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Author Topic: Academics fight rise of creationism at universities  (Read 3246 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: February 12, 2010, 03:52:29 AM »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/feb/21/religion.highereducation


A growing number of science students on British campuses and in sixth form colleges are challenging the theory of evolution and arguing that Darwin was wrong. Some are being failed in university exams because they quote sayings from the Bible or Qur'an as scientific fact and at one sixth form college in London most biology students are now thought to be creationists.
Earlier this month Muslim medical students in London distributed leaflets that dismissed Darwin's theories as false. Evangelical Christian students are also increasingly vocal in challenging the notion of evolution.

In the United States there is growing pressure to teach creationism or "intelligent design" in science classes, despite legal rulings against it. Now similar trends in this country have prompted the Royal Society, Britain's leading scientific academy, to confront the issue head on with a talk entitled Why Creationism is Wrong. The award-winning geneticist and author Steve Jones will deliver the lecture and challenge creationists, Christian and Islamic, to argue their case rationally at the society's event in April.




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« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2010, 04:05:00 AM »

Will they show this online? The Royal society seems to be somewhat behind the times for a good number of creationists have updated their arguments and refined their views after decades of debates and being forced to listen to atheistic evolution in the classroom, tv, mainstream media......etc.










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« Last Edit: February 12, 2010, 04:08:32 AM by jnorm888 » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2010, 04:15:20 AM »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/feb/21/religion.highereducation


A growing number of science students on British campuses and in sixth form colleges are challenging the theory of evolution and arguing that Darwin was wrong. Some are being failed in university exams because they quote sayings from the Bible or Qur'an as scientific fact and at one sixth form college in London most biology students are now thought to be creationists.
Earlier this month Muslim medical students in London distributed leaflets that dismissed Darwin's theories as false. Evangelical Christian students are also increasingly vocal in challenging the notion of evolution.

In the United States there is growing pressure to teach creationism or "intelligent design" in science classes, despite legal rulings against it. Now similar trends in this country have prompted the Royal Society, Britain's leading scientific academy, to confront the issue head on with a talk entitled Why Creationism is Wrong. The award-winning geneticist and author Steve Jones will deliver the lecture and challenge creationists, Christian and Islamic, to argue their case rationally at the society's event in April.


This is a shame. I'm sorry to see creationist fundamentalism affect Britain like this. It might be a flash in the pan, but no doubt I'm being overly optimistic. Go Royal Society! I hope it's not too late to turn the tide.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2010, 04:16:51 AM by Riddikulus » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2010, 04:23:00 AM »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/feb/21/religion.highereducation


A growing number of science students on British campuses and in sixth form colleges are challenging the theory of evolution and arguing that Darwin was wrong. Some are being failed in university exams because they quote sayings from the Bible or Qur'an as scientific fact and at one sixth form college in London most biology students are now thought to be creationists.
Earlier this month Muslim medical students in London distributed leaflets that dismissed Darwin's theories as false. Evangelical Christian students are also increasingly vocal in challenging the notion of evolution.

In the United States there is growing pressure to teach creationism or "intelligent design" in science classes, despite legal rulings against it. Now similar trends in this country have prompted the Royal Society, Britain's leading scientific academy, to confront the issue head on with a talk entitled Why Creationism is Wrong. The award-winning geneticist and author Steve Jones will deliver the lecture and challenge creationists, Christian and Islamic, to argue their case rationally at the society's event in April.


This is a shame. I'm sorry to see creationist fundamentalism affect Britain like this. It might be a flash in the pan, but no doubt I'm being overly optimistic. Go Royal Society! I hope it's not too late to turn the tide.

Creationism has always been in Britain. Have you ever heard of the late great Dr. A.E. Wilder-Smith(Young Earth Creationist)?

In modern times, I have noticed a good number of theistic evolutionists in great Britain as well. Many of whom are academics at colleges and universities.

Men like Dr. Alister Mcgrath, Dr. John Lennox, and many others.


http://blip.tv/file/get/Apologetics-ConversationBetweenRichardDawkinsAndJohnLennox395.mp3(Conversation between Richard Dawkins and John Lennox)






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« Last Edit: February 12, 2010, 04:28:26 AM by jnorm888 » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2010, 04:27:33 AM »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/feb/21/religion.highereducation


A growing number of science students on British campuses and in sixth form colleges are challenging the theory of evolution and arguing that Darwin was wrong. Some are being failed in university exams because they quote sayings from the Bible or Qur'an as scientific fact and at one sixth form college in London most biology students are now thought to be creationists.
Earlier this month Muslim medical students in London distributed leaflets that dismissed Darwin's theories as false. Evangelical Christian students are also increasingly vocal in challenging the notion of evolution.

In the United States there is growing pressure to teach creationism or "intelligent design" in science classes, despite legal rulings against it. Now similar trends in this country have prompted the Royal Society, Britain's leading scientific academy, to confront the issue head on with a talk entitled Why Creationism is Wrong. The award-winning geneticist and author Steve Jones will deliver the lecture and challenge creationists, Christian and Islamic, to argue their case rationally at the society's event in April.


This is a shame. I'm sorry to see creationist fundamentalism affect Britain like this. It might be a flash in the pan, but no doubt I'm being overly optimistic. Go Royal Society! I hope it's not too late to turn the tide.

Creationism has always been in Britain. Have you ever heard of the late great Dr. A.E. Wilder-Smith (Young Earth Creationist) ?

Yes, I have attended many of his lectures; a wonderful man. However, I was referring to the affect that the growing Creationist fundamentalist sector is having on Britain; not that there were never Creationists present in the country.

Quote
In modern times, I have noticed a good number of theistic evolutionists in great Britain as well. Many of whom are academics at colleges and universities.

Men like Dr. Alister Mcgrath, Dr. John Lennox, and many others.

None of whom would refer to themselves as Creationists, as far as I recall. Dr McGrath is quite outspoken against pseudo-sciences like Creation-science and Intelligent Design.








