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Author Topic: Brazil mayor bans funk, rap music as Carnival begins  (Read 2216 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: February 12, 2010, 06:31:06 PM »

It's good see some people taking a stand for their traditional culture and against the modernizing , Americanizing trends that plague our world.


http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE61B2PY20100212


RIO DE JANEIRO (Reuters) - A mayor of a Brazilian town has banned Carnival revelers from playing funk or rap music during the traditionally free-wheeling celebrations that kick off around the country on Friday.

Mayor Jose Neto of Sao Lourenco in southeastern Minas Gerais state told Globo television he was banning songs that incite violence and disrespect authority and wanted to protect more traditional Carnival music, such as samba.

Anyone caught listening to funk -- a pounding beat often with sexual lyrics popular in Rio de Janeiro's slums -- or rap during the Carnival period would have to turn it off or face arrest and up to six months in prison, he reportedly said.

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« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2010, 06:42:04 PM »

It's good see some people taking a stand for their traditional culture and against the modernizing , Americanizing trends that plague our world.


http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE61B2PY20100212


RIO DE JANEIRO (Reuters) - A mayor of a Brazilian town has banned Carnival revelers from playing funk or rap music during the traditionally free-wheeling celebrations that kick off around the country on Friday.

Mayor Jose Neto of Sao Lourenco in southeastern Minas Gerais state told Globo television he was banning songs that incite violence and disrespect authority and wanted to protect more traditional Carnival music, such as samba.

Anyone caught listening to funk -- a pounding beat often with sexual lyrics popular in Rio de Janeiro's slums -- or rap during the Carnival period would have to turn it off or face arrest and up to six months in prison, he reportedly said.

Nothing like taking a brave stand against the freedom of expression. Roll Eyes
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« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2010, 06:42:40 PM »

Quote
It's good see some people taking a stand for their traditional culture and against the modernizing , Americanizing trends that plague our world.

Seems to be a drop in the bucket. I googled for some other stories on this event. Apparently artists such as Madonna, Beyonce and Alicia Keys will still be performing. And don't forget the 7 year old "carnival queen"...

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« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2010, 07:13:38 PM »

You can't spell crap without rap, as my bandmates used to say.   It may be oppressive to freedom of expression, but the chance to be free from this awful noise even if by law, doesn't really sound that bad.
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« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2010, 08:07:04 PM »

It's good see some people taking a stand for their traditional culture and against the modernizing , Americanizing trends that plague our world.


http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE61B2PY20100212


RIO DE JANEIRO (Reuters) - A mayor of a Brazilian town has banned Carnival revelers from playing funk or rap music during the traditionally free-wheeling celebrations that kick off around the country on Friday.

Mayor Jose Neto of Sao Lourenco in southeastern Minas Gerais state told Globo television he was banning songs that incite violence and disrespect authority and wanted to protect more traditional Carnival music, such as samba.

Anyone caught listening to funk -- a pounding beat often with sexual lyrics popular in Rio de Janeiro's slums -- or rap during the Carnival period would have to turn it off or face arrest and up to six months in prison, he reportedly said.



People are strange, aren't we?
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« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2010, 08:23:58 PM »

It may be oppressive to freedom of expression, but the chance to be free from this awful noise even if by law, doesn't really sound that bad.

Good pun if you intended it.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2010, 08:24:13 PM by Alveus Lacuna » Logged
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« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2010, 02:52:29 PM »


I know it's old news, but just as a note, funk parties have long dettached from its American origins in Rio. It has been adopted by the drugs traffic and commonly incites to pedophily, promiscuity and violence in no equivocal words. They are know to be "guarded" by traffic soldiers heavily armed and to have explicit sex, not rarely involving the party goers including minors.

More than just "the man" trying to smash "the excluded" it is of common police order.
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« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2010, 03:40:16 PM »

It's good see some people taking a stand for their traditional culture and against the modernizing , Americanizing trends that plague our world.


http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE61B2PY20100212


RIO DE JANEIRO (Reuters) - A mayor of a Brazilian town has banned Carnival revelers from playing funk or rap music during the traditionally free-wheeling celebrations that kick off around the country on Friday.

Mayor Jose Neto of Sao Lourenco in southeastern Minas Gerais state told Globo television he was banning songs that incite violence and disrespect authority and wanted to protect more traditional Carnival music, such as samba.

Anyone caught listening to funk -- a pounding beat often with sexual lyrics popular in Rio de Janeiro's slums -- or rap during the Carnival period would have to turn it off or face arrest and up to six months in prison, he reportedly said.

