Possible Orthodox Street Mission?

[Salpy]

xuxana -

Do you go here: http://www.orthodoxhawaii.org/ ?

no coz believe it or not, that parish is like a tiny room. and on top of that is a strip club.  

That actually could be quite a ministry for any priest who wanted the challenge of reaching out to people who accidently stroll in, confusing the church with the strip club.  It could be kind of like a mission.


This thread was split off from here:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,10042.new.html#new

[Punch]

xuxana -

Do you go here: http://www.orthodoxhawaii.org/ ?

no coz believe it or not, that parish is like a tiny room. and on top of that is a strip club.  

That actually could be quite a ministry for any priest who wanted the challenge of reaching out to people who accidently stroll in, confusing the church with the strip club.  It could be kind of like a mission.

Yeh, exactly what I was thinking.

[xuxana]

xuxana -

Do you go here: http://www.orthodoxhawaii.org/ ?

no coz believe it or not, that parish is like a tiny room. and on top of that is a strip club.  

That actually could be quite a ministry for any priest who wanted the challenge of reaching out to people who accidently stroll in, confusing the church with the strip club.  It could be kind of like a mission.

but... why would anybody want fornicators and alcoholics to walk in a holy place?  i would certainly not want to stand beside them.  perhaps it is me that needs to pray for tolerance but i see such things as distractions.

[LBK]

xuxana -

Do you go here: http://www.orthodoxhawaii.org/ ?

no coz believe it or not, that parish is like a tiny room. and on top of that is a strip club.  

That actually could be quite a ministry for any priest who wanted the challenge of reaching out to people who accidently stroll in, confusing the church with the strip club.  It could be kind of like a mission.

but... why would anybody want fornicators and alcoholics to walk in a holy place?  i would certainly not want to stand beside them.  perhaps it is me that needs to pray for tolerance but i see such things as distractions.

Heard of St Mary of Egypt, xuxana? 

[Alveus Lacuna]

but... why would anybody want fornicators and alcoholics to walk in a holy place?  i would certainly not want to stand beside them.  perhaps it is me that needs to pray for tolerance but i see such things as distractions.

And when the Pharisees saw it, they said to His disciples, “Why does your Teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?” When Jesus heard that, He said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice.’ For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”

[xuxana]

xuxana -

Do you go here: http://www.orthodoxhawaii.org/ ?

no coz believe it or not, that parish is like a tiny room. and on top of that is a strip club.  

That actually could be quite a ministry for any priest who wanted the challenge of reaching out to people who accidently stroll in, confusing the church with the strip club.  It could be kind of like a mission.

but... why would anybody want fornicators and alcoholics to walk in a holy place?  i would certainly not want to stand beside them.  perhaps it is me that needs to pray for tolerance but i see such things as distractions.

Heard of St Mary of Egypt, xuxana? 

oh yeah! we had her @ last weeks sunday liturgy!!! yes. i do remember.  she's the one holding  2 loaves of bread in her icon. ok, im sorry i was wrong.  yes... dirty ppl can get god's grace too.

[SolEX01]

Go figure out what this Scripture means: 'I'm after mercy, not religion.' I'm here to invite outsiders, not coddle insiders."

source

The author of The Message does not believe in organized religion because He places words in Christ's mouth saying that Christ desires mercy and not religion, any organized religion.  Plus, who are the insiders and who are the outsiders?  Is organized religion the insiders who are coddled?

If your GOA Church permits you to read The Message, which does not believe in organized religion and perceives organized religion as a group of coddled insiders, I have concerns about the Orthodox Christian witness in Hawaii.   

[PeterTheAleut]

xuxana -

Do you go here: http://www.orthodoxhawaii.org/ ?

no coz believe it or not, that parish is like a tiny room. and on top of that is a strip club.  

That actually could be quite a ministry for any priest who wanted the challenge of reaching out to people who accidently stroll in, confusing the church with the strip club.  It could be kind of like a mission.

but... why would anybody want fornicators and alcoholics to walk in a holy place?  i would certainly not want to stand beside them.  perhaps it is me that needs to pray for tolerance but i see such things as distractions.