« Last Edit: February 12, 2010, 04:28:26 AM by Riddikulus » Logged

I believe in One God, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
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« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2010, 04:33:56 AM »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/feb/21/religion.highereducation


A growing number of science students on British campuses and in sixth form colleges are challenging the theory of evolution and arguing that Darwin was wrong. Some are being failed in university exams because they quote sayings from the Bible or Qur'an as scientific fact and at one sixth form college in London most biology students are now thought to be creationists.
Earlier this month Muslim medical students in London distributed leaflets that dismissed Darwin's theories as false. Evangelical Christian students are also increasingly vocal in challenging the notion of evolution.

In the United States there is growing pressure to teach creationism or "intelligent design" in science classes, despite legal rulings against it. Now similar trends in this country have prompted the Royal Society, Britain's leading scientific academy, to confront the issue head on with a talk entitled Why Creationism is Wrong. The award-winning geneticist and author Steve Jones will deliver the lecture and challenge creationists, Christian and Islamic, to argue their case rationally at the society's event in April.


This is a shame. I'm sorry to see creationist fundamentalism affect Britain like this. It might be a flash in the pan, but no doubt I'm being overly optimistic. Go Royal Society! I hope it's not too late to turn the tide.

Creationism has always been in Britain. Have you ever heard of the late great Dr. A.E. Wilder-Smith (Young Earth Creationist) ?

Yes, I have attended many of his lectures; a wonderful man. However, I was referring to the affect that the growing Creationist fundamentalist sector is having on Britain; not that there were never Creationists present in the country.

Quote
In modern times, I have noticed a good number of theistic evolutionists in great Britain as well. Many of whom are academics at colleges and universities.

Men like Dr. Alister Mcgrath, Dr. John Lennox, and many others.

Quote
None of whom would refer to themselves as Creationists, as far as I recall. Dr McGrath is quite outspoken against pseudo-sciences like Creation-science and Intelligent Design.


Theistic evolutionists are creationists, even if they deny it. They only want to reserve the word "creationist" to young Earthers only. But if you believe that God created from ex nihilo, then you are automatically a creationist.......no matter what. I know of one Theistic evolutionist in America that likes to use the term "creation evolutionist".







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« Last Edit: February 12, 2010, 04:38:04 AM by jnorm888 » Logged

"loving one's enemies does not mean loving wickedness, ungodliness, adultery, or theft. Rather, it means loving the theif, the ungodly, and the adulterer." Clement of Alexandria 195 A.D.

http://ancientchristiandefender.blogspot.com/
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« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2010, 05:01:07 AM »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/feb/21/religion.highereducation


A growing number of science students on British campuses and in sixth form colleges are challenging the theory of evolution and arguing that Darwin was wrong. Some are being failed in university exams because they quote sayings from the Bible or Qur'an as scientific fact and at one sixth form college in London most biology students are now thought to be creationists.
Earlier this month Muslim medical students in London distributed leaflets that dismissed Darwin's theories as false. Evangelical Christian students are also increasingly vocal in challenging the notion of evolution.

In the United States there is growing pressure to teach creationism or "intelligent design" in science classes, despite legal rulings against it. Now similar trends in this country have prompted the Royal Society, Britain's leading scientific academy, to confront the issue head on with a talk entitled Why Creationism is Wrong. The award-winning geneticist and author Steve Jones will deliver the lecture and challenge creationists, Christian and Islamic, to argue their case rationally at the society's event in April.


This is a shame. I'm sorry to see creationist fundamentalism affect Britain like this. It might be a flash in the pan, but no doubt I'm being overly optimistic. Go Royal Society! I hope it's not too late to turn the tide.

Creationism has always been in Britain. Have you ever heard of the late great Dr. A.E. Wilder-Smith (Young Earth Creationist) ?

Yes, I have attended many of his lectures; a wonderful man. However, I was referring to the affect that the growing Creationist fundamentalist sector is having on Britain; not that there were never Creationists present in the country.

Quote
In modern times, I have noticed a good number of theistic evolutionists in great Britain as well. Many of whom are academics at colleges and universities.

Men like Dr. Alister Mcgrath, Dr. John Lennox, and many others.

Quote
None of whom would refer to themselves as Creationists, as far as I recall. Dr McGrath is quite outspoken against pseudo-sciences like Creation-science and Intelligent Design.


Theistic evolutionists are creationists, even if they deny it. They only want to reserve the word "creationist" to young Earthers only. But if you believe that God created from ex nihilo, then you are automatically a creationist.......no matter what. I know of one Theistic evolutionist in America that likes to use the term "creation evolutionist".

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Creationism could be said to be any religious belief that the universe was created in some way by a supernatural being (or beings), not just Christian and not just young-earthers. But nowadays, the term is regularly applied to the denial that biological processes such as evolution explain the history, diversity, and complexity of life on earth. Amongst Christian and Jewish sects creationism is based on an insistence that the creation account found in Genesis be taken literally, which is why so many Christians refuse the label of Creationist.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2010, 05:02:08 AM by Riddikulus » Logged

I believe in One God, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
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« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2010, 05:17:17 AM »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/feb/21/religion.highereducation


A growing number of science students on British campuses and in sixth form colleges are challenging the theory of evolution and arguing that Darwin was wrong. Some are being failed in university exams because they quote sayings from the Bible or Qur'an as scientific fact and at one sixth form college in London most biology students are now thought to be creationists.
Earlier this month Muslim medical students in London distributed leaflets that dismissed Darwin's theories as false. Evangelical Christian students are also increasingly vocal in challenging the notion of evolution.

In the United States there is growing pressure to teach creationism or "intelligent design" in science classes, despite legal rulings against it. Now similar trends in this country have prompted the Royal Society, Britain's leading scientific academy, to confront the issue head on with a talk entitled Why Creationism is Wrong. The award-winning geneticist and author Steve Jones will deliver the lecture and challenge creationists, Christian and Islamic, to argue their case rationally at the society's event in April.


This is a shame. I'm sorry to see creationist fundamentalism affect Britain like this. It might be a flash in the pan, but no doubt I'm being overly optimistic. Go Royal Society! I hope it's not too late to turn the tide.