I don't understand why you see this as being a "good thing"? It's not like that carnival isn't sexual, and it's not like samba isn't sexual. Did they band rock music? That too is "American"! The whole event itself is base and carnal......so what's the point? The people who are being oppressed like that should sue the mayor if they can. For rap and funk in and of themselves are neither good or evil. What makes something good or evil is how you use it. What makes something good or evil is the personal human will.............As seen here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rerU_NYwD8 (far away)

and here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRK7VLTTrZQ&feature=channel  (We can be more) A personal friend of mine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdpQ8B1j3Vo (Know This) Personal friends of mine as well


To clown whole genres of music like that is to be more than ignorant and bigoted!  It makes "evil" something of nature instead of something that comes from the human will. Is the flute evil? What about the guitar? What about drums? What about the banjo? What about the piano? Organ?...........etc.

What makes something good or evil is the person who makes it!


Also, I'm not surprised for Brazil is an extremely racist, bigoted and oppressive country. And why would anyone defend this base carnival in the first place? The whole thing reminds me of Sodom and Gomorrah! So why are you as a religious person defended such a base thing?











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« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2010, 04:35:55 PM »

Carnivale in July? I thought it was the week leading up to Ash Weds?
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« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2010, 04:42:02 PM »

Jnorm,

I think you don't know what you're talking about.

I'm not talking about sensual dancing like samba. And not, *traditional* street Carnival is not something promiscuous but something the family can go together. There *is* promiscuity during Carnival, but it is not what it is. Brazilian Carnival is about wearing costumes, street parties, joyfullness and celebration. Most street parties you could take your parish priest, your grandmother and your children with no problem. But if you go to the red light districts, where many - but not most -foreigners go, you know what you'll find.

Brazilian funk is not about lyrics that talk of generic freedom of spirit that are demonized by moralists.

I'm talking about lyrics like this (warning! Pornographic language!)

DJ solta o tamborzão
DJ bring on the drum!

É prost, é prostituto
É prost, é prostituto
Mas eu quero é dizer prostituto(3x)
It's prost, it's prostitute (a male one)
It's prost, it's prostitute
But I want to say prostitute

As novinha tão chapada
O baile ta lotadão
Se exibindo pro DJ
Rebolando até o chão

The young little girls are high
The ball is crowded
They show themselves off to the DJ
Shaking their b**ty to the floor (Rebolar means to walk or dance shaking that particular part of the body)

Elas já fazem a fila
Na maior empolgação
Com marquinha de biquini
Rebolando o popozão

They make a line
Very excited
With bikini marks
Shaking their big b**ts

Ele solta a sequência
E faz a sua fama
O DJ que é prostituto
Sempre leva uma pra cama
He drops the playlist
And makes his fame
The DJ who is a prostitute
And always takes one to bed

Or like this one where drug sellers, murderers, and kidnappers are glamourized and blasphemously associated with God and banditism in general is complimented.

Parapapapapapapa
Paparapapapapapa
paraapapapapapa kla que bum
parapapapapa
(onomatopee of a machine gun shooting)

Morro do Dende é ruim de invadir
Nós com os alemão vamos se divertir
Por que no Dende eu vou dizer como é que é
The Dende Hill is tough to invade
We will have fun with the germans ("German" is a slang among drug dealers meaning "enemy")
Because I will tell what's it like in Dende

Aqui não tem mole nem pra DRE
Pra subir aqui no morro até a BOPE Treme
Não tem mole pro Exército, Civil nem pra PM
Eu Dou o maior conceito para os amigos meus
Mas morro do Dende,Também é Terra de Deus

Here we are not soft with the DRE
To come up here even the BOPE shakes
It's not soft for the Army, the Civil nor the PM
I respect all my friends
But Dende hill is also a Land of God. (DRE, BOPE, Civil and PM are all police related groups)

Fé em Deus! DJ
Vamo Lá!

Faith in God! DJ
C'mon!

Vem um de AR15 e outro de 12 na mão
Vem mais um de pistola e outro com 3 oitão
Um vai de Uru na frente,escoltando o camburão
Vem mais dois na retaguarda mas tão de Glock na mão.

