OrthodoxChristianity.net
November 24, 2014, 12:46:41 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Christian churches in Canada fading out: USA next?  (Read 947 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Robb
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: RC
Jurisdiction: Italian Catholic
Posts: 1,537



« on: February 16, 2010, 08:32:09 PM »

Are things really this bad in Canada?


http://content.usatoday.com/communities/Religion/post/2010/02/christian-churches-in-canada-fading-out-usa-next/1


Olympics fans heading to Vancouver might want to visit a vanishing cultural treasure while they're in Canada -- local churches.


Canada has become a "post-Christian society" where once-dominant Anglicanism has "moved to the margins of public life," according to a bleak study reported by Michael Valpy at the Globe and Mail.

A new assessment of the state of the church in Canada looks at the Anglican Diocese of British Columbia and then across the country and concludes that,

... at the present rate of decline -- a loss of 13,000 members per year -- only one Anglican would be left in Canada by 2061.

... Nationally, between 1961 and 2001, the church lost 53 per cent of its membership, declining to 642,000 from 1.36 million. Between 1991 and 2001 alone, it declined by 20 per cent.

The report zeros in on Vancouver and the adjacent Gulf Islands, suggesting closing or preparing to shutter nearly two in three of its Anglican churches now that the Anglican population is

... one generation away from extinction ... The unchurched are not coming to us.

Only the Roman Catholic Church is holding steady and the report attributes that to immigration.

Religious studies professor David Seljak of St. Jerome's University in Waterloo, Ont., observes that "Canadians increasingly say they're generically "Christian" rather than Anglican, Presbyterian or Pentecostal."

Gee, where have we heard this before?


Surveys in the USA aren't nearly so grim -- yet. But, in the American Religious Identification Survey's three studies over two decades, there's clear evidence of a shift from denominational ties to generic Christian ties -- or out the church doors altogether. The ARIS co-author Barry Kosmin said,

More than ever before, people are just making up their own stories of who they are. They say, "I'm everything. I'm nothing. I believe in myself."


A pastor once told me that he wanted his church's neighbors, even if they never entered the doors, to say, "We're glad you're here."

When happens if -- or when -- they're not? Would you miss your neighboring churches, even if you don't attend?
Logged

Men may dislike truth, men may find truth offensive and inconvenient, men may persecute the truth, subvert it, try by law to suppress it. But to maintain that men have the final power over truth is blasphemy, and the last delusion. Truth lives forever, men do not.
-- Gustave Flaubert
Entscheidungsproblem
Formerly Friul & Nebelpfade
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Machine God
Posts: 4,495



WWW
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2010, 09:00:30 PM »

Hardly surprises me that Church attendance continues to decrease.  The faiths with the strongest growth and the Christian parishes that tend to hold onto members (though, not their youth) are typically those with a strong recent immigrant backing.  Canada is typically placed somewhere between the US and UK in terms of our religious nature.
Logged

As a result of a thousand million years of evolution, the universe is becoming conscious of itself, able to understand something of its past history and its possible future.
-- Sir Julian Sorell Huxley FRS
John of the North
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christianity
Jurisdiction: Eparchy of Edmonton and the West
Posts: 3,533


Christ is Risen!

tgild
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2010, 11:28:45 PM »

Are things really this bad in Canada?

Don't tell me you were asleep all throughout the decline and fall of the Christian West as we know it??
Logged

"Christianity is not a philosophy, not a doctrine, but life." - Elder Sophrony (Sakharov)
Robb
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: RC
Jurisdiction: Italian Catholic
Posts: 1,537



« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2010, 01:56:28 AM »

I've heard that Canada is much more secular then the USA, but are things up there as dreary as articles like this seem to portray?  Between stories like this and those that come out on Western Europe, you would assume that almost everyone there has openly rejected faith in God and connection to organized religion and jumped headfirst into the arms of secular humanism.

Somehow I just can't believe that things in Canada are as bad as they are portrayed in the (Mostly U.S.) media.  These stories bear a striking resemblance to the oldSoviet propaganda which proclaimed that Russia was "completely Atheist".  It just dosen't sound that believable to me, more like a gross oversimplification of things which I'm sure have more complex roots then the media cares to delve into.