Creationism has always been in Britain. Have you ever heard of the late great Dr. A.E. Wilder-Smith (Young Earth Creationist) ?

Yes, I have attended many of his lectures; a wonderful man. However, I was referring to the affect that the growing Creationist fundamentalist sector is having on Britain; not that there were never Creationists present in the country.

Quote
In modern times, I have noticed a good number of theistic evolutionists in great Britain as well. Many of whom are academics at colleges and universities.

Men like Dr. Alister Mcgrath, Dr. John Lennox, and many others.

Quote
None of whom would refer to themselves as Creationists, as far as I recall. Dr McGrath is quite outspoken against pseudo-sciences like Creation-science and Intelligent Design.


Theistic evolutionists are creationists, even if they deny it. They only want to reserve the word "creationist" to young Earthers only. But if you believe that God created from ex nihilo, then you are automatically a creationist.......no matter what. I know of one Theistic evolutionist in America that likes to use the term "creation evolutionist".

ICXC NIKA

Creationism could be said to be any religious belief that the universe was created in some way by a supernatural being (or beings), not just Christian and not just young-earthers. But nowadays, the term is regularly applied to the denial that biological processes such as evolution explain the history, diversity, and complexity of life on earth. Amongst Christian and Jewish sects creationism is based on an insistence that the creation account found in Genesis be taken literally, which is why so many Christians refuse the label of Creationist.

Understood.



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« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2010, 02:35:13 PM »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/feb/21/religion.highereducation


A growing number of science students on British campuses and in sixth form colleges are challenging the theory of evolution and arguing that Darwin was wrong. Some are being failed in university exams because they quote sayings from the Bible or Qur'an as scientific fact and at one sixth form college in London most biology students are now thought to be creationists.
Earlier this month Muslim medical students in London distributed leaflets that dismissed Darwin's theories as false. Evangelical Christian students are also increasingly vocal in challenging the notion of evolution.

In the United States there is growing pressure to teach creationism or "intelligent design" in science classes, despite legal rulings against it. Now similar trends in this country have prompted the Royal Society, Britain's leading scientific academy, to confront the issue head on with a talk entitled Why Creationism is Wrong. The award-winning geneticist and author Steve Jones will deliver the lecture and challenge creationists, Christian and Islamic, to argue their case rationally at the society's event in April.

Why is it that creationists quote holy books and distribute leaflets while evolutionists perform research and publish journal articles? And this isn't just because science has universally adopted the theory of evolution, the same was true when evolution was a new theory and a minority opinion over a century ago.

If someone wants to challenge a prevailing scientific theory, that's fine...heck, I strongly object to the dogmatization of string theory amongst certain schools of theoretical physics. But this is science, not politics...present research, don't start a PR campaign.
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« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2010, 09:14:17 AM »

A growing number of science students on British campuses and in sixth form colleges are challenging the theory of evolution and arguing that Darwin was wrong.
Hey, great. I'm glad to see that we're moving forward in our understanding of biological processes. What's the new evidence they've presented?

they quote sayings from the Bible or Qur'an as scientific fact
Oh, I see. Nevermind.
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« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2010, 09:31:42 AM »

Will they show this online? The Royal society seems to be somewhat behind the times for a good number of creationists have updated their arguments and refined their views after decades of debates and being forced to listen to atheistic evolution in the classroom, tv, mainstream media......etc.

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No doubt it will be on Youtube, whether the Royal society wants it to or not.
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« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2010, 09:32:48 AM »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/feb/21/religion.highereducation


A growing number of science students on British campuses and in sixth form colleges are challenging the theory of evolution and arguing that Darwin was wrong. Some are being failed in university exams because they quote sayings from the Bible or Qur'an as scientific fact and at one sixth form college in London most biology students are now thought to be creationists.
Earlier this month Muslim medical students in London distributed leaflets that dismissed Darwin's theories as false. Evangelical Christian students are also increasingly vocal in challenging the notion of evolution.

In the United States there is growing pressure to teach creationism or "intelligent design" in science classes, despite legal rulings against it. Now similar trends in this country have prompted the Royal Society, Britain's leading scientific academy, to confront the issue head on with a talk entitled Why Creationism is Wrong. The award-winning geneticist and author Steve Jones will deliver the lecture and challenge creationists, Christian and Islamic, to argue their case rationally at the society's event in April.


This is a shame. I'm sorry to see creationist fundamentalism affect Britain like this. It might be a flash in the pan, but no doubt I'm being overly optimistic. Go Royal Society! I hope it's not too late to turn the tide.

Creationism has always been in Britain. Have you ever heard of the late great Dr. A.E. Wilder-Smith(Young Earth Creationist)?

In modern times, I have noticed a good number of theistic evolutionists in great Britain as well. Many of whom are academics at colleges and universities.

Men like Dr. Alister Mcgrath, Dr. John Lennox, and many others.


http://blip.tv/file/get/Apologetics-ConversationBetweenRichardDawkinsAndJohnLennox395.mp3(Conversation between Richard Dawkins and John Lennox)

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Maybe the Brits can come up with their version of "Expelled."
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« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2010, 09:49:32 AM »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/feb/21/religion.highereducation


A growing number of science students on British campuses and in sixth form colleges are challenging the theory of evolution and arguing that Darwin was wrong. Some are being failed in university exams because they quote sayings from the Bible or Qur'an as scientific fact and at one sixth form college in London most biology students are now thought to be creationists.
Earlier this month Muslim medical students in London distributed leaflets that dismissed Darwin's theories as false. Evangelical Christian students are also increasingly vocal in challenging the notion of evolution.

In the United States there is growing pressure to teach creationism or "intelligent design" in science classes, despite legal rulings against it. Now similar trends in this country have prompted the Royal Society, Britain's leading scientific academy, to confront the issue head on with a talk entitled Why Creationism is Wrong. The award-winning geneticist and author Steve Jones will deliver the lecture and challenge creationists, Christian and Islamic, to argue their case rationally at the society's event in April.