One comes with an AR15, the other with a 12 in hand
Another comes with a pistol, the other with a big 38
One goes at the front with an Uru, guarding the car
Two more are at the back by with a Glock in hand

Amigos que eu não esqueço,nem deixo pra depois
Lá vem dois irmãozinhos,de 762
Dando tiro pro alto só pra fazer teste
de InaIntratec Pisto,Uzi ou fuzil
É que eles são bandido ruim e ninguém trabalha
De AK47 na outra mão a metralha
Esse rap é maneiro eu digo pra vocês

Friends who I don't forget, nor I leave for later
There comes two brothers with 762s
Shooting up just to test
with InaIntratec Pisto, Uzi or rifle
It's because they are mean criminals and nobody works
With an AK47 and in the other hand a machine gun
This rap is cool, I tell you

Quem é aqueles caras de M16
A Vizinhança dessa massa já diz que não aguenta
Na entrada da favela já tem ponto 50
E Se tu tomar um "PÁ" será que você grita?
Seja de ponto 50 ou então de ponto 30
Mas se for alemão,eu não deixo pra amanhã
Acabo com safado dou-lhe um tiro de FAZAN
Por que esses alemão,são tudo safado
Vem de Garrucha velha dá dois tiro e saí vuado
E se não for de revólver,eu quebro na porrada
E Finalizo o rap detonando de granada!
Who are those guys with M16s?
The neighbourhood of this group can't stand them anymore
At the entrance of the slum there is already a .50
And if you get a 'Bang" would you shout?
With a .50 or else a .30
But if it is a german, I don't wait for tomorrow
I finish the a**h*le with FAZAN shot
Because these germans are all dumba***
They come with old guns, give two shots and run away (mention to the fact that the police is extremely underarmed compared to the criminals)
And if it's not with a revolver, I crush them with my hands
And I finish my rap detonating a grenade (this is not an exageration. My cousin had a lottery shop and the criminals went there *monthly* with grenades threatening to blow up his shop)


This is not a protest song. It's apology of crime and immorality. Their place is in prison. It's *literally* the hymn of criminals. There's no negotiation with these people. They use kids as "soldiers" because they know they'll be freed. They rape, kill and kill with cruelty. Some may reform, but would you bet the life of your children on that? It is culture? Of course it is. But not all cultures have a right to exist. Some are outright evil and harmful and must be destroyed, specially the cultures which think that killing, violence, pedophily and rape are virtues. It is very easy to stand up against old priests in their seventies and eighties and be so indignant. I want to see people be so brave concerning young heavenly armed criminals with no regard for our lives. In very Stockholm style, the real violent predators are excused and even praised while they choose old weak dogs to kick and boast about it.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2010, 04:45:35 PM by Fabio Leite » Logged

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« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2010, 05:23:34 PM »

Then they should attack the content of the music and not the art form itself.  But we both know they won't do that. Also, you don't have to educate me on what explicit rap is......I'm no dummy when it comes to hiphop and rap music. I was raised up with rap music most of my life..........I know how bad it can be, but I also know how good it can be as well. Like I said before.......it's about the people who do it, and not necessarily the art form itself. We have rap songs up here about shooting police, crime, sex, violence.......etc.
When I was in the 10th grade I once recorded two songs in the house of a local Pittsburgh rapper named P.O.J.back then in the Wilkinsburg/Larmer area of Pittsburgh. And we were also cool with another local rapper back then from Homewood....another place in Pittsburgh. They were very explicit about killing cops, robbing drug dealers/selling drugs, and having sex. Christian rap is what got me out of all that(when I was in the 11th grade). And so I know how bad rap can be. It's not just a problem in Brazil.

It's good that Brazil wants to clean up some stuff, but they are going about it the wrong way. If they really want to clean up their act, then they should allow churches to evangelize in the ghettos of Brazil. And they should Be more sophisticated by banning the content instead of the artform itself.

Also, you shouldn't be so shocked at their music.......they are partially a product of their environment. It's no secret that Brazil was/is an extremely racist and bigoted country. When you oppress a people group then they will lash out. And when you put drugs in the community then the hedonism and baseness is only gonna get worse, and when the churches aren't reaching out to them then what do you expect to happen? People need a moral center, and when you take that away from them, then they get worse.

But the problem in Brazil isn't just with the people that look like me......yes I'm black........the problem is widespread in Brazil. Brazil is an extremely sexual country, and the problem is not just in the ghettos of Brazil. It's widespread!