Heard of St Mary of Egypt, xuxana? 

oh yeah! we had her @ last weeks sunday liturgy!!! yes. i do remember.  she's the one holding  2 loaves of bread in her icon. ok, im sorry i was wrong.  yes... dirty ppl can get god's grace too.

The Church was built for such as these whom you judge as "dirty" and "distractions".

[SolEX01]

oh yeah! we had her @ last weeks sunday liturgy!!! yes. i do remember.  she's the one holding  2 loaves of bread in her icon. ok, im sorry i was wrong.  yes... dirty ppl can get god's grace too.

What do you think of St. Mary of Egypt based on today's standards?   

I also notice that you don't like to answer questions.   

[xuxana]

oh yeah! we had her @ last weeks sunday liturgy!!! yes. i do remember.  she's the one holding  2 loaves of bread in her icon. ok, im sorry i was wrong.  yes... dirty ppl can get god's grace too.

What do you think of St. Mary of Egypt based on today's standards?   

I also notice that you don't like to answer questions.   

she'd be like a street hooker. but worse...coz she tried to solocit pigrims  stuff. got to go. its forfeast of the annunciation 2nite & my dad wants me to go.

toodles! ^_^

[SolEX01]

she'd be like a street .... but worse...coz she tried to solocit pigrims  stuff. got to go. its forfeast of the annunciation 2nite & my dad wants me to go.

Enjoy.   

[Alveus Lacuna]

she'd be like a street hooker. but worse...coz she tried to solocit pigrims  stuff.

Well, she didn't just try, she succeeded in seducing an entire boatload of pilgrims who did unspeakable things to her as a group. It's in the hagiography, folks.

[John of the North]

Go figure out what this Scripture means: 'I'm after mercy, not religion.' I'm here to invite outsiders, not coddle insiders."

source

The author of The Message does not believe in organized religion because He places words in Christ's mouth saying that Christ desires mercy and not religion, any organized religion.  Plus, who are the insiders and who are the outsiders?  Is organized religion the insiders who are coddled?

If your GOA Church permits you to read The Message, which does not believe in organized religion and perceives organized religion as a group of coddled insiders, I have concerns about the Orthodox Christian witness in Hawaii.   

Orthodoxy believes in organised religion?? That's news to me.

[GabrieltheCelt]

xuxana -

Do you go here: http://www.orthodoxhawaii.org/ ?

no coz believe it or not, that parish is like a tiny room. and on top of that is a strip club.  

That actually could be quite a ministry for any priest who wanted the challenge of reaching out to people who accidently stroll in, confusing the church with the strip club.  It could be kind of like a mission.

but... why would anybody want fornicators and alcoholics to walk in a holy place?  i would certainly not want to stand beside them.  perhaps it is me that needs to pray for tolerance but i see such things as distractions.

Heard of St Mary of Egypt, xuxana?  

oh yeah! we had her @ last weeks sunday liturgy!!! yes. i do remember.  she's the one holding  2 loaves of bread in her icon. ok, im sorry i was wrong.  yes... dirty ppl can get god's grace too.

All of us dirty 'ppl' thank you for letting us in your club.    Out of curiosity, do you know how to spell and incorporate punctuation and proper grammar?  You'll find your job prospects, and general standing in the community, will improve upon learning these things.  Not to put too fine a point on it. 

[SolEX01]

Go figure out what this Scripture means: 'I'm after mercy, not religion.' I'm here to invite outsiders, not coddle insiders."

source

The author of The Message does not believe in organized religion because He places words in Christ's mouth saying that Christ desires mercy and not religion, any organized religion.  Plus, who are the insiders and who are the outsiders?  Is organized religion the insiders who are coddled?

If your GOA Church permits you to read The Message, which does not believe in organized religion and perceives organized religion as a group of coddled insiders, I have concerns about the Orthodox Christian witness in Hawaii.   

Orthodoxy believes in organised religion?? That's news to me.

Some in the Protestant world view Orthodoxy as just one of many organized religions and write Bibles incorporating that belief system like The Message.

[John of the North]

Go figure out what this Scripture means: 'I'm after mercy, not religion.' I'm here to invite outsiders, not coddle insiders."

source

The author of The Message does not believe in organized religion because He places words in Christ's mouth saying that Christ desires mercy and not religion, any organized religion.  Plus, who are the insiders and who are the outsiders?  Is organized religion the insiders who are coddled?