Why is it that creationists quote holy books and distribute leaflets while evolutionists perform research and publish journal articles?

Creationists perform research and publish journal articles, and evolutionists distribute leaflets and quote "holy" books (which Darwin has become for them).

Quote
And this isn't just because science has universally adopted the theory of evolution,

Which it (unless science=the establishment) hasn't, to the horror of many.

Quote
the same was true when evolution was a new theory and a minority opinion over a century ago.

Wrong again, particularly as Social Darwinism became the rage.

Quote
f someone wants to challenge a prevailing scientific theory, that's fine...heck, I strongly object to the dogmatization of string theory amongst certain schools of theoretical physics. But this is science, not politics...present research, don't start a PR campaign.

Yes, scientists are sooooo dispassionate. Roll Eyes

We've discussed all this before:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,15104.0.html
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« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2010, 09:50:56 AM »

A growing number of science students on British campuses and in sixth form colleges are challenging the theory of evolution and arguing that Darwin was wrong.
Hey, great. I'm glad to see that we're moving forward in our understanding of biological processes. What's the new evidence they've presented?

they quote sayings from the Bible or Qur'an as scientific fact
Oh, I see. Nevermind.

Just addicted to fallacies I see.
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« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2010, 02:30:39 PM »

Yes, scientists are sooooo dispassionate. Roll Eyes
Not like you are [dispassionate]. Wink
« Last Edit: February 13, 2010, 03:07:54 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
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« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2010, 03:40:17 PM »

Yes, scientists are sooooo dispassionate. Roll Eyes
Not like you are [dispassionate]. Wink
When did I so claim? Huh
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« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2010, 03:41:45 PM »

Yes, scientists are sooooo dispassionate. Roll Eyes
Not like you are [dispassionate]. Wink
When did I so claim? Huh
Does it matter?
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« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2010, 03:48:45 PM »

Yes, scientists are sooooo dispassionate. Roll Eyes
Not like you are [dispassionate]. Wink
When did I so claim? Huh
Does it matter?
Faulting me for something I never claimed, yes.
Faulting scientists for not practicing what they preach, no.
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
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« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2010, 04:10:40 PM »

Yes, scientists are sooooo dispassionate. Roll Eyes
Not like you are [dispassionate]. Wink
When did I so claim? Huh
Does it matter?
Faulting me for something I never claimed, yes.
Isa, no one can fault you for being dispassionate, since dispassion appears very clearly to NOT be one of your personality traits, regardless of what you say about yourself.  In the end, then, your cry about scientists and dispassion looks like just another case of "Pot, meet kettle." Cheesy
« Last Edit: February 13, 2010, 04:12:04 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
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« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2010, 05:46:07 PM »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/feb/21/religion.highereducation


A growing number of science students on British campuses and in sixth form colleges are challenging the theory of evolution and arguing that Darwin was wrong. Some are being failed in university exams because they quote sayings from the Bible or Qur'an as scientific fact and at one sixth form college in London most biology students are now thought to be creationists.
Earlier this month Muslim medical students in London distributed leaflets that dismissed Darwin's theories as false. Evangelical Christian students are also increasingly vocal in challenging the notion of evolution.

In the United States there is growing pressure to teach creationism or "intelligent design" in science classes, despite legal rulings against it. Now similar trends in this country have prompted the Royal Society, Britain's leading scientific academy, to confront the issue head on with a talk entitled Why Creationism is Wrong. The award-winning geneticist and author Steve Jones will deliver the lecture and challenge creationists, Christian and Islamic, to argue their case rationally at the society's event in April.

Why is it that creationists quote holy books and distribute leaflets while evolutionists perform research and publish journal articles?

Creationists perform research and publish journal articles, and evolutionists distribute leaflets and quote "holy" books (which Darwin has become for them).

The Origin of Species is hardly a 'holy book', it's a landmark work but the theory has grown and been formalized since then, evolution is a very different subject today. That's how science doesn't work, if your understanding of the world today could possibly be the same as had you lived a hundred years ago...there's a HUGE problem, just so much we didn't know and understand then.

Quote
Quote
And this isn't just because science has universally adopted the theory of evolution,

Which it (unless science=the establishment) hasn't, to the horror of many.

Keep telling yourself that, one day you may even believe it.

Quote
Quote
the same was true when evolution was a new theory and a minority opinion over a century ago.

Wrong again, particularly as Social Darwinism became the rage.

A social theory derived from a scientific theory is a world away from a scientific theory derived from a social theory. Our understanding of society should be based on our scientific knowledge, not the other way around.

Quote
Quote
f someone wants to challenge a prevailing scientific theory, that's fine...heck, I strongly object to the dogmatization of string theory amongst certain schools of theoretical physics. But this is science, not politics...present research, don't start a PR campaign.

Yes, scientists are sooooo dispassionate. Roll Eyes

Maybe not all scientists, they're people after all, but science is.
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« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2010, 06:43:04 PM »

Yes, scientists are sooooo dispassionate. Roll Eyes
Not like you are [dispassionate]. Wink
When did I so claim? Huh
Does it matter?
Faulting me for something I never claimed, yes.
Isa, no one can fault you for being dispassionate, since dispassion appears very clearly to NOT be one of your personality traits, regardless of what you say about yourself.  In the end, then, your cry about scientists and dispassion looks like just another case of "Pot, meet kettle." Cheesy
No, they claim that they are engaged in the dispassionate pursuit of truth. I've spent plenty of time in Academia to know that they are either trying to deceive the general public or themselves on that.  I'd have to claim to be white first before your pot/kettle analogy would come into play.

Oh, I think I've mentioned it before: I'd rather be ashes than dust.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2010, 06:43:51 PM by ialmisry » Logged

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« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2010, 07:02:08 PM »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/feb/21/religion.highereducation


A growing number of science students on British campuses and in sixth form colleges are challenging the theory of evolution and arguing that Darwin was wrong. Some are being failed in university exams because they quote sayings from the Bible or Qur'an as scientific fact and at one sixth form college in London most biology students are now thought to be creationists.
Earlier this month Muslim medical students in London distributed leaflets that dismissed Darwin's theories as false. Evangelical Christian students are also increasingly vocal in challenging the notion of evolution.