 






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« Last Edit: July 19, 2010, 05:42:20 PM by jnorm888 » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2010, 09:32:34 PM »

Then they should attack the content of the music and not the art form itself.  But we both know they won't do that. Also, you don't have to educate me on what explicit rap is......I'm no dummy when it comes to hiphop and rap music. I was raised up with rap music most of my life..........I know how bad it can be, but I also know how good it can be as well. Like I said before.......it's about the people who do it, and not necessarily the art form itself. We have rap songs up here about shooting police, crime, sex, violence.......etc.
When I was in the 10th grade I once recorded two songs in the house of a local Pittsburgh rapper named P.O.J.back then in the Wilkinsburg/Larmer area of Pittsburgh. And we were also cool with another local rapper back then from Homewood....another place in Pittsburgh. They were very explicit about killing cops, robbing drug dealers/selling drugs, and having sex. Christian rap is what got me out of all that(when I was in the 11th grade). And so I know how bad rap can be. It's not just a problem in Brazil.

It's good that Brazil wants to clean up some stuff, but they are going about it the wrong way. If they really want to clean up their act, then they should allow churches to evangelize in the ghettos of Brazil. And they should Be more sophisticated by banning the content instead of the artform itself.

Also, you shouldn't be so shocked at their music.......they are partially a product of their environment. It's no secret that Brazil was/is an extremely racist and bigoted country. When you oppress a people group then they will lash out. And when you put drugs in the community then the hedonism and baseness is only gonna get worse, and when the churches aren't reaching out to them then what do you expect to happen? People need a moral center, and when you take that away from them, then they get worse.

But the problem in Brazil isn't just with the people that look like me......yes I'm black........the problem is widespread in Brazil. Brazil is an extremely sexual country, and the problem is not just in the ghettos of Brazil. It's widespread!



 






ICXC NIKA

Brazil racist? A place where many black people have over 50% of their DNA from Europe and 80% of whites have African DNA? A place where far over 50% of the population is some kind of mestizo between blacks, whites and indians and not unconmonly all the three? A place where it is not rare to have family like mine with a cousin who is blond, white with blue eyes, another that has brown skin and straight black indian hair and mulatos? A place where "my blacky" is equivalent to "my sweetheart" or "honey" among some spouses?

There is a very big difference between a vice existing somewhere and it being an institutionalized part of that society. While the South of the U.S. had the Klan - and not even at this level of organization this means that being a Southern means being racist - during the Brazilian Gold Rush in th 18th century we had black men *and* women being owners of lands and of slaves. We had entire RC congregations made of black people and even one of the Wise Men was usually painted as black. When the country got independent from Portugal, one of the most important literary works that was written in the mood of constructing a national identity was "O Guarani" about an indian as a reference about what being Brazilian was about.

As for a sexualized country, that's just plain stereotyping that is constructed mainly from the (criminal) tourist point of view. The same girl who wears a bikini at the beach gets scandalized when she hears about topless in Europe. And this is not fictitious, it's a comment some female friends I have have made.

As for the excuse of "social conditions", the vast majority of the people in the slums are good decent Evangelicals, most commonly from the Assembly of God or something similar, probably way more conservative than even me. People dance the way they do, sing about what they do, for exactly the same reason some wealthy kids engage in equally reproachable and vulgar activities.

And, no, there is no radical difference between form and content. That is gnosticism. This is something that at least Orthodoxes who study icon theology should understand. Form and content are like body and spirit, seperable only in abstraction. These are violent, aggressive rythms. Good words make things better, but don't solve the problem. It's like using a half-naked model posing for chatisty ads.

And concerning ethnic origins, my mother's side of the family come from the Northeast and both indian and black features are common in the family as they are in that region. Yet, it's from my mother's side that I get my surname "Lins" which is of German origin. My father is Portuguese from the North side of the country, where blond hair and blue eyes are common and where Celts and Visigoths mixed. Yet, black hair and brown eyes are common which suggest mix with the South where the Moors were for so long in Portugal. At the same time, the surname of my father's side is typical of the New Christians, that is, Jews who were forced to pretend to be Christians.

So, there you go. I'm a white-black-indian-moor-german-jew-celt-luso-Brazilian. And each Brazilian can tell a similar story with a similarly wide pool of mixture. Oh my, even during slavery - which by the way was ended *mainly* due to white-lead abolitionists, among whom the very Imperial Family - even during slavery we had the image of the "black mother" who would basically be a black preceptor of the house lord, to the point she would even breastfeed their children and tell them her stories. Now, which Klan member or Nazi would give their "pure" race child to a black woman to breastfeed?

