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Author Topic: Reincarnation?  (Read 6212 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #45 on: February 03, 2012, 01:45:24 AM »

“It is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.”

Smiley
There's more than one judgement after death: there is the particular judgement right after death, and the final judgement at the end of time. This fact doesn't prove reincarnation, of course.
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« Reply #46 on: February 03, 2012, 02:04:58 AM »


Personally, I think it's demons...trying to break the faith of those around by convincing them of reincarnation.

There is no such thing.

That is definitely one theory- it just seems "wrong" that children would be involved. Not that demons can't attack anyone at any age, but I would like to think that God wouldn't permit that against a 2 year old.
But how might we know such would not be "permitted?"

Lk 9:38f. "A man in the crowd called out, 'Teacher, I beg you to look at my son, for he is my only child. A spirit seizes him and he suddenly screams; it throws him into convulsions so that he foams at the mouth. It scarcely ever leaves him and is destroying him.'"

Not to make light of something as horrible as demonic oppression or possession, but sometimes if one's eyes are open he/she is very often led to wonder why things that can seem much worse than the darkest of all possible imaginings do indeed seem to be "permitted."
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« Reply #47 on: February 03, 2012, 04:13:18 PM »

If the body is a part of what makes us who we are, then there can be no reincarnation.  If all humanity is is intangible, then there can be. 
There are forms of reincarnation in which the soul and body remain one.
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« Reply #48 on: February 03, 2012, 04:46:21 PM »

If the body is a part of what makes us who we are, then there can be no reincarnation.  If all humanity is is intangible, then there can be. 
There are forms of reincarnation in which the soul and body remain one.
As was stated, I'm sure, by a Mississippi trailer park chick who swears she is Livia Augusta reincarnated  Roll Eyes

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« Reply #49 on: February 03, 2012, 05:07:11 PM »

“It is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.”

Smiley
There's more than one judgement after death: there is the particular judgement right after death, and the final judgement at the end of time. This fact doesn't prove reincarnation, of course.

The quantifier in that verse is not attached to judgment. There could be one, two, or 563 judgements and it wouldn't change the significance of the what comes first: "It is appointed unto men once to die."
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« Reply #50 on: February 03, 2012, 05:49:13 PM »

If the body is a part of what makes us who we are, then there can be no reincarnation.  If all humanity is is intangible, then there can be. 
There are forms of reincarnation in which the soul and body remain one.

This, I have not heard before.
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« Reply #51 on: February 04, 2012, 10:02:40 AM »

“It is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.”

Smiley
There's more than one judgement after death: there is the particular judgement right after death, and the final judgement at the end of time. This fact doesn't prove reincarnation, of course.

The quantifier in that verse is not attached to judgment. There could be one, two, or 563 judgements and it wouldn't change the significance of the what comes first: "It is appointed unto men once to die."
And yet, Paul says, "I die daily" (1st Corinthians 15:31).
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« Reply #52 on: February 04, 2012, 10:06:11 AM »

If the body is a part of what makes us who we are, then there can be no reincarnation.  If all humanity is is intangible, then there can be. 
There are forms of reincarnation in which the soul and body remain one.

This, I have not heard before.
I don't argue that the Church should *teach* reincarnation, but that is a different issue from whether reincarnation is inherently incompatible with various Christian doctrines. Maybe some forms of reincarnation are not incompatible with the whole of doctrine, but that would not mean reincarnation should be taught.
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« Reply #53 on: February 04, 2012, 12:01:41 PM »

If the body is a part of what makes us who we are, then there can be no reincarnation.  If all humanity is is intangible, then there can be.  
There are forms of reincarnation in which the soul and body remain one.

This, I have not heard before.
I don't argue that the Church should *teach* reincarnation, but that is a different issue from whether reincarnation is inherently incompatible with various Christian doctrines. Maybe some forms of reincarnation are not incompatible with the whole of doctrine, but that would not mean reincarnation should be taught.

For what purpose and who's benefit would introducing reincarnation into Orthodoxy make any sense? The Fathers don't teach reincarnation and among all the gnostic sects that it was taught, they were condemned. It's innovational and doesn't belong in the faith handed down. It is already incompatible.
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« Reply #54 on: February 04, 2012, 01:35:13 PM »

If the body is a part of what makes us who we are, then there can be no reincarnation.  If all humanity is is intangible, then there can be.  
There are forms of reincarnation in which the soul and body remain one.