In the United States there is growing pressure to teach creationism or "intelligent design" in science classes, despite legal rulings against it. Now similar trends in this country have prompted the Royal Society, Britain's leading scientific academy, to confront the issue head on with a talk entitled Why Creationism is Wrong. The award-winning geneticist and author Steve Jones will deliver the lecture and challenge creationists, Christian and Islamic, to argue their case rationally at the society's event in April.


This is a shame. I'm sorry to see creationist fundamentalism affect Britain like this. It might be a flash in the pan, but no doubt I'm being overly optimistic. Go Royal Society! I hope it's not too late to turn the tide.

Creationism has always been in Britain. Have you ever heard of the late great Dr. A.E. Wilder-Smith(Young Earth Creationist)?

In modern times, I have noticed a good number of theistic evolutionists in great Britain as well. Many of whom are academics at colleges and universities.

Men like Dr. Alister Mcgrath, Dr. John Lennox, and many others.


http://blip.tv/file/get/Apologetics-ConversationBetweenRichardDawkinsAndJohnLennox395.mp3(Conversation between Richard Dawkins and John Lennox)

ICXC NIKA

Maybe the Brits can come up with their version of "Expelled."

What a horrible thought!
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« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2010, 07:05:46 PM »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/feb/21/religion.highereducation


A growing number of science students on British campuses and in sixth form colleges are challenging the theory of evolution and arguing that Darwin was wrong. Some are being failed in university exams because they quote sayings from the Bible or Qur'an as scientific fact and at one sixth form college in London most biology students are now thought to be creationists.
Earlier this month Muslim medical students in London distributed leaflets that dismissed Darwin's theories as false. Evangelical Christian students are also increasingly vocal in challenging the notion of evolution.

In the United States there is growing pressure to teach creationism or "intelligent design" in science classes, despite legal rulings against it. Now similar trends in this country have prompted the Royal Society, Britain's leading scientific academy, to confront the issue head on with a talk entitled Why Creationism is Wrong. The award-winning geneticist and author Steve Jones will deliver the lecture and challenge creationists, Christian and Islamic, to argue their case rationally at the society's event in April.

Why is it that creationists quote holy books and distribute leaflets while evolutionists perform research and publish journal articles?

Creationists perform research and publish journal articles, and evolutionists distribute leaflets and quote "holy" books (which Darwin has become for them).

The Origin of Species is hardly a 'holy book',

This claim is worth a chuckle, though.
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I believe in One God, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
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« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2010, 09:26:59 PM »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/feb/21/religion.highereducation


A growing number of science students on British campuses and in sixth form colleges are challenging the theory of evolution and arguing that Darwin was wrong. Some are being failed in university exams because they quote sayings from the Bible or Qur'an as scientific fact and at one sixth form college in London most biology students are now thought to be creationists.
Earlier this month Muslim medical students in London distributed leaflets that dismissed Darwin's theories as false. Evangelical Christian students are also increasingly vocal in challenging the notion of evolution.

In the United States there is growing pressure to teach creationism or "intelligent design" in science classes, despite legal rulings against it. Now similar trends in this country have prompted the Royal Society, Britain's leading scientific academy, to confront the issue head on with a talk entitled Why Creationism is Wrong. The award-winning geneticist and author Steve Jones will deliver the lecture and challenge creationists, Christian and Islamic, to argue their case rationally at the society's event in April.

Why is it that creationists quote holy books and distribute leaflets while evolutionists perform research and publish journal articles?

Creationists perform research and publish journal articles, and evolutionists distribute leaflets and quote "holy" books (which Darwin has become for them).

The Origin of Species is hardly a 'holy book',

This claim is worth a chuckle, though.

On the other evolution thread, someone actually asserted that Darwin was inspired by the Holy Spirit.
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« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2010, 01:05:04 AM »

It is good to see that there are still creationists out there! I hope I will be able to find a way to see the event.
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« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2010, 01:27:07 AM »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/feb/21/religion.highereducation


A growing number of science students on British campuses and in sixth form colleges are challenging the theory of evolution and arguing that Darwin was wrong. Some are being failed in university exams because they quote sayings from the Bible or Qur'an as scientific fact and at one sixth form college in London most biology students are now thought to be creationists.
Earlier this month Muslim medical students in London distributed leaflets that dismissed Darwin's theories as false. Evangelical Christian students are also increasingly vocal in challenging the notion of evolution.

In the United States there is growing pressure to teach creationism or "intelligent design" in science classes, despite legal rulings against it. Now similar trends in this country have prompted the Royal Society, Britain's leading scientific academy, to confront the issue head on with a talk entitled Why Creationism is Wrong. The award-winning geneticist and author Steve Jones will deliver the lecture and challenge creationists, Christian and Islamic, to argue their case rationally at the society's event in April.

Why is it that creationists quote holy books and distribute leaflets while evolutionists perform research and publish journal articles?

Creationists perform research and publish journal articles, and evolutionists distribute leaflets and quote "holy" books (which Darwin has become for them).

The Origin of Species is hardly a 'holy book',

This claim is worth a chuckle, though.

On the other evolution thread, someone actually asserted that Darwin was inspired by the Holy Spirit.
What problem do you have with that statement?
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« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2010, 02:18:28 AM »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/feb/21/religion.highereducation


A growing number of science students on British campuses and in sixth form colleges are challenging the theory of evolution and arguing that Darwin was wrong. Some are being failed in university exams because they quote sayings from the Bible or Qur'an as scientific fact and at one sixth form college in London most biology students are now thought to be creationists.
Earlier this month Muslim medical students in London distributed leaflets that dismissed Darwin's theories as false. Evangelical Christian students are also increasingly vocal in challenging the notion of evolution.