So just to organize the thoughts:

Concerning music: content is important, but more so is form - which in the case of music is the rythm and melody. If improving the words - which speak to the rational aspect of the mind mainly - the more so is improving the rythm. It's like going "Death Wish" to "Ostrov".

Concerning censorship: We don't allow harmful food to be produced. There are way too many cultural products that acting in the spirit through form should be prohibitted too. To be cultural is not sufficient reason. Some cultures *are* pernicious. Culture is not something sacred that can't be touched, changed or put aside.

Concerning racism and oversexualization in Brazil: Stereotypes, like the wise Chinese, the phleumatic British, the flamboyant French and the imperialistic American. The basis on reality of the steoreotype are way to thin to justify it.

Concerning social environment: It influences but doesn't define. Evil, crime and sin exist in all economical and social levels because these people choose so. Poverty does not lead to crime or sin. *That* is one of the greatest prejudices of modern times.

Concerning races: They don't exist. Period. Not for me, not for you. I wouldn't be surprised that a thourough study of your DNA showed influences from many regions of the globe.

About using rap and/or similar things to convert. I know from my own experience that when we are in the middle of the swamp, coming out of it takes a lot of steps into ever shallower mud, but mud nevertheless. One of the things that first made me look in a different perspective to Christianity was "Jesus Christ Superstar". Today I wouldn't waste my time watching it again, so full it is of traps. As St. Paul said, when we mature a bit, we should leave the "things of children" behind. I invite you to consider that it may be time for you to go even further in your experience of Christ, but for that you will have to leave behind some of these things, specially if they are linked with your sense of identity.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2010, 09:41:14 PM by Fabio Leite » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2010, 02:05:03 AM »

Then they should attack the content of the music and not the art form itself.  But we both know they won't do that. Also, you don't have to educate me on what explicit rap is......I'm no dummy when it comes to hiphop and rap music. I was raised up with rap music most of my life..........I know how bad it can be, but I also know how good it can be as well. Like I said before.......it's about the people who do it, and not necessarily the art form itself. We have rap songs up here about shooting police, crime, sex, violence.......etc.
When I was in the 10th grade I once recorded two songs in the house of a local Pittsburgh rapper named P.O.J.back then in the Wilkinsburg/Larmer area of Pittsburgh. And we were also cool with another local rapper back then from Homewood....another place in Pittsburgh. They were very explicit about killing cops, robbing drug dealers/selling drugs, and having sex. Christian rap is what got me out of all that(when I was in the 11th grade). And so I know how bad rap can be. It's not just a problem in Brazil.

It's good that Brazil wants to clean up some stuff, but they are going about it the wrong way. If they really want to clean up their act, then they should allow churches to evangelize in the ghettos of Brazil. And they should Be more sophisticated by banning the content instead of the artform itself.

Also, you shouldn't be so shocked at their music.......they are partially a product of their environment. It's no secret that Brazil was/is an extremely racist and bigoted country. When you oppress a people group then they will lash out. And when you put drugs in the community then the hedonism and baseness is only gonna get worse, and when the churches aren't reaching out to them then what do you expect to happen? People need a moral center, and when you take that away from them, then they get worse.

But the problem in Brazil isn't just with the people that look like me......yes I'm black........the problem is widespread in Brazil. Brazil is an extremely sexual country, and the problem is not just in the ghettos of Brazil. It's widespread!



 






ICXC NIKA

Brazil racist? A place where many black people have over 50% of their DNA from Europe and 80% of whites have African DNA? A place where far over 50% of the population is some kind of mestizo between blacks, whites and indians and not unconmonly all the three? A place where it is not rare to have family like mine with a cousin who is blond, white with blue eyes, another that has brown skin and straight black indian hair and mulatos? A place where "my blacky" is equivalent to "my sweetheart" or "honey" among some spouses?

There is a very big difference between a vice existing somewhere and it being an institutionalized part of that society. While the South of the U.S. had the Klan - and not even at this level of organization this means that being a Southern means being racist - during the Brazilian Gold Rush in th 18th century we had black men *and* women being owners of lands and of slaves. We had entire RC congregations made of black people and even one of the Wise Men was usually painted as black. When the country got independent from Portugal, one of the most important literary works that was written in the mood of constructing a national identity was "O Guarani" about an indian as a reference about what being Brazilian was about.

As for a sexualized country, that's just plain stereotyping that is constructed mainly from the (criminal) tourist point of view. The same girl who wears a bikini at the beach gets scandalized when she hears about topless in Europe. And this is not fictitious, it's a comment some female friends I have have made.

