or secular) pass laws that say that Christians don't have a right to wear a cross? In fact, Saudi Arabia has laws just like that. Christians don't have a right to wear a cross their according to their laws so if we support one country (France in this situation) for telling believers not to wear symbols of their faith and then condemn another one (Saudi Arabia) then is that hypocrisy?

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« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2010, 02:17:21 AM »

Quote
Sorry, but what does this have to do with my post? Just because they get those days off doesn't mean anything really
It does, actually. It means that "secularism" is not that easy to define (v. USA having exclusively republican holidays); it means that religion is still enshrined in French public life and consciousness (due to France's strong Catholic roots "la fille ainee de l'Eglise") in a way that would be impossible in America, because of its Puritan heritage.
So, I would say that USA is, at least, as secularist as France.
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« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2010, 02:22:15 AM »

So, I would say that USA is, at least, as secularist as France.

Well, I don't disagree with you.
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« Reply #31 on: March 26, 2010, 02:32:53 AM »

Ostensibly, the slave has no right to freedom. I do believe in responsibility though, and believe those who are free have a responsibility to free those who are in slavery...but I find too often people act as if God/the Universe/their country owes them something. That's where I disagree. These women do not have a right to where the veil. I believe the state has a responsibility to respect their religion and beliefs where it does not hamper security to do so, and in return the citizens have responsibilities to the State.
It may amount to the same thing as what you are talking about, although in different language, I am not sure. And I have to admit that the term rights has different meanings. In any case, I would argue that men have a right to life, the black African woman enslaved by the European male has a right to her liberty and as well Christians have the right to wear a cross.
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« Reply #32 on: March 26, 2010, 02:42:42 AM »

This is unfortunate. This is not something to be happy about, they are just decreasing the rights of people to follow their faith and gives victory to secularism. Like Islam or not, one shouldn't praise something like this. How will we feel when the rights of Christians in these countries are also infringed upon? The French government believes this decision protects the dignity of women but they will not give Muslim women the dignity of dressing how they wish. I believe a decision like this will only cause more uproar from the Muslim world.
Well, my friend, this secularist nation of France can teach religious USA one lesson at least: in France the feast days of the church are not working day by law: 2 days for Christmas, Easter Monday, Ascension Day, Pentecost Monday, Assumption day. I'm not sure about Epiphany and I'm too lazy to check right now.

That sounds so great.  Here in the U.S.A. we are so secularist it is unbelievable.  They even force most low level employees of convenience style stores to work on Christmas and Easter.  It's unbelievable.  I wish that we could be (or, at least respect) religion as much as other nations do.
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« Reply #33 on: March 26, 2010, 02:47:57 AM »

This quote from a discussion I had with a member of another board on this very issue is on point:  "The history of France since the late 18th century was shaped by relations between the Catholic Church and the state. The Church was seen (quite rightly, too), as monarchist, reactionary and anti-democratic. Between the World Wars, the Church was so worried about communism that it threw its weight behind various neo-fascist as well as monarchist factions. After the fall of France, conservative Catholics--including quite a number of bishops--overwhelmingly backed the Vichy regime, which made an overt pitch for Catholic support by backing "faith, family, duty and country".

After the War, the piper had to be paid--not only the communists but also the Gaullists set out to limit the influence of the Church in French society by embedding secularism in the law--an objective in which they have succeeded all too well."

Although controversial, at least Patriarch Sergius of Russia's rapprochement with the Bolsheviks saved the Russian people from developing the obsessive love/hate relationship with their governments as was experienced by the RC states of Western Europe and Latin America.  The ROC of the soviet era still got tarnished, but still came off as a friend of the people and society and not as the enemy of all human progress.  The sad fact that the RCC never really learned how to do this in their dealings with Westen nations (It always had to be "either/or" with them) is the reason why they are helpless to stop the secular onslaughthey now face.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2010, 02:48:49 AM by Robb » Logged

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« Reply #34 on: March 26, 2010, 02:55:22 AM »

The issue of "rights" is not as easy to understand as we may think. On the one hand, Moses demanded freedom for the Israelites; and he even demanded reparations when they were emancipated. But on the other hand, Our Lord emptied Himself of His rights and became obedient to death on the Cross. And we are called to have this same mind, the mind of Christ Jesus. [Philippians 2:5-8]

It seems to me that the Prophets and the Saints were very concerned about justice and rights for those who were oppressed, but they never demaded rights for themselves. Maybe that's the Christian approach we should have- seeking justice and rights for the oppressed while laying our own ostensible rights at the foot of the Cross.


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« Reply #35 on: March 26, 2010, 03:48:08 AM »

These women do not have a right to where the veil.

Ah, so are you ok if Muslim countries (or secular) pass laws that say that Christians don't have a right to wear a cross? In fact, Saudi Arabia has laws just like that. Christians don't have a right to wear a cross their according to their laws so if we support one country (France in this situation) for telling believers not to wear symbols of their faith and then condemn another one (Saudi Arabia) then is that hypocrisy?

"Orthodoxy has always been under terror, under persecutions, either the Turks, or the Tatars, or the great empires that surrounded us...it has always expected the worst! It is said that the Orthodox Church can not be Orthodox if it is not fought from all sides! It has always been fought and even this gave it life and forced it somehow to be vertical...[A period of peace] would weaken the spiritual attention of the faithful and the hierarchs....Vigilance, absolutely, otherwise it would not give saints! It gave saints when it was confronted with the Turks, the Tatars, and others!" - Fr. Ioanichie Balan

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« Reply #36 on: March 26, 2010, 04:22:42 AM »

Imagine if some polynesian island had not been colonized and christianized and now, at in the 21st century Christian westerners were finally starting to settle there as immigrants.  And this polynesian country, not being influenced much by the western world up until this point had maintained their historic mores about modesty and it was normal for women to go around topless.  And what if, as more and more shirt wearing western women came into their country, they decided to pass a law that says women may no longer wear shirts in public.

Or what if the same sort of situation happened among some indigenous tribe in Papua New Guinea and, after becoming an independent republic they passed a law that all men must have their buttocks exposed.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2010, 04:23:23 AM by GregoryLA » Logged
ytterbiumanalyst
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« Reply #37 on: March 26, 2010, 09:12:25 AM »

This is a silly law, and like all laws prohibiting a particular religious act, completely in violation of the EU's principle of freedom of religion. When people are oppressed, we should not be surprised if they strike back at their oppressors.
Wow. You sound like me here. Wink
Yes. On this issue I think we are quite in agreement.

This is a silly law, and like all laws prohibiting a particular religious act, completely in violation of the EU's principle of freedom of religion. When people are oppressed, we should not be surprised if they strike back at their oppressors.
Oppressed you say?  Not being able to wear some fabric on your head is ... oppressed?  Oh my!  Whatever shall we call not being able to practice our faith without harassment in Sa'udi Arabia, Iran, Egypt, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq?  What's a neat freedom of religion word we can apply to beheadings, jailings, stonings, acid washes, bombings and general discrimination altogether?
Religious oppression. What else would we call it?
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