In the United States there is growing pressure to teach creationism or "intelligent design" in science classes, despite legal rulings against it. Now similar trends in this country have prompted the Royal Society, Britain's leading scientific academy, to confront the issue head on with a talk entitled Why Creationism is Wrong. The award-winning geneticist and author Steve Jones will deliver the lecture and challenge creationists, Christian and Islamic, to argue their case rationally at the society's event in April.

Why is it that creationists quote holy books and distribute leaflets while evolutionists perform research and publish journal articles?

Creationists perform research and publish journal articles, and evolutionists distribute leaflets and quote "holy" books (which Darwin has become for them).

The Origin of Species is hardly a 'holy book',

This claim is worth a chuckle, though.

On the other evolution thread, someone actually asserted that Darwin was inspired by the Holy Spirit.
What problem do you have with that statement?

For one thing, it's demeaning towards one of the greatest scientists of the 19th century. Darwin came to the realizations he did by his own work and intelligence. Trying to fit him in the same mold as people as Moses, Jesus, etc. is just insulting.
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« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2010, 02:29:54 AM »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/feb/21/religion.highereducation


A growing number of science students on British campuses and in sixth form colleges are challenging the theory of evolution and arguing that Darwin was wrong. Some are being failed in university exams because they quote sayings from the Bible or Qur'an as scientific fact and at one sixth form college in London most biology students are now thought to be creationists.
Earlier this month Muslim medical students in London distributed leaflets that dismissed Darwin's theories as false. Evangelical Christian students are also increasingly vocal in challenging the notion of evolution.

In the United States there is growing pressure to teach creationism or "intelligent design" in science classes, despite legal rulings against it. Now similar trends in this country have prompted the Royal Society, Britain's leading scientific academy, to confront the issue head on with a talk entitled Why Creationism is Wrong. The award-winning geneticist and author Steve Jones will deliver the lecture and challenge creationists, Christian and Islamic, to argue their case rationally at the society's event in April.

Why is it that creationists quote holy books and distribute leaflets while evolutionists perform research and publish journal articles?

Creationists perform research and publish journal articles, and evolutionists distribute leaflets and quote "holy" books (which Darwin has become for them).

The Origin of Species is hardly a 'holy book',

This claim is worth a chuckle, though.

On the other evolution thread, someone actually asserted that Darwin was inspired by the Holy Spirit.
What problem do you have with that statement?

For one thing, it's demeaning towards one of the greatest scientists of the 19th century. Darwin came to the realizations he did by his own work and intelligence. Trying to fit him in the same mold as people as Moses, Jesus, etc. is just insulting.
I did ask Iconodule for what I anticipated would be a creationist response to Heorhij's statement on the other thread, but I'll grant that you make a very good point from a totally different point of view I didn't expect. Wink
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« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2010, 02:32:32 AM »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/feb/21/religion.highereducation


A growing number of science students on British campuses and in sixth form colleges are challenging the theory of evolution and arguing that Darwin was wrong. Some are being failed in university exams because they quote sayings from the Bible or Qur'an as scientific fact and at one sixth form college in London most biology students are now thought to be creationists.
Earlier this month Muslim medical students in London distributed leaflets that dismissed Darwin's theories as false. Evangelical Christian students are also increasingly vocal in challenging the notion of evolution.

In the United States there is growing pressure to teach creationism or "intelligent design" in science classes, despite legal rulings against it. Now similar trends in this country have prompted the Royal Society, Britain's leading scientific academy, to confront the issue head on with a talk entitled Why Creationism is Wrong. The award-winning geneticist and author Steve Jones will deliver the lecture and challenge creationists, Christian and Islamic, to argue their case rationally at the society's event in April.

Why is it that creationists quote holy books and distribute leaflets while evolutionists perform research and publish journal articles?

Creationists perform research and publish journal articles, and evolutionists distribute leaflets and quote "holy" books (which Darwin has become for them).

The Origin of Species is hardly a 'holy book',

This claim is worth a chuckle, though.

On the other evolution thread, someone actually asserted that Darwin was inspired by the Holy Spirit.
What problem do you have with that statement?
I haven't read too much of Mr. Darwin's materials, so take this with a grain of salt; heck, take it with a whole salt shaker, but I don't believe he was inspired by the Holy Spirit.  For example, it seems counter-intuitive that the Holy Spirit would lead Mr. Darwin away from Holy Orthodoxy and instead, lead him to almost completely abandon the church in favor of his own understanding of the origin of species.  Certainly, Mr. Darwin's theories didn't lead him towards the Church.  If anything, it lead him to believe that the Church was/is wrong in it's understanding of many aspects and, ergo, could not have been inspired by the Holy Spirit.  Just my opinion...  Undecided

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« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2010, 03:37:41 AM »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/feb/21/religion.highereducation


A growing number of science students on British campuses and in sixth form colleges are challenging the theory of evolution and arguing that Darwin was wrong. Some are being failed in university exams because they quote sayings from the Bible or Qur'an as scientific fact and at one sixth form college in London most biology students are now thought to be creationists.
Earlier this month Muslim medical students in London distributed leaflets that dismissed Darwin's theories as false. Evangelical Christian students are also increasingly vocal in challenging the notion of evolution.

In the United States there is growing pressure to teach creationism or "intelligent design" in science classes, despite legal rulings against it. Now similar trends in this country have prompted the Royal Society, Britain's leading scientific academy, to confront the issue head on with a talk entitled Why Creationism is Wrong. The award-winning geneticist and author Steve Jones will deliver the lecture and challenge creationists, Christian and Islamic, to argue their case rationally at the society's event in April.

Why is it that creationists quote holy books and distribute leaflets while evolutionists perform research and publish journal articles?

Creationists perform research and publish journal articles, and evolutionists distribute leaflets and quote "holy" books (which Darwin has become for them).

The Origin of Species is hardly a 'holy book',

This claim is worth a chuckle, though.

On the other evolution thread, someone actually asserted that Darwin was inspired by the Holy Spirit.
What problem do you have with that statement?

