OrthodoxChristianity.net
October 25, 2014, 06:24:54 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Sabbath  (Read 3582 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Azul
Moderated
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Român Ortodox
Jurisdiction: Eastern Orthodox
Posts: 988



« on: March 24, 2010, 01:11:23 PM »

Is it true that the Ethiopian Orthodox Church used to keep the Sabbath till a few houndreds of years back?
Logged

Every formula of every religion has in this age of reason, to submit to the acid test of reason and universal assent.
Mahatma Gandhi
pensateomnia
Bibliophylax
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox Christian
Posts: 2,354


metron ariston


« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2010, 01:24:42 PM »

Don't know much about the practices today, but there definitely were areas of the Ethiopian Empire that observed the Sabbath, although the sources show plenty of internal Ethiopian fights over the practice.

The northern Axumites were very Semitized, so they kept the Sabbath and the Lord's Day for many centuries. Other monks objected to this practice, especially in the south, but in the 15th century it became common. However, the rituals were Christianized.

Ernst Hammerschmidt did a study of the Sabbath practices of Ethiopia. If you have access to a good library, it appeared in the Journal of Ethiopian Studies.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2010, 01:25:42 PM by pensateomnia » Logged

But for I am a man not textueel I wol noght telle of textes neuer a deel. (Chaucer, The Manciple's Tale, 1.131)
Alveus Lacuna
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,917



« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2010, 03:14:41 PM »

I thought that they still did.  Huh
Logged
Nazarene
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Judaism
Jurisdiction: Messianic
Posts: 520


David ben Yessai


« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2010, 03:50:19 PM »

I thought that they still did.  Huh

I thought so too, or maybe some of them still do? Maybe one of the Ethiopians here can confirm? What I do know is that they did observe the Sabbath at some point in history.
Logged
Salpy
Moderator
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Armenian Church
Posts: 12,726


Pray for the Christians of Iraq and Syria.


« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2010, 07:58:40 PM »

If you look at the life of St. Abuna Ewostatewos (Eustathius) of Ethiopia, you will see it talks about the establishment of Saturday as the Sabbath, along with Sunday, in the Ethiopian Church:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,10363.msg327421.html#msg327421

(post 61)

Toward the end, it says:
Quote
Later on, Emperor Zara Yakob in 1450 supervised the Council of Debre Mitmak in Shewa and finally resolved the conflict by accepting to observe Sabbath on Saturday and Sunday. Since then the Tewahido Church observes the two Sabbaths: Saturday as the Jewish Sabbath and Sunday as the Christian Sabbath.

I'm not sure, though, how this is applied in a practical manner today in Ethiopia.

See reply 6 by Deacon Amde in this thread about the Sabbath:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,4610.msg60452.html#msg60452
Logged

zoarthegleaner
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ROCOR
Posts: 398



« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2010, 01:34:34 PM »

What do you mean by Keep the Sabbath?

john

Logged

Courteous is my name,
and I have always aimed to live up to it.
Grace is also my name,
but when things go wrong
its Courteous whom I blame;
but its Grace who sees me through it.
Azul
Moderated
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Român Ortodox
Jurisdiction: Eastern Orthodox
Posts: 988



« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2010, 02:10:18 PM »

What do you mean by Keep the Sabbath?

john



The saturday sabbath.
Logged

Every formula of every religion has in this age of reason, to submit to the acid test of reason and universal assent.
Mahatma Gandhi
zoarthegleaner
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ROCOR
Posts: 398



« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2010, 08:16:38 PM »

Yes, but my question was how does one KEEP that weekly Sabbath day?

John
Logged

Courteous is my name,
and I have always aimed to live up to it.
Grace is also my name,
but when things go wrong
its Courteous whom I blame;
but its Grace who sees me through it.
Hiywot
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido
Posts: 149


« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2010, 04:04:03 AM »


I'm not sure, though, how this is applied in a practical manner today in Ethiopia.


Today, the church strictly observes both Sabbaths. The church programs and ceremonies are the same for both days. Many of the faithful also observe both Sabbaths. But off course there are those that do not strictly observe even Sunday.

Hiywot
Logged
Orthodox11
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,999


« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2010, 07:23:35 AM »

The Divine Liturgy should always be celebrated on both Saturday and Sunday, strict fasting is prohibited on both Saturday and Sunday (with the exception of Holy Saturday), etc. so even in the non-Ethiopian churches, the Sabbath is still honoured Liturgically.

What is unique to Ethiopia is the Sabbath being observed as a day of rest. Hiywot, is this something simply encouraged as a pious practice (i.e. making sure you have the day off to attend Liturgy and focus on prayer) or something mandatory?
Logged
Hiywot
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido
Posts: 149


« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2010, 08:21:27 AM »

It actually is mandatory.
Logged
Orthodox11
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,999


« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2010, 08:42:01 AM »

It actually is mandatory.

So how does the Ethiopian Church reconcile this with Christ's fulfilment of the Law and our freedom from it? I've been told that the Ethiopian traditions of circumcision and keeping kashrut are pious customs rather than law, in which case these can be reconciled with the traditional Christian view of Mosaic Law, but if this is something mandatory, how does the Church justify this practice?

Does the pre-Christian Ethiopian connections with Judaism mean that Ethiopians do not regard themselves as having been Gentiles before the coming of Christ, and that the Council of Jerusalem's decisions regarding Gentile Christians keeping the Law therefore does not apply to them?
Logged
Hiywot
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido
Posts: 149


« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2010, 10:46:42 AM »

Jesus Christ fulfilled the law but not destroyed it!!!
« Last Edit: March 26, 2010, 11:57:01 PM by Salpy » Logged
zoarthegleaner
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ROCOR
Posts: 398



« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2010, 12:24:47 PM »

A complete day of rest? 

So, no fires are started and no sticks are gathered?

John
Logged

Courteous is my name,
and I have always aimed to live up to it.
Grace is also my name,
but when things go wrong
its Courteous whom I blame;
but its Grace who sees me through it.
Salpy
Moderator
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Armenian Church
Posts: 12,726


Pray for the Christians of Iraq and Syria.


« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2010, 12:02:10 AM »

A complete day of rest? 

So, no fires are started and no sticks are gathered?

John

What do you mean by that?  Is that a verse from the Bible?  Do you mean to ask if the Sabbath is kept so strictly that even no cooking is done?

Maybe Hiywot can give us some detail about what it means to keep the Sabbath there.  I've always thought it just meant you don't go to work, but attend church instead.  Perhaps it means more, though?  Does it mean nothing is done around the house, not even cooking?
Logged

Alveus Lacuna
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,917



« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2010, 12:40:14 AM »

So how does the Ethiopian Church reconcile this with Christ's fulfilment of the Law and our freedom from it?

How can someone be "freed" from rest?
Logged
GregoryLA
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Moving toward Eastern Orthodoxy
Jurisdiction: Western Japan
Posts: 377



« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2010, 01:17:20 AM »

So how does the Ethiopian Church reconcile this with Christ's fulfilment of the Law and our freedom from it?

How can someone be "freed" from rest?

Free to not rest if they don't want to?
Logged
Rafa999
Warned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic
Jurisdiction: Latin Rite
Posts: 1,600


« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2010, 01:24:24 AM »

A complete day of rest?  

So, no fires are started and no sticks are gathered?

John

What do you mean by that?  Is that a verse from the Bible?  Do you mean to ask if the Sabbath is kept so strictly that even no cooking is done?

Maybe Hiywot can give us some detail about what it means to keep the Sabbath there.  I've always thought it just meant you don't go to work, but attend church instead.  Perhaps it means more, though?  Does it mean nothing is done around the house, not even cooking?

It is prohibited from working in any form. This includes stoking a fire, or traveling. The Assyrians 100 years ago had some strict rules on this by the way. Preservation of life is one exception.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2010, 01:25:17 AM by Rafa999 » Logged

I am NOT a representative of the ACOE. Ignore my posts
Orthodox11
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,999


« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2010, 05:14:27 AM »

How can someone be "freed" from rest?

In the Old Testament a man received the death penalty for daring to collect firewood on the Sabbath. From what I understand, Christ freed us from these aspects of the Law, having fulfilled the Law perfectly Himself. So I'm trying to understand why Ethiopian Sabbath observance is an exception. Is the law concerning work on the Sabbath distinct from all the other laws in the Torah? If so, why, and why are they alone in observing it? Are the Ethiopians considered a Jewish people, and therefore not included in the Apostolic decisions laid out in Acts 20? If so, what about converts to the Ethiopian Church?
Logged
Layman Dan
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
Posts: 26


« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2010, 07:47:27 AM »

There is a community in Ethiopia of recognized Jews called Falasha who are allowed to emigrate to Israel.  They have kept certain Jewish customs over the centuries and are supposedly a lost tribe or something.  Some of these Ethiopian Jews converted to Christianity.  This could be where some Judaic customs practiced in Ethiopian Christianity come from but I'm not certain.
Logged
Hiywot
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido
Posts: 149


« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2010, 03:35:21 AM »

A complete day of rest? 

So, no fires are started and no sticks are gathered?

John

What do you mean by that?  Is that a verse from the Bible?  Do you mean to ask if the Sabbath is kept so strictly that even no cooking is done?

Maybe Hiywot can give us some detail about what it means to keep the Sabbath there.  I've always thought it just meant you don't go to work, but attend church instead.  Perhaps it means more, though?  Does it mean nothing is done around the house, not even cooking?

Yes, our most pious members keep the Sabbath very strictly. They prepare everything that is used for cooking and for other household purposes on Friday afternoon. But cooking is done on Sabbath. They don’t travel on Sabbath. They don’t go to the market and don’t do any sort of hard work on this day. They dedicate the day for worshipping God only. This strict observance is also a rule in almost all of our monasteries. But as you can imagine, nowadays, the generation is not taking this seriously. We are not as strict as our fathers and forefathers.

Hiywot
Logged
Hiywot
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido
Posts: 149


« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2010, 11:19:17 AM »

How can someone be "freed" from rest?

In the Old Testament a man received the death penalty for daring to collect firewood on the Sabbath. From what I understand, Christ freed us from these aspects of the Law, having fulfilled the Law perfectly Himself. So I'm trying to understand why Ethiopian Sabbath observance is an exception. Is the law concerning work on the Sabbath distinct from all the other laws in the Torah? If so, why, and why are they alone in observing it? Are the Ethiopians considered a Jewish people, and therefore not included in the Apostolic decisions laid out in Acts 20? If so, what about converts to the Ethiopian Church?

My dear, In none of the apostolic councils were the ten commandments erased or modified!!! In none at all!!!

Logged
Orthodox11
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,999


« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2010, 12:00:16 PM »

My dear, In none of the apostolic councils were the ten commandments erased or modified!!! In none at all!!!

The Council of Jerusalem:
"Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood." - Acts 15:20
Logged
Hiywot
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido
Posts: 149


« Reply #23 on: March 31, 2010, 04:32:09 AM »

Orthodox11,

Do you think that this verse is saying that if you are a Gentile, you are only required to do four things in your walk with God? I don’t think any Christian truly believes this! Does this verse really mean that Gentiles can murder, steal, bear false witness, honor not their mother and father, covet their neighbors’ goods, or take the Lord's name in vain? Of course not!!!

The truth is that this Scripture is talking about new, immature, idol worshipping Gentile believers in Jesus Christ who are just turning to God. Paul and the Counsel expected the Gentiles to catch on to the rest of God’s instruction after they get stronger through faith. It is not saying that they shouldn't walk according to God’s laws. The verse in question is communicating that it was not necessary to be totally Torah observant before one could be saved.

My friend, we don’t need to quote scriptures to learn that there are many ethical and ritual laws of the Torah that are irrelevant today. The Jews themselves have omitted certain laws without the requirement of any sort of counsel, like the one you quoted, and that was convened to resolve the dispute around circumcision. But the Ten Commandments that were written by “the fingers of God” on the two tablets of the Ark of the Covenant remain relevant.

Jesus Christ did not come to earth to nullify or make obsolete the Ten Commandments. Rather, He magnified them and made them honorable by illustrating in His daily life how to perfectly keep them to their full spiritual intent. This was true even of the Sabbath Commandment. Christ's custom was to study and teach from the Bible on the Sabbath day. He also performed works of service for others on the Sabbath. Christ realized that devoting the Sabbath day every week to the worship of God is still beneficial to humans.

Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy!!

Hiywot
Logged
Orthodox11
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,999


« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2010, 08:02:14 AM »

Do you think that this verse is saying that if you are a Gentile, you are only required to do four things in your walk with God? I don’t think any Christian truly believes this! Does this verse really mean that Gentiles can murder, steal, bear false witness, honor not their mother and father, covet their neighbors’ goods, or take the Lord's name in vain? Of course not!!!

Of course not. But there seems to be a clear distinction between the moral laws of the Old Testament (which are not only kept, but added to - e.g. no polygamy or divorce in the NT) and the ritual laws of the Old Testament, which were transfigured by Christ's fulfillment of them and whose spirit still applies but whose letter does not. Of these ritual laws, only the four mentioned were considered still applicable for Gentile converts.

Quote
The truth is that this Scripture is talking about new, immature, idol worshipping Gentile believers in Jesus Christ who are just turning to God. Paul and the Counsel expected the Gentiles to catch on to the rest of God’s instruction after they get stronger through faith. It is not saying that they shouldn't walk according to God’s laws. The verse in question is communicating that it was not necessary to be totally Torah observant before one could be saved.