Logged

Men may dislike truth, men may find truth offensive and inconvenient, men may persecute the truth, subvert it, try by law to suppress it. But to maintain that men have the final power over truth is blasphemy, and the last delusion. Truth lives forever, men do not.
-- Gustave Flaubert
GiC
Resident Atheist
Site Supporter
Merarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Mathematician
Posts: 9,490



« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2010, 02:18:40 AM »

I've heard that Canada is much more secular then the USA, but are things up there as dreary as articles like this seem to portray?  Between stories like this and those that come out on Western Europe, you would assume that almost everyone there has openly rejected faith in God and connection to organized religion and jumped headfirst into the arms of secular humanism.

Somehow I just can't believe that things in Canada are as bad as they are portrayed in the (Mostly U.S.) media.  These stories bear a striking resemblance to the oldSoviet propaganda which proclaimed that Russia was "completely Atheist".  It just dosen't sound that believable to me, more like a gross oversimplification of things which I'm sure have more complex roots then the media cares to delve into.

Considering the strong statistical inverse correlation between education/intelligence and religious belief, it doesn't seem that shocking, it logically seems to be the natural progression of society.
Logged

"The liberties of people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." -- Patrick Henry
John Larocque
Catholic
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Jurisdiction: Antiochian Orthodox
Posts: 530


« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2010, 02:29:30 AM »

Anglicanism was always more entrenched in Canada, a former British colony, than its counterpart south of the 49th. Immigration from non-Anglican (i.e. non-British) countries has done much to dilute the percentage of Canadians who identified with the Church of England. Also, there has been a (not-so) slow drift towards liberalism by both Anglicans and main-line Protestants as parishes get older. In the past two generations, a large chunk of immigrants are coming from non-Christian countries like China, India and Pakistan. Wave after wave of this is having an impact.

Evangelicals aren't as prominent in Canada as they are in the U.S., although the current Prime Minister is evangelical. Our last evangelical Prime Minister was John Diefenbaker in the 1960s. He was followed by a number of nominal Catholic politicians, including Pierre Trudeau who paved the way for legalized abortion and no-fault divorce. It's been a lot of fun up here the past few decades.

Quebec, demographically, is in a place all its own. The largely francophone and Catholic society has seen a meltdown in religiosity since the cultural revolution of the 1960s. The main nationalist left wing separatist party (following the Europeans) is beating the drums for an openly secularist and hostile stance against religion, although this is largely against Muslims, not the thoroughly secularist (and demograghically shrinking) francophone majority.

When it comes to religion as a whole, I think Canada could be in worse shape. But as someone who used to worship Anglican, and who appreciates Church of England architecture and the King Jame Bible, I have a huge soft spot for them and sympathize with them. One of the landmark publications urging them to "go liberal" and modern was Pierre Berton's "The Comfortable Pew." (A lot of good it did them) Like their episcopalian counterparts in the U.S., they buried the Book of Common prayer with a new modernized liturgy. Prayerbook.ca (which follows the 1962 Canadian BCP) gives you a rundown of some of the liturgical changes they've went through. It is somewhat parallel with what happened in the RCC and its revised 1970 missal.

Anyway, in short, this article reflects more on the decline of the Anglican Communion (and to a lesser extent, mainline Protestants) than anything else. Our main protestant denominations in Canada are the Lutherans and the United Church (a fusion of Presbyterians and Methodists).

« Last Edit: February 17, 2010, 02:30:01 AM by John Larocque » Logged
John of the North
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christianity
Jurisdiction: Eparchy of Edmonton and the West
Posts: 3,533


Christ is Risen!

tgild
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2010, 03:48:12 AM »

I've heard that Canada is much more secular then the USA, but are things up there as dreary as articles like this seem to portray?  Between stories like this and those that come out on Western Europe, you would assume that almost everyone there has openly rejected faith in God and connection to organized religion and jumped headfirst into the arms of secular humanism.

Somehow I just can't believe that things in Canada are as bad as they are portrayed in the (Mostly U.S.) media.  These stories bear a striking resemblance to the oldSoviet propaganda which proclaimed that Russia was "completely Atheist".  It just doesn't sound that believable to me, more like a gross oversimplification of things which I'm sure have more complex roots then the media cares to delve into.