For one thing, it's demeaning towards one of the greatest scientists of the 19th century. Darwin came to the realizations he did by his own work and intelligence. Trying to fit him in the same mold as people as Moses, Jesus, etc. is just insulting.
Yes, give Dr. Darwin credit for his own fall.
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If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
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                           and both come out of your mouth
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« Reply #30 on: February 14, 2010, 03:56:43 AM »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/feb/21/religion.highereducation


A growing number of science students on British campuses and in sixth form colleges are challenging the theory of evolution and arguing that Darwin was wrong. Some are being failed in university exams because they quote sayings from the Bible or Qur'an as scientific fact and at one sixth form college in London most biology students are now thought to be creationists.
Earlier this month Muslim medical students in London distributed leaflets that dismissed Darwin's theories as false. Evangelical Christian students are also increasingly vocal in challenging the notion of evolution.

In the United States there is growing pressure to teach creationism or "intelligent design" in science classes, despite legal rulings against it. Now similar trends in this country have prompted the Royal Society, Britain's leading scientific academy, to confront the issue head on with a talk entitled Why Creationism is Wrong. The award-winning geneticist and author Steve Jones will deliver the lecture and challenge creationists, Christian and Islamic, to argue their case rationally at the society's event in April.

Why is it that creationists quote holy books and distribute leaflets while evolutionists perform research and publish journal articles?

Creationists perform research and publish journal articles, and evolutionists distribute leaflets and quote "holy" books (which Darwin has become for them).

The Origin of Species is hardly a 'holy book',

This claim is worth a chuckle, though.

On the other evolution thread, someone actually asserted that Darwin was inspired by the Holy Spirit.
What problem do you have with that statement?

For one thing, it's demeaning towards one of the greatest scientists of the 19th century. Darwin came to the realizations he did by his own work and intelligence. Trying to fit him in the same mold as people as Moses, Jesus, etc. is just insulting.
Yes, give Dr. Darwin credit for his own fall.

How do you know that he had *fallen*, any further than any other man? Do you know his every thought concerning God?
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Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
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« Reply #31 on: February 14, 2010, 05:01:27 AM »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/feb/21/religion.highereducation


A growing number of science students on British campuses and in sixth form colleges are challenging the theory of evolution and arguing that Darwin was wrong. Some are being failed in university exams because they quote sayings from the Bible or Qur'an as scientific fact and at one sixth form college in London most biology students are now thought to be creationists.
Earlier this month Muslim medical students in London distributed leaflets that dismissed Darwin's theories as false. Evangelical Christian students are also increasingly vocal in challenging the notion of evolution.

In the United States there is growing pressure to teach creationism or "intelligent design" in science classes, despite legal rulings against it. Now similar trends in this country have prompted the Royal Society, Britain's leading scientific academy, to confront the issue head on with a talk entitled Why Creationism is Wrong. The award-winning geneticist and author Steve Jones will deliver the lecture and challenge creationists, Christian and Islamic, to argue their case rationally at the society's event in April.

Why is it that creationists quote holy books and distribute leaflets while evolutionists perform research and publish journal articles?

Creationists perform research and publish journal articles, and evolutionists distribute leaflets and quote "holy" books (which Darwin has become for them).

The Origin of Species is hardly a 'holy book',

This claim is worth a chuckle, though.

On the other evolution thread, someone actually asserted that Darwin was inspired by the Holy Spirit.
What problem do you have with that statement?

For one thing, it's demeaning towards one of the greatest scientists of the 19th century. Darwin came to the realizations he did by his own work and intelligence. Trying to fit him in the same mold as people as Moses, Jesus, etc. is just insulting.
Yes, give Dr. Darwin credit for his own fall.

I only seek to give him credit for the quality of his scientific research and observations; I'll leave it to people like you to judge him on spiritual matters...for those things don't really concern me.
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« Reply #32 on: February 14, 2010, 09:28:00 AM »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/feb/21/religion.highereducation


A growing number of science students on British campuses and in sixth form colleges are challenging the theory of evolution and arguing that Darwin was wrong. Some are being failed in university exams because they quote sayings from the Bible or Qur'an as scientific fact and at one sixth form college in London most biology students are now thought to be creationists.
Earlier this month Muslim medical students in London distributed leaflets that dismissed Darwin's theories as false. Evangelical Christian students are also increasingly vocal in challenging the notion of evolution.

In the United States there is growing pressure to teach creationism or "intelligent design" in science classes, despite legal rulings against it. Now similar trends in this country have prompted the Royal Society, Britain's leading scientific academy, to confront the issue head on with a talk entitled Why Creationism is Wrong. The award-winning geneticist and author Steve Jones will deliver the lecture and challenge creationists, Christian and Islamic, to argue their case rationally at the society's event in April.

Why is it that creationists quote holy books and distribute leaflets while evolutionists perform research and publish journal articles?

Creationists perform research and publish journal articles, and evolutionists distribute leaflets and quote "holy" books (which Darwin has become for them).

The Origin of Species is hardly a 'holy book',

This claim is worth a chuckle, though.

On the other evolution thread, someone actually asserted that Darwin was inspired by the Holy Spirit.
What problem do you have with that statement?

For one thing, it's demeaning towards one of the greatest scientists of the 19th century. Darwin came to the realizations he did by his own work and intelligence. Trying to fit him in the same mold as people as Moses, Jesus, etc. is just insulting.
Yes, give Dr. Darwin credit for his own fall.

I only seek to give him credit for the quality of his scientific research and observations; I'll leave it to people like you to judge him on spiritual matters...for those things don't really concern me.
They do, but that's the topic of another thread...

Who said that I was judging him on spiritual matters?
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If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
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                           and both come out of your mouth
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« Reply #33 on: February 14, 2010, 03:49:16 PM »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/feb/21/religion.highereducation


A growing number of science students on British campuses and in sixth form colleges are challenging the theory of evolution and arguing that Darwin was wrong. Some are being failed in university exams because they quote sayings from the Bible or Qur'an as scientific fact and at one sixth form college in London most biology students are now thought to be creationists.
Earlier this month Muslim medical students in London distributed leaflets that dismissed Darwin's theories as false. Evangelical Christian students are also increasingly vocal in challenging the notion of evolution.

