Hello,
I have been reading your forum for awhile, but I have never posted before. You seem like kind and well-informed people, so I would like some help on a topic if you don't mind.
I have been a practicing Protestant for many years now. I have attended a number of churches. I usually attend them for a period of time, become uncomfortable with them and move on. A number of things have occurred in my life lately that have caused me to question some of my beliefs and the preachings of the churches I have attended.
I believe I am uncomfortable with the presumed (and preached) relationship to God. I never like services where people have to get up and state "how God is working in your life", which I interpret to mean what God has done for me lately. I have heard people pray for and praise God for a series of material things which I just don't think matter. (Of course, they also pray for health and healing which matter very much.) I am very uncomfortable admitting this, but I believe that I (and these churches) have the relationship wrong. That we are placing ourselves at the center of the relationship, in the place where God belongs. That He serves us, rather than us serving Him. Among other problems, this leaves me with me with no words to pray.
Hi Chelsea,
I can relate to your feelings about the churches you have been going to. For many years my only exposure to Christianity was Catholicism and Evangelical Protestantism. Obviously there are many other forms of Christianity, but my exposure was limited. I was raised as a Roman Catholic, but as a young teenager I fell away from that. As an angsty kid I found many flaws in the Roman Catholic Church (some of which I stand by; others I have come to reconcile) and I didn’t want to be a part of it. On various occasions I went with friends to Pentecostal and Baptist services, and these disturbed me deeply. The theology was very juvenile, the worship was ‘hip’ (rock bands, kids dancing, people speaking in tongues, waving hands in the air, etc), and everyone creeped me out. I couldn’t relate to them at all. Their eyes would glaze over as they said, ‘have you found Jesus yet?’ with a smile that seemed so artificial. I have no doubt about the sincerity of their faith nor the purity of their hearts, but it was really not for me, at all.
In 2009 my Greek neighbours invited me to their midnight Easter service. When we arrived there were hundreds of Greeks everywhere – in the street, in the church yard, in the parking lot, packed in the church, etc. We waited for a long time for the service to begin. When we arrived the chanters had begun their hymns, and I felt that there was something profoundly ancient and spiritual about the music. It was captivating and awe inspiring unlike anything I had heard in a religious service before. The church blew me away as well – the interior was beautiful, more so than any other church I had ever seen. There were beautiful paintings of Jesus, Mary, the archangels, John the Baptist, and various saints and biblical scenes (such as the Baptism of Jesus in the Jordan River, the Last Supper, the Nativity, etc) all around the walls. Finally the priest appeared, clad in beautiful vestments, waving an incense censor around and wafting frankincense smoke into the air. The service was incredible – the intensity of the chanting and the proclamation of the resurrection was uplifting like nothing I’d ever experienced before. It felt ancient, and reverent. I kept thinking,
this is how people should worship. This is how it should be done. Not rock bands and happy-clappy hands-in-the-air stuff. Worship should be reverent and profound. Orthodox Christianity is largely experiential. In the Divine Liturgy, all five senses are stimulated. You listen to the intense and beautiful chanting of the choir, you smell the incense, you touch and kiss the icons, taste the Eucharist, and look upon the beautiful icons which adorn the walls, the beautiful robes of the priest, and the other beautiful things which adorn the interior of an Orthodox church. It creates a very powerful atmosphere of worship, reverence and glory. Everything in an Orthodox Church is to passionately and reverently glorify God. It isn’t a form of worship which is centred around us – we don’t go there to give testimonies about the things God has done for us and share stories. We go there to worship and glorify Him and to beg for his mercy on us sinners, and to strengthen our communion with Him through the sacraments. Even an ordinary Sunday service is incredibly uplifting and moving.
I am trying to find a way to correct this. I can't follow the pope, so that leads me here. I have done a bit of research on the Orthodox church, but to be honest, your religion seems very complex and a little intimidating.
Yes, Orthodoxy is complex and intimidating. It is a very ancient tradition which has been preserved since Apostolic times. It isn’t simply a list of doctrines, nor is it a method of worship, or an organizational structure, but all of these things and so much more. Orthodoxy is a way of life. It is a full religious tradition with a rich heritage of scriptures, theological writings, philosophy, history, saints, architecture, a, ecclesiastical calendar, many complex ancient rituals, musical styles, artistic styles, and core theological beliefs which unite us in faith. Orthodoxy involves the veneration of all things Holy - not only the Trinity, but everything which points to the Trinity is respected for its role in leading us to Christ. The complexity of Orthodoxy quickly becomes natural and the intimidation doesn’t last long, and soon you feel yourself immersed in a rich tradition which satisfies every aspect of your spiritual life.
How do you see yourselves in relation to God?