As for the excuse of "social conditions", the vast majority of the people in the slums are good decent Evangelicals, most commonly from the Assembly of God or something similar, probably way more conservative than even me. People dance the way they do, sing about what they do, for exactly the same reason some wealthy kids engage in equally reproachable and vulgar activities.

And, no, there is no radical difference between form and content. That is gnosticism. This is something that at least Orthodoxes who study icon theology should understand. Form and content are like body and spirit, seperable only in abstraction. These are violent, aggressive rythms. Good words make things better, but don't solve the problem. It's like using a half-naked model posing for chatisty ads.

And concerning ethnic origins, my mother's side of the family come from the Northeast and both indian and black features are common in the family as they are in that region. Yet, it's from my mother's side that I get my surname "Lins" which is of German origin. My father is Portuguese from the North side of the country, where blond hair and blue eyes are common and where Celts and Visigoths mixed. Yet, black hair and brown eyes are common which suggest mix with the South where the Moors were for so long in Portugal. At the same time, the surname of my father's side is typical of the New Christians, that is, Jews who were forced to pretend to be Christians.

So, there you go. I'm a white-black-indian-moor-german-jew-celt-luso-Brazilian. And each Brazilian can tell a similar story with a similarly wide pool of mixture. Oh my, even during slavery - which by the way was ended *mainly* due to white-lead abolitionists, among whom the very Imperial Family - even during slavery we had the image of the "black mother" who would basically be a black preceptor of the house lord, to the point she would even breastfeed their children and tell them her stories. Now, which Klan member or Nazi would give their "pure" race child to a black woman to breastfeed?

So just to organize the thoughts:

Concerning music: content is important, but more so is form - which in the case of music is the rythm and melody. If improving the words - which speak to the rational aspect of the mind mainly - the more so is improving the rythm. It's like going "Death Wish" to "Ostrov".

Concerning censorship: We don't allow harmful food to be produced. There are way too many cultural products that acting in the spirit through form should be prohibitted too. To be cultural is not sufficient reason. Some cultures *are* pernicious. Culture is not something sacred that can't be touched, changed or put aside.

Concerning racism and oversexualization in Brazil: Stereotypes, like the wise Chinese, the phleumatic British, the flamboyant French and the imperialistic American. The basis on reality of the steoreotype are way to thin to justify it.

Concerning social environment: It influences but doesn't define. Evil, crime and sin exist in all economical and social levels because these people choose so. Poverty does not lead to crime or sin. *That* is one of the greatest prejudices of modern times.

Concerning races: They don't exist. Period. Not for me, not for you. I wouldn't be surprised that a thourough study of your DNA showed influences from many regions of the globe.

About using rap and/or similar things to convert. I know from my own experience that when we are in the middle of the swamp, coming out of it takes a lot of steps into ever shallower mud, but mud nevertheless. One of the things that first made me look in a different perspective to Christianity was "Jesus Christ Superstar". Today I wouldn't waste my time watching it again, so full it is of traps. As St. Paul said, when we mature a bit, we should leave the "things of children" behind. I invite you to consider that it may be time for you to go even further in your experience of Christ, but for that you will have to leave behind some of these things, specially if they are linked with your sense of identity.


We will have to agree to differ! I agree with some things you said above, but disagree with others. I don't have the time to go into great detail in regards to what I agree with with what I disagree with. But if you go to those carnivals then maybe you are the one that needs to mature and grow up. I'm sticking with christian rap and christian rock! It's far more moral than those carnivals you go to!

There is no place for rock or rap in the churches! It doesn't belong there! But they do have a place in civil society outside of church.....especially if I had a choice to choose between going to a Carnival or a christian rap /rock concert!

I would choose the christian rap / rock concert everytime! I repeat, EVERYTIME! If I had a choice to see one of my favorite christian rap or rock artist vs the artists on MTV, VH1, or BET.......I would choose to go see the christian rap and rock artist EVERYTIME! Christian rap single handedly kept me away from gangs, drugs, and sex(for many years) in highschool and college. This is something you, and your carnivals could never ever do for me! The same with the stuff on MTV, VH1, and BET(booty exposed television)! And as far as content vs form goes! Look, if you refuse to censor Samba and all the other carnal latin stuff then it's hypocritical to do that with African and American stuff. I would rather listen to good content over base music than listen to base content and music. But yes, I know what you mean, and I partly agree. The content and form should match.....but guess what? RAP is nothing more than poetry over music, and so your cultural bias and bigotry bleeds through the keyboard!