In the United States there is growing pressure to teach creationism or "intelligent design" in science classes, despite legal rulings against it. Now similar trends in this country have prompted the Royal Society, Britain's leading scientific academy, to confront the issue head on with a talk entitled Why Creationism is Wrong. The award-winning geneticist and author Steve Jones will deliver the lecture and challenge creationists, Christian and Islamic, to argue their case rationally at the society's event in April.

Why is it that creationists quote holy books and distribute leaflets while evolutionists perform research and publish journal articles?

Creationists perform research and publish journal articles, and evolutionists distribute leaflets and quote "holy" books (which Darwin has become for them).

The Origin of Species is hardly a 'holy book',

This claim is worth a chuckle, though.

On the other evolution thread, someone actually asserted that Darwin was inspired by the Holy Spirit.
What problem do you have with that statement?

It would be better to ask, how do you justify such a statement? The man was an agnostic and drifted further away from Christianity throughout his life. In his methodology, he was a materialist. Heorhij's argument was, "what Darwin said was true; the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth; therefore, Darwin was inspired by the Holy Spirit." I can't understand why such an argument is not self-evidently faulty to you. It is not even a question of whether Darwin's theory is true or not; simply saying things which are true does not evince divine inspiration.
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« Reply #34 on: February 14, 2010, 06:17:50 PM »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/feb/21/religion.highereducation


A growing number of science students on British campuses and in sixth form colleges are challenging the theory of evolution and arguing that Darwin was wrong. Some are being failed in university exams because they quote sayings from the Bible or Qur'an as scientific fact and at one sixth form college in London most biology students are now thought to be creationists.
Earlier this month Muslim medical students in London distributed leaflets that dismissed Darwin's theories as false. Evangelical Christian students are also increasingly vocal in challenging the notion of evolution.

In the United States there is growing pressure to teach creationism or "intelligent design" in science classes, despite legal rulings against it. Now similar trends in this country have prompted the Royal Society, Britain's leading scientific academy, to confront the issue head on with a talk entitled Why Creationism is Wrong. The award-winning geneticist and author Steve Jones will deliver the lecture and challenge creationists, Christian and Islamic, to argue their case rationally at the society's event in April.

Why is it that creationists quote holy books and distribute leaflets while evolutionists perform research and publish journal articles?

Creationists perform research and publish journal articles, and evolutionists distribute leaflets and quote "holy" books (which Darwin has become for them).

The Origin of Species is hardly a 'holy book',

This claim is worth a chuckle, though.

On the other evolution thread, someone actually asserted that Darwin was inspired by the Holy Spirit.
What problem do you have with that statement?

It would be better to ask, how do you justify such a statement?
Not when I'm asking you the question. Wink

The man was an agnostic and drifted further away from Christianity throughout his life. In his methodology, he was a materialist. Heorhij's argument was, "what Darwin said was true; the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth; therefore, Darwin was inspired by the Holy Spirit." I can't understand why such an argument is not self-evidently faulty to you.
You assume that because I ask you the question I did that I necessarily agree with Heorhij's reasoning?  That's an assumption many will make automatically when they see such a question, but the assumption is often not correct.  In this case, you can't know for certain, and you've most likely assumed wrong, since I didn't explain to you why I asked you the question.  I personally don't have an opinion one way or the other regarding Heorhij's claim that Darwin was inspired by the Holy Spirit--at the least, I would call his statement rather excessive in its praise or the man--though I understand the perspective that inspired the statement.  I merely wanted to know why you object to it.

It is not even a question of whether Darwin's theory is true or not; simply saying things which are true does not evince divine inspiration.
True enough. Wink
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« Reply #35 on: February 16, 2010, 03:30:30 PM »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/feb/21/religion.highereducation


A growing number of science students on British campuses and in sixth form colleges are challenging the theory of evolution and arguing that Darwin was wrong. Some are being failed in university exams because they quote sayings from the Bible or Qur'an as scientific fact and at one sixth form college in London most biology students are now thought to be creationists.
Earlier this month Muslim medical students in London distributed leaflets that dismissed Darwin's theories as false. Evangelical Christian students are also increasingly vocal in challenging the notion of evolution.

In the United States there is growing pressure to teach creationism or "intelligent design" in science classes, despite legal rulings against it. Now similar trends in this country have prompted the Royal Society, Britain's leading scientific academy, to confront the issue head on with a talk entitled Why Creationism is Wrong. The award-winning geneticist and author Steve Jones will deliver the lecture and challenge creationists, Christian and Islamic, to argue their case rationally at the society's event in April.

Why is it that creationists quote holy books and distribute leaflets while evolutionists perform research and publish journal articles?

Creationists perform research and publish journal articles, and evolutionists distribute leaflets and quote "holy" books (which Darwin has become for them).

The Origin of Species is hardly a 'holy book',

This claim is worth a chuckle, though.

On the other evolution thread, someone actually asserted that Darwin was inspired by the Holy Spirit.
What problem do you have with that statement?

It would be better to ask, how do you justify such a statement?
Not when I'm asking you the question. Wink

The man was an agnostic and drifted further away from Christianity throughout his life. In his methodology, he was a materialist. Heorhij's argument was, "what Darwin said was true; the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth; therefore, Darwin was inspired by the Holy Spirit." I can't understand why such an argument is not self-evidently faulty to you.
You assume that because I ask you the question I did that I necessarily agree with Heorhij's reasoning?  That's an assumption many will make automatically when they see such a question, but the assumption is often not correct.  In this case, you can't know for certain, and you've most likely assumed wrong, since I didn't explain to you why I asked you the question.  I personally don't have an opinion one way or the other regarding Heorhij's claim that Darwin was inspired by the Holy Spirit--at the least, I would call his statement rather excessive in its praise or the man--though I understand the perspective that inspired the statement.  I merely wanted to know why you object to it.

You're right, I wrongly assumed you held this opinion. Forgive me.
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