In relation to God, I see myself as a sinner on a journey. I want to be like Jesus Christ – I really, really wish I could be as good as him. Unfortunately, I fail every day. I’m rude to my family, I’m insensitive to others, I drink too much and become aggressive and obnoxious, I break girls’ hearts, I fight with people, I give in to lust and have casual sex, I use drugs, I look at pornographic material, I lie, I’m judgemental, I’m cynical and unhelpful, etc. The list goes on. Nonetheless, despite how starkly it contradicts my character and lifestyle, I am deeply moved by the person of Jesus Christ, and the way he loved everyone unconditionally, and forgave and tolerated all, and courageously lived by the greatest moral principles known to us. Dostoevsky, a famous Russian author, once commented that despite how reluctant they may be to admit it, even atheists realise that there has never been a greater example of morality, love and kindness shown by a human being than in the example set by Jesus Christ. Intellectually and emotionally, this strikes a chord deep within me, and despite all my failures I am filled with longing to follow Christ’s example. Furthermore, I love God, and am filled with a deep desire to know him better, to follow his will and what he wants for me, even hough I fail so regularly.
Orthodoxy, I believe, helps me in my spiritual life of becoming a better person, getting to know God better, and achieving a greater level of spirituality. The more I become involved in Orthodoxy – that is, the more I pray, the more I go to church, the more I receive the sacraments, the more I read about Orthodox philosophy and theology, the more I participate in the fasts and Great Lent (which we are in now) – the closer I feel to God and the more inspired I become to increase my efforts to know God and to emulate Christ. The Liturgy uplifts me and always leaves me feeling more sanctified than before. The stories of the saints inspire me. The theological writings of the Church Fathers, such as St John Chrysostom, St Isaac of Syria, St Gregory of Palamas, St Gregory of Nazianzus, etc, help me to grow in spirit and in prayer. I can genuinely feel the positive affect that Orthodoxy has on my spiritual life, and I feel more at ease than I have for many years and I feel like I am (very) slowly becoming a better person.
If your question was regarding the Orthodox Church as a whole, rather than a question about our personal relationships with God, then I’ll try to present the Orthodox viewpoint as best as I can. Orthodox Christians believe that the Church is the Body of Christ, and the life of the Holy Spirit on earth. We view ourselves as being in a divinely gifted institution. The Church isn’t just the organisation of believers who gather to worship – it is the framework in which Christ and the Holy Spirit
act on earth. Us Orthodox Christians commune with God sacramentally and participate in the life and actions of the Holy Spirit through our participation in the Church, which nourishes our spiritual lives. The richness, complexity and vastness of the Orthodox faith ensure that there is always something new to learn, something new to be inspired by, something else to bring us closer to God. We are all on spiritual journeys towards attaining union with God (in Orthodoxy we call this journey
theosis), and participation in the richness of the Church assists us on that journey in so many ways.
How do you pray?
We pray in many ways. As a community assembled in a church, we pray through the various group worship services, such as Matins (morning prayers), Vespers (evening prayers), the Divine Liturgy (in which we partake in the sacrament of Eucharist, as well as praying to God to have mercy on us sinners), the Akathist (a long hymn service dedicated to the Trinity, a saint, the Mother of God, a holy event, etc) and others. Often these group worship services are conducted like a continual song – the priest chants something, and the choir and the people respond in chant/song. As I described before, the combination of music, images, taste, feel, and scent all combine to create an incredible uplifting atmosphere and a powerful spiritual experience.
Here are two examples of the kind of prayers we offer in the Divine Liturgy. The first is the Great Doxology, in which we praise and glorify the Trinity.
Glory to God in the highest,
and on earth peace and good will among men.
We praise you, we bless you, we worship you, we glorify you,
we give thanks to you for your great glory.
O Lord, heavenly King, God the Father Almighty;
O Lord, the Only-Begotten Son, Jesus Christ; and O Holy Spirit.
O Lord God, Lamb of God, Son of the Father,
Who takes away the sin of the world, have mercy on us;
You who take away the sins of the world, receive our prayer;
You who sit at the right hand of the Father, have mercy on us.
For you alone are holy,
You alone are the Lord, O Jesus Christ, to the glory of God the Father. Amen.
Every day will I bless you and I will praise you name forever and to ages of ages.
Vouchsafe, O Lord, to keep us this day without sin.
Blessed art you, O Lord, the God of our fathers,
and praised and glorified is your name throughout all ages. Amen.
Let your mercy, O Lord, be upon us as we have placed our trust in you.
Blessed art you, O Lord, teach me your statutes.
Blessed art you, O Lord, teach me your statutes.
Blessed art you, O Lord, teach me your statutes.
Lord, you have been our refuge in generation and generation.
I said: O Lord, have mercy on me, heal my soul, for I have sinned against you.