And yes if you looked at my DNA you would see alot of western European DNA in me. Why? Alot of African Americans got western European DNA in them.

Why? The western European slave masters couldn't stay out the Barns! That's why!












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« Last Edit: July 22, 2010, 02:30:37 AM by jnorm888 » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2010, 02:50:58 AM »

Fabio,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yn6CII2o2Xs (D Boy)

D Boy(a latino/hispanic christian rapper) was an early christian rapper from the 1980's to early 1990's. He was murdered by a Texas Gang. Why? Because his music single handedly caused alot of Texas kids to  either leave the gang life or not want to join gangs.


Show me an example where your carnivals and carnal latin music in Brazil caused kids to leave gangs? Show me an example where it caused kids to stop doing drugs? Show me an example where it caused kids to want to live a good moral life?

Show me an example where it caused kids to want to obey their parents and do good in school?

Show me an example where it caused kids to want to separate from other kids that want to do bad things?

Christian rap caused me to leave my childhood friends that wanted to do bad! This is something your carnal carnivals and carnal latin music could never ever do for me.......let alone Brazilians in general.












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« Last Edit: July 22, 2010, 02:54:05 AM by jnorm888 » Logged

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« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2010, 04:12:47 AM »

Wow, D-boy Rodriguez.  Takin me back to middle school, Jnorm!

My two cents, music is music.  Oh-no, hyper-sexuality and ultra-violence in lyrical content!!!  It's not like these things don't exist in much older forms of both music and poetry.

Shoot, when you get right down to it, Dante Alighieri and his boys in 14th century Italy invented the battle rap, and the entire content of the Inferno (which contains graphic scenes of violence) is basically one long "dis" to Dante's political and literary rivals.

Don't even get me started on Ovid!

For disrespect against the lawful authority of the land may I present the ballads of Robin Hood?

More recently (within the 20th century) we have the sterling example of Johnny Cash, who apparently shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die.  Buddy Holly told us the signs to watch out for when Annie starts working the Midnight Shift.  Chuck Berry told us of the joys of riding in a car with no particular place to go (and his girlfriend's parents are probably glad that safety belts were much harder to unfasten in those days of yore).

This of course does not say that one SHOULD subject one's mind to such things, but to complain about violence and sexuality as if it were the specific realm of rap and funk is just hypocrisy.

I won't say the mayor in this outdated article was being racist.  He was being an over-authoritarian jackass who was afraid of the music of the youth.  I kind of have a mental image of a Brazilian John Lithgow  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Footloose_%281984_film%29
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« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2010, 12:44:14 PM »

Shoot, when you get right down to it, Dante Alighieri and his boys in 14th century Italy invented the battle rap, and the entire content of the Inferno (which contains graphic scenes of violence) is basically one long "dis" to Dante's political and literary rivals.

Don't even get me started on Ovid!

Hmm, I don't think these works had quite the same spirit or function as a lot of the "battle rap." Dante's torments are not indulgent and often have a tragic character to them. Some of his friends are in there too. As for Ovid, even in the more lurid parts, he tends to be rather detached and breezy.

A more appropriate comparison might be the Icelandic sagas, where one's poetic composition skill needed to be as good as one's combat prowess.
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« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2010, 01:46:06 PM »

Regarding using samba and carnival to help the weak and the poor:

http://www.petrobras.com.br/minisite/desenvolvimento-e-cidadania/noticias/formacao-de-jovens-para-a-industria-do-carnaval/

http://www.anjinhofeliz.org.br/eventos.htm

http://www.acaoeducativa.org.br/agendadaperiferia/samba.html

http://www.acaosocialdobem.com.br/index.php

http://www.rotadosamba.com/curso-acao-social-carnaval.php

http://www.sociedaderosasdeouro.com.br/album_fotos.php?album=30

http://www.profissaomestre.com.br/php/verMateria.php?cod=1111

http://olodum.uol.com.br/modules/mastop_publish/?tac=3

http://www.news.afrobras.org.br/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=357:curso-de-eventos-do-colegio-zumbi-dos-palmares-se-mobiliza-em-prol-ao-concurso-de-samba-enredo&catid=34:noticias&Itemid=55

Never having heard about something is no evidence it doesn't exist and since these are expressions of a national culture and not of an artificial identity, no wonder this kind of initiative would be visible mainly in the country it is linked with.