If your GOA Church permits you to read The Message, which does not believe in organized religion and perceives organized religion as a group of coddled insiders, I have concerns about the Orthodox Christian witness in Hawaii.   

Orthodoxy believes in organised religion?? That's news to me.

Some in the Protestant world view Orthodoxy as just one of many organized religions and write Bibles incorporating that belief system like The Message.

But Orthodoxy is not a religion.

[SolEX01]

Go figure out what this Scripture means: 'I'm after mercy, not religion.' I'm here to invite outsiders, not coddle insiders."

source

The author of The Message does not believe in organized religion because He places words in Christ's mouth saying that Christ desires mercy and not religion, any organized religion.  Plus, who are the insiders and who are the outsiders?  Is organized religion the insiders who are coddled?

If your GOA Church permits you to read The Message, which does not believe in organized religion and perceives organized religion as a group of coddled insiders, I have concerns about the Orthodox Christian witness in Hawaii.   

Orthodoxy believes in organised religion?? That's news to me.

Some in the Protestant world view Orthodoxy as just one of many organized religions and write Bibles incorporating that belief system like The Message.

But Orthodoxy is not a religion.

Why are we having this discussion?   

[John of the North]

Go figure out what this Scripture means: 'I'm after mercy, not religion.' I'm here to invite outsiders, not coddle insiders."

source

The author of The Message does not believe in organized religion because He places words in Christ's mouth saying that Christ desires mercy and not religion, any organized religion.  Plus, who are the insiders and who are the outsiders?  Is organized religion the insiders who are coddled?

If your GOA Church permits you to read The Message, which does not believe in organized religion and perceives organized religion as a group of coddled insiders, I have concerns about the Orthodox Christian witness in Hawaii.   

Orthodoxy believes in organised religion?? That's news to me.

Some in the Protestant world view Orthodoxy as just one of many organized religions and write Bibles incorporating that belief system like The Message.

But Orthodoxy is not a religion.

Why are we having this discussion?   

You tell me. You are the one that introduced some random Bible translation from the Protestants.

[Gebre Menfes Kidus]

Perhaps this thread needs to be split off now? I just want to get back to what everyone looks like.


Selam

[xuxana]

Perhaps this thread needs to be split off now? I just want to get back to what everyone looks like.


Selam

agreed. i thought this was a pic thread? why r angry people posting out of nowhere? lolz!

lord have mercy.

[yochanan]

Go figure out what this Scripture means: 'I'm after mercy, not religion.' I'm here to invite outsiders, not coddle insiders."

source

The author of The Message does not believe in organized religion because He places words in Christ's mouth saying that Christ desires mercy and not religion, any organized religion.  Plus, who are the insiders and who are the outsiders?  Is organized religion the insiders who are coddled?

If your GOA Church permits you to read The Message, which does not believe in organized religion and perceives organized religion as a group of coddled insiders, I have concerns about the Orthodox Christian witness in Hawaii.   

Orthodoxy believes in organised religion?? That's news to me.

Some in the Protestant world view Orthodoxy as just one of many organized religions and write Bibles incorporating that belief system like The Message.

But Orthodoxy is not a religion.

Then what is it?  A club for True Christians?

[GregoryLA]

"I don't want to belong to any club that will accept people like me as a member."
-Groucho Marx

[SolEX01]

Go figure out what this Scripture means: 'I'm after mercy, not religion.' I'm here to invite outsiders, not coddle insiders."

source

The author of The Message does not believe in organized religion because He places words in Christ's mouth saying that Christ desires mercy and not religion, any organized religion.  Plus, who are the insiders and who are the outsiders?  Is organized religion the insiders who are coddled?

If your GOA Church permits you to read The Message, which does not believe in organized religion and perceives organized religion as a group of coddled insiders, I have concerns about the Orthodox Christian witness in Hawaii.   

Orthodoxy believes in organised religion?? That's news to me.

Some in the Protestant world view Orthodoxy as just one of many organized religions and write Bibles incorporating that belief system like The Message.