This, I have not heard before.
I don't argue that the Church should *teach* reincarnation, but that is a different issue from whether reincarnation is inherently incompatible with various Christian doctrines. Maybe some forms of reincarnation are not incompatible with the whole of doctrine, but that would not mean reincarnation should be taught.

For what purpose and who's benefit would introducing reincarnation into Orthodoxy make any sense?
Even if it did make sense, that would be no reason introduce it into Orthodoxy. I agree that it should not be introduced into Orthodoxy.
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The Fathers don't teach reincarnation
They certainly don't, but then again, they did not spend a lot of time talking about it and addressing the many different versions of how the mechanics of reincarnation might take place.
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and among all the gnostic sects that it was taught, they were condemned.
And it was understandably condemned in that gnostic context, since gnostics also tended to teach that matter is evil. If the only reincarnational system you are exposed to, is one that links reincarnation with "mal-materialism" ("matter is evil" idea), then it would be logical to condemn reincarnation. However, gnostic reincarnation is not the only version of reincarnation.
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It's innovational and doesn't belong in the faith handed down. It is already incompatible.
One could say similar things about the theory of evolution: it's an innovation, and it's not part of the faith that is necessary for salvation. And all that would be true. But those issues are different from the issue of whether among all theories of evolution (of which there are many), there is not one that is compatible with Christian doctrine. I would suggest that there is a theory of evolution (e.g., one that sees God as the Guiding Principle of the evolutionary process) that is compatible with Christian doctrine -- and while recognizing that such a theory of evolution is *still* an "innovation" and "not part of the faith" that is necessary for salvation.
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« Reply #55 on: February 05, 2012, 02:52:47 PM »

Perhaps it would be better if you enumerate the different types of reincarnation and explain each one of them, because people here are simply thinking of one type of reincarnation when it is mentioned.
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« Reply #56 on: February 07, 2012, 05:27:30 PM »

Perhaps it would be better if you enumerate the different types of reincarnation and explain each one of them, because people here are simply thinking of one type of reincarnation when it is mentioned.
The type of reincarnation I specifically have in mind involves the idea that the contents of the mind (ideas, thoughts, feelings, etc.) are simply forms of 'matter' -- very fine, very subtle, but still 'matter', and thus operating somewhat like atoms operate. In terms of death, this would mean that a particular person's contents of mind -- like the person's bodily atoms -- are co-opted by other persons after that particular person dies. The 'soul' of that particular person would go on (hades, purgatory, e.g.), but his bodily atoms and mental contents -- since they are 'matter' -- would remain in the earthly realm, and be absorbed by the body and mind of living persons. Some of these living persons could then be said to be "reincarnations" (or "re-embodiments") of previously living persons' atoms and mental content, leading to possible "past-life" memories and so forth.
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« Reply #57 on: February 07, 2012, 05:34:48 PM »

Perhaps it would be better if you enumerate the different types of reincarnation and explain each one of them, because people here are simply thinking of one type of reincarnation when it is mentioned.
The type of reincarnation I specifically have in mind involves the idea that the contents of the mind (ideas, thoughts, feelings, etc.) are simply forms of 'matter' -- very fine, very subtle, but still 'matter', and thus operating somewhat like atoms operate. In terms of death, this would mean that a particular person's contents of mind -- like the person's bodily atoms -- are co-opted by other persons after that particular person dies. The 'soul' of that particular person would go on (hades, purgatory, e.g.), but his bodily atoms and mental contents -- since they are 'matter' -- would remain in the earthly realm, and be absorbed by the body and mind of living persons. Some of these living persons could then be said to be "reincarnations" (or "re-embodiments") of previously living persons' atoms and mental content, leading to possible "past-life" memories and so forth.

I don't buy it (except in the very unsubtle form that the chemicals and neurons of the brain where memories are encoded, break down like the rest of the body and get returned 'to the earth'), but I'd have to agree that such a belief, either as a belief or if it were ever demonstrated scientifically, would not be a contradiction of the Church's traditional rejection of reincarnation or the verse about being appointed 'once to die'.
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« Reply #58 on: February 07, 2012, 07:27:17 PM »

The concept of reincarnation is incompatible with Orthodox Christianity because our bodies are not passive receptacles of spirits or souls. They are rather an integral portion of our very being. To have a "soul" united to multiple bodies seems heretical.
A very good point. Even if I did believe in reincarnation, I think I'd put about as much stock in this book as I do in "Heaven Is for Real" now.
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« Reply #59 on: February 08, 2012, 03:49:37 PM »

For us as Christians our hope is in the resurection, not reincarnation, when our bodies will be restored in perfection and united with our souls once and forever.

