Author Topic: Notes on Russian/Slavonic Grammar  (Read 1557 times)

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Offline вєликаго

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Notes on Russian/Slavonic Grammar
« on: June 09, 2010, 05:04:02 PM »

No. Not in Nominativus, anyway. And your nickname should be in Nominativus. We sign our names, "John," "Mary," "Vasiliy," etc., not "OF John," "OF Mary," "OF Vasiliy."  



My feelings are that you are using new, and, innovated Slavonic manuscripts -- All my manuscripts are Pre-Nikon. I will admit, however, that you may know your innovated Slavonic better then I know Slavonic -- unless I am mistaken altogether. 
« Last Edit: June 09, 2010, 05:05:49 PM by вєликаго »
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Offline Heorhij

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Re: Notes on Russian/Slavonic Grammar
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2010, 06:31:53 PM »

No. Not in Nominativus, anyway. And your nickname should be in Nominativus. We sign our names, "John," "Mary," "Vasiliy," etc., not "OF John," "OF Mary," "OF Vasiliy."  



My feelings are that you are using new, and, innovated Slavonic manuscripts -- All my manuscripts are Pre-Nikon. I will admit, however, that you may know your innovated Slavonic better then I know Slavonic -- unless I am mistaken altogether. 

You are mistaken altogether because you do not seem to understand what CASES are. There are seven cases in Old Church Slavonic (six in modern vernacular Russian). Names and nicknames should be used in the NOMINATIVE case ("вєликий" - or, even more appropriate if it refers to St. Basil the Great, "Bєликий," with the capital B). Using a nickname in a different case, other than nominative (in your profile, the genetive case is used, "вєлікАГО") - is simply nonsensical. It's like I am asking a man, "what is your name," and he says, 'belonging to John."
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Offline vamrat

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Re: Notes on Russian/Slavonic Grammar
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2010, 02:15:21 PM »

No. Not in Nominativus, anyway. And your nickname should be in Nominativus. We sign our names, "John," "Mary," "Vasiliy," etc., not "OF John," "OF Mary," "OF Vasiliy."  



My feelings are that you are using new, and, innovated Slavonic manuscripts -- All my manuscripts are Pre-Nikon. I will admit, however, that you may know your innovated Slavonic better then I know Slavonic -- unless I am mistaken altogether. 

You are mistaken altogether because you do not seem to understand what CASES are. There are seven cases in Old Church Slavonic (six in modern vernacular Russian). Names and nicknames should be used in the NOMINATIVE case ("вєликий" - or, even more appropriate if it refers to St. Basil the Great, "Bєликий," with the capital B). Using a nickname in a different case, other than nominative (in your profile, the genetive case is used, "вєлікАГО") - is simply nonsensical. It's like I am asking a man, "what is your name," and he says, 'belonging to John."

This is somewhat hard for English native speakers to grasp.  Most European languages use cases, but English generally does not, though there are some vestigial instances (you, your, they, them, their, etc.).   If вєликаго has not studied Latin or Modern Russian, or even German, this will not make sense to him.  Other languages may have similar cases, but I have not studied them and cannot speak authoritatively on them.

вєликаго - Basically your nickname is incorrect.  It means "of the great".  It sounds as discordant to Heorhij as "all your base are belong to us" would to us.
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Online ialmisry

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Re: Notes on Russian/Slavonic Grammar
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2010, 10:54:02 PM »

No. Not in Nominativus, anyway. And your nickname should be in Nominativus. We sign our names, "John," "Mary," "Vasiliy," etc., not "OF John," "OF Mary," "OF Vasiliy."  



My feelings are that you are using new, and, innovated Slavonic manuscripts -- All my manuscripts are Pre-Nikon. I will admit, however, that you may know your innovated Slavonic better then I know Slavonic -- unless I am mistaken altogether. 