But Orthodoxy is not a religion.

Why are we having this discussion?   

You tell me. You are the one that introduced some random Bible translation from the Protestants.

Commentary was provided on verses from The Message cited by another poster.

[SolEX01]

agreed. i thought this was a pic thread? why r angry people posting out of nowhere? lolz!

lord have mercy.

Angry people?  

Edited for content

[Marc1152]

xuxana -

Do you go here: http://www.orthodoxhawaii.org/ ?

no coz believe it or not, that parish is like a tiny room. and on top of that is a strip club.  

That actually could be quite a ministry for any priest who wanted the challenge of reaching out to people who accidently stroll in, confusing the church with the strip club.  It could be kind of like a mission.

but... why would anybody want fornicators and alcoholics to walk in a holy place?  i would certainly not want to stand beside them.  perhaps it is me that needs to pray for tolerance but i see such things as distractions.

Yes or tax collectors, the poor any sort of sinner...They often smell.

[Punch]

Go figure out what this Scripture means: 'I'm after mercy, not religion.' I'm here to invite outsiders, not coddle insiders."

source

The author of The Message does not believe in organized religion because He places words in Christ's mouth saying that Christ desires mercy and not religion, any organized religion.  Plus, who are the insiders and who are the outsiders?  Is organized religion the insiders who are coddled?

If your GOA Church permits you to read The Message, which does not believe in organized religion and perceives organized religion as a group of coddled insiders, I have concerns about the Orthodox Christian witness in Hawaii.   

Orthodoxy believes in organised religion?? That's news to me.

Some in the Protestant world view Orthodoxy as just one of many organized religions and write Bibles incorporating that belief system like The Message.

But Orthodoxy is not a religion.

And certainly not very organized :-)

[Schultz]

Go figure out what this Scripture means: 'I'm after mercy, not religion.' I'm here to invite outsiders, not coddle insiders."

source

The author of The Message does not believe in organized religion because He places words in Christ's mouth saying that Christ desires mercy and not religion, any organized religion.  Plus, who are the insiders and who are the outsiders?  Is organized religion the insiders who are coddled?

If your GOA Church permits you to read The Message, which does not believe in organized religion and perceives organized religion as a group of coddled insiders, I have concerns about the Orthodox Christian witness in Hawaii.   

Orthodoxy believes in organised religion?? That's news to me.

Some in the Protestant world view Orthodoxy as just one of many organized religions and write Bibles incorporating that belief system like The Message.

But Orthodoxy is not a religion.

Then what is it?  A club for True Christians?

I believe it was Fr. Schmemmann of blessed memory who opined, "Religion is a disease and Orthodoxy is the cure."

Fr. Hopko also hates to use the word "religion" to describe Holy Orthodoxy, as he sees "religion" as Man's attempt to explain and commune with the Creator while Orthodoxy is God's revelation on how to glorify Him...or something like that.

Yes, it's a philosophical and oftentimes pedantic distinction, but a valid one, I think. 

[yochanan]

Go figure out what this Scripture means: 'I'm after mercy, not religion.' I'm here to invite outsiders, not coddle insiders."

source

The author of The Message does not believe in organized religion because He places words in Christ's mouth saying that Christ desires mercy and not religion, any organized religion.  Plus, who are the insiders and who are the outsiders?  Is organized religion the insiders who are coddled?

If your GOA Church permits you to read The Message, which does not believe in organized religion and perceives organized religion as a group of coddled insiders, I have concerns about the Orthodox Christian witness in Hawaii.   

Orthodoxy believes in organised religion?? That's news to me.

Some in the Protestant world view Orthodoxy as just one of many organized religions and write Bibles incorporating that belief system like The Message.

But Orthodoxy is not a religion.

Then what is it?  A club for True Christians?

I believe it was Fr. Schmemmann of blessed memory who opined, "Religion is a disease and Orthodoxy is the cure."

Fr. Hopko also hates to use the word "religion" to describe Holy Orthodoxy, as he sees "religion" as Man's attempt to explain and commune with the Creator while Orthodoxy is God's revelation on how to glorify Him...or something like that.

Yes, it's a philosophical and oftentimes pedantic distinction, but a valid one, I think. 