I understand why one would hope for reincarnation, even in a "christian" context, since it would let us "try" agian at living a good life.  But every day, every moment, is a chance to start anew and serve God.

Aside from being completely heretical, no matter what any psuedo-scientist or anyone may say, it is erroneous and incompatible with the Gospel.


 
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« Reply #60 on: February 08, 2012, 04:03:38 PM »

Some posit that St. John the Baptist was the reincarnation of the Holy Prophet Elias/Elijah.

Quote from: Matthew 11:7-15
And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind? But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses. But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet. For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Other references to this is the other Gospels as well.

Of course Elias was "taken up" and never died, so this makes for more head-scratching.
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« Reply #61 on: February 08, 2012, 04:09:38 PM »


...hasn't died, YET.
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« Reply #62 on: February 08, 2012, 04:13:01 PM »

Some also posit that aliens built the pyramids.
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« Reply #63 on: February 08, 2012, 04:33:53 PM »

...hasn't died, YET.

Touché! So maybe there is soul travel and time travel involved! We will get to the bottom of this.
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« Reply #64 on: October 23, 2012, 02:59:35 PM »

Quote
Tom Hanks wants to be one of the Wright brothers in his next life. Halle Berry and Ben Whishaw would like to come back in feline form. Susan Sarandon wants to remain a woman, and she'd like a great set of singing pipes.

The stars of "Cloud Atlas" – along with British author David Mitchell, who wrote the novel that inspired the genre-bending epic about souls returning and intertwining over the centuries – shared their beliefs and disbeliefs about reincarnation as the film heads to U.S. theaters Friday.

Hanks himself doesn't buy into reincarnation, while Berry, Whishaw, Mitchell, Sarandon and co-stars Hugo Weaving and Jim Sturgess either believe or at least think it's possible that souls come back for an encore.
....
Hanks (interviewed alongside Berry): One of the Wright brothers. I'd love to be the first guy to see the earth from the sky. I think that'd be great. Either one, Orville or Wilbur. Who was the funniest? I want to be the funny Wright brother.

Berry: I'm going to choose an animal (Hanks rolls his eyes). Probably a lion. King of the jungle. Some animal roaming the earth.

Hanks: Let's say I'm going to buy the reincarnation thing. I'm taking animals out of it.

Berry: Why?

Hanks: You have never seen a happy old lion, and I would like to be somebody who can be happy when they're old. Old lions, you know what they do? They've got busted teeth, and they've got ulcers somewhere. They can't catch anything. They get thrown out of the pride.

Berry: How do you know that?

Hanks: Because I've seen old lions! I've been to the zoo!
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« Reply #65 on: December 10, 2012, 11:24:28 PM »

One thing we have to wonder is, in the context of Christianity, why would there be reincarnation? I can't seem to come up with a decent reason why the God of orthodox Christianity would have created the reality of reincarnation. And if there is no reason why He would have done it, you really have to question whether He actually did or not.

why if I question it? will I find an answer?

Also a possible reason why he would do it, is because he is merciful and he wants to give us as many opportunities as possibly can be given to seek him.
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« Reply #66 on: December 10, 2012, 11:33:41 PM »


There is no Christian Theory of Reincarnation.  You have this one life, so you better do your best with it.

As for demons not possessing children...as if they were too polite to do so....why is then that prior to baptism (even infant baptism) the individual goes through an exorcism?  Just in case....

So, this whole reincarnation/rebirth, people reliving previous lives, people being able to talk to your dead relatives who are floating around you, etc....this is all work of demons...to confuse you....

It seems they are making headway, as some devout Orthodox are believing in reincarnation.

Christ lived as a man on this earth...He never mentioned reincarnation....His soul did not come back in another body....He came to His disciples with the same body and soul...and He ascended to Heaven as such.

That should say it all.




were missing information about jesus life from 12 -30 I believe it was. Who is to say we are not missing any more. And as for jesus resurrection. He was God. He didn't want another body. Now. I am not saying I believe in reincarnation. But I am open to the possibility. And I don't see it as a bad thing if it turns out to be true. But then, no dead came back personally to tell us anything, regarding what happens after death.
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« Reply #67 on: March 27, 2014, 08:18:03 AM »

One thing we have to wonder is, in the context of Christianity, why would there be reincarnation? I can't seem to come up with a decent reason why the God of orthodox Christianity would have created the reality of reincarnation. And if there is no reason why He would have done it, you really have to question whether He actually did or not.

I see less reasons for a general resurrection.
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« Reply #68 on: April 13, 2014, 10:57:13 AM »

Tolkien, as a Catholic, rejected reincarnation of human souls, but he also felt that reincarnation of non-human souls (e.g., Elvish) was a theological possibility.
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« Reply #69 on: April 13, 2014, 02:18:09 PM »

Tolkien, as a Catholic, rejected reincarnation of human souls, but he also felt that reincarnation of non-human souls (e.g., Elvish) was a theological possibility.

Reincarnation is accepted by a 1/4 of Christians as well as almost every religion or philosophy.. I mean.. I'm not sure how everyone can prove this.

Reincarnation is odd because it's accepted as valid in Orthodox Judaism when there is nothing about this in the Bible. That doesnt mean it's not valid as there are lots of secret knowledge that was held by Rabbis in Biblical times. The bible isnt that type of book that explains 'why'. Those are books only for the Rabbi's at the time. Some books are mentioned by name in the Bible actually.

However, what's odd with reincarnation wasnt written in Judaism until the 13th century times. Its the only thing Orthodox Judaism accepts that is a late coming writing that has nothing in the Bible. Strange.

I LIKE reincarnation and tend to believe in it because the beleif of this is so old and widely accepted. It also answers all the 'why' questions in life. It closes a circle of mystery to an extent. Here's the way it works:

If you are righteous non-believer or generally a typical selfish person who doesnt know God, Then when you pass, your soul will go for 'dry cleaning' in a lesser hell, until it gets cleansed of it's sins. I cant remember.. Then your soul gets sent back up and placed in a baby when its born. The soul only gets issued when the baby is fully out of the mother.

If you were a person that was fairly good, but did something very bad to your wife, then God might cut you a break and send your soul to the lesser hell for dry cleaning. Here's the thing, when your soul comes back up to be re-used, it has a no desire for women in order to keep you away from them as a punishment for your previous life. This is why 3% of men arent into women.

Now here's the kicker. You have 3 places possible to go: Dry cleaning, Eternal Hell, or Eternal Heaven.

Now here's the thing. Listen close. In order for the person above to go to Heaven, he must overcome the curse he was born with to prove his righteousness before God. If he does this, he's able to get in the gates of heaven. When this happens, he then has access to memories of all his previous lives. Every single second of all our previous lives are stored in HD and can be pulled up later. This is if our current soul has a previous life.

Jesus spoke of someone being born blind it said it was the working of God, not themactions of parents. This can KINDA be construed to believe the Jesus knew of reincarnation as a secret teaching.

The blind person is blind because in his previous life did something with his eyes. The autistic did something with his mind. That is the idea of reincarnation. So God sees good in these people, and gives them a chance to try again. Imagine if everyone took up this theology and how drastically it would change peoples world view. It takes away the sense of absolute fleshly entitlment. It allows us to accept our shortcomings as a work from God with a purpose.

And this is why I believe in reincarnation althought it's not a fundemental pillar of faith or anything.. Even in Judaism.

Whatever your cicumstances in this life, your goal is to go to heaven. You dont want to hang around as a ghost or be faught over by demons, you want to go EXPRESS to heaven. Few will get this unfortunately accordeing to the Catholics and the doctrine of the 'fewness of the saved' which is a known and true doctrine in Catholic seminary school. It's something Catholics no longer preach. They say that the majority of Catholics will be damned unfortunately.

It's time to stop believing you come from monkeys. Stop believing in mans logic of science to explain you life and why your hear. It's tome for women to find a husband AS SOON AS POSSIBLE AND MAKE IT A FIRST PRIORITY IN HER LIFE. It's time to stop breaking commandments. It's time to get serious and work towards going EXPRESS TO HEAVEN and re-uniting with your relatives and enjoying a paradise like we dont understand. There is no fear and panic in heaven. It's on the light in heaven. The Holy Spirit and no darkness.

Again i cant stress enough - women need to find husbands. Make it a CENTRAL FOCUS IN THEIR LIVES. Find a boy as soin as possible. Multiply. Be a mother. Give life. Become one flesh. Women need to do what it takes to fulfill this at ANY COST. If there are young unmarried people on this forum, it is almost your duty and obligation to send each other pm's and begin chatting and getting married to other orthodox. It's almost a responsibility actually of this forum to promote this. Orthodox people are here unmarried? Then GET CHATTING and be serious because we want everyone here going EXPRESS to heaven. Now is the time to change and do things in your life starting now to please God. He's watching all the time. Show some effort before him. Take actions to prove to him you want to go express to heaven. Please I urge women to make finding a boy the ABSOLUTE most IMPORTANT thing in their lives. Even if their divorced or whatever their situation it's not too late to turn around.

Why? Because here's the thing. God LOVES IT when you find Him again through your own free will. This is the biggest reward. For every bad thing you have done in the past, gets turned into a blessing if you legitimately submit to God and follow a proper theology. Born again and doing what you want isnt a good idea. This is all about actions and deeds in life. Not your thoughts. Let Hindus and buddists worry about their inner zen and thoughts.

Banking all your eternal life on your opinions and thoughts its extremely egotisistical and breaks the first commandment. You arent the center of Gods universe. He doesnt care what you belief is or your opinion or purity of thoughts. He cares about actions and deeds. So its a new day. A day to take actions to prove to agod you are righteous and worthy. How? Find a boy!!! Clean your house/room. Present yourself better. Learn the 10 commandments and all they entail. If you see something lying around the house, pick it up and put it back. Put your cart back at the grocery store. Pick up dropped clothes from the clothes hanger. Small things that God likes which affect others. God doesnt care about things like Jwalking or other frivolous rules created by man. Its small to him. Again ladies should make an absolute priority for finding a boy as a first priority and not thinking life is about her wearing the pants. She can do this with her kids, not her fiance and husband. Let him be a man. Be the wife. WHATEVER YOU DO PLEASE JUST FIND A HUSBAND!!!!
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The above post is intended for discussion purposes and is comprised of my personal opinion.
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« Reply #70 on: April 13, 2014, 02:24:40 PM »

What does any of that have to do with reincarnation?

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« Reply #71 on: April 16, 2014, 12:18:31 PM »

http://www.carolbowman.com/dr-ian-stevenson/case-shanti-devi/
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« Reply #72 on: April 16, 2014, 02:35:07 PM »


Since there is a policy against posting so-called "naked links", please include a brief description of this link.  Thanks.
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« Reply #73 on: April 16, 2014, 02:51:47 PM »

"Shanti Devi is one of the best cases of children’s past life memories to ever be recorded. It was investigated by a committee of prominent citizens appointed by Mahatma Gandhi, who accompanied Shanti Devi to the village of her past-life recollections and recorded what they witnessed.
"She then asked her mother to prepare meals for the guests. When the mother asked what should she prepare, she said that he was fond of stuffed potato parathas and pumpkin squash. Kedarnath was dumbfounded as these were his favorite dishes. Then Kedarnath asked whether she could tell them anything unusual to establish full faith in her. Shanti replied, “Yes, there is a well in the courtyard of our house, where I used to take my bath.”

Shanti was emotionally overwhelmed on seeing Navneet, the son in her previous life. Tears welled in her eyes when she hugged him. She asked her mother to bring all her toys and give them to Navneet. But she was too excited to wait for her mother to act and ran to bring them. Kedarnath asked her how she had recognized Navneet as her son, when she had seen him only once as an infant before she died. Shanti explained that her son was a part of her soul and the soul is able to easily recognize this fact."
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« Reply #74 on: April 16, 2014, 03:00:50 PM »

If you believe you have a soul and a body then I see how one could re-explain incarnation in former lives.
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« Reply #75 on: April 16, 2014, 03:34:29 PM »

If you believe you have a soul and a body then I see how one could re-explain incarnation in former lives.
What do you mean by "re-explain"?
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« Reply #76 on: April 16, 2014, 04:43:36 PM »

If you believe you have a soul and a body then I see how one could re-explain incarnation in former lives.
What do you mean by "re-explain"?

Explaining something over and over again.
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