O Lord, unto you have I fled for refuge, teach me to do your will, for your art my God;
For in you is the fountain of life, in your light shall we see light.
O continue your mercy unto them that know you.
Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal, have mercy on us.
Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal, have mercy on us.
Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal, have mercy on us.
Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit, both now and ever, and unto the ages of ages. Amen.
Holy Immortal, have mercy on us.
Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal, have mercy on us.
In the Great Litany, we pray for peace and welfare of ourselves and the whole world, beseeching the Lord to have mercy upon us. Something I like to point out is how in Orthodox churches we pray for the government, regardless of whether we personally support them or not – not necessarily that God will preserve their authority, but that God will guide them and help them make the right choices for the country.
Deacon:In peace let us pray to the Lord.
People: Lord, have mercy.
Deacon: For the peace from on high and the salvation of our souls, let us pray to the Lord.
People: Lord, have mercy.
Deacon: For peace of the whole world, for the stability of the holy churches of God, and for the unity of all, let us pray to the Lord.
People: Lord, have mercy.
Deacon: For this holy house and for those who enter it with faith, reverence, and fear of God, let us pray to the Lord.
People: Lord, have mercy.
Deacon: For our Archbishop (Name), our Bishop (Name), the honorable priests, the deaconate in the service of Christ, and all the clergy and people, let us pray to the Lord.
People: Lord, have mercy.
Deacon: For our country, for our monarch Queen Elizabeth, for our prime minister, and all those in civil authority, let us pray to the Lord.
People: Lord, have mercy.
Deacon: For this parish and city, for every city and country, and for the faithful who dwell therein, let us pray to the Lord.
People: Lord, have mercy.
Deacon: For favorable weather, an abundance of the fruits of the earth, and temperate seasons, let us pray to the Lord.
People: Lord, have mercy.
Deacon: For those who travel by land, sea, and by air, for the sick and the suffering, for those in captivity and for their salvation, let us pray to the Lord.
People: Lord, have mercy.
Deacon: For our deliverance from all affliction, wrath, danger, and distress, let us pray to the Lord.
People: Lord, have mercy.
Priest: Help us, save us, have mercy upon us, and protect us, O God, by Your grace.
People: Lord, have mercy.
Deacon: Remembering our most holy, pure, blessed, and glorious Lady, the Theotokos and ever virgin Mary, with all the saints, let us commit ourselves and one another and our whole life to Christ our God.
People: To You, O Lord.
Individually, many Orthodox Christians try to pray daily at home. Praying in front of icons of Christ, the Saints, and the Virgin Mary is very common practice, but not mandatory. Some kneel, some stand, some prostrate (bow). Many read certain prayers from a prayer book along with psalms. In our private prayers we pray to the Holy Trinity, but we also ask the saints and the Mother of God to pray for us, just as we would ask a friend to pray for us. When I pray I stand before my icons with a candle lit in front of them and begin by saying the Jesus Prayer a number of times and performing prostrations. Then I read some psalms and perhaps a prayer from the vespers service, or St Symeon’s prayer. I then spend some time in a free-flowing dialogue in which I don’t follow any script or pre-written formula.
Orthodoxy also has a very rich tradition of meditative prayer known as hesychasm, which is Greek for ‘stillness’ or ‘quiet’. Hesychasm has its roots in the apostolic era, but was largely developed in the Byzantine period. It is a form of prayer which is based on Christ’s instruction to ‘go into your closet to pray,’ and involves cutting off the senses and retiring the mind inward, into the heart, to achieve experiential knowledge of God. Most hesychasts are monks who have committed their lives to this sort of prayer so that they can personally experience God through great hard work and discipline. However, many ordinary Orthodox lay people implement elements of this type of prayer, such as meditative repetition of the Jesus Prayer: ‘My Lord, Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy upon me, the sinner.’ Unfortunately I am not a good person to explain hesychasm as it is a very complex prayer tradition, and I am only new to Orthodoxy and have only started to scratch the surface of this very deep tradition.
What do you think about asking God for things? (I would rather not include immaterial things in my prayers.)
I ask God for things such as guidance, strength in my faith, knowledge of him, the courage and ability to emulate Christ and the strength to be a better person. I also ask God for things such as the health and safety of my sister, who is very mentally ill, and the happiness of my friends and family. I ask God to protect those experiencing discrimination and persecution, and to protect the needy and the suffering. I do not ask God for a car, or a job promotion, or a parking space, or for the stock market to improve and the value of my shares to go up. Nor do I know of any Orthodox who does ask for such things.
Finally, can you recommend some good reading material for a very uninformed potential convert?
'The Orthodox Church' by Timothy Ware is an excellent introductory text to Orthodoxy.
I apologize for the exhaustive length of this reply, but hopefully it has been helpful.