If it's not a religion then what is it?

[sohma_hatori]

Go figure out what this Scripture means: 'I'm after mercy, not religion.' I'm here to invite outsiders, not coddle insiders."

source

The author of The Message does not believe in organized religion because He places words in Christ's mouth saying that Christ desires mercy and not religion, any organized religion.  Plus, who are the insiders and who are the outsiders?  Is organized religion the insiders who are coddled?

If your GOA Church permits you to read The Message, which does not believe in organized religion and perceives organized religion as a group of coddled insiders, I have concerns about the Orthodox Christian witness in Hawaii.   

Orthodoxy believes in organised religion?? That's news to me.

Some in the Protestant world view Orthodoxy as just one of many organized religions and write Bibles incorporating that belief system like The Message.

But Orthodoxy is not a religion.

Then what is it?  A club for True Christians?

I believe it was Fr. Schmemmann of blessed memory who opined, "Religion is a disease and Orthodoxy is the cure."

Fr. Hopko also hates to use the word "religion" to describe Holy Orthodoxy, as he sees "religion" as Man's attempt to explain and commune with the Creator while Orthodoxy is God's revelation on how to glorify Him...or something like that.

Yes, it's a philosophical and oftentimes pedantic distinction, but a valid one, I think. 

If it's not a religion then what is it?

What is religion? 

[ozgeorge]

I believe it was Fr. Schmemmann of blessed memory who opined, "Religion is a disease and Orthodoxy is the cure."

Actually, it was Fr. John S. Romanides of blessed memory:
http://www.romanity.org/htm/rom.02.en.the_cure_of_the_neurobiological_sickness_of_rel.01.htm

[Rufus]

It all depends on what you mean by "religion." The problem is, most religions claim that they are not a religion. If a religious person is one who focuses on man's relationship with the Divine, then Christianity is most certainly a religion.

If religion refers to religious practices and ceremonies, etc., then Christianity is not a religion per se, but rather, religion is a part of Christianity. Indeed, could one be fully Christian without religion? Obviously, the Protestant answer is no.

I understand how "religion" can also be a neurobiological illness that excludes a true and living faith. I think it just depends on what we mean by "religion."

In Koine Greek, btw, there's several words that could translate to "religion":
eusebia = piety, living in a "religious fashion"
threskia = religion in the sense of worship (James 1:26-27)
deisidaimonia = fear of the gods, used twice in Acts, once refering to the Athenians out of the mouth of Paul, once refering to the Jews out of the mouth of a Roman, but still never used in a negative sense.

So, religion is fundamentally a good thing, according to scripture.

[yochanan]

It all depends on what you mean by "religion." The problem is, most religions claim that they are not a religion. If a religious person is one who focuses on man's relationship with the Divine, then Christianity is most certainly a religion.

If religion refers to religious practices and ceremonies, etc., then Christianity is not a religion per se, but rather, religion is a part of Christianity. Indeed, could one be fully Christian without religion? Obviously, the Protestant answer is no.

I understand how "religion" can also be a neurobiological illness that excludes a true and living faith. I think it just depends on what we mean by "religion."

In Koine Greek, btw, there's several words that could translate to "religion":
eusebia = piety, living in a "religious fashion"
threskia = religion in the sense of worship (James 1:26-27)
deisidaimonia = fear of the gods, used twice in Acts, once refering to the Athenians out of the mouth of Paul, once refering to the Jews out of the mouth of a Roman, but still never used in a negative sense.

So, religion is fundamentally a good thing, according to scripture.

But "religion does not save us" right? (That's what most Protestants say) 

That is true although it gives some kind of negative connotation to ritualistic groups (e.g. RC, EO, Judaism, Islam, etc...). Religion (in the good sense of the word) is necessary for our salvation, the religion I am talking about is the practice of the Sacraments, the Divine Liturgy (Mass) and the piety we have for these things -- these things and actions bring us closer to the Holy Trinity, these things were given by God to us in order that we may be closer to Him. But it is not these things that save us but our God who is mighty to save.

In other words, Orthodoxy has a religion but it also has parts of it that is not religion -- that is not mere piety or practice but a unity with the One above.

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