You are mistaken altogether because you do not seem to understand what CASES are. There are seven cases in Old Church Slavonic (six in modern vernacular Russian). Names and nicknames should be used in the NOMINATIVE case ("вєликий" - or, even more appropriate if it refers to St. Basil the Great, "Bєликий," with the capital B). Using a nickname in a different case, other than nominative (in your profile, the genetive case is used, "вєлікАГО") - is simply nonsensical. It's like I am asking a man, "what is your name," and he says, 'belonging to John."

Don't know about the Slavs, but among the Egyptians, ancient and modern, it is possible. One such name in Coptic Bapnoudi has passed into Russian (via Greek Παφνούτιος) as Пафнутий.  It means "belonging to God."
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Offline Salpy

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Re: Notes on Russian/Slavonic Grammar
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2010, 11:13:35 PM »
This is what we are talking about?

http://www.alphadictionary.com/rusgrammar/adjectiv.html

Russian adjectives in the genitive case?

Wouldn't the proper translation be "The Great's?"

Offline Salpy

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Re: Notes on Russian/Slavonic Grammar
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2010, 11:16:54 PM »
If I understand this correctly, that would be like my username being "Salpy's."
« Last Edit: June 10, 2010, 11:18:10 PM by Salpy »

Offline Salpy

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Re: Notes on Russian/Slavonic Grammar
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2010, 11:44:04 PM »
I think the genitive case is the only case in English where nouns get marked ('s.)  Pronouns, as pointed out above, change much more according to case.  Adjectives, though, don't.  At least I don't think they do. 

Grammar is fun.   :)

Offline Salpy

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Re: Notes on Russian/Slavonic Grammar
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2010, 11:54:17 PM »
Cool.  A whole thread on case endings. 

Offline rakovsky

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Re: Notes on Russian/Slavonic Grammar
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2010, 04:33:03 AM »
Quote
If I understand this correctly, that would be like my username being "Salpy's."

This is what we are talking about?

http://www.alphadictionary.com/rusgrammar/adjectiv.html

Russian adjectives in the genitive case?

Wouldn't the proper translation be "The Great's?"

Salpy,

You are correct!  You get an A+.

Veliky should be his correct, in Russian "Bєликий". Church Slavic would be very similar, maybe slightly different letters, but basically the same idea.

Vekiago, you wrote:
Quote
вєликаго is the Old Church Slavonic used to refer to "Vasily the Great"!

Stashko says:
Quote
Serbs Use Великога Или  Велкагог When mentioning a Great Saint...It's the same, it seems For all the slavic peoples...

In Russian and Church slavic we say Vasiliy Veliky.

Maybe in Serbian they would say Vasiliy Velikago, although such a use of grammer in a slavic seems very odd to me, although I guess they kind do something weird.

After all, Bulgarian has the word "the" in its language- and puts it at the END of nouns!

Offline stashko

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Re: Notes on Russian/Slavonic Grammar
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2010, 08:43:04 AM »
It depends how one uses the word in a sentence....
We can say Veliki Svetitelj Vasilija...
Velikoga Svetitelja Vasilije.... ;D
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline rakovsky

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Re: Notes on Russian/Slavonic Grammar
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2010, 02:23:19 PM »
Of course it depends how the person's name is used in a sentence.

But if you just make a list of names with no sentence, do you use the genitive case?

For example, "the following saints are celebrated on this day:

1. Nicholas the Wonderworker

2. Vasily Veliky

3.  .....

And when people label their names on their mailboxes or doors in Serbia do they use the genitive?

Would anyone sign their name Vasiliy Velikago?

I really doubt it.


Here the person is signing their name as a username. Is it common for someone to sign it in genitive? I think not.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2010, 02:24:54 PM by rakovsky »

Offline stashko

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Re: Notes on Russian/Slavonic Grammar
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2010, 03:05:54 PM »
we should never mention a Holy one ,unless you use sveti or svetitej ...
Sveti Vasilija Veliki.... ;D
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Offline rakovsky

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Re: Notes on Russian/Slavonic Grammar
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2010, 03:16:43 PM »
there's your answer Вэликаго!

Your name is wrong in 3 languages. Russian, church slavic, AND serbian. You are thoroughly impeached

 :D :laugh: