Author Topic: Texts for Saint Patrick Vigil  (Read 1779 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Irish Hermit

  • Kibernetski Kaludjer
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,991
  • Holy Father Patrick, pray for us
Texts for Saint Patrick Vigil
« on: March 17, 2010, 05:10:50 AM »

I have texts for Saint Patrick for Vigil (Vespers and Matins) in either English or Greek.

If anybody would like one or the other, please let me know...

emrys @ globe.net.nz

Offline Irish Hermit

  • Kibernetski Kaludjer
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,991
  • Holy Father Patrick, pray for us
Re: Texts for Saint Patrick Vigil
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2010, 07:46:01 AM »
I just remembered that the Forum allows documents to be attached.   

Here is the Vigil to Saint Patrick in Greek.

Offline arimethea

  • Getting too old for this
  • Moderator
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,968
  • Does anyone really care what you think?
Re: Texts for Saint Patrick Vigil
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2010, 10:30:14 AM »
I just remembered that the Forum allows documents to be attached.   

Here is the Vigil to Saint Patrick in Greek.

Can you attach the English?
Joseph

Offline Irish Hermit

  • Kibernetski Kaludjer
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,991
  • Holy Father Patrick, pray for us
« Last Edit: March 17, 2010, 04:00:41 PM by Irish Hermit »

Offline pensateomnia

  • Bibliophylax
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,360
  • metron ariston
Re: Texts for Saint Patrick Vigil
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2010, 05:11:42 PM »
That English service is totally different than the Greek one. Strange to say, but the Greek one is beautifully written and makes good liturgical sense too. Definitely done by a psalti who knows what's what. Perhaps we'll need to translate from the Greek in order to get a good service for the Apostle to Ireland!
But for I am a man not textueel I wol noght telle of textes neuer a deel. (Chaucer, The Manciple's Tale, 1.131)

Offline GabrieltheCelt

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,013
Re: Texts for Saint Patrick Vigil
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2010, 05:17:54 PM »
That English service is totally different than the Greek one. Strange to say, but the Greek one is beautifully written and makes good liturgical sense too. Definitely done by a psalti who knows what's what. Perhaps we'll need to translate from the Greek in order to get a good service for the Apostle to Ireland!

 Would you be willing to undertake this endeavor for a liturgically challenged simpleton such as moi?
"The Scots-Irish; Brewed in Scotland, bottled in Ireland, uncorked in America."  ~Scots-Irish saying

Offline Irish Hermit

  • Kibernetski Kaludjer
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,991
  • Holy Father Patrick, pray for us
Re: Texts for Saint Patrick Vigil
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2010, 05:39:40 PM »
That English service is totally different than the Greek one.

The English Service is a translation of the Slavonic Service composed in the 1970s by Valeria Hoecke of New York and blessed for use by the Synod of Bishops of the Russian Orthodox Church (Abroad.)  I suppose that I prefer it because I have been using it for about 30 years.

The Greek Service was composed more recently by Panagiotis Somalis.  He has composed about 10 Services in all to the Irish Saints.

I've attached an English translation from Greek.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2010, 05:41:22 PM by Irish Hermit »

Offline franthonyc

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 84
    • Assumption Greek Orthodox Church
Re: Texts for Saint Patrick Vigil
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2010, 06:10:07 PM »
That English service looks completely different from the Greek as well (though I can't say I've gone through with a fine-toothed comb, so I might be missing the bit in Greek that is translated there into English.

If different...I wonder where it came from. :)
Τῷ μεγάλῳ χρίεται μύρῳ καὶ χειρονεῖται βασιλεὺς καὶ αὐτοκράτωρ τῶν Ῥωμαίων, πάντων δηλαδὴ τῶν χριστιανῶν...οὐδὲν οὖν ἔνι καλὸν, υἱέ μου, ἵνα λέγῃς, ὅτι ἐκκλησίαν ἔχομεν, οὐχὶ βασιλέα, οὐκ ἔνι δυνατὸν εἰς τοὺς χριστιανοὺς, ἔκκλησίαν ἔχειν καὶ βασιλέα οὐκ ἔχειν. – EP Anthony to Basil of Moscow c. 1395

Offline pensateomnia

  • Bibliophylax
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,360
  • metron ariston
Re: Texts for Saint Patrick Vigil
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2010, 09:33:02 PM »
That English service looks completely different from the Greek as well (though I can't say I've gone through with a fine-toothed comb, so I might be missing the bit in Greek that is translated there into English.

If different...I wonder where it came from. :)

Just glanced at the version that purports to be a translation from the Greek. It's definitely not a translation of the asmatic akolouthia by Panagiotis Somalis.

Would you be willing to undertake this endeavor for a liturgically challenged simpleton such as moi?

I seriously doubt that I could translate it into properly metered English poetry that fits the prosomoia. That's more the domain of people like Fr. Seraphim Dedes. But I could translate it into prose. Or franthonyc could!
But for I am a man not textueel I wol noght telle of textes neuer a deel. (Chaucer, The Manciple's Tale, 1.131)

Offline franthonyc

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 84
    • Assumption Greek Orthodox Church
Re: Texts for Saint Patrick Vigil
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2010, 09:34:39 PM »
I could if I had a surfeit of time and could figure out what εὐηρέστησας means. Because for the moment, it's stumping me.

:)

EDIT – never mind about εὐηρέστησας. Just had to step back and stop depending on Diogenes.

However, pensateomnia, I do think you're being a bit too modest about your translation/poetical/metrical skillz.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2010, 09:40:20 PM by franthonyc »
Τῷ μεγάλῳ χρίεται μύρῳ καὶ χειρονεῖται βασιλεὺς καὶ αὐτοκράτωρ τῶν Ῥωμαίων, πάντων δηλαδὴ τῶν χριστιανῶν...οὐδὲν οὖν ἔνι καλὸν, υἱέ μου, ἵνα λέγῃς, ὅτι ἐκκλησίαν ἔχομεν, οὐχὶ βασιλέα, οὐκ ἔνι δυνατὸν εἰς τοὺς χριστιανοὺς, ἔκκλησίαν ἔχειν καὶ βασιλέα οὐκ ἔχειν. – EP Anthony to Basil of Moscow c. 1395

Offline franthonyc

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 84
    • Assumption Greek Orthodox Church
Re: Texts for Saint Patrick Vigil
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2010, 09:56:48 PM »
Translation to meter that is at least somewhat functional isn't too hard, honestly.

Doing it well, so that it is consonant with the tradition of Byzantine music, is another story.

But it takes awhile (at least for me). The hymn below took about an hour to translate and (crudely) meter. It's the first of the hymns from the Small Vespers in the Greek service posted above by Irish Hermit.

Ἀπὸ προγόνων βλαστήσας
πιστῶν, Πατρίκιε,
κἂν ῥάθυμος ὑπῆρξας
ἀμελείᾳ συζήσας,
ἐπέγνως τὸν Σωτῆρα καὶ ὁλικῶς
τοῦτον, Πάτερ, ἠγάπησας
καὶ εὐηρέστησας τούτῳ διὰ ζωῆς
ἐναρέτου καὶ θεόφρονος.

O Father Patrick, you sprung forth
from faithful ancestors
and though you first were careless
and were wed to indiff'rence,
you then saw the Savior and with no reserve
once beholding Him you loved Him
and you were pleasing to Him in your way of life
both God-minded and virtuous.
Τῷ μεγάλῳ χρίεται μύρῳ καὶ χειρονεῖται βασιλεὺς καὶ αὐτοκράτωρ τῶν Ῥωμαίων, πάντων δηλαδὴ τῶν χριστιανῶν...οὐδὲν οὖν ἔνι καλὸν, υἱέ μου, ἵνα λέγῃς, ὅτι ἐκκλησίαν ἔχομεν, οὐχὶ βασιλέα, οὐκ ἔνι δυνατὸν εἰς τοὺς χριστιανοὺς, ἔκκλησίαν ἔχειν καὶ βασιλέα οὐκ ἔχειν. – EP Anthony to Basil of Moscow c. 1395

Offline pensateomnia

  • Bibliophylax
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,360
  • metron ariston
Re: Texts for Saint Patrick Vigil
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2010, 10:08:23 PM »
That's metered quite well, actually. I was able to chant it according to the prosomoion.

P.S. But nothing can be quite as cool as chanting Πατρίκιε.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2010, 10:15:05 PM by pensateomnia »
But for I am a man not textueel I wol noght telle of textes neuer a deel. (Chaucer, The Manciple's Tale, 1.131)

Offline franthonyc

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 84
    • Assumption Greek Orthodox Church
Re: Texts for Saint Patrick Vigil
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2010, 12:08:36 AM »
Your point is granted, P-O. ;)

Next hymn, for what it's worth. Half an hour this time.

Ὡς τὸν ἀρχέκακον ὄφιν
νικήσας, Ὃσιε,
τῶν ὄφεων ἐῤῥύσω
Ἰρλανδίας τὴν νῆσον
ἐν ᾗ τὸ Εὐαγγέλιον τοῦ Χριστοῦ,
θεοφόρε, ἐκήρυξας
πολλοὺς κινδύνους, Πατρίκιε, ὑποστάς·
ὅθεν πόθῳ σὲ γεραίρομεν.

As you subdued the first serpent
which led us to distress,
so did you free the island
of the Irish from serpents
and in it you proclaimed the Good Tidings of Christ
O most blessed God-Bearing Saint.
And many trials, O Patrick, you overcame,
For which reason we, with love, honor you. 
Τῷ μεγάλῳ χρίεται μύρῳ καὶ χειρονεῖται βασιλεὺς καὶ αὐτοκράτωρ τῶν Ῥωμαίων, πάντων δηλαδὴ τῶν χριστιανῶν...οὐδὲν οὖν ἔνι καλὸν, υἱέ μου, ἵνα λέγῃς, ὅτι ἐκκλησίαν ἔχομεν, οὐχὶ βασιλέα, οὐκ ἔνι δυνατὸν εἰς τοὺς χριστιανοὺς, ἔκκλησίαν ἔχειν καὶ βασιλέα οὐκ ἔχειν. – EP Anthony to Basil of Moscow c. 1395

Offline pensateomnia

  • Bibliophylax
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,360
  • metron ariston
Re: Texts for Saint Patrick Vigil
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2010, 01:41:58 PM »
Nice, once again. Dunno if it's just the way I chant it, but why not have the last line be: "For which reason, with love, we honor you."?
But for I am a man not textueel I wol noght telle of textes neuer a deel. (Chaucer, The Manciple's Tale, 1.131)

Offline Fr. George

  • formerly "Cleveland"
  • Administrator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *******
  • Posts: 20,206
  • May the Lord bless you and keep you always!
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Re: Texts for Saint Patrick Vigil
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2010, 02:34:33 PM »
Yes, a wonderful contribution, Father.  Well-metered, easy to sing according to the prosomion.
"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"
Met. Meletios of Nikopolis & Preveza, from his ordination.

Offline franthonyc

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 84
    • Assumption Greek Orthodox Church
Re: Texts for Saint Patrick Vigil
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2010, 06:15:49 PM »
Yes, a wonderful contribution, Father.  Well-metered, easy to sing according to the prosomion.

...and just two hymns out of an entire service. I don't think I'll be translating the whole thing. ;)

If you, however, wanted to chip in, Fr. George, we'd be done before we knew it. Because I'm sure you have SO much time on your hands (like me).
Τῷ μεγάλῳ χρίεται μύρῳ καὶ χειρονεῖται βασιλεὺς καὶ αὐτοκράτωρ τῶν Ῥωμαίων, πάντων δηλαδὴ τῶν χριστιανῶν...οὐδὲν οὖν ἔνι καλὸν, υἱέ μου, ἵνα λέγῃς, ὅτι ἐκκλησίαν ἔχομεν, οὐχὶ βασιλέα, οὐκ ἔνι δυνατὸν εἰς τοὺς χριστιανοὺς, ἔκκλησίαν ἔχειν καὶ βασιλέα οὐκ ἔχειν. – EP Anthony to Basil of Moscow c. 1395

Offline Irish Hermit

  • Kibernetski Kaludjer
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,991
  • Holy Father Patrick, pray for us
Re: Texts for Saint Patrick Vigil
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2010, 06:35:33 PM »
Dear Fathers,

Girds up your loins..... work to be done.

Panagiotis has created several services to the Celtic Saints and other Western Saints.... they all need English translations.

1. St. Julius of Rome
2. St. David of Wales
3. St. Patrick of Ireland
4. St. Cuthbert
5. St. Columban
6. St. Martin Pope of Rome
7. St. Vincent of Saragossa
8. St. Afra of Augsburg
9. St. Frederick of Utrecht
10. St. Boniface of Metz
11. St. Walburga
12. St. Eulalia of Merida
13. St. Samson of Dol
14. St. Ninian, Apostle of the Picts
 

Offline LBK

  • No Reporting Allowed
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,247
  • Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!
  • Faith: Orthodox
Re: Texts for Saint Patrick Vigil
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2010, 07:09:03 PM »
Dear Fathers,

Girds up your loins..... work to be done.

Panagiotis has created several services to the Celtic Saints and other Western Saints.... they all need English translations.

1. St. Julius of Rome
2. St. David of Wales
3. St. Patrick of Ireland
4. St. Cuthbert
5. St. Columban
6. St. Martin Pope of Rome
7. St. Vincent of Saragossa
8. St. Afra of Augsburg
9. St. Frederick of Utrecht
10. St. Boniface of Metz
11. St. Walburga
12. St. Eulalia of Merida
13. St. Samson of Dol
14. St. Ninian, Apostle of the Picts
 

It seems that there is nothing new under the sun. There seems to be a historical thread over many centuries linking the Irish, and Celts in general, with the Greeks. To whit:

The late, great, actor Gregory Peck was of Irish stock. He grew up with tales from his grandmother of their "Black Irish" ancestry. The Black Irish were long regarded in folklore as having descended from sailors of the Spanish Armada shipwrecked or otherwise seeking refuge on the Irish coast, and indeed looked rather different from their blond or red-headed Celtic countrymen. Mr Peck once visited the land of his ancestors, and, on his return, was relating his experiences to Spyros Skouros, the president of the 20th Century-Fox studio at the time. Prize Greek that he was, Skouros had to say his piece with typical Greek bluntness: "That stuff about the Spanish sailors is nonsense. We Greeks were there 2000 years ago. Where do you think you got your name of Gregory?"

It's also true that, in the so-called Dark Ages, one of the few areas of the Christian world where the Greek language was maintained and manuscripts copied were in the scriptoria of the Irish monasteries.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2010, 07:11:51 PM by LBK »
No longer posting here. Anyone is welcome to PM me or email me at the address in my profile.

Offline Panagiotis_S

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: Texts for Saint Patrick Vigil
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2010, 05:19:18 PM »
A friend brought to my attention this forum.
I am the writer of the Greek service to St. Patrick.
Indeed I have written a few services to "Western" Saints.
May their prayers be with us all.
Those who make use of them are kindly requested to pray for the repose of the souls of the departed servants of God Michael (my father) and Bishop Christopher of Telmessos (who was my spiritual father during my seven years' stay in UK and had a great devotion for the Saints of the British isles).
Thanks a lot.

Offline Melodist

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,523
Re: Texts for Saint Patrick Vigil
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2011, 10:36:30 PM »
Does anyone know if an english translation has been produced for this particular greek service?

A friend of mine has taken some interest in St Patrick and has asked for some information on him. I have already found quite a bit of information on St Patrick. I am currently looking for hymns, prayers, etc concerning him. I have already looked up the troparia, kontakia, and copied the prayers concerning St Patrick from the two english services posted here. An english translation of these hymns and prayers would just about complete my search for information.
And FWIW, these are our Fathers too, you know.

Made Perfect in Weakness - Latest Post: The Son of God

Offline Melodist

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,523
Re: Texts for Saint Patrick Vigil
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2011, 11:25:43 AM »
BUMP
And FWIW, these are our Fathers too, you know.

Made Perfect in Weakness - Latest Post: The Son of God

Offline Iconodule

  • Uranopolitan
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,137
  • "My god is greater."
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate (ACROD)
Re: Texts for Saint Patrick Vigil
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2011, 12:01:48 PM »
Your point is granted, P-O. ;)

Next hymn, for what it's worth. Half an hour this time.

Ὡς τὸν ἀρχέκακον ὄφιν
νικήσας, Ὃσιε,
τῶν ὄφεων ἐῤῥύσω
Ἰρλανδίας τὴν νῆσον
ἐν ᾗ τὸ Εὐαγγέλιον τοῦ Χριστοῦ,
θεοφόρε, ἐκήρυξας
πολλοὺς κινδύνους, Πατρίκιε, ὑποστάς·
ὅθεν πόθῳ σὲ γεραίρομεν.

As you subdued the first serpent
which led us to distress,
so did you free the island
of the Irish from serpents
and in it you proclaimed the Good Tidings of Christ
O most blessed God-Bearing Saint.
And many trials, O Patrick, you overcame,
For which reason we, with love, honor you.  

"As thou subduedst the primal serpent
Which led to all our woe
So didst thou free the island
Of the Irish from all snakes
And proclaimed therein the Gospel of the Christ
O most-blessed and God-bearing Saint.
And many trials, O Patrick, overcamest thou,
Wherefore, with love, we honour thee."

There, now we "traditional" English snobs can use it  :)
« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 12:02:51 PM by Iconodule »
"A riddle or the cricket's cry
Is to doubt a fit reply." - William Blake