It's pretty bad I'm not going to lie. Especially when I'm on my university campus. At the same time, we still have alot of overtly Christian symbols in our government, national anthem, etc.
Logged

"Christianity is not a philosophy, not a doctrine, but life." - Elder Sophrony (Sakharov)
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,963



« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2010, 07:03:28 AM »

I've heard that Canada is much more secular then the USA, but are things up there as dreary as articles like this seem to portray?  Between stories like this and those that come out on Western Europe, you would assume that almost everyone there has openly rejected faith in God and connection to organized religion and jumped headfirst into the arms of secular humanism.

Somehow I just can't believe that things in Canada are as bad as they are portrayed in the (Mostly U.S.) media.  These stories bear a striking resemblance to the oldSoviet propaganda which proclaimed that Russia was "completely Atheist".  It just dosen't sound that believable to me, more like a gross oversimplification of things which I'm sure have more complex roots then the media cares to delve into.

Considering the strong statistical inverse correlation between education/intelligence and religious belief, it doesn't seem that shocking, it logically seems to be the natural progression of society.
Having witnessed the religious takeover of the University of Chicago, I'm curious if you could put some date behind your assertions.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
genesisone
Archon
********
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antioch
Posts: 2,521



« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2010, 09:59:45 AM »

Somehow I just can't believe that things in Canada are as bad as they are portrayed in the (Mostly U.S.) media.  These stories bear a striking resemblance to the oldSoviet propaganda which proclaimed that Russia was "completely Atheist".  It just dosen't sound that believable to me, more like a gross oversimplification of things which I'm sure have more complex roots then the media cares to delve into.
It's very good of you to assume that the press has its biases. Religion in Canada, like many other things, is not displayed as demonstratively as in the US, so Americans can easily misread the whole story. Canadians tend to be more like a tranquil river flowing gently through the lowlands, whereas Americans seem to be more like the mountain stream tossing and frothing on its way.

Others in this thread have quite rightly pointed out the decline in confidence in Catholicism and Anglicanism, to which I will add the United Church of Canada which has a strong and large liberal element (as in social gospel rather than life-transforming Gospel). My own priest left the United Church because he could no longer deal with the liberal element. However, I know many Catholics and Anglicans who will admit to being non-practising (i.e. non-attending) but they will insist at the same time that they are Catholic or Anglican. Denominational loyalty is generally stronger here than in the US even though that may not be evident in attendance statistics or even adherence to beliefs and practices.

I will quickly agree that there is a strong element of secularism and far too much "political correctness" especially in the area of religion. Canada does suffer like the western world in general from the disease of "life is really good even if God isn't around so I guess He's really not that important".
Logged
ytterbiumanalyst
Professor Emeritus, CSA
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA Diocese of the Midwest
Posts: 8,790



« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2010, 01:53:08 PM »

Considering the strong statistical inverse correlation between education/intelligence and religious belief, it doesn't seem that shocking, it logically seems to be the natural progression of society.
Having witnessed the religious takeover of the University of Chicago, I'm curious if you could put some date behind your assertions.
Generalization. One incident of a public university being run by religious people does not negate an overall trend toward less religion in a society.

On the other hand, GIC, I would like to see that statistical trend. Could you provide us with some data?
Logged

"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens
GiC
Resident Atheist
Site Supporter
Merarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Mathematician
Posts: 9,490



« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2010, 04:02:15 PM »

Considering the strong statistical inverse correlation between education/intelligence and religious belief, it doesn't seem that shocking, it logically seems to be the natural progression of society.
Having witnessed the religious takeover of the University of Chicago, I'm curious if you could put some date behind your assertions.
Generalization. One incident of a public university being run by religious people does not negate an overall trend toward less religion in a society.

On the other hand, GIC, I would like to see that statistical trend. Could you provide us with some data?

An overview of a handful of studies can be here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence yes, I know, it's a Wikipedia article, but it links to several references at the bottom of the page, if you're interested.

Then there is the article, E.J. Larson and L. Witham, ‘Leading scientists still reject God’, Nature 394(6691):313, 23 July 1998, which outlines the religious beliefs of scientists in 1998 and from two earlier studies dating back to 1914, especially focusing on members of the prestigious NAS. Numbers for the general population to compare are fairly easy to find.

And just to be clear, I'm talking about general trends which are likely heavily skewed by those at the bottom of the intelligence/education hierarchy. It's useful information for discussing sociology and the development of society...but shouldn't be taken personally. Wink
« Last Edit: February 17, 2010, 04:03:33 PM by GiC » Logged

"The liberties of people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." -- Patrick Henry
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.071 seconds with 38 queries.