Considering the good that certain rythms make in helping people, to be fair, they would have to be measured up and balanced to the evil they do. Do we know how many more kids got involved with wrong things inspired by the mainstream concepts of each style?

And no, I don't think rock (or samba) is any better in general. I am particularly learning to be far selective with what I watch and listen too and that beyond the content of the lyrics and of the subject of the images.
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« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2010, 02:08:17 PM »

Is the "Non-Religious Topics" section meant be free of Orthodox perspective?

As well...
To clown whole genres of music like that is to be more than ignorant and bigoted!  It makes "evil" something of nature instead of something that comes from the human will. Is the flute evil? What about the guitar? What about drums? What about the banjo? What about the piano? Organ?...........etc.

What makes something good or evil is the person who makes it!

Also, I'm not surprised for Brazil is an extremely racist, bigoted and oppressive country. And why would anyone defend this base carnival in the first place? The whole thing reminds me of Sodom and Gomorrah! So why are you as a religious person defended such a base thing?

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Jnorm you quite efficiently called someone out for criticizing the particular genre of music you are invested in to immediately turn and criticize Brazil's entire national identity and a cultural expression of which you clearly have little to no perspective on.

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« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2010, 02:20:20 PM »

Carnivale in July? I thought it was the week leading up to Ash Weds?

The thread was started in February.
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« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2010, 02:47:48 PM »

Is the "Non-Religious Topics" section meant be free of Orthodox perspective?

As well...
To clown whole genres of music like that is to be more than ignorant and bigoted!  It makes "evil" something of nature instead of something that comes from the human will. Is the flute evil? What about the guitar? What about drums? What about the banjo? What about the piano? Organ?...........etc.

What makes something good or evil is the person who makes it!

Also, I'm not surprised for Brazil is an extremely racist, bigoted and oppressive country. And why would anyone defend this base carnival in the first place? The whole thing reminds me of Sodom and Gomorrah! So why are you as a religious person defended such a base thing?

ICXC NIKA

Jnorm you quite efficiently called someone out for criticizing the particular genre of music you are invested in to immediately turn and criticize Brazil's entire national identity and a cultural expression of which you clearly have little to no perspective on.




True!


I'm sorry Fabio for being disrespectful to your national culture and country! Please forgive me








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« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2010, 03:05:02 PM »

I'm sorry Fabio for being disrespectful to your national culture and country! Please forgive me

No problem. We would all live happier lives if we understood that we attach our sense of self-identity to secular things too much. We see in the book of Revelation that all nations will stand before God, which means that even cultures will be judged - and we in what we adhered to the evil in our own cultural and sub-cultural groups as well as the good we cultivated in these groups.

I think that if we really want to move from these relativistic times, putting "culture" in its deserved second or third place in our lives is a must. Above all cultures and national identities there is Christ in Whose kingdom we pray we are made worth to abide.
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« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2010, 06:02:00 PM »

Shoot, when you get right down to it, Dante Alighieri and his boys in 14th century Italy invented the battle rap, and the entire content of the Inferno (which contains graphic scenes of violence) is basically one long "dis" to Dante's political and literary rivals.

Don't even get me started on Ovid!

Hmm, I don't think these works had quite the same spirit or function as a lot of the "battle rap." Dante's torments are not indulgent and often have a tragic character to them. Some of his friends are in there too. As for Ovid, even in the more lurid parts, he tends to be rather detached and breezy.

A more appropriate comparison might be the Icelandic sagas, where one's poetic composition skill needed to be as good as one's combat prowess.

That depends.  One can have the "battle rap" without being involved in the "gangsta rap" genre (and most gangsta rappers were never "gangstas" to begin with.  Tupac was an actor!).  It was common from the beginning of rap for one MC to boast of his own skills and dis his opponents (Dante is most certainly boastful, and one can see an echo of his rivalry with Guittone in the Jay-Z/Nas battles of the late 1990's).  Not only does Dante indulge in this earlier form of poetical insult, but it was a common theme throughout Italian poetry of the period, especially between the differing schools of Italian poetry (Dante representing the "sweet new style"), for one side to boast of it's superiority over the other in the game of lyrical mastery (East coast versus west coast, anyone?). 

As for Dante's torments not being indulgent... well, I can't give modern analogies without getting this moved into the politics thread, but lets say I were a British imperialist of the early 19th century and decided to place George Washington in the circle for the rebellious, could I be excused on being indulgent just because I place Benedict Arnold in the 9th circle?
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