What exactly is a 'Creationist'? What is an 'Evolutionist'?

[GabrieltheCelt]

Hey y'all,

 I admit right off that I already have an opinion of what these terms mean (surprise!).  But, I also recognize that I am sometimes wrong (rarely, but it happens.  )  I've created this thread in hopes that I can learn from our more learned Science types here at OC.net, especially since they seem to be the most vociferous.  Seriously though, I am genuinely interested in the definitions of these two terms, whether or not they are genuinely at odds with one another, and whether or not either of them are compatible with Holy Orthodoxy.  I realize that this will probably break down in an argument between two camps, and that the question will by no means be answered entirely.  I just hope to gain a better understanding. 

 

[Riddikulus]

Gabriel,

Today is Forgiveness Sunday; if you really hope to gain a better understanding of this topic, do you really want to start a thread that will go into Great Lent with the snide tone of OP? Couldn't you strive for a more conciliatory opening?

[GiC]

Hey y'all,

 I admit right off that I already have an opinion of what these terms mean (surprise!).  But, I also recognize that I am sometimes wrong (rarely, but it happens.  )  I've created this thread in hopes that I can learn from our more learned Science types here at OC.net, especially since they seem to be the most vociferous.  Seriously though, I am genuinely interested in the definitions of these two terms, whether or not they are genuinely at odds with one another, and whether or not either of them are compatible with Holy Orthodoxy.  I realize that this will probably break down in an argument between two camps, and that the question will by no means be answered entirely.  I just hope to gain a better understanding. 

Well, I don't know that it's my position you're asking for, but I'll give it none the less. I think these terms are defined more by social connotations than by technical meanings. I think that over the past few decades the term 'creationist' has pretty much been narrowed down to those who believe in a literal 7 day creation that  happened 6000-10000 years ago and those who want such a belief to be emphasized in education, I wouldn't apply it to advocates of so-called theistic-evolution who are generally just people who accept prevailing scientific theories and wouldn't object to their promulgation, but still hold some religious beliefs. As a side note, I would argue that the 'Intelligent Design' advocates are really just creationists who have attempted to usurp those beliefs of religious people who accept evolution, in order to advance the propaganda and agenda of creationism.

As for 'evolutionist', traditionally it has simply been a term that creationists, for some reason that is beyond me, believe is derogatory to those who hold the prevailing scientific theories. Technically speaking, it would apply to anyone who doesn't think the earth was created 6000 years ago, but it's comes across as almost laughable, akin to calling people who believe in gravity 'gravitationalists' or those who calling those who accept the theory of relativity 'relativists'.

[Tzimis]

Technically speaking. I would for certain state that anybody that believes in a beginning point of a created universe through a creative act and not purely accidental is a creationist. One could go as far as stating that the big band was a creation from god since before that was nothing. But from an Atheistic view that same point in time happened accidentally. Rendering a god powerless or nonexistent. Either way is a guess and the truth lay in the hearts of the created beings. All I know for sure is that God doesn't want to be known through science even though a power that can be called god can be seen daily.

[ialmisry]

Technically speaking. I would for certain state that anybody that believes in a beginning point of a created universe through a creative act and not purely accidental is a creationist. One could go as far as stating that the big band was a creation from god since before that was nothing. But from an Atheistic view that same point in time happened accidentally. Rendering a god powerless or nonexistent. Either way is a guess and the truth lay in the hearts of the created beings. All I know for sure is that God doesn't want to be known through science even though a power that can be called god can be seen daily.

Your definition on Creationist has the backing of history behind it: Creationists have been so defined from before Christ.

I would, on the basis of the history of this argument, state that an evolutionist is one who a) denies any starting point (in the case of the big bang, the bang just came from pre-existent physical/natural universe) and b) denies intelligent/personal forces but instead insists on impersonal forces at work in the universe.

I acknowledge that this gives a lot of overlapp (Deists as Creationists, Hinus as Evolutionists), but then, I'm not one to say the issue is so simple and cut and dry.

[Iconodule]

If by "creationist" we are talking more narrowly of the modern advocates of "creation science" and "intelligent design," then here is how I would frame the distinction:

Evolutionists accept the modern dualist philosophy (traceable to the medieval revival of Aristotle in the West) which informs modern science, and conclude from the findings of modern science that life forms evolved in a manner largely conforming to Darwin's model.

"Creationists" accept the same dualist philosophy, but, in an attempt to make it compatible with Christian teaching, distort and misinterpret the findings of modern science to make it support the model presented in Genesis.

I think Orthodox Christians should reject both models because they are both dualist at the core.

[GabrieltheCelt]

I believe that God created the world but I cannot say for certain how long it took.  I believe that God created the world in a certain manner, but endowed us with free-will.  Because of this free-will, from the time the world was created until now things have drastically changed.  I haven't read enough about genetic mutation and such, but I don't think that goes against Orthodoxy and vice versa.  I do not believe that we have descended from apes or monkey's (even though I am familiar with the term hominid).  But I think Orthodox Christian's are open to differing possibilities than are Evangelical or other sects.

I'm beginning to view GiC's explanation that the words 'Creationist' and 'Evolutionist' mean different things to different people and at times, don't really mean anything; just made up words of little demagogues.  In a way, it reminds me of the language that Orthodox Christians and Evangelical's use; often the same words are used but understood completely different to each other.

 

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