Nowhere in the writings of St. Paul is it suggested that Torah observance is even desirable, which makes me question the idea that converts were ever expected to "catch on to the rest" at a later date.

Quote
My friend, we don’t need to quote scriptures to learn that there are many ethical and ritual laws of the Torah that are irrelevant today. The Jews themselves have omitted certain laws without the requirement of any sort of counsel, like the one you quoted, and that was convened to resolve the dispute around circumcision. But the Ten Commandments that were written by “the fingers of God” on the two tablets of the Ark of the Covenant remain relevant.

Then I wonder why the Ethiopian Church is alone in its observance of the Sabbath. Like I said before, the other Orthodox churches honour the Sabbath liturgically (no fasting, celebration of the Liturgy, etc.) but I do not believe any other Orthodox church has ever prescribed Sabbath observance of the kind you describe above.

Please don't get me wrong, I am not criticising the Tewahido Church for their Sabbath observance. It just seems inconsistent with what is taught by the other Orthodox churches and I'm therefore keen to understand how the apparent contradiction can be resolved.

Quote
Jesus Christ did not come to earth to nullify or make obsolete the Ten Commandments. Rather, He magnified them and made them honorable by illustrating in His daily life how to perfectly keep them to their full spiritual intent. This was true even of the Sabbath Commandment. Christ's custom was to study and teach from the Bible on the Sabbath day. He also performed works of service for others on the Sabbath. Christ realized that devoting the Sabbath day every week to the worship of God is still beneficial to humans.

The Lord was also circumcised, never ate a piece of pork or shellfish, didn't shave the sides of His head or cut the corners of His beard, didn't wear clothes made from two different materials, etc.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2010, 08:05:35 AM by Orthodox11 » Logged
Hiywot
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido
Posts: 149


« Reply #25 on: April 01, 2010, 04:25:16 AM »

Orthodox11,

Are you sure that there are no references that make the commandments desirable?

Remember that it was James who spoke the words in Acts 15:20 that you quoted above. But in his own epistle, James says: “but you be doers of the commandment and not hearers only!” He also says: “whosoever shall keep the law, and offend one point, he is guilty of all. For He that said Do not commit adultery, said also Do not kill”. He even goes ahead and says that transgressors of the law shall be judged by the law of liberty (whatever interpretation this may have – judgment is there). And John says "For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments". To which commandments was John referring? Undoubtedly, to the commandments of God which, when transgressed, result in sin. The apostle Paul tells us plainly which commandments these are. He writes that he would not have known what sin was except the law told him, "You shall not covet". This directly references one of God's Ten Commandments! John also taught the importance of God's Commandments. In revelation he writes: "Blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life". He states further in Revelation: "Here is the patience of the saints. Here are they that keep the Commandments of God and the faith of Jesus Christ." And in 1John, he explains that if anyone says he knows Christ, but doesn't keep His commandments, he is a liar, and the truth is not in him. Could anything be more clear?

You are wondering why we are alone in this.

Well, though we have many traditions that render as unique, I don’t think that we are alone in this case. Your church honors the Sabbath. Other churches also honor the Sabbath.  But why do you think are you honoring the Sabbath? It is simply because it is one of the Ten Commandments for God’s obvious reasons. The only difference between you and us is that we honor it much more deeply than you do! So why are we honoring it to this extent? Other than my arguments so far, our observance of the Sabbath is based on the following:
1.   The Ten Commandments that were written by “the fingers of God” on stone tablets and given to us.
2.   The 66th order in our Book of Synodos (which one of the books of church order) which says that we should observe both Saturday and Sunday similarly.
3.   The Counsel of Debre-mitmaq that was held in 1450, chaired by King Zara’ Yaqob, summoned all the heads of churches and monasteries and Tewahido scholars of the nation and that declared Saturday and Sunday to be observed equally.
4.   The Ethiopian Fitiha Negest, which is the “cannonum regum” or the Law of kings, that states in its article 19, that we should observe both Saturday and Sunday. It also states that we should observe Saturday not the way Jews are observing it but the way Christians are. Therefore, we are happy of the way we are observing the Sabbath because whatever we do on this day is Christian and is indicative of the fact that we are giving it much more honor.
5.   The books of the lives of saints Tekle-haymanot, Filipos, Ewostatheos, Zena-marqos, Aba Giorgis of Gasicha, etc. that underline the importance of observing the Sabbath. Aba Giorgis, in his famous ‘book of mystery’, has also indicated the importance of the two Sabbaths, Saturday and Sunday.

Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy!!

Hiywot.
Logged
Tags: sabbath Ethiopian Orthodox Church 
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.096 seconds with 53 queries.